LESSONS OF HISTORY

A place to engage extended discussions of things that come up on the ttbrown.com website. Anything goes here, as long as it's somehow pertinent to the subject(s) at hand.
kevin.b
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Post by kevin.b »

A very strange coincidence is my observations of MOLES, they are DOWERS supreme.
I am thinking of painting there little mole hills different colours, then you will all be able to see, with your eyers, what the Moles can see almost blind.
PLASMA.
It spins to the right, it spins to the left.
Moles in tunnels, is what comes to MIND
Kevin
fibonacci is king
grinder
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yeah but

Post by grinder »

Paul,

Yeah but, all that stuff is interesting but look where we are left. Townsend Brown is seriously injured and sent to England to recover? Isn't he going to sort of be out of the loop now? Its April or May of 1945. So was Townsend Brown sent home to the states then or did he just stay there until the fifties when he seems to have linked up again with Mr. O Riley.

And I already know that in 1956 the two of them MUST have had something to do with activities around the Berlin Tunnel. I think that all of us should know enough about the gentleman by now to realize that he never really says anything without a plan. HE mentioned the tunnel and how someone walked through and made the comment " It doens't feel right" and I'll be willing to bet my cat that he is quoting Dr. Brown directly.

So have you been told much about what the two of them must have been into in Europe in 1956? Look at the picture of them again in Paris. ( Can we have that posted here on this "history site Paul" some of the newer members might not have seen it.)

Ah, regarding that photo, I would say that these two gentlemen trust and like each other. But wait. Thats ten years away! So the Berlin Wall and Gehlen and the early CIA and all of that is a whole ten years down the pike and I'll just bet that Dr. Brown really covers some ground in that time, injured or not.

How long did his recovery take? The minute you wrote the path of the bullet I thought to myself "that might have been part of the weakness his lungs had experiences." So whats next? Really? Hawaii?

The "Demonstration?" you mentioned in Vegas? The Soviet Mole? Been way good. Getting even better!

Yes kevin. Moles spinning to the right, spinning to the left. grinder
Elizabeth Helen Drake
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Vesco said:

Post by Elizabeth Helen Drake »

I haven't " vetted "this information yet but I thought I would throw it out for discussion. I have been spending some time trying to follow the lead on the " facility" 60 miles south of Berlin. Kummerdorf? and when that name seems to come up Thuringia shows up too. Just trying to connect odd dots here. Anyway what "Vesco said" looks interesting

http://greyfalcon.us/restored/PROJECT%20UFO.htm

"(Vesco) believes there may be many answers to such a question, but one of the main points is this: Lack of confidence and fear of being exploited remain rife among the nations, as they are among people. And why should not Britain and her Commonwealth partner retain one major trump card which, one day, may become invaluable? The pooling of scientific secrets is rarely entirely sincere.

(THATS WHAT O'RILEY NOTED AS HE FOUND HIMSELF SET ASIDE IN CHAPTER 55.)

"All the evidence, all the know how of British scientists before and during the last war, combined with the astounding progress in propulsion and the discoveries in suction aircraft of the Germans, based on 18 years of research into the most secret documents of the past war, have convinced me of one thing :
he flying saucers do not come from space. They come from a few hundred miles outside the United States. They mean no harm, and Washington knows this. Hence the long standing order to all U.S. Air Force pilots: Intercept--but do not fire upon.
Unfortunately, Vesco doesn't offer any real substantiation for the existence of the Kugelblitz, which is the crux of his subject. However, in his book "Intercept, UFO," he tells us that the Kugelblitz was indeed tested some time in February, 1945 over the great underground complex at Kahla, in Thuringia. Both the Kugelblitz and the Feuerball were then destroyed by the retreating S.S."

SO MY CURRENT QUESTION IS" HOW FAR IS "KAHLA" FROM " KUMMERDORF? DID THIS "DESTRUCTION HAPPEN AT A FACILITY FAMILIAR TO THE "SCIENTIST" WHO WAS DRESSED AS A COMMON GERMAN SOLDIER IN CHAPTER 55 AND WHO SADLY WAS CAUGHT IN A CROSSFIRE? WE DON'T KNOW WHERE THIS "FARMHOUSE" WAS AND i DOUBT THAT MR. TWIGSNAPPER CAN TELL US IF SOME OF THIS INFORMATION IS STILL CLASSIFIED. BUT WE CAN PUT TWO AND TWO TOGETHER MAYBE? SO, ANYBODY KNOW? Looking anyway but any additional information from someone familiar with the area would be wonderful. Thanking you ahead of time! Elizabeth
Last edited by Elizabeth Helen Drake on Thu Mar 22, 2007 2:55 am, edited 1 time in total.
Elizabeth Helen Drake
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why included?

