Chapter 61: Will You Please Come With Us

[Trickfox]

Ladygrady

The trickfox is busy up in Canada trying to get some more info on the man. Stay tuned, we are bound to get more info some day soon here.
It's been difficult trying to sort out truth from fiction when it comes to A.V. Roe Inc. I'm looking up some "ministry" angles too. I heard "the minister of everything" was in charge at the time, so I'm carefully trying to look up anything he might have been involved with during the dates in question (hopefully without splashing too much in the pool).

Trickfox

[Paul S.]

Or are there alot of "viewers" to the site, suddenly. Is this an automatic "bot" attack? or (more likely?) are these new readers?

Numbers all day on the forum site since you posted have been ebbing and flowing, getting up to 75 at one point, and I just wondered if this was just a fluke or some sort of response to this last chapter.

I have been remiss in "pruning" the member lists of "non-activate" registrants. I don't know why the bots hit this site so heavily -- they're NOT getting in, really -- but I just deleted 751 "members" that had not been activated.

I don't doubt that there are some new readers lurking about, but if they want to be members of the forum, they have to contact me directly or their registration will just be purged.

I need to do that more often; I also need to spend some time looking at the real visitor stats, which I also rarely do...

I don't even know who Miethe was in all this but he had to have been pretty darned important.

Grady, there is a hyperlink under Miethe's name at the end of Chapter 61; click that and it will take you back to the "Foo Fighters" chapter where he was mentioned previously.



--PS

[ladygrady]

I played the sort of game that you are playing too LBL. Thats what makes this book so much of a wonder as far as encouraging its readers to learn things. You HAVE to just to keep up with the subject. And , getting ahead of Paul, and maybe being able to contribute something! Now that would be a rare joy!

I thought too about what Mr. Twigsnapper had said and then remembered too that he probably WANTS us to know where he spent the winter but for some reason is bound by some oath somewhere not to.tell anyone But look at the hints that he dropped!

Tolstoy! Warmer weather?

You are right though, which Tolstoy? But he did mention something sort of rare. He mentioned a warmer winter than Europe was experiencing, and, leave it to the rogue that he was at the time I think, the quality of the women of the area! He mentioned a blending of Greek heritages and characteristics but he called it ... "Ancient Greek", didn't he? So I expect he was in an area that was part of the old trade routes.

Securing a better map! Following your suggestions! And I thought the same "who was your companion?" But I doubt that we will see an answer to that? Maybe it was a woman? Ah! Now that makes a whole lot of sense!

We KNOW where the prisoner of war camp was, I just haven't found it on a map yet. And after getting their man out they apparently hooked up on that ancient trade route and headed through Iran. It seems a great distance but actually is not. And where would be a better place to "gather intelligence"while you are waiting for the winter to be over than that area right after the war? Can you imagine what a hotbed of spies from all points that was? Remember all of that oil! Perhaps, still is? grady

[flowperson]

Hello All:

Kevin and EHD, don't forget that "higher dimensions" imply "lower dimensions". Nature ALWAYS seeks balance above all.

Another gem Paul...keep up the good work ! I found an interesting piece today on my usual trolling-news-sites activities. It seems to fit in with the end-of-WWII stories that you and Mr. T have been so diligent in telling us here. Here tis:

flow....

http://www.latimes.com/news/obituaries/ ... obituaries

[greggvizza]

Something just occurred to me as soon as I posted that last message...

T Brown - lung problems + history of high voltage work

R Miethe - lung problems + history of high voltage work

hmmm

LBL

High Voltage = Ozone.

Ozone = Lung Problems

GV

[twigsnapper]

Ah, you ladies know a man of my ... what was the expression Paul recently used? stripe?

Paul really didn't have the time to mention other "raids" that were happening regarding " persons of importance" Lets see ... besides The Americans trying to scoop engineers and scientists up before the Russians "got to them" ( That was a good chip to play, by the way. Discussions often went something like this ..." Would you like to come to the United States and work for us? The returning question was something like " What would I be allowed to do, can my family come, what would I be paid?" If things got bogged down there was always the prod ..." The Russians are three days away. That generally pretty much sealed the deal. But even when the Americans had someone "secured" they were prone to "raids" By the English, the French ... trying to sway the newcomers opinion of their new homes and to get them to switch plans. And then of course.... were the interservice raids. The Army Air corps was stealing from the Army itself .... the Navy from whatever .... and then of course you had the French who were saying " We don't care how bad you were in the service of Hitler. There is always the Legion and you can go fight some more in China. Many of the really hard core Nazi scientists and soldiers took them up on it.

But by the next year whoever had been grabbed was not as fluid and the fights returned to sheer information.

Where did I stay? Palm Trees. twigsnapper

[twigsnapper]

Thank you for this flow. More helpful having more than one viewpoint of the age.
This is from the link you offered :


One of Todd's notable achievements was saving the Mathematical Research Institute at Oberwolfach in Germany at the end of World War II. The Admiralty had received information that a group of mathematicians was being held prisoners of war in a hunting lodge originally built by a wealthy American in the Black Forest.

