Chapter 59: The Whole Deal

Use this section for any discussion specifically related to the chapters posted online of the unfolding biography, "Defying Gravity: The Parallel Universe of T. Townsend Brown
ladygrady
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dragons and brick walls

Post by ladygrady »

I am recopying this message from kevin to Gregg and I want you all to look carefully at some of the phrases kevin has used here. For me, besides wonderful words of guidance there are some words that are calling again and again to us. See them? grady******************

Greggvizza,
Your comment about having to think to maintain balance, is all a dowser does, whatever you think of with intent and balance is attracted to you, not the concrete physical, but the meta physical.
Everything is connected to everything else, most people have built up a brick wall around themselves of insulation.
When we are young that insulation is minimal, mine has been knocked down, brick by brick, its comfortable inside your little castle, and there are many dragons roaming about outside, thing is they are big pussycats, if you talk to them, they love it. fear is all there is to fear.
Kevin
*******************************************
BRICK WALL, DRAGONS and the lesson that is given here has been knocking on our castle door for a very long time. Come out come out ... there are wondrous things here, we should not be afraid. Be as bold and as connected as a child again! grady
kevin.b
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Post by kevin.b »

Ladygrady,
Thank you.
I have a huge respect for those upon this forum, you are all facing upto stepping outside the comfort zone of rational thinking, and are allowing yourselves to contemplate that which usually invites ridicule.
I am well used to ridicule, it is a powerfull weapon.
I have just been barred from the thunderbolts forum, I assumed as they want to show the electrical universe that they too were ready to step up the game, I assumed wrong.
They declared me a" complete nutcase", it made me smile.
We have evolved and adapted to survive, and that has all been in the confines of a sort of castle with huge defences around it, with fear of what is outside those walls keeping us confined, its time to blow the horns and melt away the defences, watch out for the rationalists, the PROVE IT's, they are a well organised and powerfull bunch.
They use language as a lance, its all about balance, part rational, part instinct, trust your instincts, they are connected to one huge fabulous matrix that loves you.
kevin
fibonacci is king
kevin.b
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Post by kevin.b »

Ladygrady,
The time of your last post said 2.45pm, I take it that is Eastern sea board time?
Is the time shown upon this forum relative to the time zone we are posting from?
It is 19.56 here now.
Kevin
fibonacci is king
Mikado14
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Re: cord

Post by Mikado14 »

Langley wrote:
When I woke up, the bed and my body was bouncing, oscillating like a big weight had been dropped on it.

I dont expect many people to believe this, but there it is. I didnt see the silver chord, which apparently is only visible when the astral is close to the physical.
What you experienced for lack of a better term was astral shock(sort of like the snapping of a rubber band). It is the forced resynchronization of the physical body and the astral body. Bet you very well may have had a headache for awhile or a feeling of not belonging if not just plain feeling disconnected. Did you see or feel the presence of any other cord?

Obviously, I do believe you.

Mikado

(and the cord does have a limit and you should try going to the moon)

**The following is an edit from the future, not the past, for if it were the past then this post would not have existed at that time then therefore there would be no post to edit, unless...Trickfox?.....Trickfox..????

I will throw one more thing out there, when you can control it.....it's the stuff that dreams are made of...unless you have a dweller on the threshold, but that's another chapter.
Last edited by Mikado14 on Thu May 31, 2007 10:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy
Mikado14
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Re: evesdropping

Post by Mikado14 »

ladygrady wrote:But those I have talked with have the same problem generally. We can not always tell if something has happened in the past or will happen in the future. ( Hello to you Mikado, same situation perhaps) I believe that someone else here on the forum might have been talking about this when they used the expression " Wait for it". Meaning ... they know what is coming ... they are just waiting for the moment to catch up. Does that make any sense? If not ... perhaps just "wait for it".
Ah my dear "lady"....Do you really know what you have inferred here or what time? You almost make me wonder if I know you. (More than likely I probably will). Those disjointed little moments in time, which way is up, which way is down, left or right, or perhaps that's what psychic ability is. The ability to disconnect and view the time stream over the horizon and see the most prominent paths. Makes me think of the person who predicts and tells someone not to travel on such and such date so they don't. The next day, the person says "see, you were wrong, I didn't have an accident".

Let's change the subject but is it a mere coincidence that Mr. Twigsnapper was referred to as Boston and you are in Boston?

And one more question, why did you call this "evesdropping"?

