DOSIMETER BADGES

[Paul S.]

ITT huh Paul. Your Admiral who was the go between with Farnsworth?

Admiral Frederick R. "Fritz" Furth. Seems to me he was in charge of ONR at one point but I'd have to veryify that.

Wasn't he the fellow who happened to pass along the Allende marked up version of that book?

So the legend goes.

Here's some history of Furth's involvement with Farnsworth, the Fusor, and ITT:

http://fusor.net/board/view.php?bn=fuso ... site=fusor

[flowperson]

Hi Paul...I am assuming that ITT stands for International Telephone and Telegraph. In the late 60's and into the 70's when Rand Araskog was in charge, ITT, along with the Air Force, was responsible for some wierd stuff happening at Montauk LI and at some other SAGE radar sites around the world. This is all of urban legend status like much of the stuff in the bottom of the rabbitt hole, but I've done enough reading about it all to be convinced there's substance there.

BTW...the Air Force personnel at Montauk were famous for wearing "black berets" as part of their uniform. This was very unusual in those days and designated a significant difference in "mission" for these militaries much as green berets did in Vietnam during these days.

flow....

[Rocky]

Mikado wrote:

Cad might enter through the lungs but the biggest side effect is neurological. I used to spin cast alloys that contained cad and used a vent hood over the furnace and wore a breather when melting and spinning.

I think I am going to have to disagree with you Mikado on Cadmium exposure. If you check the ATSDR Toxicological Profile, you will find that the predominate effects from Cadmium to be lung related. This is particularly true for inhalation.

ATSDR does discuss some related neurological exposure, however, the lungs will be destroyed long before the neurological effects become serious. I have attached a link to the ATSDR site with the information.

Incidentally, a single acute exposure of cadmium can result in lung related death years after the event. That is what initially which led me to post.


http://www.atsdr.cdc.gov/toxprofiles/tp5-c2.pdf

Rocky

[Elizabeth Helen Drake]

I am the non-scientist in the group and I sure appreciate all of your input and I do see something here that might need to be discussed. I don't know where it might go.

In the fall of 1960 Townsend Brown was working on the " Flame Jet Generator" with a group in Meadville Pa. At some point he became very ill and that illness attacked his lungs. He was never the same, I understand, after that. Always having problems ( as he was having in Florida in late 1965) which caused his daughter to leave school to join the family.

I imagine that Josephine was more than a little worried about him (and needed Lindas moral support also) From what I have read none of the Doctors in Florida were able to pinpoint what was wrong. Josephine was an excellent nurse and I really believe it was her good care that saved his life. He was basically sent home to rest.

Now .... could his lungs have been responding to the type of hazardous material that you have mentioned? Where might they have used this material in his work? And wouldn't the doctors of the day be able to recognize this problem and its cause?

Of course I imagine the attending physicians would never have been told what he may or may not have been exposed to..... so here might be a case of secrecy REALLY working against Dr. Brown. Just a few thoughts out there. Elizabeth

[Rocky]

Elizabeth,

Several high temperature alloys incorporate cadmium. If Brown was testing his flame jet using one of these alloys that could explain his exposure. In addition cadmium is used in high temperature paints, high voltage electrical contacts, and for reduced friction in metals. So, he easily could have been exposed to any one of the above.

I haven’t found the article, but somewhere I read he tested disks made from cadmium. That was what I thought of when Paul referred to Townsend Browns “mystifying illnessâ€

[Mikado14]

Mikado wrote:

Cad might enter through the lungs but the biggest side effect is neurological. I used to spin cast alloys that contained cad and used a vent hood over the furnace and wore a breather when melting and spinning.

I think I am going to have to disagree with you Mikado on Cadmium exposure. If you check the ATSDR Toxicological Profile, you will find that the predominate effects from Cadmium to be lung related. This is particularly true for inhalation.

ATSDR does discuss some related neurological exposure, however, the lungs will be destroyed long before the neurological effects become serious. I have attached a link to the ATSDR site with the information.

Incidentally, a single acute exposure of cadmium can result in lung related death years after the event. That is what initially which led me to post.


http://www.atsdr.cdc.gov/toxprofiles/tp5-c2.pdf

Rocky

Rocky,

I never said you were wrong.