After wandering through Germany for a month, Todd and a colleague, G.E.H. Reuter, reached the site in July 1945 and found that it was, indeed, occupied by a group of mathematicians — one of them a British citizen — who were performing mathematical calculations for the Germans.

The University of Freiburg had moved its books and other records there, along with mathematicians "who were in trouble in various ways," Todd said.

When the rescuers arrived, Todd placed a notice on the door "that this place is the property of the British Navy," he said.

A commotion ensued over the weekend when a group of Moroccan soldiers on a foraging mission arrived at the door planning to seize the facility.

Todd put on his elaborate uniform and his gun, and sent them away, telling them that he had already seized the lodge.

"They would have burned all the books if I had let them in," he said.

"It was like a Gilbert and Sullivan opera," he later said, but "this was probably the best thing I ever did for mathematics."

After he returned to London with his uniform pockets full of mathematical books written in Germany during the war, Todd went to Paris because the French controlled the German zone where the institute was located. He persuaded French officials to leave the facility in peace, and it has since become a noted institute. "

I only need to add Don't forget the women! Olga Taussky being one of them. twigsnapper

[grinder]

Lemme get this straight Flow. you just "happened" across this article about a matematician that we have never even considered. And it gives us this wonderful substantiation of EXACTLY what Mr. Twigsnapper has been telling us all along and suddenly this all looks so cosmically wierd.

Two companions which just Happen to be looking for a particular place and particular people ..... save valuable math books from being burned. Who are these guys? Working for the English Admiralty on degausing? looks like and WHERE HAVE WE HEARD THIS BEFORE. This is just flipping wierd.

And then they mention Todds wife and Mr. Twigsnapper comes up out of the deep dark blue and says again " Don't forget the women!" so I take that as good a prod as I am going to get to look her up too ..... Olga Taussky. Never heard of her, but that is going to change. Hot on some trail, don't have a clue where its leading. grinder

[grinder]

You start mentioning MATH to me and my palms start to sweat so its sort of hard to understand how some can get so much joy out of it. But I know that you would understand Trickfox and maybe Mr. Kitselman would have understood this ladies contributions. I did find a couple of things that caught my attention. I thought this expression was sort of special and reminded me alot of Dr. Brown. A certain determination and joy in the work

"... from early childhood on, poetry and writing came to me in a natural way. But it seems to me that both in the work of others and in my own I look for beauty, and not only for achievement. ... a person who started with the enthusiasm that came to me and did not diminish through hardships, difficulties, and disappointments 'is not given a choice' and 'shadows of the future one does not see'."

http://www-history.mcs.st-and.ac.uk/his ... -Todd.html

So I guess what I am doing here is throwing a red flag down for someone else to note, if its appropriate, later. Over my head generally, though I did notice that she spent some time at Bryn Mawr and there was some talk of her work with airfoil something something.... and matrix something something and I thought just maybe I happened to see a bunny tail go by. grinder

[Elizabeth Helen Drake]

I noted this

http://www.cacr.caltech.edu/Todd/biography/

I don't know WHAT we are onto here folks but I am seeing some really familiar ground and even the name Wright comes up ( I believe the father of Peter Writght but I may be mistaken this early on. I just wanted all of you to see this in hopes that some other inspirations might just fall on somebodys head here. Thanks for looking at this and adding your comments........................................................from the link........

"Oberwolfach" is a place now well known to mathematicians, the site of a (National) Research Institute founded by Wilhelm S? 1944; the present director is Professor Martin Barner. There are several articles and various reports describing some of the activities at Oberwolfach (see, e.g., [1] and [4]). "1945" was the time of the end of the war in Europe.

I want to tell you briefly about my contacts with Oberwolfach in 1945. At that time, after various misassignments, I had organized, in the Department of Scientific Research and Experiment (SRE) of the British Admiralty (later known as the Royal Naval Scientific Service), a group called the Admiralty Computing Service (ACS) which was to help with mathematical and computational problems arising within the Admiralty. The Director of SRE was Sir Charles E. Wright, who had been on the Scott expedition to the South Pole and who died recently in Canada. I was responsible to (the late) Sir John Carroll, an Assistant Director, who was an astronomer and physicist.

The ACS in London included

G.E.H. Reuter (currently Professor at Imperial College, London)

Alan Baxter (killed in an air crash in 1947)

and the main computations were carried out in Bath under the direction of

D. H. Sadler, Superintendent, H.M. Nautical Almanac Office.

Among the consultants were N. Aronszajn, W. G. Bickley, E. T. Copson, J. Cossar, A. Erdelyi, H. Kober, and J. C. P. Miller. Our secretary rejoiced in the name Bee Quick. Accounts of the work of ACS by Erdelyi, Sadler, and myself were published in MTAC [6] and Nature [3], [5], and by B. W. Conolly in JRNSS [2].

As the European war was drawing to an end, plans were made to collect information and scientists, e.g., in rocketry and atomic weapons. Among the targets was a Dr. Hellmuth Walter, an expert on rocket engines. It came to pass that Dr. Alwyn Walther was brought to London by mistake. Mrs. Todd (who was then working in aerodynamics for the Ministry of Air-Craft Production) and I, among others, were asked to interrogate him. We found that he carried with him, as a safe conduct, a photograph of himself and Courant, walking arm in arm. We learned of the existence of Oberwolfach from him.