Mikado
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy
Gewis
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Re: flying dreams too

Post by Gewis »

Elizabeth Helen Drake wrote:Everybody,

It would be interesting asking each of you here if you have experienced what others call " flying dreams". I know I sure did ... don't do it so much anymore. Maybe my feet are too well set in concrete but when I was a teenager I could soar in circles, very eagle like, but I especially liked working my way through various chambers. It wasn't until much much later when I saw a spacelab film of the scientists moving so slowly and so gracefully beween the labs that I felt that surge of recognition.

Perhaps there is some sort of connection between our minds and that great "library" of experience. Perhaps I was drawing on the feelings of those space walkers. Sort of getting a preview of their experiences. Its certainly odd that it matched my dreams so closely. Just curious how many more of you have experienced that particular feeling, or if its different can you tell me how.

I thought the "ladder" in the air concept was really beautiful ...... Elizabeth
Most flying I've done has been in lucid dreams, though I haven't had one in years. Shame, that. Is it part of getting older? In any case, I had enough of them I experimented. For flying, the hardest part is taking off, getting my feet above the ground by about five feet or so. Once that's done, like the gravity has finally let go, then I can (could?) fly about anywhere. That initial part, though, taking off, required enormous will-power and concentration. I also walked through walls, which wasn't so hard as flying. Telekinesis was fairly easy. Mind-control was a strange one; people in my dream seemed to resist. Their bodies would physically obey, but they weren't willing, and they almost seemed zombie-like. It was rather unnerving, so I didn't try that one again. Conjuring things to appear was difficult, and hard to verify, considering how dreams are so shifty anyway.

Hmm... I've had a few prophetic dreams too, but those are usually highly symbolic and not lucid in the same way. I understand the significance of the symbolism and what things mean, but awareness that the whole thing is a dream is fuzzy at best.
"If we knew what we were doing, it wouldn't be called research!" -Einstein
Paul S.
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Bahnson's Novel

Post by Paul S. »

I waited until I had a chance to finish the book (I'm almost as slow a reader as I am a writer..) before reading Radomir's entire post and commenting on his observations. So here are some of my thoughts on Agnew Bahnson Jr.'s singular novel, "The Stars Are Too High:"

radomir wrote:As much as I might have wanted them to, the main characters do not seem to directly parallel any persons we would know from the TTB narrative.
Except maybe the German, Max Schoeller. He MAY have a parallel in the real world, as I'll be getting to shortly.

I had to wonder if this book was at least partially ghost-written. It's rare that someone writes just one good novel, of any subject matter.
In the biographical sketch of Bahnson printed as a post-script in the original hardcover edition, it says of Bahnson that "of all the hobbies he has undertaken, however, he finds novel-writing the most interesting and baffling." I can relate. Probably a good thing he didn't give up his day job. And, without going into the details, and based on my contact with Bahnson's family, I'm comfortable with the idea that he wrote the book himself -- in longhand, no less.
It has an "atomic" power source (a la Fusor?).
I could never imagine any kind of fission-powered engine that would be light enough to fly. I mean, just consider the weight of the uranium-based fuel. Bahnson never says "fusion" or "fission," but I would presume he means the latter, which was actually in use in those days. And there were even attempts to build an "atomic airplane" in the 50s. So I assume he means a fission power plant, implausible as that seems. Hell, it's just fiction...
There is NOT a gravity neutral field inside the craft--the occupants are subject to the normal G-force limitations we have come to know from conventional fighter-jets.
That's one of the curiousities to me, since most discussion of "gravity-enabled" craft speak in terms of a "gravity neutral" environment for the occupants. Granted, the author needed centrifigual forces to make one of his plot points. But that does raise an interesting question, what WOULD the internal environment inside a gravity-defying (or exploiting) craft be like? Would the occupants of such a craft have any sense of motion at all?
In the novel, the actual "inventor" is a German former scientist/mechanic jack of all trades who is the only surviving member of a secret project team who blew themselves up by accident while developing their technology. He is imported into the USA after WWII--so this is presented as decidedly NOT a home-grown American technology. Is this misdirection away from TTB?
Probably not entirely. I think we've seen that theme surface in other places, and, you know, disinformation is usually derived from a robust mixture of fact and fiction...
We have no idea if Bahnson ever even met Morgan. Still, it appears Morgan has shown up in other books since then...we may never know.
Seems unlikely. Brown's involvement with Bahnson was 57-58 (or 58-59, I can never remember which off the top of my head). Morgan doesn't show up until the fall 1963; Bahnson died in the spring of 64, and Morgan wasn't fully recruited until 65 and 66. So it seems unlikely their paths would have crossed -- at least, not in conventionally delineated time-frames...
part of the "answer" arrives in the form & the influence of a non-aligned, non-governmental, international group of very highly intelligent and creative advisory Committee members. People who are described as brilliant and broad-minded, morally centered, humanistically oriented, very much like the ones we have already encountered in the Caroline mold.
Yes, the Caroline analogy is very apt. Hard to say to what extent Bahnson was a "Caroline" insider. Maybe Mr. Twigsnapper can shed some light on that score. But, from a story-telling perspective, I found the last-minute introduction of these "councils of elders" objectionable. I take exception to adding an entirely new element to the narrative just before the end, and then hinging the resolution on that element. I'm a big believer in planting the seeds of resolution along the way, and the conclusion being predicated in those seeds germinating and reaching full flower.
And, in this story, the hero guy and gal actually are able to have a life together, despite all the obstacles.
Well, at least Bahnson got that part right. I had the same crush on "Sandy" that Victoria's had on Morgan...<g>


