Lifters and ElectroMagnetic "Anomalies"

For a discussion of the science of Townsend Brown, his experiments and his ideas.
Trickfox
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Post by Trickfox »

Chris (Andrew)

Your experience with all those people who write about Brown and his work must have kept you busy for a few years right?
Have you ever met the fella Paul E. Potter who speaks of Thomas Townsend Brown technology as "badly explained by Brown"( Potter who has no contact address on his website which was developed by someone in Hampshire NTL United Kindom)
I just thought I'd comment on the existence of the Alien Technology Back Engineered webpage:
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/ufophysics/index.html
It has lots of pretty pictures and not a whole lot of math in it. :roll: Do you think Paul knows very much of anything about Brown's TRUE work on electrohydrodynamics?
:wink:
The psychopropulsier (as pointed out in the book The Good-bye man by Linda Brown and Jan Lofton) is a Quantum entanglement project under development using Quantum Junctions. Join us at http://www.Peeteelab.com
Chris Knight
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Brown and Public Information

Post by Chris Knight »

Trickfox,

I was telling someone yesterday, that when I began the website, Brown was a virtual unknown. Just about everything on the web can be traced back to the site as an original source. Since I put my "imprint" on every document on the site, I'll sometimes check the source codes on other site's documents and can see where they came from. That said, most of the unique documents (non-published) documents source from the Brown family through the site. I think that Patrick Bailey over with Padrak was the only one out there at that time.

The answer to your question is that I haven't met Mr. Potter. You'll note that Brown did not generally publish. Generally speaking, in the public sector there are patents, which are meant to show a basic description of a concept, documents such as the Winterhaven and Xerxes, which are also generalized for the audience intended, and published articles by others, such as Mason Rose, William Moore, reporters, etc.). So aside from his general patent and document papers, a more in-depth description and interpretation was left to others who were really writing for a common denominator so the average Joe reader could understand. Brown couldn't go into any depth in these types of situation.

As a result, everything the vast, vast majority of people understand about Brown is basically heresay, and written at a 13th-grade education at that. Most people who "know all about Brown" still only know what they've read. That's why I'm so pleased that our Paul is sticking to the facts. This book will dispense with many of the misconceptions surrounding Brown. I am really excited about it !!

Mr. Potter has upgraded his site quite a bit since I was last there. It's always a pleasure to go back and read over Brown's patents. There's a lot of important information in them if you know what to look for.

Andrew
Last edited by Chris Knight on Wed Oct 17, 2007 3:45 am, edited 1 time in total.
Victoria Steele
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imprint on material

Post by Victoria Steele »

Andrew,

Sunday morning and all seems quiet on the front. Which means, I hope, that Paul is working hard on our next Chapter!

So, are you going to be in Vegas at the Conference in November?

How many people out there talking (and spouting off) about Townsend Brown realize that most of their material has come directly or indirectly from you? I have to say, I have noticed things like that in the past. I notice the way people phrase things, and then when I see the same phrase, with a differenty name on it .... I always get suspicious.

Everybody knows that I have been challenging Bill Moore and Gerry Vassilatos to join us here. They have both presented themselves as big authorities about Dr. Brown and yet NEITHER ONE has bothered to even comment. I don't know why exactly that bothers me, but it does.

Maybe its because its sort of like a rumor in a high school. Talk, talk, talk , taken as truth by others, casts a shadow over someones name , yet, when thosed gossipers are "called out" they dissolve into the shadows and in this case I got personally insulted because I had bought into some of those stories, was misled ... and now ... I want to know WHY.

Very simple . WHY did Vassilatos present his information as if he had gotten it personally from either the man ... or those close? Did he think that there would be no one out there who would know the truth? The same for Moore. How much actual contact did he have with the Browns?

I expect, with your close association with the Brown family you have sensed some of this frustration and in fact, known it yourself. I have wondered what it was like for you to see your own words regurgitated to you in the form of someone elses research. Its an insult and I am pleased to see that being challenged now with your work and Pauls.

Its the silence that puzzles me. After all this time you would think that if they were REALLY researchers Moore and Vassilatos would be excited about this new material seeing the light of day. But no, so far ... nothing but silence. THATS what interests me. Victoria
Chris Knight
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Other Brown Authorities

Post by Chris Knight »

Victoria,

I will absolutely be there !! Paul is the historian, and this is his time. I am more interested in the technology, and right now i want to support Paul as much as possible.

