Hidden but why

A place to engage extended discussions of things that come up on the ttbrown.com website. Anything goes here, as long as it's somehow pertinent to the subject(s) at hand.
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Langley
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Re: Hidden but why

Post by Langley »

htmagic wrote:Langley,

Yes, those meters remind me of the old Civil defense meters that were (and still are) out there:

I have an ion chamber model like the Victoreen in the first picture and an external probe type like the CDV-700. Both are yellow in color.

Did Dr. Brown have his fingers in the RTG? Who knows? We know he was involved with caesium (Cs), we don't know if it was Cs-137. And the time frame certainly fits.

MagicBill
Every home should have one.

That's the colour, that yellow. The place I was at used to fix em. Blast from the past. There weres 1,000s of em down here. Strange goings on in the calibration room. The good old days. sigh.

I can't imagine anyone not being interested in the RTG at the dawn of the era. If it were me I'd have a neato power pack in the back of the VW. A Type 3 wagon loaded to the bump stops with Strontium RTGs. It would go without refueling for twice the life of the car. (about 100 years) And totally freak my mates at the next meeting of the anti nuclear sub comittee. Smirk. What a problem. With all the mandatory stickers on the car, I'd have a clear run through traffic too. Wouldnt put em in a Pinto though.

The excitement of those times. It must have been amazing. Even if Dr Brown didnt use em, he must have joined in to conversations on such things in the NRL lunch room.

Seriously, it fits though.
http://www.spaceref.com/news/viewpr.html?pid=12000
"The RTG on Pioneer 10 operated over 30 years and over seven billion miles from Earth."
Last edited by Langley on Fri Jul 18, 2008 12:24 am, edited 1 time in total.
htmagic
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Posts: 661
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Location: People's Republic of Maryland

Re: Hidden but why

Post by htmagic »

Langley wrote:I can't imagine anyone not being interested in the RTG at the dawn of the era.

Neither can I. This looks like something TTB would be involved in.

If it were me I'd have a neato power pack in the back of the VW. A Type 3 wagon loaded to the bump stops with Strontium RTGs. It would go without refueling for twice the life of the car. (about 100 years) And totally freak my mates at the next meeting of the anti nuclear sub comittee. Smirk. What a problem. With all the mandatory stickers on the car, I'd have a clear run through traffic too. Wouldnt put em in a Pinto though.

LOL! I bet the cop wouldn't give you a ticket! Or it would be a fast stop! :lol:

The excitement of those times. It must have been amazing. Even if Dr Brown didnt use em, he must have joined in to conversations on such things in the NRL lunch room.
Langely,

I quite agree. The tie between the NRL developing an RTG, along with his study of petrovoltaics, and Odlum and a uranium mine later on in the 1960s seems to fit well together.

MagicBill
Speeding through the Universe, thinking is the best way to travel ...
Langley
Senior Officer
Posts: 620
Joined: Mon Dec 25, 2006 11:31 am
Location: AUSTRALIA

Re: Hidden but why

Post by Langley »

htmagic wrote:The tie between the NRL developing an RTG, along with his study of petrovoltaics, and Odlum and a uranium mine later on in the 1960s seems to fit well together.

MagicBill
Synchronisity is often not that, but signs of life. Very complex environment.
FM No Static At All
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Re: Hidden but why

Post by FM No Static At All »

I am not sure if this belongs in this thread, but it is hidden in plain sight, and the why seems obvious. I am posting it here because it is something that needs to be addressed as we advance into areas of Dr. Brown's plans for the future, and why he may have put in place and entrusted to the Caroline Group. I will seem apparent to all that read these next lines, why Dr. Brown joined the Caroline Group in the first place, and possibly give us all an enlightened insight as to why they remain hidden but a constant vigil behind the curtain.

As the news headlines bounce from political campaigns to war to economics, and the ads about drugs and instant gratification for just about everything that you want bombard the airwaves stopping only to offer snippets of what is happening in the lives of celebrities, our personal freedoms and pockets are being drained and nobody seems to know why, or offer a real answer to solving the problems.

You can read this and more at http://www.barefootsworld.net/tavistok.html or the main page at http://www.barefootsworld.net/
Dr. John Coleman wrote:
-- TAVISTOCK INSTITUTE --
30 Tabernacle Street, London EC2A 4DD. --


Formed in 1947, the Tavistock Institute is an independent not-for-profit organisation which seeks to combine research in the social sciences with professional practice. Problems of institution-building and organisational design and change are being tackled in all sectors - government, industry and commerce, health and welfare, education, etc. - nationally and internationally, and clients range from multinationals to small community groups. A growth area has been the use of a developmental approach to evaluation of new and experimental programmes, particularly in health, education and community development. This has also produced new training events alongside the regular programme of group relations conferences. The Institute owns and edits the monthly journal Human Relations (published by Plenum Press) which is now in its 48th year, and has recently launched (in conjunction with Sage Publications) a new journal Evaluation.

Three elements combine to make the Institute unusual, if not unique: it has the independence of being entirely self-financing, with no subsidies from the government or other sources; the action research orientation places it between, but not in, the worlds of academia and consultancy; and its range of disciplines include anthropology, economics, organisational behaviour, political science, psychoanalysis, psychology and sociology.

So reads the opening paragraphs of the Tavistock Institute home page at http://www.tavinstitute.org

The ideology of American foundations was created by the Tavistock Institute of Human Relations in London. In 1921, the Duke of Bedford, Marquess of Tavistock, the 11th Duke, gave a building to the Institute to study the effect of shellshock on British soldiers who survived World War I. Its purpose was to establish the "breaking point" of men under stress, under the direction of the British Army Bureau of Psychological Warfare, commanded by Sir John Rawlings-Reese.

Tavistock Institute is headquartered in London. Its prophet, Sigmond Freud, settled in Maresfield Gardens when he moved to England. He was given a mansion by Princess Bonaparte. Tavistock's pioneer work in behavioral science along Freudian lines of "controlling" humans established it as the world center of foundation ideology. Its network now extends from the University of Sussex to the U.S. through the Stanford Research Institute, Esalen, MIT, Hudson Institute, Heritage Foundation, Center of Strategic and International Studies at Georgetown, where State Dept. personal are trained, US Air Force Intelligence, and the Rand and Mitre corporations. The personnel of the corporations are required to undergo indoctrination at one or more of these Tavistock controlled institutions. A network of secret groups, the Mont Pelerin Society, Trilateral Commission, Ditchley Foundation, and the Club of Rome is conduit for instructions to the Tavistock network.

