Chapter 64: Flying Saucer Pipe Dreams

Use this section for any discussion specifically related to the chapters posted online of the unfolding biography, "Defying Gravity: The Parallel Universe of T. Townsend Brown
Mikado14
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Post by Mikado14 »

Langley wrote:
On the ionic wind: It suddenly strikes me that a ion generator will quickly remove Radon progeny products from household air, so if you sit one on a damp cloth and replace the cloth every week or so, you will cut down the main civilian exposure to ionising radiation.
This rang a bell, that is, what you said. So I decided to Google for once.

You remind me of myself, years late and 1000's of dollars short.

http://www.freepatentsonline.com/5241449.html

Mikado
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy
Langley
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Post by Langley »

Mikado14 wrote:
Langley wrote:
On the ionic wind: It suddenly strikes me that a ion generator will quickly remove Radon progeny products from household air, so if you sit one on a damp cloth and replace the cloth every week or so, you will cut down the main civilian exposure to ionising radiation.
This rang a bell, that is, what you said. So I decided to Google for once.

You remind me of myself, years late and 1000's of dollars short.

http://www.freepatentsonline.com/5241449.html

Mikado
Oom buka toohey. (Buy you a beer in New Guinea Highlander)
There is a pressing need for it and the awareness it would foster. There's gotta be a market. It is a real need.

http://www.epa.gov/radon/healthrisks.html

We agree.

Its not the radon per se its the "hot particles" (if you like) it generates and which stuck in the lungs (though DVA say particles that size range don't get retained if you served in radiation affected areas of Japan - which means those vets are immune , magically(being sarcastic ) (ah, the sociology of science. Its rarely impartial)(probably why http://www.epa.gov/radon/healthrisks.html
FAILS to mention its the Radon progeny (the particulate decay products) that are the main danger. Can you see the cleft stick the authorities are in? They cant even adequately describe the hazard of internalised alpha emitting particles properly for fear of undercutting the Defence Nuclear Agency case for not acknowledging harms from fallout!!! Also EPA says Radon is a decay product of uranium, okay but its parent is radium. Avoid radium, it vents radon.)

But Im thinking, why not try and trap the progeny in a disposable filter - ok that would concentrate them and the filter would be hot and have to be disposed of in an approved manner. But although removing them from the air takes care of the primary vector, household dust in carpets and on surfaces becomes a long term hazard related to inhalation and retension of HPs. That is a 3D volumetric hazard, not necessarily adequately described by simple surface monitoring. Its the nature of the particles and their ability to deliver consistent insult to the same line of cells over time when internalised. Internalised alpha emitters are very dangerous. Though the risk is reduced with decent housekeeping and ventilation.

A commercial version for basements in big buildings Anyway, there is a need for it. Congratulations.

HTML
http://72.14.253.104/search?q=cache:huI ... t=clnk&cd=
PDF
http://cdsagenda5.ictp.trieste.it/pdf_d ... ida=a05194
(Technical Meeting on Analytical Methods for Characterization of ...
File Format: PDF/Adobe Acrobat - View as HTML
Direct alpha spectrometry for characterising radioactive ?hot? particles (R. Pöllänen - Radiation &. Nuclear Safety Authority (STUK), Helsinki) 40' ..)

Its my view with alpha emitters of small size that their health effects depend upon internalisation and consequent irradiation of lines (generations) of adjacent cells. That logically depends upon the fate (movement, deposition) of individual particles rather than upon direct 2D surface monitoring by alpha detector. ie the health outcomes are NOT predicted with certainty by external surface monitoring alone in low count settings. It only takes one hot particle and one failure of cellular repair...

