Hidden but why

[Linda Brown]

Hidden, but why is a good topic for this note, though all of you are on such a hot trail I hate to break in and maybe I am in the wrong spot. Sort of lost right now but I am putting this in here for your consideration. Recently Mr. Twigsnapper left the note that something had happened in Hawaii which was very important ... so I am following up on that . Please bear with me.

Yes, we have been here before. Its my thought that the entire Wake Island trip by President Truman was just a cover for a " demonstration" organized and initiated by this man particularly. He has been mentioned before here on the forum but it didn't stick the first time around. Maybe now we all are alittle more able to see the connections. Thanks to all of the fine posts recently I have to say that I have sure learned alot. But back to " Admirals at Pearl Harbor"

"The idea for that trip [to the Pacific for President Harry S. Truman to meet with the Commander in Chief, Far East, General of the Army Douglas MacArthur] originated with George Elsey [Administrative Assistant to the President] . . . . And, so he talked to some of the rest of us on the staff about it, we in turn talked to President Truman about it. I don't think he was ever enthusiastic about it. But we persuaded him to go. And I don't think he ever did really care to go, to tell you the truth. But he went, and George Elsey went out as the advance man to Hawaii. George had been a lieutenant in the Navy in World War II and when he went out to Hawaii he was dealing with naval people from Admiral [Arthur] Radford [Commander in Chief Pacific] on down and he would tell them what they had to do. I think he got quite a kick out of it. They did it up right."

Anybody seeing anything odd happening here, or is it just me? The" I don't think he ever did really care to go" is in reference to the public trip that this was touted to the press to be ... a trip by a President to meet General MacArthur ...... but is there a chance, hidden in plain sight, that the original and main purpose for the president to go to Hawaii was to meet with Admiral Radford? I think that this is good ground here but I am sure was so secret at the time that its going to be tough .... STILL ...." I think he got quite a kick out of it ( speaking of Elsey) ... They did it up right." INDEED.. Linda

[htmagic]

<SNIP>

There was antipathy between many Naval persons and Groves. The popular official account today is PR. One would think that the accident at Phillie would count very importantly in the released documents relating to the safety of working with plutonium and uranium, but it doesnt rate a mention in the DOE released documents that I can find. The guy who swallowed plutonium does. In point of fact, the safety of project was high on the agenda. So why no mention of the accident in relation to the methodology of Oak Ridge? And that's a point. Groves was adamant that no one would think they were subject to uncontrolled hazards. The view at the time was that U was weakly radioactive. Still an alpha emitter though, as is plutonium (etc etc). In terms of constuction at Oak Ridge, the Naval experience would have been noted. If you go through the documents on line you find scant mention of the Navy.

Uranium (U) is an alpha emitter. The trick is to keep everything safe using safe mass/safe geometry concepts. If too much fissile material (like enriched uranium, U235) is kept together, it will give off bursts of radiation beyond the alpha it normally gives off. Once the material reaches critical mass, the tiniest extra particle or drop of liquid containing U235 will set off a fission reaction. Then it is like dropping a ping pong ball onto one of 1000 mousetraps, all loaded with ping pong balls and spring loaded. A chain reaction will quickly follow...

As for radiation experiments, blacks were dosed with radiation and then health effects studied. It was a different time and different era and people weren't treated equally then (and some aren't now).

Now I work with the DoD and commonly see where one hand does not know what the other is doing. And they wonder why the efficiency is low. Throw more bodies to the solution and that is where the military budget has run amok. And maybe the Navy decided to keep quiet and the commander at the base would hope things would blow over. There were other issues going on at that time and sacrifices were made as a war was going on.

<SNIP>

The record regarding Brown revealed in Paul's book and worked on in the forums here establish that he existed in the Naval Research Lab and that he left it in the same time frame as the security clamp came down on the Naval atomic program. After the war he associated with people such as Shank, an electrostatics expert, who was employed at Los Alamos during the Manhattan Project. His specialties included electrostatic filters. My view is that machining plutonium and uranium (not the ore, but the refined metal) presents inhalation hazards at the microfine level requiring the skills of electrostatics experts to resolve. Though thats not the only problem. Esp with U which tends to oxide very rapidly when machined conventionally (bursts into "flame"). Very fine tolerances involved. Shank is interesting in that he is not mentioned in the official record, but the traces of him include a book in the library of Congress, a mention in the records of Linus Pauling, a mention in the records of the American Academy of Sciences, and the record of his role in the making of an anti bomb movie about Hiroshima. He pops his head up in the Book at significant points in the book from the post war era onward, ending with the move to Santa Monica and the disappearence of the Fan into the pitch Black at RAND.

Fan. Electrostatics expert.
<SNIP>

Langley, if you ask anyone that works with electrostatic precipitators, they do not work well on conductive materials.

As for what went on in Oak Ridge, I heard stories about the people machining uranium. It is pyrophric and can ignite when exposed to oxygen and/or high temperatures. I heard stories of the workers taking the uranium metal "derbies" (they looked like a derby hat) and slid it down the hallway, like those stones used in curling. The derbies would have a shower of sparks as the friction rubbed off material and exposed it to air. Not to mention the radioactive contamination in the building. Even though alpha particles are considered the lowest of all radiation, inside the body (and the lungs), they are ionizing in direct contact with the cells and can do quite a bit of damage.

Electrostatics, finally, is very important in the nuclear armed forces. Its how dosimeters work.

