The Parallel Universe

Thanks for the pictures Gregg and the commentary about bailing out of one of those things " in case the wings fall off." Fossett I read somewhere actually walked around on his balloon in mid flight to repair something once and that was thousands of feet up. Even losing his wings I don't think would phase the man. So what the heck happened?

I read that he was scouting different dry lakes for this speed test. Well, if thats the case he would not have headed for the mountains nearby but more out in the open and as you said, thats a pretty bright little plane.

One more question for your expertise. What would have been its range, fully tanked up? And why, I wonder did he pick that little plane when I am sure Mr. Hilton had other planes at his disposal? Like you said , it would not be the perfect scouting plane. There must have been something more appropriate there in Hiltons stable. Or maybe not.

I feel very much for Mrs. Fossett. Seems a tough deal. Worse than Gilligans Island. He goes off for a three hour tour and just flat doesn't come back. I would be crazy frantic. And have you noticed how resigned the news seems to be? Oh well they seem to infer, people go missing like this all the time, its rough country, he may never be found. Victoria

I am inclined to believe your boss grinder. Something is just not right here. Victoria

Victoria Steele wrote:One more question for your expertise. What would have been its range, fully tanked up? And why, I wonder did he pick that little plane when I am sure Mr. Hilton had other planes at his disposal? Like you said , it would not be the perfect scouting plane. There must have been something more appropriate there in Hiltons stable.

Again, not the most appropriate scouting plane. The Decathlon only holds 40 gal of fuel which gives it a 3.5 hour or 500 mile range. That would mean 250 miles out, 250 miles back, or just 3.5 hours total scouting time. The plane is made for aerobatics not long range cruising.
A Cessna 182 on the other hand holds 92 gallons of fuel, which gives it 7 hours of flight time between fueling, which makes it a more ideal scouting plane. Cessna 182s are virtually ubiquitous, they are what I would call an every-mans plane; you will find multiple 182s at virtually every airport in the world and even though they are boring and I don’t like them, it would be the right plane for the job.

I just realized after writing that last sentence that I would have probably taken the wrong plane for the job. It would be very difficult for me to take a Cessna with a Super Decathlon sitting there. (Sort of like having to choose between a Chevy Impala and a Porsche). Maybe he had a similar problem.

GV

Gregg. You said

"Again, not the most appropriate scouting plane. The Decathlon only holds 40 gal of fuel which gives it a 3.5 hour or 500 mile range. That would mean 250 miles out, 250 miles back, or just 3.5 hours total scouting time. The plane is made for aerobatics not long range cruising"

Which begs the question of course, why the 17000 square mile search range? And why would a man who knows planes take the wrong one for the job? ( unless as you said his ego got in the way a bit but if Fossett is anything as I have read of him he was careful beyond reproach and he would have suited the plane for the job. Which begs the next question
... just what was his purpose in taking that particular plane?

I believe that the ranch would have had plenty of Cessnas, of course maybe they were off the flight line for some reason or another.

In any case it is obvious that he was not planning to be gone for very long. He told Peggy Fossett that they were going to be leaving later that day and a private jet was standing by ...... so Gilligan ..... where the heck are you?

And LongboardLovely. Thankyou for asking. I have been fine. Still limping along but I guess thats going to be my identifying trademark? Just busy with fall activities I guess. Age is a good competitor. The rule is, always go for the knees. All you martial artists out there will be smiling right about now because you know what I am talking about. twigsnapper

With all this discussion of different planes and stuff the thought came to me. " Did Townsend Brown have a pilots license? Did he ever spend much time up in private planes? Or did he stick to commercial stuff? Its never been mentioned and yet he certainly seems surrounded by those who love flight. I was thinking here of Agnew Bahnson particularly, but he knew William Lear too, right? And Floyd Odlums wife Jackie was quite the pilot. I just wondered if he didn't fly if that was one of the requirements for his " companions". like Charles Miller. Mr. Twigsnapper , are you a pilot too? and Morgan? grinder

Mr. Twigsnapper,

You started me thinking about the search radius of 17,000 square miles, and I realized that a larger search area would be necessary for a plane with a range of 250 miles.

Assuming a radius of 250 miles out and back would be about 200,000 square miles to search (and the full 500 miles would be about 2.5 million square miles). Of course, that's a circular radius from the point of take off.

Perhaps the searchers have some idea as to where he might have been headed if they can "pin point" it to a square area of 130 by 130 miles.

