US space policy

[amalie]

Oh well,

If trickfox does not want to bring this forward then I will .

Here is a link to my website

http://www.spacetreaty.com/

Another page will be added , it gives the background from DC July 2004 which I believed constituted what is known as
"materiels " or substance for diplomatic or policy initiative .

The links are not active yet . I have an appointment with my congressman in a few weeks . I hope he is going to be able to take this to Congress now . He told me to "just do it " I think I am getting nearer now .

I hope that you might consider signing my letter of signatories . That will be given to the congressman.
You would be first and the only signatories , I am not really interested in getting more , a few from the parallel universe will be more than enough I have not included the letter of signatories here because it needs a bit more attention .

Hopefully all this confusion will not affect our future relationship.

It is nearly dawn

Amalie

[Linda Brown]

Amalie,

You said:

"What was tt brown fighting for all those years, the right to manifest science for human advancement"

Is that an actual question? Do you want an actual answer? Linda

[Linda Brown]

Trickfox said

"The word is EXOPOLITICS.

Anyone understand what I mean here."

Oh, I have heard the word Trickfox. I also understand that there are conferences every year held on the subject. I believe that Paul has even attended one or two. What are you actually asking here? Linda

[Linda Brown]

Amalie,

I keep finding these little bits .... what do you mean by this?

"The last thing I want to do is be tedious . The impression I get is that I have been fairly chewed over and can now be dismissed as a mediocrity ."

I am not sure what you expected of us here. A discussion group? Or a platform? What gave you the impression that you have been " chewed over"?
You say that there has been a "misunderstanding" so I have to ask. Where has that happened?

You may have noted if you have had a chance to delve into the history of this Forum that we have been urged to " not let go of the scent of the fox" and so if you get a sort of strange reaction from some of us it might be that we have sniffed over your material and gone in our little hound minds ..." Oh thats really interesting .... but ....... its not the scent that we need to be chasing."

That sort of observation speaks more to our singlemindedness in our complicated hunt than it does to the value of your discussion. Linda

[htmagic]

Amalie,

I think it is great that Mr. Trickfox has invited you to be part of this forum. Even though you may not feel you can contribute much to TT Brown, I felt the same way when I first came onto the forum. Don’t feel frustrated, just keep on keeping on and all will be all right. Please take Linda Brown's comments to heart. We are not here to "chew" on you.

Setting a space policy may be a good thing. When I toured Kennedy Space Center, it seemed like the International Space Station was added as an afterthought. I mean there was some good gee-whiz technology but nothing of (apparent) substantive value.

I just scanned your website and feel that this is a good start. Protecting the history of space is a good thing and the National Historic Preservation Act (NHPA) could possibly be used as a framework for protecting what you want protected.

But space policy shouldn’t stop at that. Space policy should set some standards that others can follow to ensure compatibility with hardware and software. Remember Apollo 13 when the filters from the command module did not mate with the filters from the LEM? That’s because two different companies were involved and each used their own design in the creation of their equipment that was part of the solution of landing on the moon.

I once presented a paper highlighting the advantages of using commercial off-the-shelf technology (COTS) for hazardous waste treatment, specifically the destruction of chemical (warfare) agents. I promoted the idea of using existing technology with some modifications for use at Government Chemical Demilitarization (Chem. Demil.) sites. I promoted the idea of using modular agent destruction systems (MATS) for the express purpose of destroying chemical agents. The Government has some existing equipment that was purchased and built and is now setting idle. I tried to encourage reuse of this existing technology, modifying it for agent destruction. Since the systems are transportable, when one stockpile facility has been cleaned up, the system could be hauled down to the next facility, augmenting the current destruction of chemical agents or hauled to a facility where there is no destruction facility yet in operation. Once all the stockpiles around the US has been destroyed and verified by the international inspectors, then the modular system could be transported overseas for use by foreign governments with little or no money to build a destruction facility. We could promote good will with our global community by providing them the technology to help in their destruction goals.

The other benefit with this system is that the foreign inspectors would be familiar with this modular system once it was first put into operation in the US. They would not have to retrain to get familiar with a new system because the modular one could be decontaminated and transported to the next site. The entire Chemical Weapons Convention (CWC) Treaty members could “work smarter, not harder.” Permitting the system would also be easier as the design would be set and the permit application could be identical to that used in the previous state where the system was located.

Sounds like a great idea to help speed up the timetable and reduce costs overall by using COTS and MATS, right? Well, some people would be out of a job faster. The big engineering firms couldn’t spend millions of dollars to design a treatment facility (none are cookie cutter technology), using specialized parts for their system, trying to permit their complicated system, building it for a few years, testing, startup, operations, and then finally a few years to clean up and eventually destroy the facility and tear it down to the bare ground. A transportable system that could be hauled in and out could save enormous amounts of time and money, but no one cares or is listening. That is not part of their “agenda.” They are not held accountable to saving time or money because there is no incentive to do so.