Langley, it's how one type USED to work. Typically, thermoluminescent detectors (TLD) are typically used today. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermolumi ... _Dosimeter

Yes, the TLDs only detect gamma and neutron bursts, typically associated with a criticality event, not alpha emission typically found in uranium processing. Before the workers exited the area, they would stand in a monitoring portal and stick their hands into the monitor. The monitor would then detect if alpha contamination was present on their hands and feet. In the old days, a sweep with a "pancake probe" would detect alpha radiation. And yes, it used ions in a special Gieger Mueller (GM) tube.

That instrument, like most of the others used since Curie was a girl, didnt detect the radiation per se. It detected the ions created by the radiation.

That is correct. This GM tube relied on a cascade effect from the ions/electrons. This "diode" used a 300 volt battery for the one model of Victoreen detector you provided. Anybody see a similarity to the plasma diode that is talked about elsewhere in this forum?

<SNIP>

From Defence Technical Information Centre search page:
1.
Link to Source Document
...Defense Research Committee's Radiation Laboratory at MIT, the British...newly organized facility, the Radiation Laboratory (known also as...endorsement for the vision of Gunn and his colleagues to build an...develop new kinds of light and radiation detectors. This was fitting...
http://www.nrl.navy.mil...ewsRoom/images/horizon.pdf


Chapters 5 and 6 Nate.

Langley,

Great information!
But the last link doesn't work. Please don't truncate the link to "fit it in the page" and then it should work OK.

May the FORCE be with you and have a magical day!

MagicBill

[Langley]

Hi Bill. Referencing the Smyth Report at
http://www.atomicarchive.com/Docs/Smyth ... ix_1.shtml
and APPENDIX 1. METHODS OF OBSERVING FAST PARTICLES FROM NUCLEAR REACTIONS
and it states (re alpha & beta)
"out of the molecules move in one direction and the residual positive ions in another direction. A beta particle with a million electron volts energy will produce some 18,000 ionized atoms before it is stopped completely since on the average it uses up about 60 volts energy in each
Looking at ionising radiation in the terms above is useful in understanding its uses, its good and its harm.

Bottom line : This is a concrete set of records which confirm the placement of people around Brown. Its the record - and we have seen how even it has been excluded from the popular accounts at least. The guys who died at the Uranium plant - their families didnt know how they died. One of them was granted a belated medal in the 1990s. The record is there though. Sooner or later, one day, in some archive or other of the people in Brown's circle and the circle of those contacts, there may pop up a concrete reference to Brown himself.

http://ead.lib.uchicago.edu/view.xqy?id ... CL.APS&c=a

University of Chicago Library
Special Collections Research Center
Guide to the Association of Pasadena Scientists Records
1945-1946

© 2000 University of Chicago Library
Descriptive Summary
Title:
Association of Pasadena Scientists. Records
Dates:
1945-1946(inclusive)
Size:
1 linear ft. (2 boxes)
Repository:
Special Collections Research Center
University of Chicago Library
1100 East 57th Street
Chicago, Illinois 60637
Abstract
The Association of Pasadena Scientists was founded late in 1945 as a response to the growing controversy over the use of atomic energy. Membership in the organization was open to scientists, graduate students, and technicians in the Pasadena area. The main purpose of the group was "to meet the increasingly apparent responsibility of scientists in promoting the welfare of mankind and the achievement of a stable world peace." The records of the Association of Pasadena Scientists cover the period 1945 to 1946 and include press releases, statements and correspondence of members of the Association.

Box 2 Folder: 6
Correspondence, Oak Ridge Scientists; J.R. Oppenheimer; University of Pennsylvania; Bradford Shank; Science Society of Washington
Reference in the archives of Linus Pauling.
http://osulibrary.oregonstate.edu/speci ... /11/6.html
(Google search result:November 6, 1947 - Linus Pauling Day-By-Day - Special Collections
A Documentary History of Linus Pauling, Hemoglobin and Sickle Cell .... W. Bradford Shank”) :

[Letter from Hoth to Shank 1947-11-07] [Filed under LP ...:
Card from W. Bradford Shank, U. S. C. Council on Atomic Implications to LP RE: Invites him to a “Program in the Interests of Peace,” and gives the program. (Note on the left side in blue ink: “We shall be honored if you can come. W. Bradford Shank”) [Letter from Hoth to Shank 1947-11-07] [Filed under LP Correspondence: 378.1]

Letter from Priscilla Roth, Secretary to the Department of Chemistry at Cal Tech to W. Bradford Shank RE: Says LP has asked her to give his regrets that he will not be able to attend the program on the 13th as he is leaving for England next month and is very busy at this time, and thanks him for the kind invitation. [Card from Shank to LP 1947-11-06] [Filed under LP Correspondence: 378.1]

http://www.antiqbook.com/boox/poor/11327.shtml
Shank's book.