Tavistock Institute developed the mass brain-washing techniques which were first used experimentally on American prisoners of war in Korea. Its experiments in crowd control methods have been widely used on the American public, a surreptitious but nevertheless outrageous assault on human freedom by modifying individual behavior through topical psychology. A German refugee, Kurt Lewin, became director of Tavistock in 1932. He came to the U.S. in 1933 as a "refugee", the first of many infiltrators, and set up the Harvard Psychology Clinic, which originated the propaganda campaign to turn the American public against Germany and involve us in World War II. In 1938, Roosevelt executed a secret agreement with Churchill which in effect ceded U.S. sovereignty to England, because it agreed to let Special Operations Executive control U.S. policies. To implement this agreement, Roosevelt sent General Donovan to London for indoctrination before setting up OSS (now the CIA) under the aegis of SOE-SIS. The entire OSS program, as well as the CIA has always worked on guidelines set up by the Tavistock Institute.

Tavistock Institute originated the mass civilian bombing raids carried out by Roosevelt and Churchill purely as a clinical experiment in mass terror, keeping records of the results as they watched the "guinea pigs" reacting under "controlled laboratory conditions". All Tavistock and American foundation techniques have a single goal---to break down the psychological strength of the individual and render him helpless to oppose the dictators of the World Order. Any technique which helps to break down the family unit, and family inculcated principles of religion, honor, patriotism and sexual behavior, is used by the Tavistock scientists as weapons of crowd control. The methods of Freudian psychotherapy induce permanent mental illness in those who undergo this treatment by destabilizing their character. The victim is then advised to "establish new rituals of personal interaction", that is, to indulge in brief sexual encounters which actually set the participants adrift with no stable personal relationships in their lives, destroying their ability to establish or maintain a family.

Tavistock Institute has developed such power in the U.S. that no one achieves prominence in any field unless he has been trained in behavioral science at Tavistock or one of its subsidiaries. Henry Kissinger, whose meteoric rise to power is otherwise inexplicable, was a German refugee and student of Sir John Rawlings-Reese at SHAEF. Dr. Peter Bourne, a Tavistock Institute psychologist, picked Jimmy Carter for President of the U.S. solely because Carter had undergone an intensive brainwashing program administered by Admiral Hyman Rickover at Annapolis.

The "experiment" in compulsory racial integration in the U.S. was organized by Ronald Lippert, of the OSS and the American Jewish Congress, and director of child training at the Commission on Community Relations. The program was designed to break down the individual's sense of personal knowledge in his identity, his racial heritage. Through the Stanford Research Institute, Tavistock controls the National Education Association. The Institute of Social Research at the National Training Lab brain washes the leading executives of business and government. Such is the power of Tavistock that our entire space program was scrapped for nine years so that the Soviets could catch up. The hiatus was demanded in an article written by Dr. Anatol Rapport, and was promptly granted by the government, to the complete mystification of everyone connected with NASA. Another prominent Tavistock operation is the Wharton School of Finance, at the University of Pennsylvania.

A single common denominator identifies the common Tavistock strategy---the use of drugs. The infamous MK Ultra program of the CIA, in which unsuspecting CIA officials were given LSD, and their reaction studied like "guinea pigs", resulted in several deaths. The U.S. Government had to pay millions in damages to the families of the victims, but the culprits were never indicted. The program originated when Sandoz AG, a Swiss drug firm, owned by S.G. Warburg Co. of London, developed Lysergic Acid. Roosevelt's advisor, James Paul Warburg, son of Paul Warburg who wrote the Federal Reserve Act, and nephew of Max Warburg who had financed Hitler, set up the Institute fir Policy Studies to promote the drug. The result was the LSD "counter-culture" of the 1960s, the "student revolution", which was financed by $25 million from the CIA.

One part of MK Ultra was the Human Ecology Fund; the CIA also paid Dr. Herbert Kelman of Harvard to carry out further experiments on mind control. In the 1950s, the CIA financed extensive LSD experiments in Canada. Dr. D. Ewen Cameron, president of the Canadian Psychological Association, and director of Royal Victorian Hospital, Montreal, received large payments from the CIA to give 53 patients large doses of LSD and record their reactions; the patients were drugged into weeks of sleep and then given electric shock treatments. One victim, the wife of a member of the Canadian Parliament, is now suing the U.S. companies who provided the drug for the CIA. All the records of the CIA's drug testing program were ordered destroyed by the head of MK Ultra.

Because all efforts of the Tavistock Institute are directed toward producing cyclical collapse, the effect of the CIA programs are tragically apparent. R. Emmett Tyrell Jr., writing in the Washington Post August 20, 1984, cites the "squalid consequences of the 60s radicals in SDS" as resulting in "the growing rate of illegitimacy, petty lawlessness, drug addiction, welfare, VD, and mental illness".

This is the legacy of the Warburgs and the CIA. Their principal agency, the Institute for Policy Studies, was funded by James Paul Warburg; its co-founder was Marcus Raskin, protege of McGeorge Bundy, president of the Ford Foundation. Bundy had Raskin appointed to the post of President Kennedy's personal representative on the National Security Council, and in 1963 funded Students for Democratic Society, through which the CIA operated the drug culture.

Today the Tavistock Institute operates a $6 Billion a year network of Foundations in the U.S., all of it funded by U.S. taxpayers' money. Ten major institutions are under its direct control, with 400 subsidiaries, and 3000 other study groups and think tanks which originate many types of programs to increase the control of the World Order over the American people. The Stanford Research Institute, adjoining the Hoover Institution, is a $150 million a year operation with 3300 employees. It carries on program surveillance for Bechtel, Kaiser, and 400 other companies, and extensive intelligence operations for the CIA. It is the largest institution on the West Coast promoting mind control and the behavioral sciences.


One of the key agencies as a conduit for secret instructions from Tavistock is the Ditchley Foundation, founded in 1957. The American branch of the Ditchley Foundation is run by Cyrus Vance, former Secretary of State, and director of the Rockefeller Foundation, and Winston Lord, president of the Council on Foreign Relations.

