It's a small world after all.

[Paul S.]

I actually thought maybe things had been quiet over the weekend but... noooo... the activity was just somewhere other than where I was looking...

But its Sunday you know! Paul isn't even plugged in! And if we go wading off he will never be able to find our tracks! So I vote we wait a little for him. Serve him right! And we will push off in the morning? I have alot of notes. You KNOW I have been just waiting for this.

Well, I'm back, feeling a tad overwhelmed but trying to put one foot in front of the other.

Enjoyed "Bourne" yesterday, but still wondering... what exactly was the "Ultimatum" ?

And where did he get the thumb-print to open the safe?

Oh yeah, and... "feeling for the sound of time." That's one of Morgan's mantras to me...

--PS

[Mikado14]

But did you actually think that there would be no interaction with an industry that was counting on the Chinese to physically build railroads for them? The opium trade is a nasty business and always has been but has been used through the centuries. And it was laying tracks in a new country too.

I know you have a warm coat and regard it well, but it couldn't keep out all of the cold. twigsnapper

Yes, I actually thought that. However, if there was an opium trade, as apparently between you and HShort there was, I still can't see the Barons themselves as knowingly doing so directly.

I will keep my warm coat on.....with the collar up and continue on my journey <g>

Mikado

[twigsnapper]

Perhaps it was a matter of comittment. To fire or not to draw and fire. To go there, or not to go there. In this movies case Bourne was misused. But the committment I should think remains for others. For the safety and security of others, what are you prepared to do?And can you do it?

For Morgan the question was .... " Would you draw and fire?" and that Paul was the Ultimatum. And in that world there are only two positions, above ground, or below it. twigsnapper

[Paul S.]

For Morgan the question was .... " Would you draw and fire?" and that Paul was the Ultimatum. And in that world there are only two positions, above ground, or below it. twigsnapper

Which reminds me of the title of a song of somebody who's records I used to sell from my website, whose name I can not even remember now: "Every Day Above Ground Is A Good One."

Now, what about that thumb-print?

--PS

[flowperson]

Hi Paul:

After you're through mucking about in the bottom of the rabbit hole, you should take your hard earned dollars and buy one of these, modify it for alltitude, talk with pappy Dean about lessons and licensing, paint it red, put a '49 Chevy radiator grill on the front, and just have some fun.

http://www.livescience.com/technology/0 ... aucer.html

flow....

[twigsnapper]

Anybody want to ask where a prototype of the Moller unit was stored in 1965-66? twigsnapper

[Paul S.]

Anybody want to ask where a prototype of the Moller unit was stored in 1965-66? twigsnapper

Gee, Mr. T, I was just this minute wondering... where might a prototype of the Moller unit have been stored in 1965-66?

--PS

[twigsnapper]

Just throw a red flag down on that comment for future reference because the answer is pretty far down the line and it is not worth the effort it would take to uncover it at this point. Just remember that the comment was made and go back when the subject turns in that direction. In other words, don't get distracted by my comment. Its for later. twigsnapper

[grinder]

Elizabeth,

You seem to have drawn the conclusion that my Dad was actually working for Wackenhut while he was in Florida ( and probably when that picture of Slicks Mom and he was taken) I have no real date on that at all ,

Maybe you can help me too Slick? I know that it would not have been after 1967 because he was in San Francisco then for a few years anyway. So could it have been late 65? I would guess that she is about 20 maybe in the picture, very pretty.

And Elizabeth what gives you such a solid impression that Dad was working for Wackenhut? The location? The people he was with? Or just a good intuitive hunch on your part?

And if he was maybe a " Caroline security agent" ( and thats what Morgan became too) I wonder if they worked together closely? How odd that would be! Maybe Wackenhut is that the umbrella or cover job that they worked under?

I mean then he could get a check drawn on their banks etc where I just don't know HOW that works with something like the Caroline Group. Although I do remember my Mother bitching once about how long a check of his ( made out to her) took to clear because it was drawn on a Nassau bank.

Too many questions, fewer answers. grinder

[Paul S.]

Too many questions, fewer answers. grinder

And people think I make this stuff up!

-PS

[grinder]

No one has actually ever said that to you, have they.?

How could anyone possibly consider that though I know that its hard to describe what is going on here on the forum to people who are not actually on it, and I know I have had a couple of people actually say " Oh! I wouldn't know what to say on that forum... they are all way too smart to me ... which makes me laugh because I think I have a pretty fair grip on my mental abilities and I for sure am no Einstein ( or his wife <g>)

But there is just no room for " making this stuff up" Its just way too complicated. I can barely keep up with whichever way its going to go next. But I do see where you could be tempted to make some assumptions that might not be easily backed up. Why I appreciate how cautious you are and how many facts you have collected to use as back up. This ain't easy but it would be ALOT harder to make it up! grinder

[Paul S.]

This ain't easy but it would be ALOT harder to make it up! grinder

I just meant that people aren't always sympathetic when I go on about how there are far more questions than answers (and most answers lead to more questions...).

As for the actual content we're dealing with, I agree. Nobody could make this stuff up. Fiction is so much simpler...<g>

--PS

[flowperson]

Well...I guess I would take exception with some of that. I do view questions as a good thing though. The more questions there are, the more accepted reality will become as answers and more questions are obtained. The disordering of reality, or as physicists call it "symmetry breaking", has a lot to do with how universal systems of creation operate. At the human level then I see questions as a very good thing. They keep the engines running. I think of them as fuel.

