PROJECT:PEGASUS

[Mikado14]

I agree with you Mark and I echo the idea. Everybody, lets please stay on course with MarkMs subject. We can't help him if we stray off but I do understand how that can happen. And I am not sure that you ( Trickfox and Mikado especially) really strayed as much as went too deeply into possible complications.

For now lets just keep things simple as Dr. Brown might say. It got so heated between you I was going to ask the two of you to "take it outside" but I lost my message too. So this is it again. I didn't understand a word you were saying. What was going on there?

That is the point, neither did I and I still don't. I asked Mark M a few questions and the next thing Trickfox is answering and I lost it as well and never did get a direct answer.

Mark I am sure has ideas and input. Lets stay with the problems that HE develops on his own and asks for help with ...... I know that you both have unanswered questions and discussions but like I said " Take it outside of this forum thread".

You are actually more correct than I realize Mark C, one must skin their shins and feel the heat to learn. All I was attempting to do was to define the limits of his technical prowess to tell me the level of communication needed and this was discussed with someone else. Maybe you are right, I just get too technical. I will respectfully bow out.

Mikado

Thanks. <g>

Looking forward to Pegasus related conversations. MarkC

[htmagic]

Guys, Guys,

We need ALL of your input here if this is to work!
Mikado, I understand you got lost and Trickfox seemed to be taking us down another rabbit hole.
But that will not keep the project on track if we don't stay focused.

I provided a parts list a few posts back. Is there anything else that we need? Anyone, Mikado, Trickfox, you've been with this forum a long time and remember TTB's posts on the disks. We are dealing with movement of charges in a dielectric field. So we are talking about dielectrophoresis here. We are also dealing with a nonuniform field where one pole is larger than the other. Dr. Brown's videos showed a large disk at the bottom and a smaller disk at the top.

Now someone talked about using plastic HVAC diffusers. My Va-U-Form will vacuum form small plastic sheets which would be a lot lighter. Now what else do we need? Do we wish to do this as a group effort? I think as many that can should build and then we can verify multiple times.

Mikado, and Trickfox, we will need your technical help with this project but we don't have time for rabbit trails or riddles. Would the use of an electret enhance the effect and provide more lift? We already know the lift force is proportional to the voltage (pressure), so is that what you were driving at Mikado? Why don't you just spell it out to the slower members of the bunch?


Help us get Project Pegasus off the ground!

MagicBill

[Trickfox]

MagicBill

You are very easy to talk with. I have no problem answering direct questions about any specific area of technology but I cannot help you if you don't have a SPECIFIC question. If you are just asking me to contribute "stuff" according to how YOU think it should be done, -then give me some real variables, data or metrics on what you want.

Perhaps some of you don't believe what a real rabbit hole is like. Perhaps that once you understand the forces invoved in outperforming the lifters style technologies by a VAST AMOUNT, you are into a whole new realm of basic forces and definitions as well as variables, data, or metrics. How else do you think a device or object could displace itself thousands of miles an hour and suddenly make a right hand turn. Isn't this the technology you want?

Give me a starting point, otherwise I will continue to speculate, and find all my own details to the point where I CAN start to build something. - Who knows, maybe it's something I may never need to build after all.

But that will not keep the project on track if we don't stay focused

You speak as if you know exactly WHERE the track is.... Go a head and focus on your track, but don't try and tell me that you KNOW that I am following "the wrong track", because "you" think it should be more simple.

I am focusing on what I believe is the most important technology on earth. Something which is already COMPLEX by nature and it COULD mean a whole new way of thinking. If you don't mind, I will keep trying to calculate the forces, metrics, data, and variables "on paper" while you are doing what it is you must do to satisfy your own curiousity.

I wish you luck with Pegasus, and go forth by all means. Just be careful when you first toggle that 40 kv. power switch on because you will be causing harmonics from DC to daylight for a fraction of a second. no telling what sort of hazards you may be causing all over the radio spectrum.

Mikado, Let's try something practical. If you put 4445 ordinary 9 volt batteries in a series chain one after another, -how much potential are you developing?
Do you suppose it would "ark" long before you succeeded in connecting all the batteries?
Trickfox

[greggvizza]

Mikado, Let's try something practical. If you put 4445 ordinary 9 volt batteries in a series chain one after another, -how much potential are you developing?
Do you suppose it would "ark" long before you succeeded in connecting all the batteries?
Trickfox

Mikado is taking too long to answer, and I love word problems.