One of the principal but little known operations of the Rockefeller Foundation has been its techniques for controlling world agriculture. Its director, Kenneth Wernimont, set up Rockefeller controlled agricultural programs throughout Mexico and Latin America. The independent farmer is a great threat to the World Order, because he produces for himself, and because his produce can be converted into capital, which gives him independence. In Soviet Russia, the Bolsheviks believed they had attained total control over the people; they were dismayed to find their plans threatened by the stubborn independence of the small farmers, the Kulaks. Stalin ordered the OGPU to seize all food and animals of the Kulaks, and to starve them out. The Chicago American, February 25, 1935 carried a front page headline, SIX MILLION PERISH IN SOVIET FAMINE; Peasants' Crops Seized, They and their Animals Starve. To draw attention from this atrocity, it was later alleged that the Germans, not the Soviets, had killed six million people, the number taken from the Chicago American headline by a Chicago publicist.

The Communist Party, the Party of the Peasants and Workers, exterminated the peasants and enslaved the workers. Many totalitarian regimes have found the small farmer to be their biggest stumbling block. The French Reign of Terror was directed, not against the aristocrats, many of whom were sympathetic to it, but against the small farmers who refused to turn over their grain to the revolutionary tribunals in exchange for the worthless assignats. In the United States, the foundations are presently engaged in the same type of war of extermination against the American farmer. The traditional formula of land plus labor for the farmer has been altered due to the farmer's need for purchasing power, to buy industrial goods needed in his farming operations. Because of this need for capital, the farmer is especially vulnerable to the World Order's manipulation of interest rates, which is bankrupting him. Just as in the Soviet Union, in the early 1930s, when Stalin ordered the Kulaks to give up their small plots of land to live and work on the collective farms, the American small farmer faces the same type of extermination, being forced to give up his small plot of land to become a hired hand for the big agricultural trusts. The Brookings Institution and other foundations originated the monetary programs implemented by the Federal Reserve System to destroy the American farmer, a replay of the Soviet tragedy in Russia, with one proviso that the farmer will be allowed to survive if he becomes a slave worker of the giant trusts.

Once the citizen becomes aware of the true role of the foundations, he can understand the high interest rates, high taxes, the destruction of the family, the degradation of the churches into forums for revolution, the subversion of the universities into CIA cesspools of drug addiction, and the halls of government into sewers of international espionage and intrigue. The American citizen can now understand why every agent of the federal government is against him; the alphabet agencies, the FBI, IRS, CIA and BATF must make war on the citizen in order to carry out the programs of the foundations.

The foundations are in direct violation of their charters, which commit them to do "charitable" work, because they make no grants which are not part of a political goal. The charge has been made, and never denied, that the Heritage-AEI network has at least two KGB moles on its staff. The employment of professional intelligence operatives as "charitable" workers, as was done in the Red Cross Mission to Russia in 1917, exposes the sinister political economic and social goals which the World Order requires the foundations to achieve through their " bequests ".


Not only is this tax fraud, because the foundations are granted tax exemption solely to do charitable work, but it is criminal syndicalism, conspiracy to commit offenses against the United States of America, Constitutional Law 213, Corpus Juris Secundum 16. For the first time, the close interlocking of the foundation "syndicate" has been revealed by the names of its principle incorporators---Daniel Coit Gilman, who incorporated the Peabody Fund and the John Slater Fund, and became an incorporator of the General Education Board (now the Rockefeller Foundation); Gilman, who also incorporated the Russell Trust in 1856, later became an incorporator of the Carnegie Institution with Andrew Dickson White (Russell Trust) and Frederic A. Delano. Delano also was an original incorporator of the Brookings Institution and the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace. Daniel Coit Gilman incorporated the Russell Sage Foundation with Cleveland H. Dodge of the National City Bank. These foundations incorporators have been closely linked with the Federal Reserve System, the War Industries Board of World War I, the OSS of World War II and the CIA. They have also been closely linked with the American International Corporation, which was formed to instigate the Bolshevik Revolution in Russia. Delano, an uncle of Franklin Delano Roosevelt, was on the original Board of Governors of the Federal Reserve System in 1914. His brother-in-law founded the influential Washington law firm of Covington and Burling. The Delanos and other ruling families of the World Order trace their lineage directly back to William of Orange and the regime which granted the charter of the Bank of England.

Tavistock Institutions In The United States

Flow Laboratories
Gets contracts from the National Institutes of Health.

Merle Thomas Corporation
Gets contracts from the U.S. Navy, analyzes data from satellites.

Walden Research
Does work in the field of pollution control.

Planning Research Corporation, Arthur D. Little, G.E. "TEMPO", Operations Research Inc.
Part of approximately 350 firms who conduct research and conduct surveys, make recommendations to government. They are part of what President Eisenhower called "a possible danger to public policy that could itself become captive of a scientific-technological elite."

•Brookings Institution
Dedicates its work to what it calls a "national agenda." Wrote President Hoover's program, President Roosevelt's "New Deal", the Kennedy Administration's "New Frontiers" program (deviation from it may have cost John F. Kennedy his life), and President Johnson's "Great Society." Brookings has been telling the United States Government how to conduct its affairs for the past 70 years and is still doing so.

Hudson Institute
This institution has done more to shape the way Americans react to political and social events, think, vote and generally conduct themselves than perhaps any except the BIG FIVE. Hudson specializes in defense policy research and relations with the USSR. Most of its military work is classified as SECRET. (One idea during the Vietnam War was to build a moat around Saigon.) Hudson may be properly classified as one of the Committee of 300's BRAINWASHING establishments. One of its largest clients is the U.S. Department of Defense which includes matters of civil defense, national security, military policy and arms control.

National Training Laboratories
One of the key institutions established for this purpose in the United States was the National Training Laboratories (NTL). Founded in 1947 by members of the Tavistock network in the United States and located originally on an estate in Bethel, Maine, NTL had as its explicit purpose the brainwashing of leaders of the government, educational institutions, and corporate bureaucracies in the Tavistock method, and then using these "leaders" to either themselves run Tavistock group sessions in their organizations or to hire other similarly trained group leaders to do the job. The "nuts and bolts" of the NTL operation revolves around the particular form of Tavistock degenerate psychology known as "group dynamics," developed by German Tavistock operative Kurt Lewin, who emigrated to the United States in the 1930s and whose students founded NTL. In a Lewinite brainwashing group, a number of individuals from varying backgrounds and personalities, are manipulated by a "group leader" to form a "consensus" of opinion, achieving a new "group identity." The key to the process is the creation of a controlled environment, in which stress is introduced (somtimes called dissonance) to crack an individual's belief structure. Using the peer pressure of other group members, the individual is "cracked," and a new personality emerges with new values. The degrading experience causes the person to deny that any change has taken place. In that way, an individual is brainwashed without the victim knowing what has taken place.