Amalie, I’m afraid that is what you might face for the space program. The US and Russians are obviously the leaders in the space program, borrowing on the technology of the German rocket program. Getting other nations involved in an Internal Space Community is a worthy goal, but for the nations to participate, they expect to see real benefits from the program. Where there is no vision, the people perish: (Prov. 29: 18a). You need a vision for your Space Policy. I believe your working draft starts to provide this vision as you have set some goals. But getting the cooperation from even Congress much less an international community, you’re going to have to present them a clear picture of what you wish to accomplish. It will not be easy, but it may be fruitful. One can create this treaty with a lot of “pie in the sky”, motherhood and apple pie ideas and ideals but the bottom line for all nations will be what’s in it for me? And how do they benefit by signing this treaty? Focus on that and the rest may start to fall into place.

Maybe you can incorporate some TT Brown technology into the space program. It apparently has been in the military for some time now. But I don’t expect any of this to bubble to the surface unless independent research can confirm what Dr. Brown was working on can be used by other industries other than just military. Please don’t take this as a “chewing” but suggestions to help formulate your policy. I realize this is a long post but there were many points to consider.

Now, as Dr. Brown would say, “Go forth…”

MagicBill

[Linda Brown]

MagicBill,

This is my own simple version of what you were saying. ( I so appreciate the thoughts that you have shared,)

Most of you know that I spent several years living on Catalina Island.

(Hello Islanders! kisses!) and during that time my husband worked for the Wrigley Company. He was ( and is) a fine mechanic and of course when he first went to work on maintaining the tour buses he went in with his typical "gung ho" attitude as far as getting things done in the right way and in the most expeditious manner. He concerned himself with getting the jobs out on time and under budget. He was good and he was effective. His boss at the time finally came to him and said something that was a revelation to this hard working guy ....." Step it down a few pegs fella ... this division is not supposed to make money ... its supposed to lose money ... the entire operation here is meant as a tax benefit for the rest of the operation. Back down some and save yourself."

Now in todays economy things have probably changed alot but then in the seventies thats the way it was .....

And as Morgan first said to Paul " everyone has an agenda"

To think that such agendas do not exist is just not rational. The hard part is uncovering some of those agendas so that you can get down to the best in working relationships .... the win-win situation. All of the other rhetoric is exactly that ... nice words ... but the operational words are ... Whats in it for me ..... and what do you need? Linda

[amalie]

Dear Linda ,

I have to confess to you I don't really want a discussion group and I certainly don't want a platform to orate from. I just want to find some intelligent friends who can help me finish up the task .

But then if you do not feel that a US generated space treaty would be a useful thing , then there is no reason for you to show any interest.

Maybe I have not been "chewed over" I have just been "sniffed out: and my trail goes in the wrong direction . I am so glad that your hunt is a focused and complicated one but I really don't know what kind of animal you are chasing, the world is dying , is that not the thief that you should track down and exterminate .

Was there a misunderstanding , perhaps I expected something impossible , something which was not a realistic idea , it seems to me that if you Linda are not even interested in the formative ISST proposal then I may well have somehow got my values all upside down, because I believed that good ideas might be worthwhile ones and now I find that the chasing of complicated trails is actually more engrossing . It must be that those trails lead to good ideas otherwise why would you follow them , surely not for a superficial amusement.

Perhaps you could kindly point out to me where the trail lies for ISST, which paths should I follow, what signs and portents should I look for on the way ? For me there seem to be no directions so it is difficult to imagine where to walk .

Would I like an answer to the non-question I posed , not really , you would have already have given me one if you had wanted .

Amalie

[amalie]

Trickfox ,

Why don't you go and see my friend Alfred Webre in Vancouver, he writes books about exopolitics. He also wrote a book about nuclear weapons.

Amalie

[Linda Brown]

Amalie,..... trying to answer step by step ..............you said......
"Was there a misunderstanding , perhaps I expected something impossible , something which was not a realistic idea , it seems to me that if you Linda are not even interested in the formative ISST proposal then I may well have somehow got my values all upside down,"

( WAIT, AMALIE Just because I express reservation about jumping on the project that you are promoting does not mean that I think it is a poor idea. It just hasn't been at the top of my list where with you it certainly seems part of your major focus. That is wonderful! ....but I may have my own reasons for being quiet about joining causes ... even terrific ones. You have to understand. I have lived most of my life in a world where signing a petition would not be on the top of the " to do" list. And I expect that most of the people who have frequented my life would react the same way. To be disappointed in our slowness to " sign up" is I think a reflection of the fact that you don't know us all that well yet.........

then you wrote:

"because I believed that good ideas might be worthwhile ones and now I find that the chasing of complicated trails is actually more engrossing It must be that those trails lead to good ideas otherwise why would you follow them , surely not for a superficial amusement." .......... I am not sure how to answer this part of your message so I will put it out there to others ..... anyone else want to respond to our reasons for being in this rabbit hole?