Now, I can't say much about other "authorities," because I have some acquaintance-friends who are, and I don't want to offend, but even they aren't showing their faces either. I hate to say it, but I am just kind of waiting to see what of Paul's ends up in the next "booklet" or lecture. I actually get a big kick out of hearing things I've said repeated through someone else, but no one has ever claimed actual ownership of anything I've said or presented - that I would have to shoot down immediately. I have my working group, and I tend to keep my own thoughts. It would be nice, though, if there was some truth to the enormous black budgets and laboratory facilities I am supposed to have. Ah, well...

In any case, the website only contains information primarily available to the general public through various channels, and I keep fairly good tabs on what is available, so I tend to be aware when a document suddenly appears on my radar. That is why the Gavin Dingley ParaSETI reference is of interest to me. Anything on there I assume will be reused somewhere else.

What's funny to me is that what Paul is writing will blow everyone totally away !! They probably realize that there is no way they can possibly compete or add anything to what he is writing. They realize that he is obviously the main conduit of information, and if they try to add anything to his writing, the'll look like idiots. I'm looking forward to whatever happens !!

Andrew
Last edited by Chris Knight on Tue Sep 19, 2006 6:10 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Mark Culpepper
The Dean
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November in Vegas

Post by Mark Culpepper »

Andrew,

Already making plans. November in Vegas. Wouldn't miss it for the world.

The thing that I am going to most enjoy is the experience of watching a strong fresh breeze blow through all those cobwebs of repeated old stories.

I am not the one that is the most interested in Crashed UFOs. That used to be my brothers big enthusiasm. He kept up on anything "Flying Saucer" when we were kids. Knew the difference between an Adamski "scout ship" and the "Cigar shaped saucers", foo fighters ... etc ... and he read everything he could get his hands on.

The thing that finally discouraged him was that there always seemed to be the same twist on everything. Nothing conclusive, no solid anything. YEARS AND YEARS AND YEARS OF THE SAME OLD STORIES.

I could tell that he WANTED his various investigative groups to be succesful but of course STILL not much has been brought forward.

And this makes no sense to me. Now, especially when you have organizations out there like the National Reconnaisance Office, controlling satellites that, as my brother rather crudely has said ... "can spot a pimple on a gnats ass".

WHY do we look toward these amateur investigation groups to tell us all about "UFOs"? They are not the ones with all of the sophisticated surveillance equipment.

Well, the answer I guess is .... the guys with all the good equipment .... are not saying anything. Thats pretty darned obvious. And of course you have to ask yourself, once you reach that conclusion, the question that needs to be asked and hopefully answered is " Well, if you KNOW ... why haven't you told us what you know?

Until then we end up listening to the same old stories and the same rehashed material ... Until something fresh comes along .... I can't wait either. Mark
Trickfox
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Las Vegas in November (maybe)

Post by Trickfox »

Chris Knight wrote: Now, I can't say much about other "authorities," because I have some acquaintance-friends who are, and I don't want to offend, but even they aren't showing their faces either. Andrew
You know Andrew,

I know exactly how your aquaintance-friends feel, but you know something funny. The last time I went to A UFO convention, some idiot was "irradiating" his victims with X-ray emissions using his home made "scalar wave curing device" and charging ten bucks to poison his victims. Those gatherings are pretty harmless during the speeches but it's the exhibits, bogus technology, and comercial scamming before, during, and afterwards that gets a bit dangerous.

As for the "un-noticed fashion" that certain agencies use for keeping an eye on the UFO public flaps, well that last convention I went to was at the Los Angeles trade convention building.

Oh,....and it just so happens that the "society of old crows" was having one of their own conventions right next door on the same date as the UFO convention.

I had a ball watching the two groups bump into each other walking in and out of the convention. I even ran into William Scott of "Aviation Weekly", whom I had met at JPL with Will Stackhouse in the early 90s.

When I asked him which meeting he was here to attend he just laughed real hard and did not answer.

Gee..... those guys are good!
*************begin locality********************************
Will I be there in November?

I will try my very best to get to Las Vegas to see Paul give his speech. I use to live there so I have a lot of friends who want to get together anyway, but I have to mention that I am not in control of my destiny this far away into the future. :cry:

Anything is possible, including the possibility that I will be much too busy on equally important endeavors. One thing is for sure, I'd like to go just to meet all of you there and a have a great meal at the "Rio" buffet. :lol:

Everyone here would probably enjoy the "Cirque du Soleil" show (a bunch of very creative people from my neck of the woods). :D

We could all meet at the "Area 51 lounge" and have a drink, then pop on over to the "Luxor" and see the egyptian museum. 8)

you know I get chills just standing next to the "Luxor" it's probably the misty outdoor AC that does it. :wink:

I even know where there is an "undevelopped desert hot springs" for locals only, and it's located on the 93 (on the way to mailbox road).