Shank's activity in film:

http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1056173/

1. Where Will You Hide? (1948) (scientific supervisor)
Writing credits
(in alphabetical order)
Douglas Morrow script
Robert Pettengill script
W. Bradford Shank script

Cast (in credits order)
Jim Backus ... Narrator
Edmund Penney ... Narrator
Lou Marcelle ... Narrator
Produced by
Ed Levitt .... producer (as Edward Levitt)
W. Bradford Shank .... producer


2. The Beginning or the End (1947) (Shank scientific technical advisor)
Overview
Director:
Norman Taurog
Writers:
Robert Considine (story)
Frank Wead (writer)
Release Date:
19 February 1947 (USA) more
http://movies.nytimes.com/movie/84689/T ... d/overview

I mean the gang's all there. IF this contact re the bomb and anti bomb movement didnt exist
in the record, I'd say oh well what a coincidence. But its there, via Shank and Shank's apparently
robust relationship with Brown. Brown doesnt leave a footprint in the record, but Shank does.
In the context of the prior relationship with Gunn, I go WHAT?? HUH? Its a bone that wont leave me alone.

THEN you add in what Paul has written about Shank's involvement with the disc demos and I read the link to the paper Shank wrote - Thanks Mikado -
http://www.linux-host.org/energy/rose.htm#orange

""A Simplified Explanation of The Application of the Biefeld-Brown Effect* to the Solution of the Problems of Space Navigation", it was published by Mason Rose, Ph.D., President University for Social Research in 1952 - and was written by Bradford Shank a nuclear scientist, formerly of Los Alamos National Laboratory."

Im as gobsmacked as as Maltese Shitzu confronted by a T Rex bone. W. Bradford Shank was not a lightweight. He is not mentioned in the official record of the Manhattan Project. Gunn's work was sat on. He reckoned the NRL and he "Had the Hose Turned on Us".

What footprints there are of that confluence of events and persons has had someone run rake on them. All of them.

The bone might be too big for me. A personal story. The Kombi that used to take the troops from my barracks to meals was dusty one day. I fingered a ban the bomb sign onto the back of it through the dust. It didnt go down well. I had to clean toilets for 2 weeks in my own time. In my work time I charged dosimeters and read them and walked around the joint with a PDR 27A and a scintillator. What Shank was doing was a complete challenge to the Powers at the time.
And he and Brown had joint projects. Somethings going on. Thanks for bearing with me. Its not all revision. There are new connections and contexts to this.

Nate this is concrete. Weird, but concrete.

Mr Hull, what would motivate a war time member of the Los Alamos team, a member of the Pugwash movement, a member of the Association of Pasadena Scientists, a correspondent of Linus Pauling and a technical advisor, script writer and producer of seminal films of the time to write
"A Simplified Explanation of The Application of the Biefeld-Brown Effect* to the Solution of the Problems of Space Navigation" if there was nothing there at all?

Weirdly, or not, the record of Shank's activities re film and the Movement seems to end after 1948. That makes it 1949. BUT he associated with Brown most definately. A big bone to chew.

Brown Gunn Shank Pauling Teller Le May. The spread goes from gung-ho to the core of the start of the anti bomb movement. Gung Ho bombers on one side, anti-nukers on the other, and in the middle a silent silvery disc going round and round. (Be good if he'd hypnotised Le May)

If Pete Seeger came to visit, I wouldnt be surprised.

[Mikado14]

Oh Langley, you are definately hitting your stride!

If I were to issue medals, I would give you one for all that you have dumped. I hope the morsel I sent you was useful in this for I know that you have added to what I know so much so that I feel giddy and exhausted.

I lend my voice with Mr. Twigsnapper and Linda Brown...VERY good work indeed!

Just stay out of the electronics theory and remember....ignition circuits only work downunder...<g>.

Mikado

[Griffin]

Langley-

As has been said -- great work!

I would like to add that, from the perspective of my research, the Flying Saucer/UFO question was part of this whole mix of radiation questions/concerns and the anti-bomb movement. This became even more pronounced after 1949 and especially 1952. There is some evidence for this, mostly circumstantial, as my book will eventually show.

As ever,

Griffin

[kevin.b]

Griffin,
Have you, or anyone else seen what Matilda said?
http://alieninterview.org
kevin

[Langley]

Just stay out of the electronics theory and remember....ignition circuits only work downunder...<g>.

Mikado

Thank you.
Mikado that link was very important to me. Thank you. And it was from thinking about Stan Deyo too from Rose. Thanks Rose. The process might have been painful to watch but that started me reviewing (without knowing that was what I was doing) and things are a bit clearer for me.

In some of these things, the distinction between civilian and military control has been over emphasised in my mind. Its not that all. Its about people with knowledge, motivation, networks and resources and their resultant ability to achieve things. If a core group agrees, the wider networks act amphorously. Maybe. The Caroline Group was more like the core of a Movement in some respects. Traditional hierarchy charts wouldnt describe it. Could be the NRL's origins was a product of it.

ha ha. yea, fair bit of aether's flowed between the plates since then Mikado. About that much - (waves arms in the shape of a cube).

[natecull]

""A Simplified Explanation of The Application of the Biefeld-Brown Effect* to the Solution of the Problems of Space Navigation", it was published by Mason Rose, Ph.D., President University for Social Research in 1952 - and was written by Bradford Shank a nuclear scientist, formerly of Los Alamos National Laboratory."

Im as gobsmacked as as Maltese Shitzu confronted by a T Rex bone. W. Bradford Shank was not a lightweight. He is not mentioned in the official record of the Manhattan Project. Gunn's work was sat on. He reckoned the NRL and he "Had the Hose Turned on Us".

Holy guacamole. THAT Bradford Shank? He was hanging out with Mason "Saucers" Rose? He WROTE that infamous paper? I read it years ago, probably in 'The Antigravity Handbook'. Helped warp my brain to the point it is now.

