Hidden but why

A place to engage extended discussions of things that come up on the ttbrown.com website. Anything goes here, as long as it's somehow pertinent to the subject(s) at hand.
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natecull
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Re: Hidden but why

Post by natecull »

Langley wrote: Platteville

One of the earliest ionospheric heating facilities was at Platteville, Colorado, capable of radiating about 100 MW ERP. Early experiments included HF heater induced air-glow, heater-induced spread F, wide band heater-induced absorption, and heater-created field-aligned ionization. The Platteville heater operated from 1968 - 1984.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_Frequ ... ch_Program

Once the high altitude nuke tests were under threat, Teller looked for an alternate.
Right. My reading of the ionosphere heating project is that it was fallout (so to speak) from STARFISH PRIME which produced very unexpected ionospheric reactions (and introduced the term 'EMP' to the world) and revealed that the ionosphere was an active environment. One that's still being investigated today, so presumably it's still not fully understood.

The Wikipedia entry http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starfish_Prime is pretty scary - I had no idea there were so many failed high altitude nuke/Thor rocket combinations with nuclear contamination of the launch site. Probably nothing compared to the actual nuke explosions themselves, but still... interesting times.

What's the Platteville connection though?
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Re: Hidden but why

Post by Langley »

natecull wrote:
Langley wrote: Platteville

Right. My reading of the ionosphere heating project is that it was fallout (so to speak) from STARFISH PRIME which produced very unexpected ionospheric reactions (and introduced the term 'EMP' to the world) and revealed that the ionosphere was an active environment. One that's still being investigated today, so presumably it's still not fully understood.

The Wikipedia entry http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starfish_Prime is pretty scary - I had no idea there were so many failed high altitude nuke/Thor rocket combinations with nuclear contamination of the launch site. Probably nothing compared to the actual nuke explosions themselves, but still... interesting times.

What's the Platteville connection though?
I have a headache Nate, (really). One of the primary goals was disabling incoming missiles. EMP. (other effects as well). I put a heap up earlier in forums earlier. Will do a search. See if you can find the Tech report on Starfish Prime and read about the earth currents, etc It plugs into OHR and other stuff as well I think. Whether a highly excitied D layer would zap a soviet missile guidance system via RF heating - dont ask me. But that's the primary connection I think. Oh my head. I gonna lie down.

Heres the tech report for starfish prime. Note deletions. Note emp effects - aim - missile shield. Platteville my opinion based on what is on net - no personal knowledge - is that one aim was missile defence and possibly OHR early warning. Those Norad guys you mention - they were at Platteville?

stinet.dtic.mil/oai/oai?verb=getRecord&metadataPrefix=html&identifier=ADA955411

A 'Quick Look' at the Technical Results of Starfish Prime ...
Title : A 'Quick Look' at the Technical Results of Starfish Prime. Sanitized Version ... Report Date : AUG 1962. Pagination or Media Count : 112
Are any of the aims of starfish prime the same aims as the Rf heaters? I think so.
Gotta go. My head is pounding. Painful to even look at my Mac its that bad.
twigsnapper
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Re: Hidden but why

Post by twigsnapper »

Langley,

Let your head hurt if it wants. Take the break that you need, One helluva job here. Just wanted you to know that, direct from me. Later, find another head in a drawer somewhere the way Paul S does and come back again because what you are doing here is vital.

And thats great advice to the rest of you who have joined this journey. If it becomes just too much .... walk away for the time you need. This is a long distance situation, not a sprint..... and finishing together means everything.

AM.You wondered why it was that you somehow would be funneled information about Mr. Kitselman that perhaps even his family wouldn't have. Perhaps I gave you the impression that his daughters knew less than they thought they knew about the man and that seems inconcievable. But fathers don't tell their daughters everything and for very good reasons. Most of of stemming out of a loving protection. And in Beaus case, where Dr. Brown had the advantage, he had several daughters who all really cared about being " Daddys girl".

And as for the " Vega Curve" papers. late 1943, Yes, a distinct meaning. At just about the same time Dr. Brown was typing out the words " Daughter, these words are as true as the rain on the window above your head." He could not put the information down any other way than in the form of some sort of advice laden science fiction which he knew later would be recognized for what it was. But he had only one daughter. ( Though at the time those words were chicken pecked out on that old Royal she was not even concieved yet) Imagine at the time the situation Beau might have been in, and some of the words in those ROW papers are not Dr. Browns alone.