Post by Elizabeth Helen Drake »

Here is an example of the kinds of things that, I believe Morgans phrase was , " Can make your eyes roll back in your head" but I am including some of it just to show how bits and pieces of the truth can be mixed so evenly with the outrageous and unproven. Have fun with this and don't take everything too seriously. Oddly some names pop up that we have been talking about here. Like " Kummerdorf" for example. But my BIG question is " Why is Townsend Brown even mentioned in this body of "work" Thats a complete mystery to me.
_____________________________________________________________
Drawn from http://thewebfairy.com/hardtruth/omegafile03.htm

Following is a chronology based on research by Val Valerian of LEADING EDGE RESEARCH, regarding the secret 'Nazi' history pre and post World War II. In each code the first two numbers denote the year, the middle two the month, and the last two numbers the day of the month:

140000 - Adolph Hitler 'dreams' of Germany's greatness in the world.
240000 - American [Bavarian Illuminati backed] bankers form I.G. Farben chemical cartel in Germany.
280000 - T. Townsend Brown discovers electrogravitic capacitance effect.

see what I mean? what does the above have to do with ANYTHING?)

291000 - U.S. undergoes economic collapse, planned by the Bavarian Illuminati.
300000 - Dr. Henry Coanda begins work on Lenticular Aeroform designs.
330000 - Adolf Hitler Takes power. All outstanding German scientists forced to work in Nazi laboratories. ( AND THAT IS TRUE ENOUGH, IT WAS EITHER JOIN OR FIND YOURSELF IN A CAMP.)

340000 - Germans producing pilotless aircraft.
350000 - German research program on aerial warfare advances by spectacular leaps.
350100 - German experimental rocket research at Reinickendorf and Kummersdorf West. ("KUMMERSDORF WEST, WAS THERE A KUMMERSDORF East?")
350600 - American named Wilson [whose non-traditional theories on aerodynamics are rejected by the American government and established scientific organizations as unrealistic] comes to aid German aerial research programs. (ANYBODY KNOW ABOUT THIS FELLOW?)
350622 - Research at Reinickendorf and Kummersdorf West in Germany moved to Thuringia. ..............OK, THERE IS ONE MOVE I DIDN'T KNOW ABOUT., IF I CAN EVEN TRUST THAT INFORMATION.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Oh, if want to know what the experience of having your eyes roll back in your head try reading the whole thing. Elizabeth
Paul S.
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Re: yeah but

Post by Paul S. »

This one probably should have been posted in the "Chapter 55" thread, but since it's here...

Just know that I'm gathering all these questions up in my digital notebook and seeing if I can find the answers...
grinder wrote:Paul,Yeah but, all that stuff is interesting but look where we are left. Townsend Brown is seriously injured and sent to England to recover? Isn't he going to sort of be out of the loop now?
Oh, let's just say that "recovery" was not the only reason he was in England. Out of the loop? Most assuredly not.

Oh, look how Morgan has rubbed off on me!

Its April or May of 1945. So was Townsend Brown sent home to the states then or did he just stay there until the fifties when he seems to have linked up again with Mr. O Riley.


By the time O'Riley meets up with Brown again, Brown had been... how shall we say... all over the map. Literally.
HE mentioned the tunnel and how someone walked through and made the comment " It doens't feel right" and I'll be willing to bet my cat that he is quoting Dr. Brown directly.
You're going to have to find somebody else to take the other side of that bet.
( Can we have that posted here on this "history site Paul" some of the newer members might not have seen it.)
If I knew where it was posted, I'd post a cross link here. Otherwise, I think I'll wait until I get there.
So whats next? Really? Hawaii?
You just answered your own question about staying in England until the mid 50s.

Anybody responding to this post, I think it probably belongs in the Chapter 55 thread:

viewtopic.php?p=5675#5675

--PS
Paul Schatzkin
aka "The Perfesser"
"At some point we have to deal with the facts, not what we want to believe is true." -- Jack Bauer
flowperson
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Post by flowperson »

EHD:
Interesting that the Valerian chronology begins in 1914. The Jehovah's Witnesses believe that was the year that the "end times countdown" commenced. Otherwise IG Farben seems to be in the middle of it all. Something to do with quantum effects in the air that weren't possible before they started to manufacture and do what they did ? Longshot, but chemical enablements can cause all sorts of catalyzed effects in generalized environments.

flow.... :wink:
Dancing is better than marching
Elizabeth Helen Drake
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say again?

Post by Elizabeth Helen Drake »

Flowperson,

Please forgive me. I just can't help it. The only thing that wants to escape from my lips is ........ HUH?
Would you mind rephrasing what you have said so that the scientifically challenged ( as I am) can have a slightly different response?

