It's a small world after all.

[SLicK-G]

Hello to all. I was told to take a look at the forums for Townsend Brown. As for him, I did not know, but know his family. I grew up with his granddaughter and her mom was one of the people who taught me how to ride horses. Kind of funny to mention that. I read a few comments on Dean Franklin and how he had taught a few fathers how to fly including Howard Hughes. Well, he didn't teach Mr. Hughes how to fly an airplane, but how to fly a seaplane. How I know this. Dean Franklin is my grandfather. Yes, he is still alive and still as sharp as a tack. I was just with him this past April for a few days. Everytime I see him, I always ask about his stories. And what stories he could tell. My mom, prior to her death in 1999, had some very interesting stories of her own. It was just odd to see my grandfather brought up in the forum of some close friends of mine.

How small can the world get?

[Martin Calloway]

You are right SLicK G , it is indeed a very small world. I am fascinated that you got to know the Brown family so well and yet there is a connection also with Mr. Franklin.

You are right! What grand stories he could probably tell! And the greatest thing would be that as adventurous as those stories could get, they would all be true! Next time you happen to talk to him say hello from an old glider friend. ( with bullet holes in my tail!) He might remember me.

I am sorry that you lost your Mom. Never easy.

Welcome to this forum!

When you get a chance could you recount some of the things that your Mom or your Grandfather told you? Did she ever fly with her Dad? Would she have known about any of the people that Paul has mentioned here in his book? I am thinking of Sir William Stephenson particularly. Knowing some of the mans habits, he only flew with the best and at Chalks Airlines your grandfather was the absolute best.

My regards, Martin

[SLicK-G]

Yes, my mom flew with my grandfather quite often. And so did my brother and I. She had also gotten her pilotes liscense. She used to use the seaplanes for her hours. My brother and I would be strapped in the back seats. No babysitter needed. She spoke of many flights to Bimini and Paradise Island. When you got my mom and my grandfather together, we were always amazed at things that had happened. My grandfather told me a story of how Mr. Hughes had bought one of his seaplanes (or as some people know them by - amphibious planes). Then forgot to pay him. He then ran into him some time later and Mr. Hughes asked if he had payed him for the plane. Mr. Hughes then pulled out his billfold and paid my grandfather cash. In fact, I think my grandfather is one of the last pioneers of seaplanes. If not the last. He was also one of the greatest mechanics anyone could come by. He knew the ins and outs of the seaplanes. Owned all the blueprints and parts to the planes themselves. I could go on and on about Chalks and Pappy Chalks. My grandfather's business a part of Grumman Aviation. My mom also worked there alongside my grandfather. I can remember some of the pilots, like Bob Hanley, may he rest in peace. What a wonderful person he was. I will end my typing for now, but will check back often. I can tell some of what his stories were about, but not all. For some of them, there was always something left out or not spoken of. I don't press the issues, for I respect my grandfather and what he has to offer. He is my hero and always will be.

[Victoria Steele]

Welcome Slick!

Thanks for sharing your thoughts about your Mom and Grandfather. How wonderful that must have been flying with your Mom like that! She must have been a special lady!

I'll be watching the posts too looking for more from you.

Can you imagine having a person pay in cash for an airplane! Damn, how come people who happen to owe me ten dollars find the other side of the street?

So, I think its interesting and mysterious that you would feel that your Grandfather just maybe was leaving stuff out in his stories that he related to his family. That in itself is fascinating!

There are alot of us here who are really interested in the stories that are wrapped up in early Nassau and those flying boats. Its great if you can share any stories or impressions or just theories. Thanks for coming on board. Victoria

[grinder]

Hi SLick G

I am REALLY pleased that you have posted this information.

Can I ask what years it happened to be that your Mom flew with your grandfather?

Like I said earlier in a post (that I hope you read), I have somewhere (though right now not sure where it is) a photo I think of your mom and my Dad standing beside Mr. Franklin. I believe they are in Nassau from the background in the picture.

I ask about the years because I don't know if the girl in the photo was my Dads "date" at the time or.... Mr. Franklins daughter .... or .... both .... or .... neither .... Maye she was just another passenger. No, they were either dating, or good friends, or worked together good friends from the body language in the picture. I noticed that because I got jealous for my Mom .... but of course she hadn't even met my Dad then so all was fair. Still, a mystery that made me keep that picture. I had two pictures that I kept for that same reason. Both shots had included in them women who were not my Mom and that bugged me. One was just a shot of his simple bedroom I guess with a cat stretched out on his bed. Non descript but I couldn't help notice that on his nightstand was a picture of a girl. It took me years to figure out who that was and I kept the picture the whole time. And now I think I might be closing in on knowing about the other girl. This is great. Its like finding clues to my Dads life, the one he never talked about. One of the holes in the stories that you mentioned.