Important here to get back to the families now and talk to the children. They will not know a whole lot but they will hold bits and pieces of shattered glass that may just put an amazing pattern on the floor if put together now. Sarbacher, Shank, Kitselman especially. One has to wonder why these children have the continuing interests that the exhibit?

And for as much trouble as I cause by using the occasional and timely misdirection I think that you AM have benefitted from knowing about the Cornillon/ Bergier connection, even when some do not see it, or are not meant to see it yet. Follow the genetics of the thing. twigsnapper
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Re: Hidden but why

Post by Mikado14 »

AM2 wrote:

After some time had elapsed, the two went to get something to eat. When they came back a few hours later, it was observed that a black 'something' like a slit or opening had appeared at the target area.

Two coils were wound on cones.


The apices of these conical coils were pointed towards each other and power was applied so that bucking fields were created by the collision of opposite magnetic fields. Very fine iron filings were dropped into the gap between the coils and a levitating sphere was produced.

When the coils were slowly pulled apart, an oval followed by a sphere surrounded by a disk appeared. When Peter arrived home, he tried this experiment and reported that when power was turned on, nearly eveyone in the building complained of feeling nauseous or queasy. He explained that an experiment was going on so that everyone would understand what was happening.

After about an hour, the very clear and cloudless sky began to suddenly boil up and a major thunderstorm ensued. Power was removed from the coils and the storm dissipated as fast as it had arisen??? Weird stuff no doubt and subject to duplication by others if we all share our information......
Conical coils and then the "two sets of dual and magnetically-sexed coils" along with "an extremely efficient new type of radar device" that you mentioned Mr. Cull. My, my, my, what was Mr. Russell doing?
AM
You ended by asking a question.....What was he doing?

And here is another question for you, do you know what "magnetically sexed" means?

You really don't want to duplicate this without controls, trust me. You will get burnt. If you must follow this, one should be fixed.

Mikado
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twigsnapper
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Re: Hidden but why

Post by twigsnapper »

And Nate,

"So: if there's technology based on Townsend Brown principles that was deployed in the 1940s (as opposed to just theorised about and never successfully built) I can't see it falling into that category of device. It would have to be something very small and subtle, something that didn't appreciably change the balance of power, something that didn't make nuclear weapons obsolete - or something not fully predictable or controllable by us.

Or something not actually *owned* by us at all.natecull
Space Cadet

An excellent and thoughtful overview. All that. And more. You overlook that the development could have been in concert with the " protection" of another " earthborn entity" instead of having mainly to do with the enlightenment of the humans in " control" at the time. A progragm of protection and love so subtle and elegant that it still has not been recognized because you see it was not turned to the games the humans were playing. It served its purpose for that time. Linda Brown once described the situation as finding yourself being responsible for a fawn that you have discovered hidden in a deep wood. What do you do to protect it?

Good work Nate. Save your notes as Linda would say. twigsnapper
natecull
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Re: Hidden but why

Post by natecull »

Thanks for this, Langley.

An interesting effect I hadn't realised (though I have the vague memory I may have heard it quoted as a child, as a random scary statistic, in the middle of the 1980s Pacific anti-nuclear campaign) was that synchrotron radiation after the Starfish Prime shot persisted for days afterwards! Starting from 30 minutes, and after 100 hours 'appeared to have decreased 20 percent'. Essentially it turned the entire Earth into a giant cyclotron: accelerated electrons (beta particles) got trapped in the atmosphere, or magnetic field lines or something, continuing to circumnavigate the globe. Holy moly.

I'm sure I had this scary feeling toward 'synchrotron radiation', not knowing what it was, until I grew older and forgot about this.

Dunno if they expected that or not. They were presumably pretty quick to pinpoint it, so I guess they must have been, though the report says on p 103:
For Starfish, detailed predictions of synchrotron radiation were not made. The long lifetimes clearly imply that injection of betas occurred well above detonation altitude.
That must have been an interesting question (how did the betas get so high?) but dumping relativistic particles into the ionosphere doesn't seem (at least to this layman) like a thing that could be easily duplicated with mere radio-frequency heaters like Platteville and HAARP, so maybe that particular line of research tapered out after the end of atmospheric testing? Or maybe it was a bit too scary?