I don't know what the heck you just said! I am sorry! Elizabeth
flowperson
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Post by flowperson »

EHD:

I'm not a chemist or a physicist, but I have worked with both enough to know that the next major obstacles to progress are to transcend apparently fixed boundaries in inner space such as the planck length, or better yet, the inner space of atomic structure such that controlled fusion might become a reality, or novel avenues for computation might open up to us, for example. The late Richard Feynmann was very paranoid regarding the long term effects of nanotechnologies that are just now beginning to bloom in our midst.

If we do indeed live in a set of realities that incorporates limitless and timeless dimensions, then the answers to transcending such boundaries lie in the application of novel approaches to harmonize such systems and open them up to our explorations and eventual exploitation, because that's what we do. TTB was at the forefront of such initial steps, IMHO. I have thought for some time now that if time/space signaling transport focused upon the 1920's as a target era to initiate such modifications of say air, earth,and water resources, that might explain many things that have come about to change us since then into what we are today. A sort of reverse spin self-directed evolutionary process, or as Paul might refer to it, a gigantic "FTM".

For instance, when chlorine was introduced into water purification systems (a deadly poison we consume now in small portions each day we live) in that era it may have opened a part of the population (mostly urban) to new diseases that have appeared in the last 80 years that were virtually unknown up to that time. Likewise with Farben's introduction of lead additives for incorporation into gasoline and other fuels. Gratefully we got the message on that one to halt a possible epidemic of brain diseases.

Right now there are about 60,000 chemical agents in our earth environments that weren't there 150 years ago, and I believe you'll agree that they've, to some extent, caused harm. But we've also benefitted from their existence. The real trick in all of this is to keep some sort of balance to the game, much as nature does in the natural environment.

That is also why the study and understanding of how complex systems function in the environment is such a hot topic right now (forgive me). We on Earth are sort of an ongoing lab experiment now. The positive side of this is that medicine seems to have kept pace and in at least industrialized nations our lifespan has advanced and lengthened over this time. But I believe that Mr. Gore is right, it's time to stop playing around and to begin determining our own destiny as a species on Earth.

We're beginning to open things up more each day now, and it's my belief that today's internet publication of France's UFO records will start serious discussions about what these UFO thingies really are ultimately. My best guess is FTM's. But as I pointed out elsewhere, travel might not even be required if sufficiently robust communications systems exist to transcend dimensional boundaries.

flow.... 8)
Dancing is better than marching
Paul S.
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Re: one more crumb

Post by Paul S. »

Radomir wrote:OK, I am finding some tidbits here and there that I hope may be worth mentioning.

Dornberger is mentioned several times in the vonBraun entry here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wernher_von_Braun
For some reason, this is the area that seems to be holding my interest today. I am rummaging around in the wreckage of WWII, trying to piece some things together, so I've been following the breadcrumbs Twigsnapper, Radomir, and others left here and elsewhere to see what comes up.

I have some stories to tell and I'm looking for context.

At the moment, I seem to be intrigued by this earlier post from Twigsnapper:

viewtopic.php?p=5646#5646
twigsnapper wrote:On April 10, 1945 Four hundred and fifty- eight men were loaded rather unceremoniously into a train headed for the mountains south of Munich. They had been working at the Nordhausen complex. Army General Walter Dornberger had ordered this shift suddenly. Some stayed behind and some never quite made it to the destination in the mountains. A small handful were "intercepted" by a random unit of the SS which had been assigned to the 35th Police Division outside of Berlin.
The part about the Von Braun and 400+ hands from Nordhausen and Peenemunde slipping out to surrender themselves to the Allies is pretty easy to substantiate.

Anybody wanna venture a guess as to what became of that "handful" that was "intercepted" ?

--PS
Paul Schatzkin
aka "The Perfesser"
"At some point we have to deal with the facts, not what we want to believe is true." -- Jack Bauer
grinder
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A handful? I'll guess on ONE.

Post by grinder »

Wanna bet that little bit of information has been effectively "obscured" in the history books?

But I have learned one thing in all this reading, especially when Mr. Twigsnapper is concerned. He never seems to say ANYTHING unless it is some sort of clue for other material close to the surface!

And he seems pretty specific , don't you think? So anybody else know about " the unit of the SS, part of the 35th Police Division of Berlin? So what the heck does that mean? I did have the thought though .... wasn't the tank commander an SS officer? You know, the man who saved Dr. Brown and obviously was working two sides of the fence. Maybe the "disguised soldier scientist" was from this " handful" intercepted. And maybe the tank officers group was doing the "interception?" Why else would Mr. Twigsnapper have mentioned that activity. But maybe I am really off base. Who were the SS assigned to the 35th Police Division anyway? Maybe thats a s good a clue as we are going to get! grinder
grinder
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keep running into this

Post by grinder »

I keep running into this commentary about Doctor Browns personality and am still amazed at it. Paul, have you taken note of what Mr. Twigsnapper wrote here to Victoria? I loved the bit about his interaction with the secretary named " Grace". Remember it?

viewtopic.php?p=1823#1823

"The ladies simply adored him. I have seen ridiculously tough executive secretaries for important individuals just melt away all their reserves when it came to Townsend Brown. Sometimes they would even forget what they were doing. And all of them wanted to Mother the man in the absolutely most shameful way. He, to them, seemed so in need of their feminine charms and protection.