Oww, my head.

(Yes well, and the devil's advocate in me pops up and says 'ok, so Shank is for real, but that paper could still have been disinformation'. But still...)

This is good work.

Brown Gunn Shank Pauling Teller Le May. The spread goes from gung-ho to the core of the start of the anti bomb movement. Gung Ho bombers on one side, anti-nukers on the other, and in the middle a silent silvery disc going round and round. (Be good if he'd hypnotised Le May)

Hmmmmm.

Wait, now I'm confusing Pauling with Pauli. I don't know my Manhattan history and really need a chart of this.

Langley, if it doesn't melt your brain too much, can you summarise:
1) How much of this is new discoveries by you as of Rose's mention of Deyo in this thread (ie, not in the first draft of Paul's book)?
2) How much of this is in the first draft of the book, but not yet in the mainstream popular/secondary Manhattan Project literature (but obviously is in primary sources)?

Thanks.

[Langley]

Holy guacamole. THAT Bradford Shank? He was hanging out with Mason "Saucers" Rose? He WROTE that infamous paper?
Oww, my head.

First time I looked at Brandford Shank was a few months ago. (one of my long term hobbies is researching a particular guy who worked at Crocker. I was doing that before I read Paul's draft or came here. Its my particular lens, focus or agenda) Paul mentions Shank and describes him as a scientist working at Los Alamos. On the net you can confirm this with a hunt looking at personal accounts. Shank's role at Los Alamos seems cloaked. Even now, even compared to guys doing really really secret stuff. Nowhere can you find what Shank actually did at Los Alamos. Well, I mean I. You might find it.


It must be pointed out that when Germany surrendered, many of the scientists working on the bomb thought Thank God for that, we wont have to use it. And were very upset when the bombs were used against cities. They had been thinking of use in terms of ships at see or purely military targets. I wont get into it. But it set groups of scientists up against what had happened and
there was a big push to let voters know what the whole deal was. Many of the scientists were investigated by the FBI and some had their careers put on hold. From this pool of expertise came the anti bomb movement. Have a look at that for context. OK the war ended. The oaths of secrecy still held. But they were urgently seeking to advise the public. This is my freehand description of what's on the historical record. A short way of reading an authorative account is to google Linus Pauling and his wife. Ava. Pauling refused to take part in the bomb project. But his was involved in the medical use of fission products. In a scientific and administrative manner. He was on the panel appointed by Groves to enable the medical use of fission products prior to the declassication of the MED documents as they pertained to nuclear medicine. At that point I can refer to what DEyo says about that Doctor and X ray clinic in Texas in a specific context. See, Deyo is pointing to a core group. Re reading Deyo as triggered by Rose putting up the link to Deyo's Halo site. (Not this bulk spill of ASCII is Rose's fault. Its mine.Sorry)
The complication was that the fission product list stayed secret for quite a while. It was a route to re-engineering the bomb. (the fission inventory varies between types of bombs so you could monitor your friends and foes by studying the fallout from their bombs) So the point is, track Deyo's pointer back and you get to Pauling. Follow Bradford Shanks network back and you get to Pauling. Not surprising in itself, but what is the go here?

On Paul's mention of Shank in his book, I googled Shank. And Lo, the record of his films came up. I immediately thought "Pugwash!" and everyone went "Huh?" The international anti bomb movement formed from a meeting called the Pugwash Conference. It consisted of scientists and others, Mainly scientists.

The pro openness and anti bomb movement can be traced to Einstien. His activities in the matter resulted in a network of scientists who worked with him and others. The inner circle - to roughly describe the ones who knew the most about the nature of the bomb - included Pauling. Ava said to him, well, watcha you gonna do about it? And Pauling started moving on informing the public. Shanks Films also educated the public. Pauling used a church and its congregation to get the word out. Have mental block on what that church is called at the moment. It is a rational sort of church.

In Paul's book it is recorded that Brown set up a Radiation Research Lab in or near Los Angeles. With Shank. Paul includes "machinist" to describe Shank's skills. In the historical record, Shank is not addressed as Doctor, just Mister. But he's a member of a Pasadena group of scientists. And a write up of him by a film flyer describes him as a scientist.

I think others raised Shank's expertise in Electrostatics and filters. Doesnt matter who anyway. But his book on filters is out there. Regardless of objections raised to my ponderings on the issue, filters are important in regard to bomb programs. A bleeding obvious one is the wing tip cannister bomb cloud chase planes have in their wing tips. And filters used for volumetric monitoring etc etc . What Shank did at Los Alamos I dont know. I dont know anyone who does. He might have been the caterer but I dont think so.

So he comes out of Los Alamos and there his is, in the Pauling archives, involved in the organising of Peace (read anti bomb) meetings - basically information dissemination events and occassions aimed at mustering voter support for opposition to the Manhattan Project/AEC agenda in the post war era. Now, Pauling deliberately stayed clear of the bomb project during the war. But he was consulted. And Pauling got hauled before the House UnAmerican Activities thing yet Pauling was not a signatory or a subordinate to Groves or Stimson during the war. Yet there is Shank organising, involved in the making of films, doing "radiation research" with Brown, with apparent impunity. Even though, unlike Pauling, Shank was in the program during the war.