(I don't buy most of the HAARP paranoia, but it does seem from cursory browsing of Wikipedia that the ionosphere is an interesting environment, almost 'alive' in its way. Cascading ripple effects and such. Possibly a lot can be learned with just a little subtle probing.)
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twigsnapper
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Re: Hidden but why

Post by twigsnapper »

And Mr. Mikado,

Remember too that when you are dealing with something unknown even expected results can come in unknown forms. Going for dinner and coming back later after thinking that " nothing happened" can yeild interesting results. Perhaps all it is meant to do is turn someones dash light on. <g> twigsnapper
Mikado14
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Re: Hidden but why

Post by Mikado14 »

twigsnapper wrote: And as for the " Vega Curve" papers. late 1943, Yes, a distinct meaning. At just about the same time Dr. Brown was typing out the words " Daughter, these words are as true as the rain on the window above your head." He could not put the information down any other way than in the form of some sort of advice laden science fiction which he knew later would be recognized for what it was. But he had only one daughter. ( Though at the time those words were chicken pecked out on that old Royal she was not even concieved yet) Imagine at the time the situation Beau might have been in, and some of the words in those ROW papers are not Dr. Browns alone.
Curious here, "Vega" as in Vega Aircraft?

Mikado
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natecull
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Re: Hidden but why

Post by natecull »

Mikado14 wrote: And here is another question for you, do you know what "magnetically sexed" means?
Since to Russell, 'sex' means a basic and pervasive physical orientation toward matched pairs of opposites, something like 'polarity' or 'complementarity', I imagine on a naive reading 'magnetically sexed' would mean 'each of the two opposing coils having an equal and opposite carefully matched magnetic field'.

But I'm not entirely sure that by 'magnetic' he necessarily means what mainstream science would call magnetism, or if he means something subtly different, possibly closer to 'electromagnetic'.

That description of a thundercloud sounds like something out of Wilhelm Reich's orgone accumulator, though, and I find it a bit startling. I like Russell a lot more than I like Reich.
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Re: Hidden but why

Post by Mikado14 »

natecull wrote:
Mikado14 wrote: And here is another question for you, do you know what "magnetically sexed" means?
Since to Russell, 'sex' means a basic and pervasive physical orientation toward matched pairs of opposites, something like 'polarity' or 'complementarity', I imagine on a naive reading 'magnetically sexed' would mean 'each of the two opposing coils having an equal and opposite carefully matched magnetic field'.

But I'm not entirely sure that by 'magnetic' he necessarily means what mainstream science would call magnetism, or if he means something subtly different, possibly closer to 'electromagnetic'.

That description of a thundercloud sounds like something out of Wilhelm Reich's orgone accumulator, though, and I find it a bit startling. I like Russell a lot more than I like Reich.
I appreciate your answer Mr. natecull but I was really asking Mr. AM. I understand it and I wanted to see if he knew what it meant based upon the way he ended his post. Let me clarify one item that you have mentioned. A coil produces a magnetic field, as I know you understand, and that magnetic field has a north and south. The field is produced by the current, again I know that you understand this, and that field is independent but also dependent upon the current flow. It should be remembered, as I know you understand this as well, that the magnetic field even though created by the current flow, will have characteristics unique to the field independent from the current. Both different and yet the same.


Thanks for the reply anyway!

Mikado


******edit*****

AM, don't forget the triangle. And here is something for a chuckle.....don't be drinking your juice.

This picture is for you and one other.

Image
Last edited by Mikado14 on Fri Jun 27, 2008 2:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy
Langley
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Re: Hidden but why

Post by Langley »

natecull wrote:Thanks for this, Langley.

An interesting effect I hadn't realised (though I have the vague memory I may have heard it quoted as a child, They were presumably pretty quick to pinpoint it, so I guess they must have been, though the report says on p 103:
For Starfish, detailed predictions of synchrotron radiation were not made. The long lifetimes clearly imply that injection of betas occurred well above detonation altitude.
That must have been an interesting question (how did the betas get so high?) but dumping relativistic particles into the ionosphere doesn't seem (at least to this layman) like a thing that could be easily duplicated with mere radio-frequency heaters like Platteville and HAARP, so maybe that particular line of research tapered out after the end of atmospheric testing? Or maybe it was a bit too scary?

(I don't buy most of the HAARP paranoia, but it does seem from cursory browsing of Wikipedia that the ionosphere is an interesting environment, almost 'alive' in its way. Cascading ripple effects and such. Possibly a lot can be learned with just a little subtle probing.)
The betas - if you look at the fallout residues for the earth, you find the north polar reasons worse off. The betas. The plasma, the incoming flow from the sun. the RF saturation of Plattesville etc and the bombs both had the effect of funnellling stuff, charging up the affecting layer and doing things to the magneitcs.

Brown was involved in Argus if I remember rightly. The ICBM had rendered the Nike anti soviet bomber missile redundant. The test ban was looming. They needed something. They gave it a go. I think HAARP is more than research. I dont know. But it is probably many things. There is DARPA input.

