Chapter 65: Good Morning, Sweetie Peach

Use this section for any discussion specifically related to the chapters posted online of the unfolding biography, "Defying Gravity: The Parallel Universe of T. Townsend Brown
grinder
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affinity for water

Post by grinder »

Who knows kevin. This is a very strange rabbit hole. I understand that Branson really loves water, being on it, around it, in it. I think too he is a natural dowser of other energies.
What a shame if you had knocked him out. I think you probably have much in common. grinder
Chris Knight
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Post by Chris Knight »

The Fossett issue has been on my mind as well. The fellow was apparently a walking beeper, and he just disapears. Odd.

A man with that experience and equipment on him should be easy to find. Plus, first thing he would do if there was any trouble would be to signal out.

I was discussing him with Elizabeth the other day, and we considered that an EMP would bring down all of the electronics at the same time, but then how to get him safely out of the sky without harming him (assuming that was the case).

However, if the case was to retire him then that wouldn't be an issue, but then you should be able to find the crashed plane considering the firepower being used to locate him, wouldn't you think ?

Then again, he may just have landed in a shadow, but, but, but...lots of questions.
Andrew
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"If you think the situation is under control, then you don't truly understand the situation."
grinder
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strange thoughts

Post by grinder »

Really. Elizabeth was considering that? Now that could bring you down fast enough, with a complete loss of power and unable to punch out any distress calls but then you still have the wreck and certainly by now they would have been able to find the wreckage? And wouldn't that have to be some sort of a focused weapon? Which.... Oh ... I don't think I even want to to where that might suggest. STILL .... where is the wreck?

I was talking with my boss the other day and he has a nefarious mind, (which he needs to keep ahead of the bad guys (being into personal security for celebrities... you have to think of kidnappings and stuff like that in his line of work and of course that sort of worry has managed to rub off on me. Well, that comes easy when you find yourself signed up for a course in evasive driving. (Ever seen a limo in a four wheel drift? <g> )

I asked him what he thought might have happened. Of course he stressed that he didn't know but one of the things that he would be investigating is the possibility that Fossett might have taken a stowaway aloft and then been overpowered so quickly that he couldn't signal out. The plane then could be landed ( his attacker of course would have to be a pilot himself )
If all of this happened before people were out there looking for Fossetts plane ( say, within the first hour of the flight) it could be landed on one of those dry lakes,.... The wings disassembled and the whole thing loaded into a tractor trailor rig and be well good and gone before the first alarm was sounded. Leaving Fossett in someone elses hands and who knows where. Thats the thought that he had and thats hung with me for hours now as I considered that he might somehow be right.

Frankly I hope they find the guy alive and well and eating his peanut butter, sitting on a boulder and just waiting for someone to show up but the above scenario might be valid and if we thought of it I am sure others have.

It would answer some strange questions I have. Mainly, why are they searching such a wide area for a plane that had such a limited flight scope? That makes not a whole lot of sense. And like you said Andrew. Mechanical problems? You yell mayday mayday at the top of your lungs, I would think first off. Punch every button that would go beep beep.

Like I said. I hope they find the guy. Having him terminally missing would be a terrible blow to his friends and his wife and to everyone I think who loves the sense of adventure that he epitomized. grinder!
Martin Calloway
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strange indeed

Post by Martin Calloway »

I guess while we are all waiting for the next chapter from Paul this Fossett mystery is fairly absorbing.

I am somewhat familiar with the area Mr. Fossett flew out of and if he is using one of the planes on loan from Mr. Hiltons ranch you can be sure that the mechanics were top notch. I understand that it was a Citabria Super Decathlon which is normally an aerobatic plane but I doubt that he would have been using it as such. A real mysery.

I honestly expected them to find him within hours. Either making marks in the desert, or building a bonfire or something. Even if he was just a smudge on the desert lake bedI expected them to find him. But not to find anything? Just can't be! This is a guy that went down in a balloon in shark infested waters and still got rescued. That they can't find a trace of him is beyond comprehension.

And of course someone always has to mention the plane that disappeared some three years ago and has never been found ..... and some of the other incidents .... but I just can't feature it happening to Steve Fossett.
Martin
Martin Calloway
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getting back

Post by Martin Calloway »

Getting back

Just a comment on that peacock in the cage that Paul mentioned.
Mr. Deacker also bought a beautiful race plane and then let it sit untended in a field ( not too far from you Mikado?). So you can see that his character remained at least consistent. Martin
greggvizza
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Decathlon

Post by greggvizza »

I have flown both the Citabria and the Decathlon. Both of those planes are made by a company called Bellanca. They are both aerobatic, but the Citabria is more what I would call semi-aerobatic, having an asymmetrical wing. The Decathlon is fully aerobatic with a symmetrical wing, meaning the airfoil is the same whether the plane is right-side-up or up-side-down. It has inverted fuel and oil systems and the structure of the fuselage and wings are made of tubing covered with a dacron fabric all rated for high G manouvers. It has dual magneto fired spark plugs which are like an old Briggs & Stratton lawnmower engine, so I wouldn’t think that it would be effected by an EMP. Usually the wings are painted very flashy for aerobatics so it should be easy to spot if it crashed. I don’t really see it crashing though.