This method is the same, with some minor modification, used in all so-called "sensitivity groups" or "T-groups," or in the more extreme rock-drug-sex count-erculture form, "touchy-feely groups," such as the kind popularized from the 1960s onward by the Esalen Institute, which was set up with the help of NTL.

From the mid-1950s onward, NTL put the majority of the nation's corporate leaderships through such branwashing programs, while running similar programs for the State Department, the Navy, the Department of Education, and other sections of the federal bureaucracy. There is no firm estimate of the number of Americans who have been put through this process in last 40 years at either NTL, or as it is now known the NTL Institute for Applied Behavioral Sciences, which is based in Rosslyn, Virginia, or its West Coast base of operations, the Western Training Laboratories in Group Development, or in various satellite institions. The most reliable estimate is in the several millions.

One of the goups that went through the NTL mill in the 1950s was the leadership of the National Education Association, the largest organization of teachers in the United States. Thus, the NEA's outlook has been "shaped" by Tavistock, through the NTL. In 1964, the NTL Institute became a direct part of the NEA, with the NTL setting up "group sessions" for all its affiliates. With funding from the Departnent of Education, the NTL Institute drafted the programs for the training of the nation's primary and secondary school teachers, and has a hand as well in developing the content of educational "reforms," including OBE.

Also known as the International Institute for Applied Behavioral Sciences. This institute is a brainwashing center in artificial stress training whereby participants suddenly find themselves immersed in defending themselves against vicious accusations. NTL takes in the •National Education Association, the largest teacher group in the United States. While officially decrying "racism", it is interesting to note that NTL, working with NEA, produced a paper proposing education vouchers which would separate the hard-to-teach children from the brighter ones, and funding would be allocated according to the number of difficult children who would be separated from those who progressed at a normal rate. The proposal was not taken up.

University of Pennsylvania, Wharton School of Finance & Commerce Founded by Eric Trist
One of the "brain trusts" of Tavistock, Wharton has become one of the more important Tavistock in so far as "Behavioral Research" is concerned. Wharton attracts clients such as the U.S. Department of Labor---which teaches how to produce "cooked" statistics at the Wharton Econometric Forecasting Associates Incorporated. This method was very much in demand as we came to the close of 1991 with millions more out of work than was reflected in USDL statistics. Wharton's ECONOMETRIC MODELING is used by every major Committee of 300 company in the United States, Western Europe, the International Monetary Fund, the United Nations, and the World Bank.

Institute for Social Research
Among its clients are The Ford Foundation, U.S.Department of Defense, U.S.Postal Service and the U.S. Department of Justice. Among its studies are "The Human Meaning Of Social Change", "Youth in Transition" and "How Americans View Their Mental Health".

Institute For The Future
This is not a typical Tavistock institution in that it is funded by the Ford Foundation, yet it draws its long-range forecasting from the mother of all think tanks. Institute for the Future projects what it believes to be changes that will be taking place in time frames of fifty years. So called "DELPHI PANELS" decide what is normal and what is not, and prepare position papers to "steer" government in the right direction to head off such groups as "people creating civil disorder." (This could be patriotic groups demanding abolition of graduated taxes, or demanding that their right to bear arms is not infringed.) This institute recommends action such as liberalizing abortion laws, drug usage and that cars entering an urban area pay tolls, teaching birth control in public schools, requiring registration of firearms, making use of drugs a non-criminal offense, legalizing homosexuality, paying students for scholastic achievements, making zoning controls a preserve of the state, offering bonuses for family planning and last, but most frightening, a Pol Pot Cambodia-style proposal that new communities be established in rural areas, (concentration camp compounds). As can be observed, many of their goals have already been more than fully realized.

INSTITUTE FOR POLICY STUDIES (IPS)
One of the "Big Three", IFS has shaped and reshaped United States policies, foreign and domestic, since it was founded by James P. Warburg and the Rothschild entities in the United States. Its networks in America include the League for Industrial Democracy. Lead players in the League for Industrial Democracy have included Jeane Kirkpatrick, former U.S. Ambassador to the United Nations, Irwin Suall of the ADL, Eugene Rostow, Arms control negotiator, Lane Kirkland, Labor Leader, and Albert Shanker. IFS was incorporated in 1963 by Marcus Raskin and Richard Barnett, both highly trained Tavistock Institute graduates. The objectives of IFS came from an agenda laid down for it by the Tavistock Institute, one of the most notable being to create the "New Left" as a grass roots movement in the U.S. Its been said that Barnett and Raskin controlled such diverse elements as the Black Panthers, Daniel Ellsberg, National Security Council staff member Halprin, The Weathermen Underground, the Venceramos and the campaign staff of candidate George McGovern. No scheme was too big for IFS and its controllers to take on and manage.

Through its many powerful lobbing groups on Capitol Hill,IFS relentlessly used its "Big Stick" to beat Congress. IFS has a network of lobbyists, all supposedly operating independently but in actual fact acting cohesively, so that Congressmen are pummeled from all sides by seemingly different and varied lobbyists, In this way, IFS was, and is still, able to successfully sway individual Representatives and Senators to vote for "the trend, the way things are going." By using key pointmen on Capitol Hill, IFS was able to break into the very infrastructure of our legislative system and the way it works.

IFS became, and remains to this day, one of the most prestigious "think tanks" controlling foreign policy decisions, which we, the people, foolishly believe are those of our law makers.

By sponsoring militant activism at home and with links to revolutionaries abroad, by engineering such victories as "The Pentagon Papers," besieging the corporate structure, bridging the credibility gap between underground movements and acceptable political activism, by penetrating religious organizations and using them to sow discord in America, such as radical racial policies under the guise of religion, using establishment media to spread IFS ideas, and then supporting them, IFS has lived up to the role which it was founded to play.