Now all of this looks very good as an exciting "Vacation plan" don't it?
allmost as great as swimming with dolphins, or playing with kitty cats.
******************end locality**********************
Trickfox
The psychopropulsier (as pointed out in the book The Good-bye man by Linda Brown and Jan Lofton) is a Quantum entanglement project under development using Quantum Junctions. Join us at http://www.Peeteelab.com
Victoria Steele
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meet me in Margaritaville

Post by Victoria Steele »

Trickfox ... that and Jimmy Buffetts Margaritaville.... I can hear us now ... Conference, what conference?

I am looking forward too to meeting Paul in person and hearing what he has to say by that time. I feel strangely honored to be in this thing at what I consider the "first floor" .... So yes! We will celebrate ... Paul ... we know you and Ann will be there (?) I hope.... others will join us. We will take up our own conference room, I hope the organizers realize that!

"A lady dressed in purple started dancing all alone then she sauntered oh so gently to the vacant microphone. She sounded like shes someone and never missed a beat, by the time the number ended they were dancin' in the street. They died and gone to heaven that lively little crowd. Trombones and saxophone sent them through the clouds. It could have gone all night but the party had to stop ... when they blew the circuit breaker in the souvenir shop." (Buffett, of course)
Victoria
Ernest Fields
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Post by Ernest Fields »

I was reading the Nasa patent on the ACT. How can you obtain a patent on something that has already been patented? This patent was basic to his 1960 patent, although it wasn't called ACT, it was clearly described in several of the claims.
ErnieF
Elizabeth Helen Drake
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big mysteries, little mysteries

Post by Elizabeth Helen Drake »

Ernest,

Yes, thats what we all would like to know. One, just one of the little mysteries floating around us now. Anyone else out there have any suggestions on how NASA can get a patent on something previously patented? There HAS to be an answer to that. Any patent attorneys out there willing to give us the advantage of their expertise? Thanks Ernest. Elizabeth
Trickfox
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ACT, Patent (what's this)

Post by Trickfox »

Ernest Fields wrote:I was reading the Nasa patent on the ACT. How can you obtain a patent on something that has already been patented? This patent was basic to his 1960 patent, although it wasn't called ACT, it was clearly described in several of the claims.
Are you talking about this Ernest?
http://research.hq.nasa.gov/code_y/nra/ ... /main.html

I'll look through it and see If I can see where the TTB patent would apply.

Trickfox
The psychopropulsier (as pointed out in the book The Good-bye man by Linda Brown and Jan Lofton) is a Quantum entanglement project under development using Quantum Junctions. Join us at http://www.Peeteelab.com
Trickfox
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Re: ACT, Patent (what's this)

Post by Trickfox »

Trickfox wrote:
Ernest Fields wrote:I was reading the Nasa patent on the ACT. How can you obtain a patent on something that has already been patented? This patent was basic to his 1960 patent, although it wasn't called ACT, it was clearly described in several of the claims.
Are you talking about this Ernest?
http://research.hq.nasa.gov/code_y/nra/ ... /main.html

I'll look through it and see If I can see where the TTB patent would apply.

http://acts.grc.nasa.gov/news/index.shtml
I looked at this one too. can anyone explain what ACT is as far as NASA is concerned?
Trickfox
The psychopropulsier (as pointed out in the book The Good-bye man by Linda Brown and Jan Lofton) is a Quantum entanglement project under development using Quantum Junctions. Join us at http://www.Peeteelab.com
Chris Knight
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Asy

Post by Chris Knight »

Here is a corresponding link to the patent:

http://v3.espacenet.com/textdoc?IDX=US6 ... &DB=EPODOC

An asymmetric capacitive system with two oppositely charged (high voltage) electrodes to produce a thrust. That's very creative! That's...Hey! Wait a minute!

I'm not sure how they got this through either, but here's a funny quote from it:

"The present invention relates to methods and apparatus which use capacitors charged to high potentials for generating thrust and, more particularly, to an improved method and apparatus using a two dimensional, asymmetrical capacitor to which a high potential is applied."