There are other concepts in Bahnson's novel that have more relevance for a contemporary audience: For example the notion that the German scientist introduces, that "terror" is the only way to motivate people -- that sounds like a page write out of the current administration's play-book.

And I had to sigh when I read one of the American's saying "I ask you, rich or poor, hasn't this country proved itself the least likely...to go around starting wars?" Ah, the simple days of the Cold War. Would that that were still true today.

Finally (for now) when, in the book, the prospect of global conglaration emerges from the protagonist's miscalculations, Schoeller -- the quasi-villain of the story -- asks, "Should man continue to exist if he cannot solve his problems freely?" -- which is as good a question as any the book poses.

--PS
Paul Schatzkin
aka "The Perfesser"
"At some point we have to deal with the facts, not what we want to believe is true." -- Jack Bauer
Paul S.
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Re: Flavor of the text

Post by Paul S. »

Radomir wrote: from page 113:
These five men weren't Nazi's, Dr. Alvin. They were scientists, and they pledged themselves never to disclose what they thought they had unless they could be sure of its use. They wouldn't even ask for extra funds for fear somebody high up would get too interested. The way they saw it, the world was in no position right then to make use of such a tremendous developmentl. God knows if it is now or not.
I noticed that passage too, Radomir, and had the same thought, as "Twigsnapper" (in a different incarnation) told me about Von Luck: "he was no Nazi."

Musta been a tough time for anybody trying to accomplish anything worthy during those years...

--PS
Paul Schatzkin
aka "The Perfesser"
"At some point we have to deal with the facts, not what we want to believe is true." -- Jack Bauer
Paul S.
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Time Zone Displays

Post by Paul S. »

kevin.b wrote:Is the time shown upon this forum relative to the time zone we are posting from?
Kevin, each user's time display is determined in their own profile settings. You can tell the system what time zone you are in, (+/- GMT) and that determines how the times are displayed for you.

A nutcase, you say? Nice to know none of us are the only ones... <g>

--PS
Paul Schatzkin
aka "The Perfesser"
"At some point we have to deal with the facts, not what we want to believe is true." -- Jack Bauer
Langley
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Re: cord

Post by Langley »

Mikado14 wrote:
Langley wrote:
When I woke up, the bed and my body was bouncing, oscillating like a big weight had been dropped on it.

I dont expect many people to believe this, but there it is. I didnt see the silver chord, which apparently is only visible when the astral is close to the physical.
What you experienced for lack of a better term was astral shock(sort of like the snapping of a rubber band). It is the forced resynchronization of the physical body and the astral body. Bet you very well may have had a headache for awhile or a feeling of not belonging if not just plain feeling disconnected. Did you see or feel the presence of any other cord?

Obviously, I do believe you.

Mikado\


(and the cord does have a limit and you should try going to the moon)

**The following is an edit from the future, not the past, for if it were the past then this post would not have existed at that time then therefore there would be no post to edit, unless...Trickfox?.....Trickfox..????

I will throw one more thing out there, when you can control it.....it's the stuff that dreams are made of...unless you have a dweller on the threshold, but that's another chapter.

Thanks Mikado.

The idea of a machine that can take a portion of this realm (with occupants in body) to another and back again. Good grief. A bit like Sagan's Contact.

But what a weapon. Its like messing with the Cosmic algorithm.
Then again, go there, cause the Germans to make a maths error and discard graphite as a moderator for their atomic pile. No Nazi bomb. Just Thorium toothpaste for radiant teeth....(which is what the German company that made the thorium hoped to market when they realised the war was lost.)

The difficulty is from a spiritual view point the realms are all as physical to themselves as the physical realm we normally percieve is to us. Its all concrete. Just finer and finer in structure so Ive read.