STANFORD RESEARCH INSTITUTE
Jesse Hobson, the first president of Stanford Research Institute, in a 1952 speech made it clear what lines the institute was to follow. Stanford can be described as one of the "jewels" in Tavistock's Crown in its rule over the United States. Founded in 1946 immediately after the close of WWII, it was presided over by Charles A. Anderson, with emphasis on mind control research and "future sciences." Included under the Stanford umbrella was Charles F. Kettering Foundation which developed the "Changing Images of Man" upon which the Aquarian Conspiracy rests.

Some of Stanford's major clients and contracts were at first centered around the defense establishment but, as Stanford grew, so, did the diversity of its services: Applications of Behavioral Sciences to Research Management
Office of Science and Technology

SRI Business Intelligence Program
U.S. Department of Defense Directorate of Defense Research and Engineering
U.S. Department of Defense Office of Aerospace Research


Among corporations seeking Stanford's services were Wells Fargo Bank, Bechtel Corporation, Hewlett Packard, Bank of America, McDonnell Douglas Corporation, Blyth, Eastman Dillon and TRW Company. One of Stanford's more secret projects was extensive work on chemical and bacteriological warfare (CAB) weapons.

Stanford Research is plugged into at least 200 smaller "think tanks" doing research into every facet of life in America. This is ARPA networking and represents the emergence of probably the most far reaching effort to control the environment of every individual in the country. At present Stanford's computers are linked with 2500 "sister" research consoles which include the CIA, Bell Telephone Laboratories, U.S. Army Intelligence, The Office of Naval Intelligence (ONI), Rand, MIT, Harvard and UCLA. Stanford plays a key role in that it is the "library", cataloging all ARPA documentation.

"Other agencies".....one can use one's imagination here, are allowed to search through SRI's "library" for key words, phrases, look through sources and update their own master files with those of Stanford Research Center. The Pentagon uses SRI's master files extensively, and there is little doubt that other U.S. Government agencies do the same. Pentagon "command and control" problems are worked out by Stanford.

While ostensibly these apply only to weapons and soldiers, there is absolutely no guarantee that the same research could not , and will not be turned to civilian applications. Stanford is known to be willing to do anything for anyone.

MASSACHUSETTS INSTITUTE OF TECHNOLOGY, ALFRED P. SLOAN SCHOOL OF MANAGEMENT
This major institute is not generally recognized as being a part of Tavistock U.S.A. Most people look upon it as being a purely American institution, but that is far from the truth. MIT- Alfred Sloan can be roughly divided into the following groups:

Contemporary Technology
Industrial Relations

NASA-ERC Computer Research Labatories
Office of Naval Research Group, Psychology
Systems Dynamics

Some of MIT's clients are:

American Management Association
•Committee for Economic Development
GTE
Institute for Defense Analysis (IDA)
NASA
National Academy of Sciences
National Council of Churches
Sylvania
TRW
U.S. Army
U.S. Department of State
U.S. Navy
U.S. Treasury
Volkswagen Company

RAND RESEARCH AND DEVELOPMENT CORPORATION
Without a doubt, RAND is THE think tank most beholden to Tavistock Institute and certainly the RIIA's most prestigious vehicle for control of United States policies at every level. Specific RAND policies that became operative include our ICBM program, prime analyses for U.S. foreign policy making, instigator of space programs, U.S. nuclear policies, corporate analyses, hundreds of projects for the military, the Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) in relation to the use of mind altering drugs like peyote, LSD (the covert MK-ULTRA operation which lasted for 20 years).

Some of RAND's clients include:

American Telephone and Telegraph Company (AT&T)
Chase Manhattan Bank
International Business Machines (IBM)
National Science Foundation
Republican Party
TRW
U.S. Air Force
U.S. Department of Health
U.S. Department of Energy

There are literally THOUSANDS of highly important companies, government institutions and organizations that make use of RANDS's services. To list them all would be impossible. Among RAND's specialities is a study group that predicts the timing and the direction of a thermonuclear war, plus working out the many scenarios based upon its findings. RAND was once accused of being commisioned by the USSR to work out terms of surrender of the United States Government, an accusation that went all the way to the United States Senate, where it was taken up by Senator Symington and subsquently fell victim to scorn poured out by the establishment press. BRAINWASHING remains the primary function of RAND.

• These institutions are among those that fund The UNIFORM LAW FOUNDATION, whose function is to ensure that the Uniform Commercial Code remains the instrument for conducting business in the United States.

DISCLAIMER -- Information on Tavistock is next to impossible to acquire. The above information was obtained from Dr. Coleman's copyrighted material. All the above information is intended for educational purposes only and may not be reproduced for publication or sale. Buy the book!!
Well, it seems obvious why some things remain hidden.

Fred a.k.a.
FM - No Static At All
'The only reason some people get lost in thought is because its unfamiliar territory.'

http://fixamerica-fredmars.blogspot.com/
Elizabeth Helen Drake
Sr. Research Asst.
Posts: 1742
Joined: Fri Sep 23, 2005 6:11 am

Re: Hidden but why

Post by Elizabeth Helen Drake »

There are always different slants to everything.

My reaction to more than 98% of the article above is "poppycock", but I have my own way of translating information, And that is what is happening here, The translations ( more rightly "interpretations") color the facts.

A bunch of very dark and deep and perhaps endless rabbit holes. I stare in at the top, toss a pebble down to see if it hits somewhere, Failing hearing the sound of the pebble hitting a bottom, I think that I will pass on this one ............... Elizabeth
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Re: Hidden but why

Post by twigsnapper »

In response to this

"A German refugee, Kurt Lewin, became director of Tavistock in 1932. He came to the U.S. in 1933 as a "refugee", the first of many infiltrators, and set up the Harvard Psychology Clinic, which originated the propaganda campaign to turn the American public against Germany and involve us in World War II. In 1938, Roosevelt executed a secret agreement with Churchill which in effect ceded U.S. sovereignty to England, because it agreed to let Special Operations Executive control U.S. policies. To implement this agreement, Roosevelt sent General Donovan to London for indoctrination before setting up OSS (now the CIA) under the aegis of SOE-SIS. The entire OSS program, as well as the CIA has always worked on guidelines set up by the Tavistock Institute.

comments, since you asked

Special Operations Executive with control over U. S, Policies? Hardly. They did look the other way while we operated in New York and other points of interest where it became vital to locate and eliminate Nazi agents.Sir William was heartless when it came to hunting these situations down and eliminating them. Would you have had him do less? Looking back at the span of history? And if the United States hadn't come into the war. Remember they resisted actually until Japan attacked and then Germany declared war on the US. so you can see how odd that " drew the United States into war" actually is.