I found it and find it "veeery intereesting" Its funny peculiar. Brown was friends with Shank, a guy who was a member of a group of scientists dedicated to challenging the authorities on the dissemination of knowledge about the bomb and its effects. In order to put it on the political agenda to stop 1. National bomb stockpiles not under direct UN control 2. Atomic testing.

The same Brown who Teller arranged to attend the Argus high altitude nuke tests in the South Atlantic by giving him a berth aboard an attending naval vessel. Paul reports this in his book draft. Interesting to speculate as to the scientific reasons why, more compelling to ponder science and society and the control of information.

After the Reds, the next biggest risk to democracy, according to the pro nuke testers, was the anti bomb movement. In the beginning the opposition didnt come from people who drove VWs and wore sandals. It came from the only people who had much of a clue. The scientists were the first protesters. The Movement of the lay people initially comprised and was moved by mainly women, who listened and understood the scientists. The guys, by and large stayed in their boxes. Till later. The magic words there were "Fallout" and "Milk". (And that takes me directly to my guy and Crocker and 1939 but that's another story) (except it how they knew before the event what would happen to the milk supply and to nursing mums).

So why take Shank's good buddy Brown into the bowels of the bomb tests? The only reason why I cant track Brown's own role in the Movement is because the record doesnt exist in any shape or form. But we know what Shank was basically doing. He was networking with Pauling and informing the public.

In those days one's associations determined one's access. Not with Brown it didnt. Odd. Or rather, that's the way it went with him.

Have a look at this:
http://nobelprize.org/nobel_prizes/peac ... press.html

The tenor of the times. Then this
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emergency_ ... Scientists

"The Emergency Committee of Atomic Scientists (ECAS) was founded by Albert Einstein and Leó Szilárd in 1946. Its aims were to warn the public of the dangers associated with the development of nuclear weapons, promote the peaceful use of nuclear energy, and ultimately work towards world peace, which was seen as the only way that nuclear weapons would not be used again.

The Committee was established in the wake of the "Szilárd petition" (1945) to United States president Harry S. Truman opposing the use of the atomic bomb on moral grounds, which was signed by 68 scientists who had worked on the Manhattan Project. A majority of scientists working on the Manhattan Project did not know entirely what they were creating at the time."


Now, these guys were saying to the American people that there was an emergency going on.

Brown Shank Pauling. Look at the founding scientists of the Emergency committee - the first organised anti bomb and anti bomb testing body:

* Albert Einstein Chairman
* Harold C. Urey Vice-Chairman
* Hans Bethe
* T.R. Hogness
* Philip Morse
* Linus Pauling
* Leó Szilárd
* Victor Weisskopf

Half the members had worked directly on the Manhattan Project and all had been indirectly involved or consulted on the production of the first atomic bomb.

As far as Teller and Liddy and the other bombers were concerned that org was public enemy no 2.

Yet, Bradford Shank, who appears to qualify for membership, as a scientist who had worked directly on the Manhattan Project, and by his film work and organising work, as an associate of Brown, would appear to disqualify Brown, by association, from the clearance needed to participate in the US post war atomic weapons programme.

Yet there he was, on a Naval vessel, in the South Atlantic, watching atomic bomb plasma balls in the upper atmosphere. What, if anything, Brown shared with Shank or any other associates of , and the members of the Emergency Committe is not known to me.

It wasnt long before Pauling mentioned the fact that certain fission products were found in the milk. Of any species. And the Mum's of America basically started a riot.

That continues today. Quietly. Trust noone. The truth is out there. And they aint gonna tell you.

Bad look, clubbing and tear gassing Mums. So it all became very subtle.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women_Strike_for_Peace (The chronology of events and the formation of the actual social forces are two different things, you can jump back and forth)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federation ... Scientists
"Federation of American Scientists (FAS)[1] is a non-profit organization formed in 1945 by scientists from the Manhattan Project who felt that scientists, engineers and other innovators had an ethical obligation to bring their knowledge and experience to bear on critical national decisions. Their first projects focused on controlling nuclear weapons and research on civilian nuclear power, issues that remain prominent to FAS today.

Endorsed by 68 Nobel Laureates[2] in chemistry, economics, medicine and physics, FAS now addresses a range of issues where science and technology analysis is critical. FAS members build on a long history of insisting that rational, evidence-based arguments form the basis of national policy."

Still there:
http://www.fas.org/

Now, in that context, given the drivers and imperatives, what compelled Shank to go quietly with Brown - he was part of the show regarding the disc desmonstrations as reported in the Book. The trail of his public activities relating to the bomb stopped early. 1949.


The FBI was kept busy watching the scientists back then.

http://www.paperlessarchives.com/einstein.html

"ALBERT EINSTEIN FBI FILES

1535 pages of files copied from FBI Headquarters in Washington, D.C., and archived on CD-ROM covering Albert Einstein. Files contain approximately 700 narrative pages from the investigations conducted by the FBI regarding the famous physicist. From the 1930's until his death, the FBI conducted a number of investigations to determine whether Einstein was a threat to the United States.

Files chronicle attempts by non-government organizations in the U.S. to keep Einstein out and rumors of attempts by the Soviet Union to get him move there, instead of United States. Files show the Immigration and Naturalization Service investigated the possible revoking of Einstein's citizenship in 1951, due to suspicion that his secretary and housekeeper was a Soviet agent."