He was the consumate gentleman. He asked carefully constructed questions .... as in " Good Morning Grace. Is your Mother better this month? Did she get a chance to see that specialist?" And then he would listen to her every word, totally absorbed in her story of what problems her mother was having. It usually only took a few minutes, he never stayed in any office very long but Grace would remember that conversation and six months later the two would pick up where they left off, meanwhile if there was anything he ever needed out of that office ... he always got the first draw. I was always rather amazed.

So, you see, you do not have to be the fellow in the shadow to get information. The object is to have people just hand it happily over."

And to you Mr. Twigsnapper: You should write . I really liked what you said here and it made me feel like I really got a chance to meet Dr. Brown. I am grateful that he was able to maintain the "vunerability" that the women seemed to appreciate so much. I understand that he probably couldn't have been able to do that witout your abilities beside him. I am really impressed. Impressed too with how important you were to him.

And I wondered how well you might have known the character that Paul has called Charles Miller? Could you, if you knew him at all, give us the same sort of character profile for him? Asking for the favor, respectfully.

And another thing Paul. What is going to happen to all of these messages in the forum in the future? Will you just someday erase the whole thing when your book is published. Reading over some of the comments that people have made makes me cringe at the thought of losing anything out of the forum. I hope somebody is saving these records for the future because some amazing thoughts have been offered up here. grinder
Paul S.
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Where'd That Come From?

Post by Paul S. »

grinder wrote: But I have learned one thing in all this reading, especially when Mr. Twigsnapper is concerned. He never seems to say ANYTHING unless it is some sort of clue for other material close to the surface!
Oh, I'll grant you that. Practically a "given."
And he seems pretty specific , don't you think? So anybody else know about " the unit of the SS, part of the 35th Police Division of Berlin? So what the heck does that mean?
Maybe I just flat missed something (hey, there's a first!) but... where did that come from? I mean, the ref. to the "35th Police Division of Berlin"? I don't recall seeing that in any of Twigsnapper's previous posts on this subject (the "handful of scientists" that didn't quite make it into Von Braun's entourage that turned themselves over to the Americans).

Here's what Wikipedia has to say on the subject:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/35th_SS_an ... r_Division
I did have the thought though .... wasn't the tank commander an SS officer? You know, the man who saved Dr. Brown and obviously was working two sides of the fence. Maybe the "disguised soldier scientist" was from this " handful" intercepted.
I have it on excellent authority that you're right on the mark with that one.:wink: Nice work.

Care to play again?

--PS
Paul Schatzkin
aka "The Perfesser"
"At some point we have to deal with the facts, not what we want to believe is true." -- Jack Bauer
Victoria Steele
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can I play too

Post by Victoria Steele »

Paul, ya gotta read your own stuff!

"On April 10, 1945 Four hundred and fifty- eight men were loaded rather unceremoniously into a train headed for the mountains south of Munich. They had been working at the Nordhausen complex. Army General Walter Dornberger had ordered this shift suddenly. Some stayed behind and some never quite made it to the destination in the mountains. A small handful were "intercepted" by a random unit of the SS which had been assigned to the 35th Police Division outside of Berlin."


That was your own excerpt! Something that Mr. Twigsnapper sent earlier? Or was that your computer funneling extra stuff again? You have been on vacation too long fella!

WHAT DOES HE MEAN BY "RANDOM UNIT?" Victoria
Paul S.
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Duh

Post by Paul S. »

Victoria Steele wrote:Paul, ya gotta read your own stuff!
OK, where's the little smiley-face with the hand slapping on the forehead? :?:

I remember my mind... it was a good mind... it must still be around here somewhere...

--PS
Paul Schatzkin
aka "The Perfesser"
"At some point we have to deal with the facts, not what we want to believe is true." -- Jack Bauer
grinder
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yeah, same here

Post by grinder »

I do that all the time. But in your case you have an excuse of information overload. But Victoria has really struck something when she noted " random unit" of the SS. Random ... meaning .... not playing by any set schedules or rules ..... being where they want to be, when they want to be? Oh. I'll just bet that made Hitler happier than a clam at low tide. What else do you know about this man who sacrificed his life to help Dr. Brown stay alive? Seems like a special story. The guy obviously had something to do with communications on a very high level, so did this Berlin Police unit handle the upper level .... say, from Hitler to his troops ... communications? And if so ... what a great spot to be in if you are actually working for the Allies. Or working for the Caroline Group? This is just great.

Wheres Elizabeth? Still on vacation Paul? Missing her comments! grinder
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