WELCOME NEW FORUM MEMBERS

[Elizabeth Helen Drake]

Rose,

Your posts are extremely interesting. And you seem to be familiar with the 29 Palms, Joshua Tree area.

I have heard about an area near Twenty-nine that was of great interest to Philo Farnsworth at one time. I understand that he spent quite a bit of time scouting the area for a place where he could test his fusor situation but of course none of that actually happened. Probably because even then the "time wasn't right" And he was dealing with ITT at the time I think who would not have understood his desire to be way out in the desert. I wish that Paul was back from his vacation so that he might be able to fill us in on that, or maybe that little bit of anomalous information registered only in my brain.

As you know, the local Indian tribes consider a large area in the Giant Rock vicinity quite special and spirit filled, host to strange happenings and even I have noticed for myself that the updraft winds in this area causes a sort of "hole in the sky" when the rest of the area is cloudy. Odd situation, but fun to watch.

Elizabeth

[AM2]

DELETED

[MARK MOODY]

Gregg,
Please tell me that you were joking when you said you stopped lifter work for almost 3 years?
I mean, you are the only guy that came close to duplicating Brown's work by having a lifter rise vertically in a very controlled manner!
Remember Brown did something like that in the home videotape where an umbrella type device is shown rising in a very stable manner. Even my wife said-"you gotta be kidding, after he accomplished what I saw"- on your controlled lifter video.
And believe me, she really doesn't approve of my "hobby" or understand why I am interested in it!
I can only wish that someday I accomplish what you have-believe me-I am trying.
But I'm having no luck on Ebay with power supplies, thus my idea of Info Unlimited power supplies.
Elizabeth, no I never imagined my Mr. Brown as a soldier or as someone that would jump out of a plane!
I always thought of him as someone more "professional" with too much intelligence to "play" soldier unless it was in a limited role so that it would help him to advance his work.
My favorite part of the book would be the part on the sub experiment!
That threw me for a loop!
I imagined a destroyer ship experiment, never a sub!
Mark

[twigsnapper]

Mark M,

Your comment about Dr. Brown " playing soldier" made me smile. I don't think that he ever went that route, even as a kid. It was Navy, all the way for him. Playing with a little toy gun was not his style. He would go for the battle cruiser!

And that jump into the darkness was his first jump. He had "practised" from a tower but that just taught him how to absorb the shock of landing. It didn't teach him anything else and no one thought it important for him to join the PARAS for what hopefully would be just one experience.

Morgan and I have talked about what it must have been like for him. The ultimate novice drifting down in the dark. We both knew that he would be able to hear even the most unbelievable things as he glided down. Cows mooing in the fields below perhaps. People talking and laughing maybe as they staggered home from a night at their locar tavern. A baby with colic keeping the lights on in a farmhouse far to the right. Of course he must have heard things like that. He might have heard me muttering under my breath something akin to " Shit, where is he, Where is he." But this man landed probably not even ten yards from his mark. Just as cool and composed. Silent. We got him out of the field and into a moving truck and then he started to laugh quietly and thats when I decided I liked this man. He told me later that though he had been issued a sidearm he would never , EVER use it. Yet he still jumped. I shake my head sometimes at the thought of it. What it was like for him to leap into the blackness but then I remember that he must have said to himself " Everything will be alright. Go Forth!" And thats the message that I leave to all of you. Leap. Everything will be alright. GO FORTH. You will land on your spot and there will be those there to help. twigsnapper

[greggvizza]

Mark Moody,

I saw the limit to the lifter, and having very limited spare time in my life, decided not to devote any more time to it. After the precision altitude demonstration, I took it one step further. I desperately searched the internet for an old analog joy stick and found a used one on eBay. All of the game controllers have been digital for years now and I was lucky to find an old analog one. Basically two potentiometers set up X Y with a stick.

Here is a photo of it.


I then built a hexagonal tubular lifter and added 4 additional horizontal corona wires to it. One for forward, one for backwards, one for left and one for right. I already had the altitude control thing down (using another control knob and the normal vertical corona wires) so with the addition of the joy stick the lifter would fly pretty much like flying a helicopter. I designed the 4 circuits needed to translate joystick movements into high voltage signals for each of the 4 corona wires, I even ordered most of the parts, but then it was taking so much of my time, I never finished it.