Perhaps people reach for truths in many different ways, respond to passions presented to them in different manners. May I ask you .... what was it that drew you so strongly into your interest in this space treaty idea? Can you remember the first spark of interest? Really, its not an idle question.

I usually ask of new forum members ... "What brought you to us?" In this case your path found us through Trickfox but I wondered what it was about the story of Townsend Brown that drew you initially? I imagine that it would have been his connections with the various agencies that you are probably quite familiar with .... the NRO being the most substantial.

I imagine that no one gets too far with ideas of a " Space Treaty" without dealing directly with them. But ..... if you haven't had a chance to read the latest chapters you would not know about these connections. So I wonder aloud ..... what was it then about the Townsend Brown story that initially sparked an interest from your point of view? Maybe I am sounding really nosey but this is an attempt to understand better where you are and if there is any way that I can help. I sense alot of mental energy with you and it is looking hard for a place to go. And I want to help you find your way, if I can. Linda

[Martin Calloway]

Good comments MagicBill. Interesting observations.

Amalie,

I am going to be blunt here. I am assuming if you are going to go swinging into this Space Treaty business that you already have a pretty thick hide and can take constructive criticism. And even destructive stuff.

I haven't read all that you have posted yet but my first reaction is that there are alot of as was akready said " pie in the sky good wishes for the future" concepts and not alot of cold hard planning. Which means that you are relying on words because your contacts haven't shown up yet. Hey, that works in the best of situations. Throw up the smoke and mirrors and pray that your situation is solid before anyone notices. Done it myself in ways I probably could never share.

Are you contacting this forum because you somehow feel that there will be technology developed here that will be used there? Again, a disappointment perhaps but I suspect that his work has been up there from the very first.

Do you expect that some of the people on this forum perhaps have the proper connections to bring your thoughts in front of the right people? Not a bad plan but probably not the way that would happen.

Its not easy having a concept that you want to engage action around. People need to know exactly what it is that you are all about. Most of these folks can be highly suspicious and if you are looking for names on papers you would probably be better off sitting in front of WalMart.

Still, I like your enthusiasm. I just would like to see where it goes. Martin

[amalie]

Dear htmagic,

Thank you for support, and for the fabulous fable about the COTS. You have included a of detailed information, I will read it through again as well.

I had a similar experience when I needed to get a new mop. My husband offered to pick one up for me. Knowing how horrible the varieties with squeezy handles and squirters and replaceable suction pads are, idiotic and degenerate designs and then they fall to bits... I asked Alan to get me a regular mop, a pole with long cotton fibers on the end. One that could be wrung out by pushing it against a grill atop a bucket. He returned with the mop. The ends of the cotton fibers had been attached to the pole at both ends, so that it could only be wrung out by pushing and twisting on a round tube flange around the handle, it immediately broke. The fibers got totally twisted around the wringing mechanism and that was that. I tried a sponge version, the kind with a flat plate on a stick and a flat sponge that you push forward in front of you. Unbelievably the sponge section was attached to the plate with some kind of tiny plastic clip and every time you folded the plate up to squeeze out the water, the clip popped out and the sponge fell straight off, various other examples and stories here but I do not want to BORE you.
I have come to the conclusion that the entire mop industry is in a underhanded conspiracy to totally exploit the general public, the current generation of mops is manufactured according to some insane design notion that has nothing at all to do with any adequate usage. The things are often not actually usable and then just self-destruct and the array of replacement parts never ever matches the item that you just brought.

It is must be such a curious and peculiar kind of mind-set that creates useless equipment, bad design and fast redundancy, somewhat symptomatic of the general malaise. Communism was said to have created one kind of disassociation, people drinking vodka all day, no work done because the government wage was guaranteed. Capitalism seem to have created another style for the dysfunctional neurosis, vicious commercialism and the profound gullibility of a throw away society.

However despite all that stupidity we must remain as grandiose and potent creatures
(Human beings that is).