GV
Mikado14
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Re: getting back

Post by Mikado14 »

Martin Calloway wrote:Getting back

Just a comment on that peacock in the cage that Paul mentioned.
Mr. Deacker also bought a beautiful race plane and then let it sit untended in a field ( not too far from you Mikado?). So you can see that his character remained at least consistent. Martin
Yes, in Pottstown. Remember seeing it as a kid/young man. It was a Corsair.

Mikado
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy
Mikado14
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Re: strange thoughts

Post by Mikado14 »

grinder wrote:I asked him what he thought might have happened. Of course he stressed that he didn't know but one of the things that he would be investigating is the possibility that Fossett might have taken a stowaway aloft and then been overpowered so quickly that he couldn't signal out. The plane then could be landed ( his attacker of course would have to be a pilot himself ) . grinder!
I find that scenario a little difficult. Where would the would be hijacker hide? Not much room in there for I believe it is a two seater. I could be wrong but it is curious and curiouser.

Mikado
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy
grinder
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where to hide?

Post by grinder »

Good point. Where to hide? Maybe out in the open? Maybe Fossett took a passenger without mentioning it to anyone? Maybe the passenger wasn't the friend he thought he was? They have said on the news that he was looking for a dry lake bed that would be appropriate for a land speed record, but isn't it just a little silly to go looking for it in a plane when all of those things are so well documented?

And he is flying out of a VERY private ranch. Nicky and Paris might get in the news but their grandfather stays well below the radar most of the time.

I am having even more difficult time seeing how this special little plane, according to Gregg, which could fly just about in any attitude and so brightly painted .... and immune to an EMP blast .... ( does that mean that it would keep flying but the electronics onboard would not work? Help me out here guys cause I know next to nothing about planes). I just don't understand how a little plane like that ( with obviously not a very wide flight range) could disappear itself over the search area that they now say covers 17000 miles? HUH? I hope some good writers are paying attention to this because I'll bet it would make one helluva movie.

Lets just hope he gets found camping out by his plane. grinder
grinder
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and another thing

Post by grinder »

I have been noticing the ODD way that information "Presents" itself to the forum and to Paul. Notice Greg and Mikado how we all went through that sort of extensive discussion about racing planes and Jackie Cochran, even the plane that Decker bought. And here all of a sudden the same subject is rearing its head and I have no idea why other than the strange feeling that it is sort of " self organizing " the material for us.

What are the connections I have been asking myself between what has just happened and the book that Paul is writing? In Dr. Browns case I think that the main link might be Floyd Odlum and his wife. I'll bet you that if you looked up this William Baron Hilton you are going to find a working relationship ( not to mention a friendship perhaps) between these people. And there Dr. Brown is, right in the middle of things. And I would wager again that what we are seeing is a continuation somehow of that " multigenerational" project. This " accident" just may be one more chapter in this other book maybe called the " Caroline Group"

What did Richard Branson call for ? A council of twelve? If that be the case then perhaps one of those twelve just went missing? grinder
Elizabeth Helen Drake
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some links actually

Post by Elizabeth Helen Drake »

There is this comment made of Floyd Odlum which might shed some light on connections

http://members.tripod.com/derekhorne/cochran.html

Floyd Odlum was one of the cleverest and most affluent individuals you could meet back in those days. His company, The Atlas Corporation had made him $14 million by 1929, which was a huge fortune to have particularly when at the time the majority of the United States had hardly any money at all. At one time or another, he obtained control of or was involved in the management of companies like the Greyhound Bus Company; RKO Pictures Corporation and Paramount Pictures; Hilton Hotels Corporation and Consolidated Vultee Aircraft Corporation (Convair). At the time they met, Jackie had no idea Floyd was such a wealthy man.