"The entire OSS program, as well as the CIA has always worked on guidelines set up by the Tavistock Institute." Different meaning here " guidlelines" are beneficial lines set up to help a situation along . NOT solid orders and restrictions. And I believe that the OSS had many problems in the early days and actually needed all of the wisdom it could rake up in one pile. And there were other sources too.

Human pyschology was important in those days because we were outgunned and outmanned and the idea was to figure how to mentally take the enemy out in deep, very deep water and have him wear himself out just trying to keep afloat. We messed with his communications, we messed with German prostitutes on the street, we messed with mail delivery and fake papers, we spread rumors about sharks being turned loose in the English channel that were especially vicious ( shipped all of the way from down under) I was especially fond of that one| We set up dummy units and had fake communications between them. We started rumors of small bands of elite killer forces that were free to roam the German countryside, that no one was safe from them. ( and that there were a thousand of them... in fact just a handful.) Oh and of course the Hitler and syphillis thing ... and that the wives of german soldiers in the field were being drafted to be used as pleasure units for other troops. Any thing to upset a fellow so that he would question what was happening and perhaps not shoot as straight.

So when an article like this mentions "brainwashing" that was just the tip of the iceberg.

"Any technique which helps to break down the family unit, and family inculcated principles of religion, honor, patriotism and sexual behavior" is used by the Tavistock scientists as weapons of crowd control ..... oh my sounds so nasty. Or Madison avenue ad agencies perhaps.But in Warfare ... you use every available asset.

When opposed by a big brute, go for the knees.Or a handy rolled up magazine <g> twigsnapper
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Re: Hidden but why

Post by Langley »

Elizabeth Helen Drake wrote:There are always different slants to everything.
Elizabeth
I just need to roll a Jaffa down the theatre floor.

I think that very often people of good intention, when they achieve positions of direct influence (ie get elected or attain a level of influence at work, or discover something about the nature of things), often find themselves in unexpected conflict with people, who, despite their herefore apparent 'openness' are seen to be motivated by hidden agendas. And its as if such opposition is not mere difference of opinion, but that the opposition was placed in order to protect a fifth column.

Society is under influences of all kinds. Behaviour is determined by norms. Which norms are imposed by a what agenda, and which ones are innate to the culture? In our (broadly) world, this toying with forces (the movie "Network" pops into mind) is a thing any advertising agency would well understand, and political pollster and so on.

What if such social controls had been grabbed some time ago? In essence, in terms of social manipulation, its not different to the premise of "1984".

Let's look at an example. Take all the bombs dropped on the continental United States by the AEC and DoD. Strip away the programming and invision what would have happened, what outcome would have occurred had the Russians dropped those exact same bombs.

And then you look at what was happening, what the official response to opponents at the time. Like Einstien, Pauling, Commoner, etc.

Certain proofs which show the actions against the national interest and welfare lay suppressed for decades so as to separate motive from action.

And so as far as the "Shadow Government" goes, it may be that there are highly secret goings on originated by America. And it may that a Fifth column exists and infiltrates at every opportunity. Owning both sides to any argument, so that no matter who wins any argument, the Fifth Column is position adjacent to the winning side.

Problem is, what motives people to engage in such a long term program which measures the time taken to achieve the final outcome in generations? It ends up therefore not to be politically based, but based in the occult.

Such is a central plank in Deyo's books. A crisis so great that the tribes of earth unite to meet the threat.

Cant have a World Government if people are happy at the National level.

Russia wasnt stupid enough to bomb America. And Vice Versa. But both were led to be stupid enough to do this:

http://www.ratical.org/radiation/KillingOurOwn/KOO.pdf

A free read, in any event. From http://www.ratical.org/radiation

Now, I might be an unwittting stooge of the International solar cell consortium, however,
conspiracies do exit. If I didnt think that if the information presented here at
http://md.gehealthcare.com/metastron/
would have killed atomic testing dead in its tracks, then I have wasted years of my time.

For as it says on the page, it was approved for use in 1993. The problem is the treatment was developed '39-41
http://openlibrary.org/b/OL184317M

Conspiracies do exist.
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Re: Hidden but why

Post by natecull »

My personal reaction to that article is much like Elizabeth's. I think there are a lot of true facts in it, coloured by a particular viewpoint which puts the worst suspicion on everything. And ascribes too much power to a single all-powerful Plan for World Domination. In my experience, even the smallest of plans ('let's upgrade this server') don't generally work out the way you want them. Something *always* stuffs up. When you're dealing with social and psychological forces, which despite name-dropping Freud we really *don't* know stuff all about how they work -- anyone trying for long-term, in-depth social control is going to have a rather awkward time of it and will need to improvise a *lot*.

On the other hand, it is fascinating to me to see how many "conspiracies" (or consortia) are finally bubbling to the surface in diaries, historical records, etc. I accept that in wartime (and WW2 must have been a really scary time for everyone) a lot of things are done that wouldn't be considered legal in peacetime. And we live in a world shaped by that conflict, and by the Cold War which continued a lot of those associations and embedded them under the surface of apparently "democratic" institutions. When the fear of Marxist revolution backed by Moscow was so strong, and Marxist agents were adept at stirring the pot and fomenting strife, "the people" weren't necessarily considered trustworthy in all respects even in the "democratic" West. So I can see how plans and structures were quietly put in place that took "the people" out of the loop, "for our own good", "to protect us" and with the best of intentions - "safeguarding the Constitution", for instance, because in the USA the Constitution is *supposed* to override the will of the majority. But in practice, perhaps, that good intuition about principles trumping sheer brute people-power could have turned in on itself and led to the development of an unmonitored black military underground at odds with the very principles it was sworn to protect (and still believes it is protecting), by any means necessary.