I see this treaty initiative moving forwards on two fronts. First front is upon the" motherhood and apple pie" ideals that you mentioned . Important not so much because people want placebo and propaganda, I do not think they want that either, but because in reality the entire space program and the tremendous space development potential is tremendously inspiring, a genuine focus for world attention and for the unfolding of a pacifist and equitable future condition. The other front is the actual nuts and bolts of what ISST would do for US and for the international community. ISST is a technological initiative; it might readily double or triple US space and tech exports within a few short years. I am not an economist, but the charts will undoubtedly be generated if ISST is to be taken seriously and they will be poured over by the US policy makers, because figures and projections for the economic attributes have to be accurate and conforming ones .I am sure that ISST will make money for US, and it will also expedite an entire new wave for the international development agenda. There are tons of spin offs for everyone here. But itemizing all the attributes of all the catalyzed technological implementations under ISST is a tremendous and probably unnecessary task. Policymaking obtains a general category not an exact budget. So if you had a clause within ISST that supported a particular economic objective or outcome that item could be calculated on a financial basis if data was available, or it could be considered in more general terms as theory for expansion of co-operative interests. We don't all have to squabble over the same bone, there are more dignified ways of doing business. Our world is in trouble a lot needs doing and quickly food supplies are falling, water drying up, ice melting, temperature might rise, tensions could explode for impoverished masses forced to live without hope. Technological implementations could help fix a lot of problems beef up communications, get people involved in development agendas, organize large scale engineering programs, calculate and plan for deficits and distributions, enable the best possible uses for whatever we have. And the best thing about ISST implementation platform is that ISST focuses on expediency and enablement for standardized equipment that is already available. Because it is primarily a treaty for the environment it does not promulgate for vast generations of badly designed, useless and disposable gadgetry rather it says - let us use what we have- in the best possible way- cooperatively - for the best possible outcome.

Amalie

[Rose]

Amalie, I have been giving some thought to ways to help you move your initiative forward. You might begin by researching the Universities which have the top rate gradate departments in the policy arena, (or simply start with Harvard, Yale, and the Top 10 public universities and study their graduate school's faculty list. Make a note each time you find someone who might be an ally and contact them. These are the people who have the connections in places where policy is made. When you find someone who might be an ally, use the "snowball technique" and ask for the names of 5 or 0 others of similar mindset.

The writeups for the departments of Economics, Political Science, Health Administration, Public Administration and Education will often state that Policy is an area of departmental focus. Facutly resumes will also tell you a lot.

And just to be clear about my previous statements, I see policy and politics as different topics. Political discussions focus on candidates, parties, and elections. Policy discussions focus on issues, resources, and stakeholders.

rose

[Mikado14]

There are tons of spin offs for everyone here. But itemizing all the attributes of all the catalyzed technological implementations under ISST is a tremendous and probably unnecessary task.

Tons...give us 500 lbs worth.

Mikado

[htmagic]

I had a similar experience when I needed to get a new mop. My husband offered to pick one up for me. Knowing how horrible the varieties with squeezy handles and squirters and replaceable suction pads are, idiotic and degenerate designs and then they fall to bits... I asked Alan to get me a regular mop, a pole with long cotton fibers on the end. <SNIP>I tried a sponge version, the kind with a flat plate on a stick and a flat sponge that you push forward in front of you. Unbelievably the sponge section was attached to the plate with some kind of tiny plastic clip and every time you folded the plate up to squeeze out the water, the clip popped out and the sponge fell straight off, various other examples and stories here but I do not want to BORE you.
I have come to the conclusion that the entire mop industry is in a underhanded conspiracy to totally exploit the general public, the current generation of mops is manufactured according to some insane design notion that has nothing at all to do with any adequate usage. The things are often not actually usable and then just self-destruct and the array of replacement parts never ever matches the item that you just brought.

Amalie,

BORE me? I laughed and laughed about that mop experience! My wife has had a similar experience just recently. It used to be when I was a kid that when you saw "Made in Japan" it was cheap junk, steer away from it! Now it's "Made in China" and Wal-Mart is stocking it on their shelves.

America is going gung-ho now, outlawing the common incandescent light bulb. Now we are to replace them with compact fluorescent devices (CFDs). But has anyone looked into the CFDs? Each bulb contains argon (a noble, inert gas) and a drop of mercury. When those bulbs fail and people throw them out, these CFDs will make their way into a landfill where they will be broken and the mercury will be released into the landfill. Now hopefully the landfill has a liner and a sump to collect the leachate (garbage juice) from the landfill. But the pumps are designed to pump water, not mercury so the mercury will build up in the landfill and can't be easily removed. I'm sure this will keep some environmental engineers busy so it's job security for them.

One of the problems with space technology is what you've stated - garbage. Even a loose paint chip or bolt whizzing around space can do serious damage on structures like the International Space Station. The Russian MIR with its host of problems was a prime example of badly designed or built hardware, poor quality control, and probably too much use of vodka at their lunch hours!

We hope the thoughts and suggestions on this forum can make your treaty and policy better.

MagicBill

[Trickfox]

Darn it Mr. Twigsnapper....dont you just love these firecracker woman?

Trickfox