The lifter is a good demonstration of principal. Just like a kite is a demonstration of flight. But a kite will always be a kite; you can’t strap a jet engine to it. The airfoil is the next progressive step. So the same with lifters. It reaches its limit and it is time for the next progressive step.

I thought that was what you were saying as well. To move beyond the lifter. I swear I heard you say that.

GV

[MARK MOODY]

Gregg,
I once read somewhere that human beings have a higher consciousness.
And every once in awhile we are able to tune into this.
The statement was being made in reference to ufo sightings and it was believed that the sightings people are experiencing are an example of us all tapping into this higher level.
This higher level was in in fact showing us how the "ultimate" aircraft should perform.
Anyway, I say that to say this; all over the world people have ideas all the time. Some act on them and some do not.
Every once in awhile, two or more people will have the same idea without ever meeting each other.
Your idea of a control joystick, believe it or not, is the same thing I thought of a few years ago!
Perhaps a "circle" is coming to a close as I believe Linda or Elizabeth stated.
Here is my idea of the last evolutionary step for the lifter.
Although it will no longer be called a lifter.
The Lazar disc.
A few years ago, I experimented with balsa wood discs covered with aluminum foil. The discs were negatively charged.
An insulated positively charged wire was placed in front of these discs. Although theses devices rotated around a central pole like Brown's rotor, I was not satisfied with the design. So I purchased 2 plastic hvac diffusers and modified those discs by placing solder wire in the front and rear. The difference was that the discs had the electrodes glued to them, thus eliminating the air gap. The result? A very fast and silent rotation!
Now to me, this proved that wherever an electrode was placed, directional-horizontal control would be possible.
Thus I envisioned a joystick! Now, picture a circular disc with charged segments around the rim.
Add controlled vertical lift.
And now the puzzle is complete!
One joystick, one power supply and one disc.
Later, envision Tesla type wireless technology broadcasting power to the disc.
This I am also already pursuing.
Oh, I plan on visitng Pittsburgh on June 21st.
Mark

[Linda Brown]

Mark M,

I am happy that you are pleased with that one puzzle being solved ! Worth a dance in the kitchen for sure! But its only the beginning. To be true to themselves Circles have to close. Linda

[Rose]

For all the lifter guys: I went looking for the link with the video of the GFS saucer:

Flying Saucer Drone in Military Showdown http://blog.wired.com/defense/2008/02/f ... cer-d.html

and found this one as well:

Itty-Bitty, Plasma-Powered Flying Saucer http://blog.wired.com/defense/2008/05/i ... -plas.html

All of you have probably seen them, but if you haven't you might find them interesting.

rose

[greggvizza]

One joystick, one power supply and one disc.

This should read: One joystick, 5 power supplies, and one disc. A separate power supply is needed for each direction: up, forward, reverse, left, right.

Fine if you never plan to have it be self contained with onboard power. If you don’t mind having 5 wires attached to a series of ground based power supplies, then it is a great demonstration of precision control.

Send the power to it by some exotic Tesla means? I guess, but what do the power receivers look like? How much would they weigh? That is the problem with the lifter. It doesn’t lift much. That is why I feel it is best to move on to the next progression in hopes that the force will be greater and thus more practical for a self contained unit.

Your solid plastic dielectric disk is a step in that direction. I swear we are on the same page.

GV

[Mikado14]

Mark Moody,

I saw the limit to the lifter, and having very limited spare time in my life, decided not to devote any more time to it. After the precision altitude demonstration, I took it one step further. I desperately searched the internet for an old analog joy stick and found a used one on eBay. All of the game controllers have been digital for years now and I was lucky to find an old analog one. Basically two potentiometers set up X Y with a stick.



I then built a hexagonal tubular lifter and added 4 additional horizontal corona wires to it. One for forward, one for backwards, one for left and one for right. I already had the altitude control thing down (using another control knob and the normal vertical corona wires) so with the addition of the joy stick the lifter would fly pretty much like flying a helicopter. I designed the 4 circuits needed to translate joystick movements into high voltage signals for each of the 4 corona wires, I even ordered most of the parts, but then it was taking so much of my time, I never finished it.