Yea, "they" didnt like the Movement much.

http://foia.fbi.gov/foiaindex/einstein.htm
"Albert Einstein

1,427 pages

An investigation was conducted by the FBI regarding the famous physicist because of his affiliation with the Communist Party. Einstein was a member, sponsor, or affiliated with thirty-four communist fronts between 1937 and 1954. He also served as honorary chairman for three communist organizations."

Well, that's their story, and they are sticking to it. Apparently.

* Albert Einstein Chairman
* Harold C. Urey Vice-Chairman
* Hans Bethe
* T.R. Hogness
* Philip Morse
* Linus Pauling
* Leó Szilárd
* Victor Weisskopf

Kittens all round. The people listed above are heroes of the Republic. IMO.

Paul devotes a lot of interesting time in the draft on the FBI and its activities re TT Brown.

It just may be though that all the above is a mere description of the smokescreen used to conceal and protect Brown's programme. Whatever that was. It could be that Brown and Shank were not operating within the paradigm of their times. They may have been above the debate as far as what they were doing was concerned. Undoubtably they had their views. Shank's are pretty clear. The best cover is one that consists of a legitimate interest. He stamped his credentials really on the record. They used the paradigm of the times to place themselves within that social construct while engaged in something completely different.

anyhow, the record of that epoch confirms relationships and actions. The incongruence of the Shank description of the BB effect is a marker of significance. Somehow.

But, its hard to ignore that in that epoch most people engaged in social good were suspected of being Communist and were considered a threat to National Security. And were honoured by the existence of their FBI file.

Could be that Shank was Caroline.

[Linda Brown]

Considering what the world is like now, this letter is really pretty interesting.

http://www.eisenhowermemorial.org/presi ... s/1302.cfm

I put it up here because of a certain reference

T"his letter may have been prompted by a February 10 National Security Council discussion of U.S. technical aid for the development of nuclear reactors abroad. See also the report of a speech by Floyd Odlum on future commercial uses of uranium (NSC meeting minutes, Feb. 11, 1955, AWF/NSC; Allen to Schulz, Feb. 20, 1955, AWF/N, Allen Corr.). A portion of the letter with Eisenhower's handwritten changes is in AWF/Drafts."

Same Odlum as the host of the April 15, 1967 meeting. Don't know where that little bit of information might go, I just thought it interesting. Linda

[htmagic]

Considering what the world is like now, this letter is really pretty interesting.

http://www.eisenhowermemorial.org/presi ... s/1302.cfm

I put it up here because of a certain reference

T"his letter may have been prompted by a February 10 National Security Council discussion of U.S. technical aid for the development of nuclear reactors abroad. See also the report of a speech by Floyd Odlum on future commercial uses of uranium (NSC meeting minutes, Feb. 11, 1955, AWF/NSC; Allen to Schulz, Feb. 20, 1955, AWF/N, Allen Corr.). A portion of the letter with Eisenhower's handwritten changes is in AWF/Drafts."

Same Odlum as the host of the April 15, 1967 meeting. Don't know where that little bit of information might go, I just thought it interesting. Linda

Linda,

Interesting link, thanks for that.

In 1923, Odlum, a friend, and their wives pooled a total of $39,600 and formed the United States Company to speculate in purchases of utilities and general securities. Within two years, the company's net assets had increased 17 fold to nearly $700,000 [2]. In 1928, Odlum incorporated Atlas Utilities Company to take over the common stock of his other company.

<SNIP>
Besides Atlas Corporation, he had a major stake in RKO Studios, Convair, Northeast Airlines, Bonwit Teller, among other businesses, and was associated in aviation business with the well-known financier George Newell Armsby. His association with Armsby provided a link to the Armsby's and Cowdin's enterprise Transcontinental Air Transport, Inc.

<SNIP>
Odlum was first married (in 1915) to Hortense McQuarrie, first woman department store head; his second wife was aviatrix Jackie Cochran. Odlum died in 1976 at the age of 84.

Remember the women!
Odlum's second wife was an aviatrix. There are less women pilots than men.
She would know the aviation business as she was a pilot and couldn't be BS'ed.
Maybe that's why Fred Odlum was involved in the aviation business.

MagicBill

[natecull]

It just may be though that all the above is a mere description of the smokescreen used to conceal and protect Brown's programme. Whatever that was. It could be that Brown and Shank were not operating within the paradigm of their times. They may have been above the debate as far as what they were doing was concerned. Undoubtably they had their views. Shank's are pretty clear. The best cover is one that consists of a legitimate interest. He stamped his credentials really on the record. They used the paradigm of the times to place themselves within that social construct while engaged in something completely different.

anyhow, the record of that epoch confirms relationships and actions. The incongruence of the Shank description of the BB effect is a marker of significance. Somehow.

But, its hard to ignore that in that epoch most people engaged in social good were suspected of being Communist and were considered a threat to National Security. And were honoured by the existence of their FBI file.

Could be that Shank was Caroline.

It certainly looks very bizarre how he and Brown could be so close to the core of the anti-bomb movement and yet Brown gets clearance to Argus. 'A deeper draft vessel' indeed.

Teller and Einstein, sittin' in a tree. F-I-S-S-I-O-N-I-N-G.

Thank you so much for posting all this ASCII, it's very enlightening.