Business was not as brisk at the Admiralty then as it had been earlier, so Baxter, Reuter, Sadler, and I conceived an intelligence mission to investigate mathematics in Germany, and in particular, at Oberwolfach. Our scientific findings were duly reported through the proper channels. What I am now reporting is in the nature of informal social history; and, after over 30 years, many incidents have become rather vague.

We know our way around Whitehall, and before the week was out we were officers in the Royal Navy Volunteer Reserve, with open orders and maps of all Germany. To deal with radar matters, we added Fred Hoyle to our team. We got all our shots in one day, rather than over several months, and flew to Brussels. We were rather curiously attired: khaki battle dress with navy epaulettes and hats - the uniform of the Royal Marine Commandos (=Rangers)..................................................................

STOPPING HERE FOR A BREATH. Uniform of the Royal Marine Commandos? An intelligence mission to investigate mathematics in Germany? It was MRS TODD who interogated an individual and found an important link. I don't know how this is all going to weave into our story of Townsend Brown but I have this nagging hunch that all of this fell in on us for a reason. I am just waiting now for the other shoe to drop?

Paul? Any word from Mr. Kitselmans daughters? do any of these names look at all familiar to them? Taussky-Todd especially? Math is not my deal either so I am reacting like grinder, sweating palms! Elizabeth

[Victoria Steele]

Elizabeth,

I especially liked this part.

We know our way around Whitehall, and before the week was out we were officers in the Royal Navy Volunteer Reserve, with open orders and maps of all Germany. To deal with radar matters, we added Fred Hoyle to our team. We got all our shots in one day, rather than over several months, and flew to Brussels. We were rather curiously attired: khaki battle dress with navy epaulettes and hats - the uniform of the Royal Marine Commandos (=Rangers)..................................................................

We "Know our way around Whitehall?".... before the week was out .... we were officers??????? with OPEN ORDERS?????? and maps of all Germany????? Royal Marine Commandos?????? Wasn't that Mr. ORileys "official" designation??????? Could there possibly be a connection here? This was happening in July? When did Mr. Twigsnapper get back on the trail of that "particular" scientist?

The other thing I caught. " The Lodge of a wealthy American in the Black Forrest???? sheltering math experts???? should I look in that direction Mr. Twigsnapper????? something is ihappening here and we don't know what it is, do we, Mr. Jones? Victoria

[flowperson]

As has been said elsewhere here, entanglements and interconnectedness reign in the universe. But one must not lose sight of the ball of yarn whilst unravelling the threads.

As Kevin says quite often "Fibonacci is king" and as I say to myself more often, all the threads of the universe are somehow and somewhere harmonized in time.

Thanks all for your responses. Let's continue unraveling the threads whilst keeping the whole intact. Write on !

flow....

[Elizabeth Helen Drake]

Is that what you call it Mr. Twigsnapper? When a hound picks up a scent and takes off , calling to the others? Try this everybody. Do you see what I see?

Todd: My colleagues and I. We got permission. We were put by the navy in a crazy uniform, with navy hats and epaulets. The war was just ending. I made up a team, and the team included one of my colleagues at the Admiralty computing service--Reuter, who happened to be the son of the future Lord Mayor of Berlin. He had come to Britain much earlier, and was a real English public school boy. And Fred Hoyle joined this group. We got all our shots in one day, and we went to Mainz, I think, because they had quarters there. And Fred Hoyle got so sick that we had to send him home. [Laughter] Anyway, we finally found this center. First Reuter said he wants to see where he was born. He was born in Magdeburg. And so we went and found it. [Laughter] We had permission to do anything, you see. And he saw his house where he was born. Then the Russians were just coming in, so we didn't go any further east. So we went round and round. And finally, the team was only Reuter and myself. And we got to this place in the Black Forest. We found it. It was in the French Zone. This turned out to be a hunting lodge originally, which some wealthy American had built. The University of Freiburg had evacuated their books and things there, and then collected mathematicians who were in trouble in various ways.

http://www.cacr.caltech.edu/Todd/biogra ... rview.html

Catch what I saw? The name Magdeburg. Is this just coincidence? thinking not. Do I get points Mr. Twigsnapper? Elizabeth

[greggvizza]

In the bio of Olga Taussky-Todd http://www-history.mcs.st-and.ac.uk/his ... -Todd.html

I noticed this:

“For example she published in 1944 A note on skew-symmetric matrices in which she discussed the form of the matrices X'X and XX', where X' is the transpose of the matrix X whose columns are the eigenvectors of a skew-symmetric matrix with distinct eigenvalues.â€

[kevin.b]

Whilst the hounds are busy tracking the war years, don't forget they are chasing mathmaticians, and later in TIME Dr Brown settles upon 19.5 degrees.

http://www.korncirkler.dk/cccorner/universe2.html

It was Mr Twigsnapper that started a crop circle thread?
Kevin