(Many current US definitions of Hot Particles describe them as skin dose hazards only and that is wrong, sorry. ) (Weird when you consider that they were first identified in 1951 in lung tissue of a sheep formerly tethered at NTS)(Goldman I think found the first one. Teller's marketing of fallout resulting in the lie about internal hazards of alpha emitting flecks.) (English claim they found em first, in 1950, but once again, currently described as skin dose hazards only, its wrong.)

http://www.llrc.org/du/images/pulnode.jpg
Fig. 9. Photomicrograph of Hot Particle in lung tissue (Plutonium in this example) from Busby at www.llrc.org/du/subtopic/durs.htm

Thing about cigarette smoke is that it attracts the radon progeny particles, clumps them and they are still small enough to stay in the air for a long time, when breathed in, the person suffers many times the exposure from a single internalisation event.

(This uncorking isnt aimed you Mikado, my programming just kicked in)
Yea, with alpha the 2D monitoring reading merely describes degree of internalisation risk. Volumetric monitoring would provide accurate monitoring of hazard. However, outcomes are uncertain as the movement and final deposition of particles are not known. A sort of uncertainty principle - harms are foreseeable but actual outcomes uncertain.

Yep, I think AEC has cost Mikado some money & created apathy in the public mind.
http://www.ratical.org/radiation/SecretFallout/
Free complete book by Dr E Sternglass.

http://www.nrc.gov/reading-rm/doc-colle ... 90048.html
One US definition of Hot particle. Skin dose only folks.

Teller Lives!! A free Tooheys for anyone who can find a US or British government document which admits the internal hazard of hot particles in the definiton. Hundreds exist which limit it to "Skin Dose".

UK:
http://www.ph.bham.ac.uk/research/radia ... imetry.htm

Skin!!!

US Surgeon General - Lung Cancer. Everyone else - SKIN (Alpha cant penetrate skin to living cells of dermis)

Its not just me is it? Its upsetting. Im going to bed.
Victoria Steele
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misdirection?

Post by Victoria Steele »

SCAREY STUFF ABOVE. TAKING NOTE OF IT ALL.


Mikado you said
There is proof in this chapter of the misdirection....and it wasn't from Paul.

You want to go further on that because you have caught me going ....what? What? I am all ears!

I will save my hounding Paul until later. He did like too well on this last. I am surprised that you weren't tempted Paul to cut it in half just to keep me at bay!

But you know, that won't work for too long. Going to be visiting friends for a while but I will be back. FAIR WARNING, Victoria
Mikado14
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Re: misdirection?

Post by Mikado14 »

Victoria Steele wrote:SCAREY STUFF ABOVE. TAKING NOTE OF IT ALL.


Mikado you said
There is proof in this chapter of the misdirection....and it wasn't from Paul.

You want to go further on that because you have caught me going ....what? What? I am all ears!
My dear Victoria, how many dances do you want to owe me?

Let me check with Paul to make sure that there was no error on his part but if you want a hint, read the post that describe the Biefeld-Brown effect. Having a negative moment here that I hope to switch to positive but I will get back to you.


Mikado
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy
Bulwark
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Xcellent!

Post by Bulwark »

Yak'éi ixwsiteení

Been awhile since I posted but like a lone wolf, you'll find me lurking in the shadows.

Just thought I would post and tell you Paul how much I enjoyed this episode. Looks as if you are up to the early fifties now, your over the hill but the best is yet to come cause it is all downhill. Probably not, but what the hey, thought I would say it. Anyway, good things always cause you to breath harder at the finish line.

I haven't seen my Longboard Lovely posting much. Are you lurking as well?

I read somewhere in here, don't remember the thread, but is Elizabeth gone? or busy? or whatever? tooka ride in an FTM? bad Chinese food?

Bulwark
Langley
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Re: misdirection?

Post by Langley »

Victoria Steele wrote:SCAREY STUFF ABOVE. TAKING NOTE OF IT ALL.
Please dont be scared. The earth is mildly radio active. EPA shows in that in poorly ventilated, poorly housekept buildings, there's a build up. As building sealing has improved, so the problem has increased. Hence the need for Mikiado's product. But as I have tried to show, sections do not want population aware of problems specific to the type of hazard. In my personal opinion.