Trillions of horsepower comes in daily over the sun/earth circuit. It goes to the poles.

Sexed coils - would that be pulse phased electromagnetics at all?

Lots of antennas at HAARP. Thats a crazy thought isnt it. resonant though.

I dont know Twigsnapper, thanks for the bearing though. I only have a gut feeling.

Nate, when I get technical or try to, Im a VW going sideways. OK, so in the Tech guide for
Starfish prime, what can you see there that solar flares/ EM storms have in common?

Its not that the RF transmitters or the bombs are doing anything new. The solar interaction
have always done such things only not so localised. Even down to particle flows (esp down to
particle flows) Ions follow the flux lines. Solar flares induce increased earth currents. So did the bombs. Solar flares affect the plasma characteristics of the ionosphere. So to the Rf and bombs.
Im not going to venture into capacitance fields and rotating plasma masses and stuff like that.
But I think what was going on at the weapons level was fundamentally a manipulation of an energy field. And the techniques for that manipulation may have applications beyond weapons.
And if you look at the official HAARP it says:

"HAARP is a scientific endeavor aimed at studying the properties and behavior of the ionosphere, with particular emphasis on being able to understand and use it to enhance communications and surveillance systems for both civilian and defense purposes.

The HAARP program is committed to developing a world class ionospheric research facility consisting of:

* The Ionospheric Research Instrument (IRI), a high power transmitter facility operating in the High Frequency (HF) range. The IRI will be used to temporarily excite a limited area of the ionosphere for scientific study.
* A sophisticated suite of scientific (or diagnostic) instruments that will be used to observe the physical processes that occur in the excited region.

Observation of the processes resulting from the use of the IRI in a controlled manner will allow scientists to better understand processes that occur continuously under the natural stimulation of the sun." http://www.haarp.alaska.edu/haarp/gen.html

Does the HAARP array look faimilar ? (Just a question)

Ok heres a polar map of Cs 137 fallout map. The ions from high altitude detonations follow the flux lines to earth. There were not that many. Otherwise it would have been worse. They are beta emitters (the fission fuels are alpha emitters) . But the charge of the particle determines its path in the plasma field. The earth's flux lines provide the cyclotron like guidance.
http://maps.grida.no/go/graphic/cesium_ ... 95_figures
Most of what you see there is just ordinary fallout. Its still there.

Its all perfectly safe. ((Teller, 1954)

But anyway, its my conjecture that HAARP and Plattesville didnt have to dump any particles up there, they just perhaps played and play about with the streams of particles already up there.

If you introduce a beat frequency up there, what will that induce into a sympathetic circuit on the earth? Have a look at the HAARP array again. Excited plasma and sexed coils. This is getting lurid. Why did Star fish Prime blow electrical circuits from Hawaii to New Zealand?

The sun does the same thing in differing orders of magnitude esp during flares. If you manipulate the ion flow by pulsed RF can you use it to provide induced juice ordinarily?

http://news.softpedia.com/news/The-Eart ... 2851.shtml
I admit Im a bit of a simpleton when it gets to the technicalities. But I have a cordless shaver that charges up by proximity to its plugged in base station. Theres no electrical pin connection between the shaver and its base. it charges by induction. I realise Haarp is a bit more complicated than my shaver. But is the principle applicable?
htmagic
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Re: Hidden but why - Gunn diode, Toby Grotz, and Raytheon

Post by htmagic »

AM2 wrote:But Raytheon!? This is where things get really interesting and my rather dirty and quite feverish mind starts to work full speed.

<SNIP>

Raytheon was established by whome, you will ask? Well, by an old friend of Alfred Loomis Dr. Vannevar Bush.
<SNIP>
But back to Walter Russell. There is another interesting piece of information connected to both Walter Russell and Col. Tom Bearden, namely:
http://keelynet.com/energy/dimshift.htm wrote:Years ago, Tom Bearden told me of an experiment he and an unnamed researcher had carried out using a scalar generated from interferometry. Two projectors were aimed to coincide at a fixed point in space. When power was applied and the frequency/phase was adjusted, there was no apparent change in the target area.

After some time had elapsed, the two went to get something to eat. When they came back a few hours later, it was observed that a black 'something' like a slit or opening had appeared at the target area.

Because they were working in a totally unknown area and for fear that 'something' might come through this slit once it opened up, they discontinued the experiment. A couple of years later, while visiting Peter Kelly at his lab in Georgia, he admitted he was the other researcher and verified Beardens report.