I didn't ever know too much about what my Dad was doing during those earlier years. He didn't meet my Mom until San Francisco in 1967 (And the rest is history as they say) ( come to San Francisco, wear Flowers in Your Hair resulted in ..... me ..... Hello!)

But that photo always represented just the tip of the iceburg on what his activities were. The girl in the photo was pretty, her hair cut in what I think they called a "Pixie" back then. A girlfriend gave me THAT little bit of useful information. Could that girl have been your Mom?

And maybe in this story of daughters working right beside their fathers just MAYBE your Mom and my Dad were working for the same organization? PM me if you want or lets just talk openly on the forum. If we do that maybe someone else can help us out with the mysteries.

But you are right. Some things they just " leave out." Nice to meet you!
Can I call you Slick? grinder.

[Elizabeth Helen Drake]

Welcome SLick G,

I am sorry that I missed seeing your post right away. I TRY to be he "welcome wagon" around here but it looks like others beat me to the punch! The message is the same. THANKYOU for joining and we are looking forward to any comments that you might have regarding ANYTHING actually. Another voice here is always appreciated! Its special that you can share memories and stories of your Grandfather and Mother. You can see already that it means alot to all of us, each of us for different reasons. Those seaplanes were a BIG part of Catalinas history as well as Nassaus.

So do you think that your grandfather might have had dealings with some really interesting people we could talk about? Anyone who wanted to fly to Nassau actually pretty much went through him so I wonder if he ever mentioned any stories of CIA agents? A Mr. X? Maybe ( William Stephenson was a slight gentleman, silverhaired who always carried a cane with a gold handle on it, sound familiar? Anything more you can tell us about Mr. Hughes? And one last question! Why is it that your family moved to Catalina?

I am thinking that your horseback riding experiences with Linda Brown must have happened on Catalina, so I just wondered when you moved there and why. ts always interesting to me why people move to different parts of the country and you have to admit that Catalina is a unique destination.

How old were you when you started to ride? I am assuming that you lived there after moving from Miami? So maybe you remember something more of the Browns on Catalina? Questions, questions, questions! Thanks in advance for anything you can share! Elizabeth

[SLicK-G]

First I want to thank people for their welcomes. It's nice to be accepted.

As for my grandfather leaving out things in his stories. Is that there was so much to his stories that I don't think everything could be said at once. There was just so much excitement in some of them that all the detail couldn't all be remembered. To hear them, it's like living in a different time. You can get lost in them and believe that you were there.

As for my mom. Depends on date on what her age would be. I wish she was here to ask or have her join in this discussion.

Now about Catalina. My mom had remarried and moved my grandmother, brother and I to California. That was June '75. We lived in Granada Hills for a short time. Then my step-dad bought his father's businesss on Catalina. We moved there in December '75. The business that he bought was making heating elements and heat sensors, that were used in the space race. The name of the business was Morand Enterprises and Navigation Electronics Corporation. Kind of odd how a manufacturing plant of this type to be on a small rock in the pacific. And where a Scientist was living. That's where I met Linda and her daughter. It was Jennifer's pony that I rode for the first time in my life. I took lessons later that year, during the summer. From then on, it was all about horses. Not much else to do on Catalina. We lived there for about 8 years. My parents had then moved the business from Catalina to the desert. I have kept in touch with Linda and her daughter. In fact her daughter was my Maid of Honor at my wedding.

And like I questioned this before. How small can this world get? To know a family for more than 30 years and stay close with them. To reading about my Grandfather on the forums on a book that is being written about her father.

[flowperson]

Hi Slick...I'm sure looking forward to your great perspectives on the historicity of all this, and your wise observations regarding Mr. Franklin's experiences. And, I'm just another desert rat...on the Nevada side.

flow....

[grinder]

I am so sorry Slick! for the first couple of messages I thought that you were a guy! But its hard to be a guy and have a Maid of Honor so I have to put a different head on here because my other one just exploded. Thats what can happen when you just assume stuff I guess. But something more is happening here than simple challenges of identity.

First I thought ..... maybe your step dads firm was WHY Townsend Brown moved to Catalina. I mean. You gotta admit its like beyond strange that there would be a place like that so isolated. But wait. If you moved there because your step dad bought out his fathers business .... then IT WAS established there before Dr. Brown moved over. And suddenly I am getting this REALLY strange feeling that we are on to something here.