Now fiction vs.non -fiction writing...I don't know. Knowing something to be true and setting about to write it encased in a story populated with actual characters who are really in disguise on the page, can be a genuine challenge. But of course this only applies to stories based upon a certain degree of historical or scientific fact. That's why the "memoir" genre seems to be causing such upset in the art because it usually blurs the boundaries between fact and fiction Straight out made up stories without concrete context of any kind would probably be simpler to write, and unless the writer is very skilled, more boring than not I think.

Just my two cents.

flow....

[H. Short]

The discussion was about secret groups and conspiracy theories and my response was to try and shed some understanding on what such organizations are about, which is power. Twigsnapper makes references all the time about hard men and making life and death decisions and then acting on them. Most here seem to think that because he can quote poetry from Sappho (?sp) that makes it all quaint and a family movie. It isn't. If Townsend Brown actually developed or was involved in the development of a radical space propulsion device or communication system these things have the potential to overthrow the existing technological paradigm our modern societies are based on - and the corporate / group enities that depend on them for their existence. If these technologies exist and are being controlled by a group then there is a war being fought in the shadows over their control with other groups because it is a matter of control and power and survival. Control of the drug trade is a matter of control and power. Do you really think there is a division here? There is not.

Go back and look again at the posts previous to mine if you think I'm stepping out of line; this is what my post was in response to:

Posted: Sat Aug 04, 2007 5:44 pm Post subject: more questions

Elizabeth, of course you know that last post of yours hit me like a two ton brik.

So I just flipped out and decided to simply type on Google
Cabazon Wackenhut Townsend Brown.

Try it yourself everybody. You are not going to believe this. grinder

Sun Aug 05, 2007 12:11 am Post subject: yet another brown connection
Quote:
1/18/02
MICHAEL YOUNGER, ALLEGED "COM-12" SOURCE, IS DEAD

According to one source, Younger was a friend of Michael Riconosciuto, a
fuel-air explosives expert and a key figure (and witness) in the so-called
"INSLAW" scandal of the early 90s. The "INSLAW" scandal involved the
government's alleged theft of PROMISE software and the subsequent death of
journalist Danny Casolaro who attempted to document the scandal.

Posted: Sun Aug 05, 2007 10:46 pm Post subject: fresh eyes
so here we are with MJ12 as a topic and I am guessing that this is all meant. So head smoking and eyes rolling back .... here we are .... we might as well start talking about all of this.

.... It looks like the Caroline Group? Well, it looks like what others would think might be a big, secret group .... ...... but I think with our eyes NOW we will be able to wade through and see the realities for what they are. It’s a wading trip I am not sure I am up for, but I will go if you all want to.

Posted: Sun Aug 05, 2007 11:01 pm Post subject: You take the first step, right with you

Elizabeth,

If you decide to take the first step into all of this you know that I will be right with you. And I venture to say that I will not be alone.

Use a little bit of logic. Grinder likes to point out that my presentation of information is somewhat deficent at times - he is correct. The reason for that is if a topic and various ramification have been previously discussed there is no need to explicitly detail all the various combinations and possiblities every time the subject is discussed. You can point out the ends of the spread to remind people what it is you're talking about but that should be all that's necessary to those familiar with the discussion. So, here I'll be a little more specific. There are at least three major relevant paradigms regarding this book and T.T. Brown's life:

One: He is that obscure sweet old man who putzed around with the ionic breeze prototype but never made any money off it. He dabbled in some electro-propulsion stuff and made a couple tethered discs fly around a pole while talking about UFOs. About the last thing we know of him is that he worked in the back of one of Jim Lee's labs putzing around on petro-voltaics and finally gave up and went off and died not much later.

Not much to write a book about. Certainly not worth twigsnappers time here unless he is in a looney farm with internet access.

Two: He was a protege of Tesla's (my addition) and helped develop revolutionary space and perhaps trans dimensional craft technologies along with instaneous galactic communication systems along with a host of other revolutionary technology that would turn the world upside down if they were released. He was genius who risked his life and lead a life of deception and mis-direction to keep this knowledge out of the hands of those who would abuse it to the detriment of humankind. This includes foreign governments, international corporations, and secret power groups.

If this were true and these conditions still existed and these powers that be thought for one moment Paul was going to expose them or the technology he would have a tragic accident or suffer a tragic heart attack or stroke. Did you see the reference to the death of the reporter above? There were actually five or more deaths related to that case. You all want to be reading Paul's obituary some day soon??

Three: Two above is correct except now for whatever reasons the power struggle is ended and the technology or the knowledge involved with it is under the absolute control of those who want it put to use for the common good.

This is the only scenerio (of the three any way) that makes any sense, with Paul under no threat, and a hell of a book at the end.

There is another possiblity of course, which is that Paul, and EHD, and twigsnapper and others are just pulling our chain because he's really doing a pscyh research study on group interaction dynamics over the internet. I don't mind. He told me who was behind the design of that lovely submarine so I'll cut him some slack.

[H. Short]

I have almost always enjoyed your posts but I need to ask a question or two. You have no "place" listed on your profile of where you hail, and I thought I wanted anonymity, however, you mention the robber barons. The period of the Robber Barons...

I think part of the issue here is summed up in the fact that I wrote robber barons in small case and you capitalized it. Difference between generic and specific meanings.

But in any case I don't have to dig up the material as twigsnapper suggests, the information is out there in quite a few books which are very well referenced. For starters, look at US companies and individuals associated with the British Chinese trading companies. Just what is it you think all those Clipper ships were hauling?