Something that jumped at me looking at the Wikipedia for Linus Pauling. May be completely unrelated:

On September 16, 1952, Pauling opened a new research notebook with these words "I have decided to attack the problem of the structure of nuclei."[39] On October 15, 1965, Pauling published his Close-Packed Spheron Model of the atomic nucleus in two well respected journals, Science, and Proc. Natl. Acad. Sci..[40] For nearly three decades, until his death in 1994, Pauling published numerous papers on his spheron cluster model.[41][42][43][44][45][46]

Few modern text books on nuclear physics discuss the Pauling Spheron Model of the Atomic Nucleus, yet it provides a unique perspective, well published in the leading journals of science, on how fundamental "clusters of nucleons" can form shell structure in agreement with recognized theory of quantum mechanics. Pauling was well versed in quantum mechanics; he co-authored one of the first textbooks on the subject, Introduction to Quantum Mechanics with Applications to Chemistry. In a 2006 review of models of atomic nuclei, Norman D. Cook said of the Pauling Spheron Model: "…the model leads to a rather common-sense molecular build-up of nuclei and has an internal logic that is hard to deny…however…nuclear theorists have not elaborated on the idea of nucleon spherons, and Pauling's model has not entered mainstream nuclear theory."[47] The 1965 Pauling Spheron Model of the atomic nucleus has not been replaced by a better model, but has simply been ignored.[citation needed]

The Pauling spheron nucleon clusters include the deuteron[NP], helion [PNP], and triton [NPN]. Even-even nuclei were described as being composed of clusters of alpha particles, as has often been done for light nuclei. He made an effort to derive the shell structure of nuclei from the Platonic solids rather than starting from an independent particle model as in the usual shell model. It was sometimes said at that time that this work received more attention than it would have if it had been done by a less famous person, but more likely Pauling was taking a unique approach to understanding the relatively new discovery in the late 1940s of Maria Goeppert-Mayer of structure within the nucleus.

Didn't learn *that* in high school! A 'common-sense' approach to physics starting from Platonic solids, hmm? Now that sounds very much like Bucky Fuller's way of things.

Might be unrelated, I haven't checked it out (still struggling through Synergetics). Just seemed interesting. Did he have a similar kind of altered view of the world perhaps?

Edit: I'm also intrigued by Cyrus Eaton http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyrus_Eaton , the Canadian businessman who hosted Pugwash. Sounds like a bit of a Stephenson/Eldridge type in the sense of potentially being an indepent operator, though the Wikipedia entry doesn't mention any military links and doesn't say much about his activities from the 30s to the 50s.

But at least from 1952, he's right there at the core of that emerging scientific anti-bomb network, and he gets both a Nobel and a Lenin Peace Prize. And he has plenty of money and industrial clout.

[Langley]

"thing that jumped at me looking at the Wikipedia for Linus Pauling. May be completely unrelated:

On September 16, 1952, Pauling opened a new research notebook with these words "I have decided to attack the problem of the structure of nuclei."

Few modern text books on nuclear physics discuss the Pauling Spheron Model of the Atomic Nucleus

Edit: I'm also intrigued by Cyrus Eaton http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyrus_Eaton , .

Fascinating. Ill save my vague thoughts on the permutations of the position of Brown in it all.
But its all networky and unstructured - its a way of thinking. Humanism.

On the science of Pauling - Backtracking a bit. Things were more advanced prior to World War 2 than what we may think. What emerged from World War 2 was a presentation of the nature of things as if that knowledge was originated from within the Manhattan Project. It wasnt. A lot pre dated 1942. But it emerged at least in the public presentation as a complete system courtesy of that one project. The models of reality which enabled the goals of the Manhattan Project fulfilled rested on the very rapid progress which had occurred basically within a fifty period, rapidly accelerating as the years ticked by. Bohr and Mietzner's water drop model of fission enabled Mietzner to tell Hahn he had achieved fission.

eg On Bohr
http://www.phy.hr/~dpaar/fizicari/xbohr.html
"He pondered the results of his work at Manchester and in 1913 published a crucial trilogy of papers that made a deep impression on Albert Einstein and other scientists. Especially astonishing was that Bohr, in his explanation of atomic structure, departed from classical mechanics and made use of Planck's constant and the quantum theory. The result was a model of the atom in which radiation was emitted only when an electron jumped from one quantum orbit to another. The frequency of the light emitted by the atom was thus not related to any frequency in the atom; rather, it was connected with the difference between two energy levels within the atom. At the age of 28, Bohr had reached the summit of his career with his theory of the atom.

In 1916, Bohr was appointed professor of theoretical physics at the University of Copenhagen, and in 1922 he was awarded the Nobel Prize for physics. In the following decades he continued to work on the implications of his theory, notably putting an earlier knowledge of surface tension to use in his "droplet model" of the nucleus, which treats the nucleus as if it were a water droplet held together by its surface tension."

http://www.sdsc.edu/ScienceWomen/meitner.html
"On November 13, 1938, Hahn met secretly with Meitner in Copenhagen. At her suggestion, Hahn and Strassmann performed further tests on a uranium product they thought was radium. When they found that it was in fact barium, they published their results in Naturwissenschaften (January 6, 1939). Simultaneously, Meitner and Frisch explained (and named) nuclear fission, using Bohr's "liquid drop" model of the nucleus; their paper appeared in Nature (February 11, 1939). The proof of fission required Meitner's and Frisch's physical insight as much as the chemical findings of Hahn and Strassmann.