It is not the spiritual realm. It is on the record that Hitler was heavily into the Ascended Masters, it is claimed he was visited...interesting to speculate what it was the German scientists were working on that caused Brown to be sent to Germany.
greggvizza
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Post by greggvizza »

Langley wrote:It is on the record that Hitler was heavily into the Ascended Masters, it is claimed he was visited...
Looks like he chose the wrong spirits (trixy they are). Not much different than in the material world I suppose; its always best to be a bit discriminate when choosing someone in whom you intend to place your trust.

GV
Last edited by greggvizza on Sat Jun 02, 2007 10:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
kevin.b
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Post by kevin.b »

If you dont allow yourself to become annoyed at some of the content of this film, some of the photos of flying saucers do look very much like they are made of gold.
And the atmosphere of the war years is well shown.
Who knows which picture is the real one?
Maybe who is in those saucers may know about a lot of history, as yet untold?
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... 0996256219
Kevin
fibonacci is king
Radomir
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Bahnson's Novel

Post by Radomir »

Thanks Paul for the full response regarding the novel. Really appreciated.

Thanks for helping clear up the dates re: Morgan. I should have paid more attention to the timeline before making that comment.

I'm sure we're all looking forward to learning more about the German connection!
In the biographical sketch of Bahnson printed as a post-script in the original hardcover edition, it says of Bahnson that "of all the hobbies he has undertaken, however, he finds novel-writing the most interesting and baffling." I can relate. Probably a good thing he didn't give up his day job. And, without going into the details, and based on my contact with Bahnson's family, I'm comfortable with the idea that he wrote the book himself -- in longhand, no less.
Thanks also for clearing that up, it also helps me see my own preconceptions about what a renaissance man Bahnson must have been in his own right.
I could never imagine any kind of fission-powered engine that would be light enough to fly. I mean, just consider the weight of the uranium-based fuel. Bahnson never says "fusion" or "fission," but I would presume he means the latter, which was actually in use in those days. And there were even attempts to build an "atomic airplane" in the 50s. So I assume he means a fission power plant, implausible as that seems. Hell, it's just fiction...
OK, Paul, I got hung up on the phrase "light enough to fly" and I had to read this paragraph twice before I realized what I had always assumed about such a craft, that the internal weight of such a craft would actually be irrelevant vs. whatever gravity neutralizing effect was produced. That the main thing is to get as much power as possible in a smallish package, weight be damned. Once the field is in effect...you "just sail away."

You're right that Bahnson wrote about an "atomic" power source for the craft in the novel, which I just thought might be inserting a vocabulary word or label that more people at the time of writing would know. Then again, in my ignorance I may be trying to insert a relationship to fusion where there just isn't one. Might just as easily have been some weird mercury vacuum thingy like the Nazi Bell, but he wrote "atomic" because it's what your average reader of that era could just "get" and move on with their disbelief still comfortably suspended.

I agree with you that the insertion of a new element at the last minute in the resolution in a novel is kind of a cop out. Your way is far more elegant and preferable, but cutting him some slack, it was his first novel (longhand!). And if it is what we hope it is, simply an envelope in which to insert some important information and moral questions for future readers, then I was willing to forgive a lot in terms of art.
Finally (for now) when, in the book, the prospect of global conglaration emerges from the protagonist's miscalculations, Schoeller -- the quasi-villain of the story -- asks, "Should man continue to exist if he cannot solve his problems freely?" -- which is as good a question as any the book poses.
Yeah, the thing is I don't think we've been given a lot of latitude to do that lately (solving our problems freely), and it doesn't seem to be in the interests of those who aggregate wealth and power to run things other than from that terror-based configuration you've already pointed out. It's deemed the "easiest" way to govern but it's a far damn cry from "best."

R.
Radomir
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Re: Flavor of the text

Post by Radomir »

Paul S. wrote:
Radomir wrote: from page 113:
These five men weren't Nazi's, Dr. Alvin. They were scientists, and they pledged themselves never to disclose what they thought they had unless they could be sure of its use. They wouldn't even ask for extra funds for fear somebody high up would get too interested. The way they saw it, the world was in no position right then to make use of such a tremendous developmentl. God knows if it is now or not.
I noticed that passage too, Radomir, and had the same thought, as "Twigsnapper" (in a different incarnation) told me about Von Luck: "he was no Nazi."

Musta been a tough time for anybody trying to accomplish anything worthy during those years...

--PS
Yes, and yes. I thought both things when I read it. That whole concept of worthy work, and work that may be worthy but is still made to be secret. And I thought about analogues to other times and places. Like those folks Nick Cook interviewed who were unable or even scared to talk. And who might be out there right now doing "tremendous development" work they wish they could tell people about, but for whatever panoply of reasons, we're not allowed or "not ready" to know.

R.
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