I was referencing the inhalation of fumes whether it be from welding or the melting of Zinc/cad alloys or cad plated steel. The inhalation of the fumes, if acute, cause flu-like symptoms and yes, you are correct, if the acuteness is severe enough pulmonary edema will occur and may cause death from asphyxia. However, continued long term exposure to cad will usually show up in the kidneys with excessive protein being voided. It also can lead to lung cancer (there's the lungs again) and prostate cancer. However, repeated, low level, long term exposure can cause repeated flu-like symptoms, kidney disease and neurological disorders. Anyway, I could be totally wrong cause I am reaching way up from where the sun don't shine and pulling it down and out from brain, in other words, it is what I remember and my memory, lately....what was I saying?

Anyhow, ever smell burning cad from welding? Smells like chicken cooking. How comes everything always smells or tastes like chicken? And if you can taste your filings in your mouth, if you have any, get out.

Mikado

[Chris Knight]

Rocky,

You may be thinking of a post over in the lifters in a vacuum thread discussing the vacuum arcing of the disc components in a vacuum. That came from Townsend's Journal No. 1, Sec. 43, p. 77 at:

The quote from that section is: http://www.qualight.com/journals/journal1.htm#43

"One of the spectacular features of the flash is the colored luminescence which appears on or immediately adjacent to the anode and/or the shifting areas of light and color across the face of the anode. The color is reddish --- like hot metal, although in reality the surface is not hot: Cadmium is especially active in this respect although other metals reveal the same red coloration. White star-like spots of considerable brilliance appear on the cathode."

[Elizabeth Helen Drake]

You guys might remember that I posted a question about the "colors" of red and blue showing up on these " units" .... I still don't get where I was trying to go ( and you thought you were the only ones having a hard time following me!) but I think this .... reddish glow here means something.

Could it be possible for a "unit " to display both the red glow Dr. Brown mentions here and alternately or simultaneously a blue corona discharge?

And off the wall question here. Would a Cesium vapor give off a certain color and if so, under what conditions?

Andy? You are the closest to what DR. Brown has reported. Am I close? I just want to put this question away so I can go on to the next! Elizabeth

[kevin.b]

Mikado 14,
Welders ague , is the common phrase used to describe the flu like symptons.
The reference to metallic taste is interesting as i met a Russian lady at a stone circle close to where I live, She saw me dowsing and said something in Russian to me, luckily her boyfriend could talk Russian, and understood Yorkshire, so we were away.
She explained that where i was detecting flows of plasma ( a word I use?) She got a metallic taste at that precise spot, she explained how she had studied and how many in Russia were studying this subject, very seriously.
I have forgotten most of what she told me, she was so stunning, I went into a daze.
http://www.canoshweb.org/odp/html/rp5.htm
kevin

[Gewis]

Ionized Cesium should have blue emissions, yes, and less intensely some green. (Wavelengths of 452, 460, (both blue) and 523 nm (green) with intensity ratios of 1:5:4, respectively.) Neutral cesium has strongest emission lines in the infra-red, and shouldn't be visible.

There are a large number of substances that give off the reddish glow you're talking about, when ionized. If you had some in mind, I could check them to see if they fit.

I'm glad you brought this up. Field gradient asymmetry should be irrelevant, contrary to what popped into my head when you were talking about this before. But emission spectra for various materials most definitely ISN'T irrelevant.

[grinder]

Well, it seems that the storyline is splitting here. Part staying with Dr. Brown and Josephine and the newborn baby , Linda, in 1945. And the other finds another Linda ... a young adult .... excited about moving to Philadelphia (possibly) or Nassau (possibly) and looking forward to spending time with Morgan in either case. Its hard to believe that the time frame is really only twenty one years apart. A whole generation there. A whole life for the baby in California. But as any adult will tell you, twenty years goes by really quickly.

What I have been wondering is ... What happened in Townsend Browns life in those twenty- one years? So I am anxious to get back to that too, as well as finding out whats happening with Decker in Philadelphia in 1966.

And this discussion of dosimeter badges seems a big part of it all. So here it is again. Where do we go from here Paul? Either direction, either thread is bound to be interesting. grinder