Point is authorities keep saying and have said so for years "Man made stuff is less than background".

OK But EPA shows specific situational hazard from natural background, actual casualty figures pa in US. Surgeon General issues warning. "Get Clean Air"

OK, but dont subtract man made exposure from background. ADD THEM UP.

and then realise by ventilating the house to vent the radon and its progeny, any man made stuff blowin in the wind is gonna come in through the windows!!!

My personal opinion. No need for fear, please.

Background radiation causes casualties in certain situations. Fresh clean air is answer etc.

Please dont be down Mikado. Youre brilliant.
Mark Culpepper
The Dean
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round or boomerang

Post by Mark Culpepper »

Which was it I wonder Paul. The fellow who is quoted as saying he saw " flying saucers" ( yes, I know, he didn't really say that ..... but he did say that he was seeing something ROUND and then you show the picture of him holding up a rendition of something that definitely was not the " Flying Saucer scenario but something quite different! So which was it? And if it was a " flying wing" then why did things get changed in the press? And then later how was it that the Adamski story took off like it did? And we all should know that Dr. Brown seemed to have a real interest in the Adamski design? So what was happening there? Are you going to be able to get into it? My brother is still interested in that design. Hit him when he was a teenager and he still wants to know which came first, Dr. Browns device ... or the Adamski design and pictures? stranger and stranger. Great chapter!

I happen to have one of Adamskis books and the forward was written by a woman by the name of Charlotte Blogette. From the Bahamas. And I just thought. Hold on! Caroline Group?????

You OK Elizabeth?

Beating Victoria to the punch .... so what happens next? MarkC
Mikado14
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Re: round or boomerang

Post by Mikado14 »

Mark Culpepper wrote: I happen to have one of Adamskis books and the forward was written by a woman by the name of Charlotte Blogette. From the Bahamas. And I just thought. Hold on! Caroline Group?????
Mark, my old friend (may I use that salutation?), someone has the spelling wrong, you or "Crash Bandikoot" (he'll never figure that one out)?

http://forum.ttbrown.com/viewtopic.php?p=5337#5337
Mark Culpepper wrote:Beating Victoria to the punch .... so what happens next?
Well, the redhead could be tossing a frisbee around but then who knows, she will appear on the next full moon or when the next chapter appears, which ever is first <g>

Mikado
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy
Victoria Steele
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oh, I am here

Post by Victoria Steele »

Mikado,

Oh I am here. Just waiting for THURSDAY PAUL. But then I know all he will do is mention next thursday. Is OK. I have the patience of a turtle in a white rabbits body!

Paul has his hands full I think and I really can't figure out how he can possibly tell the whole story here. Frankly I think its going to take years for this all to unravel but when it does it will because of the work that Paul has put out. Each subject opens another vein to follow and there just isn't enough time for even a handful of people to follow everything.

So I vote for sticking with the personal history. The travels of that little green tea pot and the subway token from New York City. All the rest of the scientific stuff will rage on for years and years and I can see already that there are possibilities for new technology just lying there waiting to be picked up. But me? I just want to know how love fares in all of this because to me thats the most important thing in the long run.

HShort?

Would it be worth writing then? Or does it have to be a technical journal with everything spelled out to prove its worthyness? If it was there would be no mystery left. And like Paul said when someone told him to "embrace the mystery" it takes alot of the pressure off. Of course thats what Clint Eastwood said he did ..... he also said that he had been on that road to meeting Meryl Streep all his life. ( Bridges of Madison Cpunty) I sort of feel like I have been caught up in that sort of thing too. Wouldn't miss it.

Problems my Grandmother used to say are things that you can understand finally and have solutions for, but mysteries ... No ... Never .... you just have to learn that they are there and to respect them .... notice them .... and LOVE is the biggest mystery of them all. I think so anyway.