40,005 V, and no it would not arc, because, if you figure one inch for each of the 4445 batteries, the end poles would be 370.4 feet apart.

GV

[Mikado14]

I wish you luck with Pegasus, and go forth by all means. Just be careful when you first toggle that 40 kv. power switch on because you will be causing harmonics from DC to daylight for a fraction of a second. no telling what sort of hazards you may be causing all over the radio spectrum.

That is a chicken little type warning and is not called for. His TV probably has that much on the second anode and I am sure other RF devices function fine in the same room.

Mark M, it is my understanding that you already have a commercially built DC supply. Be careful and build, the worst you will end up doing is knocking your socks off or destroying the supply, both can be exhilarating!

Mikado, Let's try something practical. If you put 4445 ordinary 9 volt batteries in a series chain one after another, -how much potential are you developing?
Do you suppose it would "ark" long before you succeeded in connecting all the batteries?
Trickfox

Being the Math before the egg type of individual that you are, the answer according to Kirchoff would be the sum. To actually purchase them and connect them would be counter to your philosophy. The calculations should be first.

Mark M, when an infant is born, it does not come out of the chute walking, it crawls first. If you have been building and powering up lifters and you want to use the very same supplies for a disc, JUST DO IT!! At least you are doing something instead of sitting in an armchair.

Mikado

[Linda Brown]

Mark M.

After three pages of interaction with the forum here regarding your Project Pegasus, can you see what has happened? Its really wonderful and instructive too. Maybe confusing though too.

You put a simple statement out that you had a "hopeful project" and close to the opening even you said that it was as if someone had added a quarter to the ride that you expected! Nearly spinning out of control now the conversation tapped into existing (but beneath the surface thoughts) which had been shared between other members. Energy there for sure! Plenty of if! But where is it to go? So Mikado and Trickfox did their thing and the rest of us joined in with whatever was on our minds at the time, some of it connected to your Pegasus Project and some of it really did not. Chasing dragons here!

You have learned what Paul has been dealing with all along. You have this project in your own mind but unless you have specific questions to ask this " energy" it just spews out whatever it has available to it ... all very interesting but really up to you to discern what is usable to YOUR particular project.

If you can name what you see for your project I really believe that the thoughts and the people to help you will come in your direction.

But, like Paul, you have to be ready to put out there some well thought out questions. As Morgan did with Paul, remember? He asked him to come up with SPECIFIC questions .... which Paul did ... and even though the answers came slowly , they still form the core of this book he is writing. If he could not ask the specific questions ... I doubt that this all would have been possible.

And you can see that there are people asking what you need. And standing ready to help in the ways that they are gifted. But they can not do this .... only you can set the course! What fun! Linda

[Mikado14]

Mikado, Let's try something practical. If you put 4445 ordinary 9 volt batteries in a series chain one after another, -how much potential are you developing?
Do you suppose it would "ark" long before you succeeded in connecting all the batteries?
Trickfox

Mikado is taking too long to answer, and I love word problems.

40,005 V, and no it would not arc, because, if you figure one inch for each of the 4445 batteries, the end poles would be 370.4 feet apart.

GV

Mr. Vizza,

You did the math!! BUT, what if you built them in a circle?

....this is a distraction, that is, unless Mr. Moody wishes to use these to power a disc, that is why I mentioned circle.

JUST BUILD SOMETHING MARK M. Use a garbage can lid for the lack of anything else but I believe you will find that a much higher supply will be needed than 100Kv. If you want to build small discs, try using teflon to start with as a dielectric, then lexan and other inexpensive materials and keep a record of your results. Before you know it, you will see something.

Have fun

Mikado

[Linda Brown]

Somebody want to ask the OTHER Mark what he might do? Mark Bean? If you are watching this discussion? I remember with fondness what you chose to use as discs. The cymbals from a belly dancers outfit! Beautiful shape and boy could they move! Linda

[greggvizza]

You did the math!! BUT, what if you built them in a circle?

Then they would arc.

And the circle would be 118 ft. in diameter.

GV

[JZimmer]

Gregg

I think you need to think "Pack", just a circle would be impractical, but if you used a square for example and had x by x rows it would only need a fraction of the surface area, and you can also include Z and stack them. I am just thinking on the practical side. Oh yea, don't forget that the arc distance would be greatly influenced by weather conditions!