Navigation Electronics Corporation. Is that what the firms name was again? Yes, thats what you wrote Morand Enterprises Electronics Corporation. HEAT SENSORS USED IN THE SPACE RACE?

You are right Slick ( can I still call you that maybe, I sorta like it,) This is like big time ODD here! Lets keep going on this , can we? I think we just found some hidden connections here.

I really would like to hear more about your Moms adventures with your grandfather when you have a chance. And if you are perhaps still in contact with Linda Brown give her our very best. grinder

[ladygrady]

I had wondered quite often too why Dr. Brown would have set up a research station on Catalina Island. I mean, there should be NOTHING there as a support system. All goods come by seaplane or by boat ( or barge someone told me) So why in the world would he be somewhere where he had to wait to get somehing shipped from Los Angeles. Unless he had everything he needed THERE.

And that certainly begs the question. How much of a help was Slicks family in this whole operation. An operating organization making something for satellites. Go with me now in unison WHAT!!!!!!!

Of course if there was never any interaction between that Morand Navigation and Townsend Brown I would call it coincidence but I just have the feeling that was NOT the case. That this was all a plan that had been worked out ahead of time. I don't know where Dr. Brown was before this move but I would wager that he moved for convenience ( Morand) and security. ( The best security is not being somewhere when people go looking. This is just getting better and better. Like a ball of yarn that is coming undone after so many years.

[grinder]

Slick,

I just wondered if your step Father had some sort of contract that you might have known about. If he was making something for satellites was he contracted with NASA or some major firm? Would be curious to find out wo it was. You don't usually make parts like that for your own benefit. do you? grinder

[Victoria Steele]

Another lady on the forum! How great is that!

And a rider too! Great! I used to ride alot more than I do now. Was raised in Texas and had this little shaggy pony that could really hold up her own end in the cattle pens. What she couldn't shoulder to turn ,she bit! I really admired her. My Grandfather said that I learned alot from that little mustang and I always wondered how I should take that!

So you learned on Lindas pony? ... or rather Jennifers pony?. Wonderful little things. So much smarter than a horse and tougher too. My little mare was about 12 hands, a palomino. In the summer when she shed out she was really pretty. I used to imagine that she saw herself as the end result of a long line of conquistador horses from Spain and with her color my Grandfather said I might be pretty close to the truth. I guess they really valued gold horses. Course, unfortunately I think they liked GOLD period.

What was it like to ride on Catalina? Did you ever have horse shows? or just trail riding. What was it like to ride with Buffalo around?

Paul ? Can I ask Slick here to tell me a little bit about the horse that Linda rode? Did she have her own or did they just have Jennifers pony. From what we have read before horses and riding meant alot to Linda and I just wondered if she was able to continue her interest on the island?

Can we discuss that without invading Lindas privacy? I know that there is probably a line out there somewhere and I don't want to take the conversation into what she would consider private territory. I just think its cool that there is someone on the forum that used to actually ride with Linda and her daughter and I'd like to learn more about that, just from a personal interest. Virginia lost a really good rider I think when this lady left that area. Victoria

[Trickfox]

Hello, I'm the trickfox....
I'm an extremely happy go lucky man searching for the most important technology on Earth. I tend to get way too complex at times, but I assure you I am a critical thinker living on the very edge of the paranormal.
Can't say that I've seen or experienced anything of the kind just yet but them I'm too busy to notice these things anyway. Here is a you-tube of some music I like.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-sFK0-lcjGU&NR=1

Welcome SlicK-G
Trickfox

[grinder]

Hi Slick,

I just wanted you to know that I am starting to tear my place apart looking for that photo. I remember it so well, I THINK..... I should be able to find it because I had it in my hands probably less than 5 years ago and I would never have thrown it out, so its here somewhere.

My Dad was in the Navy ( maybe in the late fifties, early sixties. I think at the time he was stationed at Key West. Thats all I know about that. Found some old pictures that he left behind. Wish he had dated them. Some were obviously the keys. Hard to miss that highway over the water and the color of it!

He actually never told me he was in the Navy, my Mom said that he had told her thats where he spent a few years, but again not much more than that. I have always assumed he was in some sort of intelligence work. Why else would he be so closed mouthed about all of that? Mom I guess asked him what he did and his basic answer was a laugh and a " can't tell, don't ask" And thats the way things continued to be between them until one day she simply packed his stuff and put all of it outside the door. Never saw him again.