A book about love not being worth writing? And proof positive needed before it could be worth it and of any kind of value? I am not the most religious person in the world but I am speaking for my Grandmother here and she would tell you that the Bible is all about LOVE and HOPE and last I looked, its always at the top of the best seller list. I understand what you were trying to say though, more than you realize maybe.

I am sort of blown away by the amount of story still left. Paul, you are just now getting to the parts where other writers have picked up on Dr. Browns trail.

Have you heard from anyone else who has written about Dr. Brown? Tom Valone? William Moore? Vassilatos? A word from anybody? I just wonder how they are taking your entry into the world I guess they thought that they had pretty much become the experts in? I'd sure like to know if anyone has piped up! Victoria
kevin.b
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Post by kevin.b »

Victoria Steele,
Boys like to play with toys , and they want the best and latest
But I have some new toys, my dowsing rods, and they are showing me things and people in love are very interesting indeed.
People dont realise I am dowsing them personally, most assume I am looking for water.
Every living thing, and many forms of mass are dowsable.
Those in love are detectable.
So are pregnant women.
The field or aura around anyone appears to expand dramatically with those in love, a normal run of the mill person will exhibit a six foot diameter field, those in love expand this out to thirty feet, as do pregnant women and young children.
That field spirals into a centre line vertically up and down the body, but the heart seems to be playing a central role in this modulation of field.
Try to think back in history, think about so called sacrifice with the hearts been cut out and offered to something.
Then consider what the spiralling field is compressing into that spiral centre, SPACE.
If I lock onto a specific person, I am like a guided missile finding them, and the larger and more powerfull that field is, the easier to do this it is.
not good if you don't want to be followed or tracked.
This may sound bizzare but I know someone who can photograph this as well, the SPACE is packed with balls of energy, we attract those, we attract many more when in love, its almost like a drug.
Clever is nature, very very clever.
It litterally may not be safe for those who are involved with such a system to be in love, depends on who knows all of this , and can utilise it.
I consider Kosyrev KNEW, and taught many.
Kevin
fibonacci is king
Langley
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Post by Langley »

the things that power structures do which prevent human potential
from being fulfilled. Thats the thing for me.

And that revolves down to energy and technology.

Petrol might be a toy for the boys, but everyone uses it.

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/st ... 77,00.html

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/st ... 37,00.html

geopolitics does tend to get in the way of individual happiness. Particularly for
those patriots trying to do something about it.
Paul S.
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All A-Twitter

Post by Paul S. »

Victoria Steele wrote:Oh I am here. Just waiting for THURSDAY PAUL. But then I know all he will do is mention next thursday. Is OK. I have the patience of a turtle in a white rabbits body!
In order to spare you all any further anxiety about when the next chapter will be ready, I have added a little something to the front page of the ttbrown.com website.

This past weekend I attended an all-day gathering of the Nashville Digirati, much of which was focused on various so-called "Web 2.0" applications and services. While I was there started using a service called "Twitter" (http://twitter.com) which not only lets me post moment-by-moment updates on whatever I happen to be thinking or doing (the ultimate in digital narcissism) but also gives me the ability to link those posts to my various blogs.

So from now on, I will be updating the front of the website with the latest progress report from here in The Garret, and that should mitigate any further anxiety about the coming Thursday or when the next chapter is likely to appear.

As you can see from the latest post there, I'm just getting started on 65. 64 sorta wiped me out...

--PS
Paul Schatzkin
aka "The Perfesser"
"At some point we have to deal with the facts, not what we want to believe is true." -- Jack Bauer
flowperson
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Post by flowperson »

64's a really good read though...and, y'know that when you wipe out, you just get back on the board, paddle back out beyond the breakers, and wait for the next "biggie" to roll in. Ya' jump on and do it all over again. But then I've got a suspicion that I'm not telling you anything new.