Last, if memory serves, the point at which an arc will occur is somewhat dependent on the resistance in the wire you use to connect the string of batteries, as I believe the arc will "will take the path of least resistance. So, if I remember this correctly the arc could well occur way before it reaches the end of the battery string; unless of course you properly insulated the wires connecting the batteries, and their posts.

Jim

[greggvizza]

Jim,

We were just having play time; just playful frolicking. 4445 batteries in series is not the way to make 40kV.

If you did hook them all in series though, each jumper wire between batteries has only 9v to deal with, so there would be no arcing there, only if the very end poles were in close proximity to one another. Of course if you stack them XYZ fashion you would run into arcing all along the chain, unless you inserted high dielectric strength barriers.

GV

[Trickfox]

You have learned what Paul has been dealing with all along. You have this project in your own mind but unless you have specific questions to ask this " energy" it just spews out whatever it has available to it ... all very interesting but really up to you to discern what is usable to YOUR particular project.

Thank-you Linda Brown!!!!!

Trickfox

[MARK MOODY]

Sorry for the late replies Ladies and Gents.
I just got home from working a 5am-7pm shift, trust you understand.
Now, lets DANCE!
htmagic=I think 50kvdc minimum is the LEAST amount needed based upon my observations of Tim Ventura's 4 ft lifter.
Also, AC power may add more thrust?
The disc is readily available to all who really desire a model to begin th ere own experiments, it is made of lightweight plastic. Tingsten wire or maybe stainless steel wire, something that lessens corona production, if wire HAD to be used. I was really thinking more along the lines of High-K material, like Barium Titanate or Barium Strontium Titanate.
MarkC=thanks for the comments!
Mikado=sorry if I "rubbed" you the wrong way, I meant no offense and I take no offense to your line of questions.
I am a layman by definition. Someone who just "stumbled" onto this path and found it to be worth the trip, even with all its twists and turns-ups and downs. I never attended any college. I have a military background far removed from this topic I assure you. When I need to know something, I am not ashamed to be the first to say I do not know, but I will find the answer.
I like teaching myself whatever interests me.Granted some of the posts are a lot over my head, but hey, they serve there purpose.Which is to get all of us thinking and hopefully making progress.
Linda=I can see why your father loved you-the apple did not fall far from the tree.
No at at all. In this case, the apple fell straight to the root, and oh what a root
I sure hope I get to meet you one day.
To all I would like to say: to me this is one big puzzle that no one person can solve.
We all are gifted with certain skills and talents.
If you are blessed to be technical, we have a place for you on this team.
If you are blessed to be talented with thought provoking questions, we have a place for you on this team.
Me, all I have is a dream, a desire to see something that some say can not or is not possible.
But hey, remember what people said about us going to the moon or breaking the sound barrier?
Now there is talk of a Mars expedition and the SR-71 Blackbird has long since been retired.
You only RETIRE something when you have something to take its place.
Lets retire the lifter and all talks of constructing more of them.
True, we may use the lifter performance charts by others for reference, but now I say heaven awaits.
Look what a little old, high school graduate accomplished in less than 1 week.
Do you see it?
I got everyone talking constructively about actively participating in a dream!
Now, as Linda said, imagine that energy determined not to take no for an answer!
Impossible? I don't know this word.
Crazy? How sane were the Wright Brothers?
Difficult? Try telling that to a 9 month pregnant women! I bet she will tell you how determined she is!
Come now friends, lets enter the DANCE and see what WE can accomplish.
Leave the nay saying for the pessimist.
Now, since I must awake tomorrow at 3am
I bid you all good night and I will hopefully arrive home tomorrow earlier to see waht awaits me.
Mark

[Mikado14]

Mark M,

Not throwing cold water on you or anyone else....but look at this article.

The important thing is not the device, it is the wall or "potential hill" of a sort that is difficult. IRREGARDLESS of if you put it on the Internet.

Mikado

****edit*****

Picture the vulture in a Warner Bros cartoon: " Which way did dey go George...which way did dey go?"

http://www.thestar.com/sciencetech/Tech ... cle/300042

[Linda Brown]

Help us out here Mikado. What article? Link please! I can't go anywhere without a link! Gee, I sound just like Paul! <g>. Did I miss something somewhere here? Linda