Jackie Cochran had been thinking of learning to fly for months, the seed was sown by Floyd, who told her that “If you’re going to cover the territory you need to cover to make money in this kind of economic climate, you’ll need wings. Get your pilots licence!â€
flowperson
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Post by flowperson »

Here's a couple of tidbits that I found concerning Mr. Odlum. Not much out there unless you really dig. I went to the trouble because when I Wiki'd his birthplace, Union City, Michigan. he wasn't listed as a person of note from that town. Strange huh ? I'm sure Floyd's life was also pretty strange.

http://www.namebase.org/cgi-bin/nb06?_ODLUM_FLOYD_B

This item is somewhat conspiracy-oriented and I apologize for that. But it does contain a lot of details that do not seem to very acessable elsewhere.

flow....

Floyd Bostwick Odlum (born 1892; The Pilgrims, 1969, information not found anywhere else) was a billionaire, possibly several times over. (The list does not state in which year members were admitted; many are probably admitted by mid-40’s and most by age 50). The 1952 Who’s Who, page 1832, had Odlum in the Piping Rock Club; the New York Yacht Club; and the Seawanhaka Corinthian Yacht Club and the Metropolitan---high powered clubs interlocked with The Pilgrims and with most significant “globalistâ€
Dancing is better than marching
Elizabeth Helen Drake
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thankyou

Post by Elizabeth Helen Drake »

Thank you Flow for that information.

It is difficult to get that amount of information about Floyd Odlum together in one spot so I really appreciate what you have done and I know it will give us all a better idea of the scope of the person who sent Curtis LeMay out Yoo hooing in the desert for a certain sunbathing scientist.

And I am tempted to follow up on something I am sure that Mr. Twigsnapper would add ..... " Don't forget the women" in this story and that can be said for Mrs. Odlum too.

I can see the conspiracy tinge to the article but I understand that.

Its difficult to look at any secret group without wondering about their agendas and assuming that they must be operating on the very lowest levels of morality ( How else could they get where they get, we figure!) But perhaps that is not always true. Perhaps there is something going on here that we just haven't seen because of the nature of it.

I know for certain from my research that we would have been years behind in the space race if Mr. Odlum hadn't himself personally shouldered the initial expenses of the program through his Atlas Corporation. There was no one else that could or would do it but he stepped forward. I am sure that eventually he was paid for his efforts but that doesn't take away his ability to get things done when they needed to be done.

And in looking at the Northrop situation, if you study it carefully you will see that Jack Northrop would not have been financially capable of delivering the planes that he was contracted for. It looked like a rough deal for him at the time, being shut out the way he was but in later years his Northrop Corporation came back with help from Odlum himself. In fact in 1967 I believe that Mr. Odlum was a major stockholder and promoter of that company. Look then at what was developed under THOSE wings.

Wonderful details that can all be chased down for authenticity. But from what I have seen Flow this article is essentially correct. Thanks for sharing it with us! Elizabeth
flowperson
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Post by flowperson »

EHD...You are certainly more than welcome my dear. Besides, the very first model airplane that I built as a boy was the Northrup "Black Widow" a famous night fighter/bomber of WWII vintage. Yes indeed, their merger with Grumman in the 60's was certainly a winner for them.

Many people seem to naturally "have it in" for rich people, but I don't necessarily. That's why such write-ups usually have such a "sneery" tone to them, but this one seemed chock full of useful things. I only figure that rich people were in the right place, at the right time, with the right information, and I wasn't...and they have more headaches than I do. That doesn't automatically make them all bad people.

Hey...look at Oprah...she's G-d ! And Ellen's next !

flow.... :)
Dancing is better than marching
greggvizza
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Re: where to hide?

Post by greggvizza »

grinder wrote:I am having even more difficult time seeing how this special little plane, according to Gregg, which could fly just about in any attitude and so brightly painted .... and immune to an EMP blast .... ( does that mean that it would keep flying but the electronics onboard would not work? Help me out here guys cause I know next to nothing about planes). I just don't understand how a little plane like that ( with obviously not a very wide flight range) could disappear itself over the search area that they now say covers 17000 miles? HUH?
The Decathlon is not your typical scouting plane; it is specifically for aerobatics. There are much better scouting planes in the Cessna line like 172, 182 etc. The decathlon is not big on instruments. Its bare bones. It was never intended to be a stable precision instrument platform; it’s for stunt flying. Therefore about the only thing you would be missing after an EMP would be the radio and ELT. The engine doesn’t use electronics.

As Mikado mentioned, it sits two people in tandem (one in front of the other) both seat cushions are actually parachutes (incase you break the wings off in a high G maneuver) there is a big red lever that you pull and the doors blow off, you twist the release on your 5 point harness, and you jump out.

Here are a few photos that show the typical paint schemes. It sure would be hard to miss.

http://www.princetonairport.com/image/g ... super4.jpg

http://www.realairsimulations.com/conte ... _decathlon

GV
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