As regards quantum tunnelling, there's a lot of information out there on quantum tunnelling, local-non-local complimentarity, quantum computing, and primitive uses of teleportation. All of these phenomena are, IMHO, just different perspectives on a universal set of truths. As I've mentioned before...Pribam and Bohm are probably out there smiling somewhere.

Digerati huh...? I'm lucky just to get up and down the stairs when I need to.

flow.... 8)
Dancing is better than marching
Victoria Steele
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confused

Post by Victoria Steele »

I had a recent pleasant conversation with a person who has been following the story as it has been presented and he sort of shocked me when he expressed something close to dismay over this last chapter!

I am not entirely sure why but it had something to do with the so called " experts" that were suddenly calling Dr. Browns development nothing but hot air". He was concerned because he told me " Now I don't know what to believe."

And I realized with a start that some of your readers Paul might just take this " shot of expert opinion "....( you KNOW what I think of EXPERTS) quite seriously and start doubting, like HShort, whether anything out there is useful and based on something valid, or just a bunch of hot air. They take the critical review to heart without seeing what was actually happening. He shook his head ..." well they were University people, they must know what they were talking about." Reaction to that censored.

Now I have been following this story closely so I am firm in my understanding of the kind of man that Dr. Brown was and the technology that he was trying to explain but suddenly you have all of these " experts" saying that it is nothing special (just iron wind ) and all of that. And I can see where this new reader would get confused and maybe not see what was actually happening. And that Dr. Brown was actually leading the wave on this upsurge of critical review on his work. And for a very good reason.

That view could get lost thosugh Paul, if you are not careful, just as it apparently was lost on this man who said he was really QUITE disappointed in the chapter. Unsettled by it. Of course I think that maybe thats a good place to be.

Reminds me a little of another friend who I got into a discussion about Browns work and suddenly he spouted off about Biefeld ..." Oh Brown didn't really even know the man, he was just riding on his coat tails. Biefelds son said that his father didn't even know Brow!". Totally nonplussed I asked him where he had heard all of that and how he had reached that conclusion and he said that Paul had written it! ( And of course that was all completely true !) ....... BUT the guy didn't finish reading the end of the chapter where it was proven by a Navy affidavid that Biefeled did in fact know of Browns work he witnessed it in operation and commented favorably on it. So that was the impression that he walked off with. And also that " Brown " stretched the truth"

Paul, Maybe I am just a worry wart but it might be that this last chapter ( maybe because it is long and complicated) might lose some of your readers to the thread of what you are trying to say and maybe they will only notice what is on the surface. Which is, I have to agree .... very discouraging. Just a point to ponder from an outside viewpoint. I worry about readers not really " getting" what is happening as my gentleman friend obviously didn't.

Anybody else feel that way? Anybody else believing that Dr. Brown was actually the failure that all of Zanesville apparently thought he was? Anybody else out there missing what Paul was actually saying? Victoria
Paul S.
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YOU'RE confused???

Post by Paul S. »

I've been thinking about this post a lot since I first read it yesterday. I believe Victoria may have planted herself firmly on the horns of the dilemma on which I have been riding for quite some time now...
Victoria Steele wrote:I had a recent pleasant conversation with a person who has been following the story as it has been presented and he sort of shocked me when he expressed something close to dismay over this last chapter!
Gee, it took him 64 chapters to reach "dismay" ? I think he should consider himself fortunate (as I consider myself grateful for his perseverance...)
I am not entirely sure why but it had something to do with the so called " experts" that were suddenly calling Dr. Browns development nothing but hot air". He was concerned because he told me " Now I don't know what to believe."
I'd like to know what exactly he believed before he got to that point.
And I realized with a start that some of your readers Paul might just take this " shot of expert opinion "....( you KNOW what I think of EXPERTS) quite seriously and start doubting, like HShort, whether anything out there is useful and based on something valid, or just a bunch of hot air. They take the critical review to heart without seeing what was actually happening. He shook his head ..." well they were University people, they must know what they were talking about." Reaction to that censored.