So I sure hope the lady in the picture was your Mom. I thought for awhile that it might have been taken in Hawaii but there were seaplanes in the back and with Mr. Franklins reputation in the Miami area I am assuming thats the place, or Nassau. Soon as I find it I'll get it off to you somehow so that we can double check.

Your Mom wasn't in the service, was she? grinder

[SLicK-G]

Well, lets see what my brain can remember this time. I don't think that my grandfather worked for any agencies or anything. I don't think he would talk about it if he did. But I do know that he loved flying and met some very importand and well known people.

As far as Catalina is concerned. Morand Enterprises did some work that was on one of the rockets to outerspace (that just sounds weird), think it may have gone to the moon. I know that, because there was a newspaper article that hung in the plant on Catalina. It was a picture of my stepdad (Verne) and his father (Arnold). Arnold was the original owner of Morand Ent. and sold it to Verne. From what I could gather from my sources, was that it was started in the late 50s early 60s. I'm not sure if Arnold knew Townsend, but then Arnold knew everyone that lived on the island. He was a long time resident, something like 35+ years. He also owned a hamburger place on front street, called the Busy Bee. After work, he would go down there and just sit with his wife chatting to all of the islanders.

The strange thing that I was involved with, in the business, was my hair. I had really long hair (i could actually sit on it). But my mom would take the hair from the hair brush and use them for their wire. I guess hair is a very good conductor of electricity. Well, they would hang weights on them to pull them straight and apply some sort of glue or as I would call it back then, a clear gooey looking liquid. It smelled alot like model glue but even more pungent. There weren't too many people who worked at the plant there. And Verne did a lot of work by himself.

Then in late 82, my parents moved the plant off of the island, to Banning, CA. They still did work for the government and the space technology. I know that they had heat sensors on the space shuttles. Because, when the Challenger accident happened. NECO Heat was investigated for the sensor. Nothing came of it, because it had done it job and sent a signal that something wrong. Not sure what really happened after that. Verne then sold the business to Adel Wiggings in East LA and worked for them for a few more years and retired. He was there when they rebuilt the Wing, not sure if it was the small one or the larger one. But he brought home pictures of it flying after the completion. So, not exactly what all Adel Wiggins did, but do know that their place was used to put a plane together. And the only other thing I can remember hearing, was that Verne worked for Lockheed and or Northrup. And that he would get magazines for McDonald Douglas. I wish I could get more information, but I don't talk to him much anymore. Kind of went different ways the last few months.

Now back to the island and the horse scene. It was one of the most wonderful things to do. I did some small horse shows, when they had them. Hung out at the stables probably about 250 days a year. The other days I was prabably grounded. We rode all over the interior of the island. It was a stable the rented horses and most of the boarders were kids. So we would take off to the interior to go swimming in one of the hidden lakes. Pretty close to where the fire started earlier this year. Then the owner of the stables would take us little brats out on camping trips to the far end of the island. He would take us to the twin harbors. There we would take our horses swimming in the ocean. Can you imagine swimming with your horse while little nurse sharks would scatter around their feet. It was just a blast. The buffalo wertn't too much of a problem. the only ones you had to watch out for was the cows and their newborns. Just don't get between them or you just might end up on your butt. And the lone bulls. Well, how would you feel if you were just kicked from the herd and left all alone during your hormonal growth. They were pretty testy. We just kept our distance. I was only charged by one. And it lasted all of about 2 seconds. They give up pretty easily if your faster then they are. But that is how I got lost into my own little world, living on a rock that was 26 miles off the coast of California. And one of the few ways to keep out of trouble. In fact, when we moved to Catalina, they were still using operators to connect calls. Not too many people today would believe that it continued into the later part of the 20th century. They museum on the island has one of the last operator switchboards. There is a lot of history about the island and the surrounding islands.

There is San Clemente Island, that was used by the airforce and navy, for live round practice. Could that be another factor into any of this. There was even a jet crash from one of the units, that was just a hair too low, and didn't quite make it over the hill. And there is also the research lab between the Isthmus and Avalon. It has one of the only hyperbaric chambers within quick reach of the scuba area amongst the islands and So. Calif. I believe it was called Catalina Island Marine Institute (CIMI for short).

Not sure if any of this can help anyone, or just confuse the hell out of them, or just cause some more spinning of the wheels in the brain. I've tried to pay a lot of attention to my surroundings and the information given to me. If I can think of anything else. I will write it down, so I don't forget. Just writing here, brought back some of the things that were around the island.

So, I will end my new info for all to read and absorb, and check back in later.

Slick