Good people, for the very best of reasons, can do bad things and not even know it. Bad people can do good things mixed in with the bad. Ordinary people can do murky things for murky reasons and not really know if what they achieved was good or bad. There's a lot of murk in wartime. You flood your enemy with lies and secrets in order to have to kill less actual people, or at least get less of your own people killed - and that's a good thing, right? Better jaw, jaw than war, war. But what if some of those lies and secrets then take on lives of their own, how do you figure out when to pull the plug, if you even can?

It's all a big confusing mess, and I'm not sure I can make a clean division between "good people" and "bad people".

(Apologies for the text-dump, but I think it's apropos to compare mainstream historiography of the nuclear era with our voyage into only perhaps slightly murkier seas)

From "The Decision to Use the Atomic Bomb": http://www.amazon.com/Decision-Use-Atom ... 041&sr=8-1
Among the many remaining puzzles surrounding the decision to use the atomic bomb, perhaps the most intriguing concern two of the nation's highest World War II military leaders. A few years after Hiroshima and Nagasaki were destroyed, Admiral William D Leahy went public with the following statement:
It is my opinion that the use of this barbarous weapon at Hiroshima and Nagasaki was of no material assistance in our war against Japan. The Japanese were already defeated and ready to surrender...
My own feeling was that in being the first to use it, we had adopted an ethical standard common to the barbarians of the Dark Ages. I was not taught to make war in that fashion, and wars cannot be won by destroying women and children...
Leahy was not what one might call a typical critic of American policy. Not only had the five-star admiral presided over the U.S. Joint Chiefs of Staff (and the Combined American-British Chiefs of Staff), but he had simultaneously been chief of staff to the commander-in-chief of the army and navy, serving Roosevelt in that capacity from 1942 to 1945 and Truman from 1945 to 1949. Morover, he was a good friend of Truman's and the two men respected and liked each other; his public criticism of the Hiroshima decision was hardly personal.
A similar puzzle concerns Dwight D. Eisenhower, the triumphant Supreme Commander of the Allied Expeditionary Force who directed British and American operations against Hitler -- and also, subsequently, of course, president of the United States. In the midst of the Cold War -- shortly after his famous Farewell Address criticizing the "military-industrial complex" -- Eisenhower also went public with a statement about the Hiroshima decision. Recalling the 1945 moment when Secretary of War Henry L. Stimson informed him the atomic bomb would be used against Japanese cities, Eisenhower stated:
During his recitation of the relevant facts, I had been conscious of a feeling of depression and so I voiced to him my grave misgivings, first on the basis of my belief that Japan was already defeated and that dropping the bomb was completely unnecessary, and secondly because I thought that our country should avoid shocking world opinion by the use of a weapon whose employment was, I thought, no longer mandatory as a measure to save American lives. It was my belief that Japan was, at that very moment, seeking some way to surrender with a minimum loss of "face"...
Something clearly had caused Leahy and Eisenhower to break the unwritten rule that requires high officials to maintain a discreet silence in connection with controversial matters about which they have special knowledge...
How could it be that what leading military figures believed -- and now many historians had concluded -- was so radically different from what the majority of Americans still believed?

Throughout the half century that has passed since Hiroshima, poll after poll has shown that most Americans think that the bombings were totally justified -- and moreover, that they had saved a very significant number of lives which might otherwise have been lost in an invasion.

Either Leahy, Eisenhower, the Strategic Bombing Survey, and now many modern researchers were totally wrong about the facts -- or the American people had been allowed to believe something that was false. That was the question which now would not go away. Even leaving aside continuing expert differences and the remaining areas of uncertainty, the possibility of some measure of deception -- or at least extraordinary exaggeration -- could not be excluded.
As I began to probe the more puzzling aspects of the record, it also appeared that something besides the usual government classification procedures had been at work. The documentary trail is, in fact, punctuated by numerous quite obvious gaps -- in some cases because apparently no records of important discussions were kept; in others, for reasons that are unexplained. Also, some documents appear to have been hidden or destroyed.

Specialised work being done on certain specific elements of the story by other scholars also pointed to a common problem: Many important documents had evidently been actively suppressed -- and others appeared to have been manipulated in odd ways or even in certain cases systematically rewritten to "improve" the historical record.

It seemed plain that the oddities also turning up in other research (for instance, concerning the suppression of information related to human radiation experimentation) were no accident -- that there was a general problem which needed to be investigated.

The modern term for a process characterized by practices of the kind we are discussing is "cover-up". However, the term is far too blatant and conspiratorial for our purposes. Perhaps the plural form, "cover-ups" might be more appropriate.
The Hiroshima story reminds us that government deceit (even by good men) is hardly a recent invention.

I wish to stress that term: "good men". None of the officials involved in this tale had evil intentions. What can be said of them, I believe, is that some became so taken by the power the atomic bomb seemed to give them to do good (as they defined it) that they seem to have gotten carried away. Stimson put his finger on a key point when he observed privately to his colleague Joseph Grew that they were "very fine men" -- but also that they "should have known better..."
This is not talking about the process of *building* the atomic bomb, which was legitimately secret. This is someone talking as a professional historian about how hard it is to find honest information, even fifty years later in 1995, about the democratic political process of deciding to USE the bomb - the top-level White House memos and correspondence which form the 'public' government, not the secret military 'shadow government'. THAT's the part of the historical record he's focusing on, and he says even THAT is riddled with lies, deception, and even faked documents.

To me, that's really really scary. It's one thing to bomb someone. It's one thing to lie to the enemy in wartime. It's quite another to then falsify the historical record and 'spin' to your own citizens -- because you know they won't accept your real decisions -- to such a degree that fifty (now over sixty) years later, serious historians are still puzzling to sort out the simple truth of 'what did the US President know, and when did he know it?' in 1945. And are admitting that what the public still today believes about how that process occured is, not to put too fine a point on it, a damn lie.

If that's the state of the art of mainstream history when it comes to atomic secrecy, I think we're in fairly good company with some of the rabbit holes we're encountering.

(I still think that article is bullshit, though, in the exact form of conspiracy it alleges. But conspiracies do exist, yes.)
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Re: Hidden but why

Post by Langley »

natecull wrote:My personal reaction to that article is much like Elizabeth's.
America is unique in its openness. Had the Manhattan Project been conducted in England, it would all still be secret with 100 years yet to go. The British and Commonwealth nations define citizens as Subjects of Her Majesty. There's no Bill of Rights. The US is in a quandry when it comes to legitimate secrecy.