But the separation of the former collaborators and Lise's scientific and actual exile led to the Nobel committee's failure to understand her part in the work. Later Hahn rationalized her exclusion and others buried her role ever deeper. The Nobel "mistake," never acknowledged, was partly rectified in 1966, when Hahn, Meitner, and Strassmann were awarded the U.S. Fermi Prize."

Spheron forum posts:
http://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=86337
Rade

Rade is Offline:
Posts: 1,110

Linus Pauling Close-Packed Spheron Model
Does anyone in this forum known when the Linus Pauling Close-Packed Spheron Model of the atomic nucleus was falsified as being an impossible view of how quantum mechanics can be used to describe the nucleus ? It was first published in 1965 in journals Science and Proc. Nat. Acad. Sci. I cannot find a single textbook on nuclear physics that mentions the Pauling Spheron model--which is strange because the model is in complete agreement with theory of quantum mechanics--of which Pauling was an expert.
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To Spin Network: Thank you for the interest. At another location I have posted internet links to most of the above papers: http://www.brightsenmodel.phoenixrising-web.net
--they are from Linus Pauling's personal research notebooks--see this link: http://osulibrary.orst.edu/specialcollections/rnb/ --a great read of how a genius mind works on a day-to-day basis.
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Rade

Rade
Posts: 1,110

One last try with this question. Perhaps there is not widespread knowledge of the papers by Pauling on the structure of the atomic nucleus. I have compiled a large number of them, which I provide below. Pauling held that the proton and neutron are NOT independent particles, but always exist as clusters. He also held that this hypothesis was in complete agreement with quantum mechanics. He published on this hypothesis until just before his death (1969 - 1994).

So, my question, does anyone know when in the history of nuclear physics the Pauling Close-Packed Spheron Model was falsified (e.g., can you cite the papers so that I can read them) ? Thanks.

Serbian.matematika is Offline:
Hey Rade, I like your posts. Dear bro, don't give up!"

"Pauling held that the proton and neutron are NOT independent particles, but always exist as clusters."
That's hot Nate.

Let's scratch that itch.



β+ decay (positron emission)

Main article: Beta decay

Unstable atomic nuclei with an excess of protons may undergo β+ decay, also called inverse beta decay, where a proton is converted into a neutron, a positron and an electron-type neutrino:

p → n + e+ + νe

Beta plus decay can only happen inside nuclei when the absolute value of the binding energy of the daughter nucleus is higher than that of the mother nucleus.

Inverse beta decay is one of the steps in nuclear fusion processes that produce energy inside stars.

Wki at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beta_particle


"In particle physics, the strong interaction, or strong force, or color force, holds quarks and gluons together to form protons and neutrons.

The strong interaction is one of the four fundamental interactions, along with gravitation, the electromagnetic force and the weak interaction. Of the four fundamental forces, the strong interaction is the most powerful.

The strong force is thought to be mediated by gluons, acting upon quarks, antiquarks, and the gluons themselves. This is detailed in the theory of quantum chromodynamics (QCD)."

"In particle physics, gluons (glue and the suffix -on) are elementary particles that cause quarks to interact, and are indirectly responsible for the binding of protons and neutrons together in atomic nuclei.

In technical terms, they are vector gauge bosons that mediate strong color charge interactions of quarks in quantum chromodynamics (QCD). Unlike the neutral photon of quantum electrodynamics (QED), gluons themselves participate in strong interactions. The gluon has the ability to do this as it carries the color charge and so interacts with itself, making QCD significantly harder to analyze than QED." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gluon

He's looking at the nature of the fundamental forces. Maybe. Anyway the sociological response is to look the other way. Dont know who the movers and shakers in that were.

Somewhere in the nucleus is a contact or interaction point with the ZPE field. Let's suppose.
I wonder what conceptual relationship there is between Bohr's Water drop model and Pauling's
Spheron.

[FM No Static At All]

Messrs Langley and Cull,
Check out:

http://search.oregonstate.edu/web/index ... keywords=3

Also, http://osulibrary.oregonstate.edu/speci ... index.html

Where you will find a "Special Collections" of notebooks of Linus Pauling (all are copyright restricted and all rights reserved) so I hope I am not infringing by placing the previous images here.

You may find what it is you are looking for here. Pauling was at Oregon State for a while and they have an extensive "library" of his work. I believe they even have a (non-critical) reactor here also for educational purposes only.

Oh and one other thing, If you check out Dr. Aspden's work, regarding his theory of the aether and proton creation, he explains how those "Platonic Solids" may be a part of the cubic lattice structure of the aether or fine structure of space. Like Dr. Brown, he is looking at gravity as a push from the electrostatic nature of the aether.

[Griffin]

Langley-

I didn’t go “huh?” back then. This has all made great sense to me, since it’s what I’m dealing with from another angle. Your ferreting out (or “rabbiting” out) of all this information has been most impressive and also helpful.

A sign of the times changing -- not only the first black presidential candidate, but the first to take a clear anti-nuke stance.

In a Yahoo! News – Reuters online item today, Barack Obama declared his intent to eliminate nuclear weapons if elected:

The Democratic presidential candidate said if elected he would make eliminating nuclear weapons a central part of his security strategy.
"It's time to send a clear message to the world: America seeks a world with no nuclear weapons," he said.

Given that they’ve spent so much time here in America since at least WWII, the Visitants should be eligible for citizenship and voting rights. They would likely go for Obama on the basis of this issue <g>. However, they beat him in sending a clear message to the world.

As ever, likewise for a nuclear-free world,

Griffin