The lifter is a good demonstration of principal. Just like a kite is a demonstration of flight. But a kite will always be a kite. You can’t strap a jet engine to it. The airfoil is the next progressive step. So the same with lifters. It reaches its limit and it is time for the next progressive step.

I thought that was what you were saying as well. To move beyond the lifter. I swear I heard you say that.

GV

Hello Mr. Vizza,

Controlled altitude you say with corona wires at the compass points? I agree that it is not too much of a leap in logic to go to a control stick for they have been around for quite a few years to control attitude etc in an aircraft, especially with you being a pilot. I do have one question, at what point do you realize the thrust to weight ratio versus the area needed for the electrodes needed become prohibitive? Or do I have this lifter thing all confused?

Just a casual observation,

Mikado


***********edit************

I see you posted while I was composing....I'll just leave it....crossing aether currents.

[MARK MOODY]

Gregg,
Thanks for the quick reply!
Honestly, I never thought of 5 power supplies.
Kinda like a plane uses the same motive source for lift and horizontal flight.
Could you envision a disc rising vertically, and then while in hover mode, the one power supply charging the top and bottom electrodes now is immediateley "switched" to the front and rear electrodes for horizontal flight, kinda like a harrier?
Then, since the disc is now flying horizontally, it is just a matter of a servo type mechanism "rotating" the charges to direction of desired flight. Maybe this will not work if gravity kicked in faster than you could "switch" from a vertical to a horizontal mode?
Tesla tech: Either resonance is used by a transmitting ground coil to an on board receiving coil enabling power to an onboard Cockcroft-Walton multiplier or the receiving coil is the step up transformer.
Mark

[MARK MOODY]

Gregg,
Just had this thought also,
There is a car called the Tesla that runs on rechargeable lithium ion batteries, laptop computer batteries.
Use these batteries onboard?
And, eliminate the top corona wire altogher.
Why not a needle or ball electrode emitting the positive ions?
Saves weight and opens up a whole new range of possibilities?
Mark

[greggvizza]

Honestly, I never thought of 5 power supplies.
Kinda like a plane uses the same motive source for lift and horizontal flight.
Could you envision a disc rising vertically, and then while in hover mode, the one power supply charging the top and bottom electrodes now is immediateley "switched" to the front and rear electrodes for horizontal flight, kinda like a harrier?
Then, since the disc is now flying horizontally, it is just a matter of a servo type mechanism "rotating" the charges to direction of desired flight. Maybe this will not work if gravity kicked in faster than you could "switch" from a vertical to a horizontal mode?

It seemed more practical to generate the control voltages before they were stepped up to 30kV - 75kV. Very difficult to try to control one high voltage source and split it into 5 independent modulated signals.

Yes you could do it all mechanically with servos but what are they going to weigh? It will still never lift itself with even one supply, so why not use 5 separate supplies and make it easy.

Tesla tech: Either resonance is used by a transmitting ground coil to an on board receiving coil enabling power to an onboard Cockcroft-Walton multiplier or the receiving coil is the step up transformer.
Mark

That was my point, how much will 5 receiving coils weigh? Can they receive 70kV at 1mA?

GV

[Rose]

Thank you, Elizabeth. I love collecting the stories of the odd and unusual that are associated with this part of the world. Many of them have their roots in either Cahuilla/Serrano/Chemehuevi legends, or in local UFO lore and I know the ones relating to Giant Rock very well. I have often wondered if the piezo-electric charge of the nearby quartz hill had anything to do with the presence of the UFO's with which Van Tassel claimed communication?

Anyway, stories? Yeah, I've got a million of them, but I will try to keep them to a minimum here, unless I think they may be related to TTB. <g>

rose

[greggvizza]

I do have one question, at what point do you realize the thrust to weight ratio versus the area needed for the electrodes needed become prohibitive?

That is why I went with the octagon. It provided 8 tubes around the perimeter and 8 tubes as spokes in the center. That's 16 tubes vs 3 for a standard lifer. This provides the extra lift to carry the 4 additional horizontal control wires. I have this model built and have flown it, just never got around to finishing the joystick controls.

GV