OK, well that's good. Improvements are always good. Plus we know that:

"It is well established in the literature, that a force or thrust may be generated by a capacitor charged to a high potential. Although there are different theories regarding the basis for this phenomenon, there is no dispute that a force is generated by capacitors under such high voltages. However, the thrust generated by such high potential capacitors has been minimal and thus this phenomenon has had very limited practical utility."

I'm not sure I've read all of the well established literature regarding the force or thrust generated by a highly charged capacitor. Would that be literature partially established by Brown's work? I didn't realize they held him in such high esteem! Good there as well. So, now we move onto one of the "improvements."

"In accordance with a further aspect of the invention, an apparatus is provided for creating rotary motion, said apparatus comprising a rotor; a drive shaft driven by said rotor; and at least one capacitor module mounted on the rotor for imparting a thrust force to the rotor to cause rotation thereof, said capacitor module comprising a first conductive element having a cylindrical geometry; a second conductive element axially spaced from the first conductive element and having a geometry of smaller axial extent than the first conductive element; a dielectric element disposed between the first conductive element and the second conductive element so as to form the capacitor module; and at least one high voltage source, having first and second terminals connected respectively to the first and second conductive elements of the at least one capacitor module, for applying a high voltage to the conductive elements of sufficient value to the thrust force.

"Advantageously, the rotor may include at least two blades and a capacitor module is mounted on each of the blades."

Sooooo, you take one or more of these modules, and stick them on a propeller with at least two blades. On a propeller. A propeller. Brown was ahead of this technology when he was a teenager! Who is paying for these patents? Perhaps they should replace the shuttle solid state booster with a couple of propellers with these modules on them.

In any case, my only thought is that they are possibly trying to lay down a foundation to challenge any future claims to similar technology by ignoring Brown's work and treating the effect as universally accepted. The level is so rudimentary, and they are assuming that there is "no dispute" regarding Brown's work. I wonder what they're up to as well.

Andrew
Elizabeth Helen Drake
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One valid response

Post by Elizabeth Helen Drake »

Now there is one valid and excellent response. Thankyou Andrew. So ..... Anyone want to speak up for NASA? Elizabeth
Paul S.
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"Patent Reform"

Post by Paul S. »

Chris Knight wrote:In any case, my only thought is that they are possibly trying to lay down a foundation to challenge any future claims to similar technology by ignoring Brown's work and treating the effect as universally accepted. The level is so rudimentary, and they are assuming that there is "no dispute" regarding Brown's work. I wonder what they're up to as well.
Isn't this bizarre development? I can't think of any other word for it. "Universally accepted," but we're trying to patent it for the first time? Huh?

I have picked up -- but, regretfully, only peripherally -- that there is some debate going on right now about the viability of current patent law in light of a rapidly changing technological environment, and that there are some proposals being tossed around re: "patent reform."

Reading the word "reform" there, I wonder aloud, should patent reform -- like "immigration reform" -- include any kind of "amnesty" for those who have gone before? If so, here's what I propose:

If somebody files a patent (like the one cited here) that poprtends to be "new art," and that "new art" is actually discovered to be art that was discovered, patented and lost -- say, 50 or 60 years ago? -- then, rather than grant the new "inventors" a fresh new monopoly (via the new patent) on that art, that instead the new monopoly be bestowed upon the estate of the original (lost) inventor who actually made the discovery lo those many decades ago.

Only seems fair, doesn't it? I mean, there shouldn't be a statute of limitations on this kind of thing. If the "new art" is accepted as novel and valuable in the current era, when it was overlooked in a previous era, then it only seems fitting that the original discoverer get due credit in the current era.

Listen, if I wasn't a dreamer I wouldn't be here in the first place...

--PS
Paul Schatzkin
aka "The Perfesser"
"At some point we have to deal with the facts, not what we want to believe is true." -- Jack Bauer
Victoria Steele
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shoulders not faces

Post by Victoria Steele »

Andrew, Paul and everybody

Yeah, the idea is to step on the shoulders of other great men and women, NOT ON THEIR FACES ON YOUR WAY UP.

But hey folks, you act as is this isn't a very old story. Just ask about the history of many women researchers out there ... who have been "forgotten" because of the viewpoint and the agendas of the society around them.

Einsteins wife. ANYBODY REMEMBER HER? I didn't think so.

Ah, I am a romantic AND a dreamer ... so sometimes I am twice as lost!

So Paul, I ask again .... Wheres my Morgan fellow?

Victoria
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