However the gaps you point out in the record Nate yea. Good quotations. Regardless of any mere disagreements on the pros and cons.

I'll add this.

1945 Oct 11 New York Times
WASHINGTON, Oct. 10--"The Atomic Energy Act of 1945," drafted by the administration and introduced by Representative May, grants peacetime
powers to Government officials and imposes restrictions on private scientific research and
manufacture beyond any provided in the legislative history of this country
, even when limited to
the period of war.

Did that impact on Dr Brown?

The shadow government exists. And within that, if there is a 5th column, how are the people to know?
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Re: Hidden but why

Post by FM No Static At All »

Here in the US, we tend to believe hat our government serves our best interests and when they keep secrets it is the interest of national security, lest our enemies get an advantage on us. Now I happen to take all conspiracy theories with a healthy does of salt, being that there are so many special interest groups out there with their own political agendas. But one cannot dismiss all such theories as "poppycock" simply because it seems that it is so encompassing as to seem impossible to maintain its secrecy.

The Federal Reserve Act itself was kept secret, its inception was a deception, and the effects of that legislation are being felt in today's economic woes. Now I would like to think that there are those who are looking out for the best interests of all, such as those who were and are members of the TCG and based on all that I have learned about Dr. Brown, he was also coming from a context of what serves the highest good of all mankind.

Ms. Drake and all who find the Tavistock document hard to swallow, all I can offer is this: Look at the levels of misinformation, truths embedded within lies, and the misdirection of projects that Dr. Brown was involved with. If there exists such a "secret government" which I personally see not only as a possibility, but as fact based on knowledge and experience, then it stands to reason that others have conspired to cover there own tracks and deceive the citizenry and the government that is elected to represent them.

Most people when analyzing "stuff" focus on the differences to point out the discrepancies that make one believe more relevant than another. I tend to focus more on the commonalities of opposing "facts" and opinions, to find the threads that bind them all together. Like finding a few diamonds in the tons of coal, those are the points that I tend to focus on. To dismiss the Tavistock document entirely is surely throwing out the baby with the bath water.

It serves the highest interests of all concerned to look at legislation that has been passed, circumventing the foundations of the Constitution, in the name of national security. Most of those laws restrict the very people it is supposed to protect. Such is the case in globalization.

Many manufacturers moved their factories overseas due to the low cost of labor. Now many our returning to the US due to the high cost of shipping, which of course is the result of high fuel costs. There have been rumblings amongst those conspiracy theorists that claim America is headed to a North American Union, with Canada and Mexico. They allege our sovereign nation status is being eroded for that purpose. To me it is easier to swallow that a New World Order scheme which would be difficult to get a nation like Chine to buy into. But that is yet another digression best left omitted here.

My main purpose in posting the Tavistock document was to show how Dr. Brown and the group he was a member of, was not part and parcel to any such schemes but rather was concerned that such other groups would not get technology in their hands that would end life on the planet entirely. I trust that regardless of how much or how little of it you can swallow, it makes the aforementioned point that there are tugs of war going on behind the scenes and we are merely scratching the surface in trying to understand them.

Fred a.k.a.
FM - No Static At All
'The only reason some people get lost in thought is because its unfamiliar territory.'

http://fixamerica-fredmars.blogspot.com/
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Re: Hidden but why

Post by Rose »

Agendas on top of agendas, Langley.

off topic, slightly, but in response to Mr. Twigsnapper's comment:
Sir William was heartless when it came to hunting these situations down and eliminating them.

In the biography of C that I am reading now, Anthony Cave Brown says that Stephenson offered to assassinate Hitler with a long range rifle long before the conflagration went up in Europe. I would have to find the quote, but it left me with the impression that he was volunteering to do it personally, as opposed to having it done. What a different world. What a tiger he was!

rose
Last edited by Rose on Mon Jul 21, 2008 4:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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con-spiring

Post by Griffin »

Hello, fellow conspirators,

Yes, there are conspiracies. In fact, all humans are in a vast worldwide conspiracy since we’re all “breathing together.”

Another monumental conspiracy we’re all involved in, to one degree or another, is the Ignorance League. The remark “should have known better” covers a lot. President Truman, early on in the atomic experience, stated that the A-bomb was “just another piece of artillery.” He had been an artillery officer in WWI, but he still should have known better. General MacArthur was quite cavalier about recommending that numerous atomic bombs be used in Korea. Later, it seems, he came to know better.

FM- Just a reminder about the possibility of being too suspicious.

As ever,

Griffin
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Re: con-spiring

Post by Langley »

Just a quick note to report that the 1942 paper that went missing has been now been located.

It amazes me Rose how many times Hitler survived attempts on his life. Wierd. But that was after the war had gotten properly underway.

There was a documented conspiracy which allowed the suppression of the effects of radiation from the bombs detonated in New Mexico, Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

Which is not to say Trinity sites today is dangerous. However the longer lived fallout products can still be detected in Hiroshima and Nagasaki. In hotspots. Covering the places in bitumen and concrete doesnt hurt either.

Ian Fleming seems to make a point of including a Third Force in his plots. Which may or may not indicate anything. It is often the case that uninvolved nations or constoriums benefit from two sided conflicts.
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Re: Hidden but why

Post by Rose »

constoriums benefit from two sided conflicts.

After the profits from arms and wars come the profits of reconstructions:

'"What the project was, I can tell you very clearly, there's nothing secret about it now, was to develop an agenda whereby all sides, the Muslim and the Christian sides, would come to an agreement on a redevelopment project to where their respective areas would have the same capitalization, and the same benefit to stop the fighting."
CM: "Did this include rebuilding of the infrastructure of Beirut?"
Nichols: "Very definitely."


viewtopic.php?f=13&t=547&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&start=30
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natecull
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Re: Hidden but why

Post by natecull »

Rose wrote: '"What the project was, I can tell you very clearly, there's nothing secret about it now, was to develop an agenda whereby all sides, the Muslim and the Christian sides, would come to an agreement on a redevelopment project to where their respective areas would have the same capitalization, and the same benefit to stop the fighting."
That actually sounds pretty sensible to me. Of course I imagine there would be lots of money in it to the rebuilders - but it's surely better funding peace than war?
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