A couple of years later, after we both spoke at a conference in Denver and on the plane back to Dallas, I told Peter about an interesting experiment done by Walter Russell and recounted in his excellent book 'Atomic Suicide'. Two coils were wound on cones.

The apices of these conical coils were pointed towards each other and power was applied so that bucking fields were created by the collision of opposite magnetic fields. Very fine iron filings were dropped into the gap between the coils and a levitating sphere was produced.

When the coils were slowly pulled apart, an oval followed by a sphere surrounded by a disk appeared. When Peter arrived home, he tried this experiment and reported that when power was turned on, nearly eveyone in the building complained of feeling nauseous or queasy. He explained that an experiment was going on so that everyone would understand what was happening.

After about an hour, the very clear and cloudless sky began to suddenly boil up and a major thunderstorm ensued. Power was removed from the coils and the storm dissipated as fast as it had arisen??? Weird stuff no doubt and subject to duplication by others if we all share our information......
Conical coils and then the "two sets of dual and magnetically-sexed coils" along with "an extremely efficient new type of radar device" that you mentioned Mr. Cull. My, my, my, what was Mr. Russell doing?

AM
AM, Langley, and NateCull,

Excellent work for all of you. It is certainly hard to keep up with these posts that have been flying around.

The Gunn diode is normally used in microwave frequencies. It is a solid state (crystal) using a P-N junction that acts as a negative resistor. Whereas the magnetron was a tube, the Gunn diode was solid state and also used for radar.

Toby Grotz worked with Tesla coils and used to do testing on high voltage strikes to aircraft, etc. I did find a site that tied Grotz to Russell's works: http://merlib.org/node/5083
It also happens to discuss:
http://merlib.org/node/5083 wrote:Toby Grotz and his team are planning to replicate the energy experiments of Walter Russell. In the fall of 1959, General Chapman, Colonel Fry, Major Sargent, Major Cripe, and others from NORAD in Colorado Springs, attended a meeting at Swannanoa, Virginia (University Of Science And Philosophy) at the invitation of Walter Russell. At this meeting Russell explained the workings of a device he proposed to build to take advantage of the vacuum state energy, and the two directional movement of energy from gravitation, (generation), to radiation, (degeneration). During the following year Russell, his wife, Lao, and their assistants built the device. The prototype that was built consisted of two sets of dual and magnetically-sexed coils. On September 10, 1961, Walter and Lao Russell reported to their contacts at NORAD, that the coils had worked and that the President of the United States could announce to the world that a "greater, safer power than atomic energy" could be provided for industry and transportation.
Concerning Russell, look here: http://merlib.org/person/walter-russell Check out the diagrams next to him. I believe these may be the spiral flows that Kevin "sees". Also, click on the videos and learn what Russell was doing with transmutation of the elements.

Finally, Raytheon was also involved in Farsworth's fusor. Read Paul's book on that. Raytheon held all the patents on the fusor and kept them locked up.

As Kevin B would say: "Everything is connected!" :)

MagicBill
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Mikado14
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Re: Hidden but why - Gunn diode, Toby Grotz, and Raytheon

Post by Mikado14 »

htmagic wrote:
The Gunn diode is normally used in microwave frequencies. It is a solid state (crystal) using a P-N junction that acts as a negative resistor. Whereas the magnetron was a tube, the Gunn diode was solid state and also used for radar.
The Gunn diode is unique in that it is essentially three layers of N doped material. It is not a PN Junction.

Mikado
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Re: Hidden but why - Gunn diode, Toby Grotz, and Raytheon

Post by htmagic »

Mikado14 wrote:
The Gunn diode is unique in that it is essentially three layers of N doped material. It is not a PN Junction.

Mikado
Mikado,

You're quite right. I need to get my glasses checked! LOL! :lol:

Mikado, I'm still contemplating about the triangle you posted for AM. I see that there is a hole in the middle and not like the 3 phase diagrams I remember in college. So what does it mean? I see each only has 2 junctions. So we can have electric-gravitic, gravitic-magnetic, or electric-magnetic effects but not all 3 at the same time? :?

MagicBill
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Mikado14
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Re: Hidden but why - Gunn diode, Toby Grotz, and Raytheon

Post by Mikado14 »

htmagic wrote:
Mikado, I'm still contemplating about the triangle you posted for AM. I see that there is a hole in the middle and not like the 3 phase diagrams I remember in college. So what does it mean? I see each only has 2 junctions. So we can have electric-gravitic, gravitic-magnetic, or electric-magnetic effects but not all 3 at the same time? :?

MagicBill
All three are connected with the cap.

Mikado
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy
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