Gee, did it start with an "F" ?
Now I have been following this story closely so I am firm in my understanding of the kind of man that Dr. Brown was and the technology that he was trying to explain
Actually, by 1951-52, it's the technology that he was NOT "trying to explain"...
but suddenly you have all of these " experts" saying that it is nothing special (just ion wind ) and all of that. And I can see where this new reader would get confused
I certainly hope nobody is STARTING with chapter 64. That WOULD be confusing!
and maybe not see what was actually happening. And that Dr. Brown was actually leading the wave on this upsurge of critical review on his work. And for a very good reason.

That view could get lost though Paul, if you are not careful, just as it apparently was lost on this man who said he was really QUITE disappointed in the chapter. Unsettled by it. Of course I think that maybe thats a good place to be.
That's first part of this post that gets my attention, because it implies that I did not really do a very good job of whatever it was I was actually trying to do in this chapter. I think what I was trying to do was suggest that everything that is 'public' about Townsend Brown -- i.e. the whole "lifter" business that he first started demonstrating in Los Angeles in 1951 and 52 -- was a smokescreen. If your reader didn't get that, than I'd have to say this chapter has failed and I will need to spend a fair amount of time in the re-write when I get to this part.

On the other hand, it's also easy to sympathize with the reader who is confused because, frankly, it is confusing. It's confusing because we don't REALLY know so many things. Like, was there something else demonstrated at Pearl Harbor? Is that what the "mole" witnessed? Or, as somebody here first suggested -- and I tried to say in the chapter -- was the whole PH demo a 'sting' operation, intended to draw out the spy with something other than the really cool new technology?

You wrap all those questions up in a context where some "expert" is calling everything he's seen "hot air" and it's easy to see why a reader would get confused and maybe a tad discouraged at the way things are going.
Paul, Maybe I am just a worry wart but it might be that this last chapter ( maybe because it is long and complicated) might lose some of your readers to the thread of what you are trying to say and maybe they will only notice what is on the surface. Which is, I have to agree .... very discouraging. Just a point to ponder from an outside viewpoint. I worry about readers not really " getting" what is happening as my gentleman friend obviously didn't.

Actually, that's just the half of it, Victoria. Unfortunately, you have aimed your flashlight in the right direction, and the light is shining, but whatever it's pointed at... is still dark. It's like we're looking for a black hole in space -- an object so dense that not even light can escape it. And therein lies the conundrum that faces the remainder of this entire undertaking.

It dawned on me yesterday, after reading this message from Victoria, that I may have reached a point where there is not a whole lot else to say. From here out, I really have little more to relate than the day to day, week to week, year to year movements of Doctor Brown and his family as they go back and forth across the country, holding seemingly meaningless demonstrations for everybody from Edward Teller to Jim Lee. He is demonstrating a technology we pretty well know NOT to be particularly exciting, but the real story behind the curtain remains no more evident than it was in Los Angeles in 1952, or Pearl Harbor in 1950. Not a dead end, maybe, but pretty much a scenic cul-de-sac.

So, I can sympathize with your friend. Even if he missed some of the nuance, it seems to me that he's read just enough between some of the lines to arrive the same conclusion that I am now wrestling with. Whether we continue from 1953 or 1966, the "rest of the story" is just making excuses for "we really don't know..." That, or another 100 pages of 'weasel words.'
Anybody else feel that way? Anybody else believing that Dr. Brown was actually the failure that all of Zanesville apparently thought he was? Anybody else out there missing what Paul was actually saying?
I too would like to hear the answer to that question. Was there any doubt from reading Chapter 64 that it was all a masquerade?

Or maybe it's just -- like I was feeling yesterday -- that we've reached some point of exhaustion. Who really wants to read a mystery once they've arrived at the realization that the mystery is never really going to be solved?

--PS
Paul Schatzkin
aka "The Perfesser"
"At some point we have to deal with the facts, not what we want to believe is true." -- Jack Bauer
Locked