Twigsnapper -

Off the subject a bit, but your mention of martial arts brought to mind for some reason the Jimmy Cliff lyrics, "The harder they come, the harder they fall -- one and all." Maybe it's the Caribbean connection. Anyway, it's good to consider this observation from time to time. Balance is the key. One of my observations of Townsend Brown that impressed me was what seemed to be his wonderful sense of balance in his perspective on life.

As ever,

Griffin

This is a rather long post regarding Floyd Odlum, but he is an important character to consider.

Even when I’m only casually dealing with a person or group, I like to have a sense of their character. In regard to some of the people who seem to be identified with The Caroline Group, it’s pretty murky, obscure and difficult to determine as the recent post on Floyd Odlum indicates. I’ve made an effort to take a balanced look at these people and their activities in the broadest context, including the realities of their times. Although Odlum could be seen as a cut-throat and possibly unscrupulous competitor, he could also be seen as someone who looked for bargains and paid what he thought a company or commodity was worth under the prevailing circumstances. If the company was in or near crisis or failure, it would obviously take a considerable investment of time and money to get it running right again. Almost all good investors have that attitude. When you only hear and consider one side of a story, it’s much harder to determine what’s true. Odlum seemed to have had a penchant for developing both people and institutions. He’s said to have campaigned during WWII to include more small and medium sized businesses in the war contracts mix. He apparently believed this would serve the country best in all respects and some reflection indicates to me that he was probably right, although his plan wasn’t adopted. His venture into uranium acquisitions may indicate a two-fold interest: making a profit and assuring a dependable supply as needed. He was obviously excellent at achieving both aims.

It appears to me, based upon my own research and what Townsend Brown seemed to indicate, that the behind-the-scenes groups – including the so-called “MJ-12â€

I realized I wrote 1997 for the Odlum ranch meeting when it should be 1967. Time is a malleable factor, but correct dates are important.

The date has been corrected, thanks to greggvizza.

As ever,

Griffin

Griffin,

If you are logged in, you can hit the scissors icon in the upper right corner of your post and it will allow you to edit your date error.

GV

Griffin...It is interesting that you mention a Sufi influence upon Templar traditions. I was not aware of that but now I can see it.

I am a great admirer of the Sufi-Muslim traditions, literature, and arts...especially the poetry of Rumi. Most are not aware of this set of beautiful traditions and are content with the media-driven images of Muslim radicals waving ak-47's as an identifying standard of knowledge.

Oh...what a wicked world we live in. Thanks for that info.

flow....

Griffin,

You have an amazing clear view of that meeting and this I thought was a thought well expressed also.

"Relating this from one person to The Caroline Group itself, it may be that it works to accomplish a greater, long-term goal but accommodates itself within reason to the exigencies of the times, circumstances, and people it has to deal with and work with, just as Townsend Brown did in Philadelphia and probably other places as well. I’m sure we’ve all had to do this in our life experience. As an example in my own experience, when I was particularly active in the martial arts I had to interact with some so-called martial artists who were only partially developed in character and behavior -- undercooked."

Anyone remember Buffetts " Fruitcakes" lyrics. Desdemona was wise. twigsnapper

Twigsnapper-

Thank you for responding and closing my open question with an answer, as well as a musical recommendation. Much inspired and inspiring music has come out of the Caribbean.

As ever,

Griffin

Mr. Twigsnapper...

Good to see you posting once more. In light of your past associations with the Marley family, I thought you'd appreciate a little snippet that I ran across today. This seems to be the ways that the neverending culture wars are being fought these days... licensing and money

Wonderful music from this family though, especially when it came to the first Mr. Marley. But his progeny are every bit as talented in other ways. I listen to my my tapes quite often...and yes, they usually make me feel better when all is said and done.

flow....

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/09/14/busin ... arley.html

flowperson wrote:http://www.nytimes.com/2007/09/14/busin ... arley.html

"The music business is a cruel and shallow money trench, a long plastic hallway where thieves and pimps run free, and good men die like dogs. There's also a negative side." --Hunter S. Thompson

Paul S. wrote:

flowperson wrote:http://www.nytimes.com/2007/09/14/busin ... arley.html

"The music business is a cruel and shallow money trench, a long plastic hallway where thieves and pimps run free, and good men die like dogs. There's also a negative side." --Hunter S. Thompson

And I might add a ditto when it comes to any sort of artistic pursuit that migrates into the "marketplace"...especially writing, eh ? Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas just happens to be a favorite of mine

flow....