Chapter 45: We lost Morgan

[LongboardLOVELY]

So I purchased that video that I mentioned a few posts back and it came in the mail today. Mark C., I wish I could send it to you! It will so open your eyes to the past! If you have a paypal account, I highly recommend buying it. Especially if you teach history. It will make your class a lot more interesting!
The fellow who made the movie also uses interesting artistic techniques to convey the story.

One chord that really struck in me was that after the end of the War and the Cold War went into full swing, these resistant fighters were denounced by their Mother County as Communist (Russian) spies. And the painful thing about it was that Hoover (who was president of the US at the time) agreed. And those SS officers who tried them and sentenced many to death were actually rewarded in some capacity. And even now, there are historians who still are not sure who these people were.

There were a lot of names mentioned that may have a link to the CG. I think, Elizabeth, that the person I mentioned above (Schultz-Boysen) may have been someone key to the "Caroline Group", based on things said in the video. At least, he was key in the institution of the CIA later on in history. The other names on the video will have to be posted later. I've got to watch it again. When I am done with it, I can send it to you, Elizabeth, and then you can see for yourself.

LongboardLOVELY

[Mikado14]

One chord that really struck in me was that after the end of the War and the Cold War went into full swing, these resistant fighters were denounced by their Mother County as Communist (Russian) spies. And the painful thing about it was that Hoover (who was president of the US at the time) agreed. And those SS officers who tried them and sentenced many to death were actually rewarded in some capacity. And even now, there are historians who still are not sure who these people were.

Ok, I am confused, I always was under the impression from High School History that the Cold War began post WWII. Are you saying that it commenced pre WWII under the administration of President Hoover or do you mean under Hoover the FBI director in the post WWII years?

Mikado

[LongboardLOVELY]

One chord that really struck in me was that after the end of the War and the Cold War went into full swing, these resistant fighters were denounced by their Mother County as Communist (Russian) spies. And the painful thing about it was that Hoover (who was president of the US at the time) agreed. And those SS officers who tried them and sentenced many to death were actually rewarded in some capacity. And even now, there are historians who still are not sure who these people were.

Ok, I am confused, I always was under the impression from High School History that the Cold War began post WWII. Are you saying that it commenced pre WWII under the administration of President Hoover or do you mean under Hoover the FBI director in the post WWII years?

Mikado

Mikado,
Thanks for pointing out my error. I meant Truman, and when Hoover was in the FBI directorship, and this was immediately after WWII.
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But surely you don't that the Cold War had a definitive beginning after WWII? The trailhead starts long before WWI was finished (in my opinion). I'd probably date the start of the Cold War tensions to the Russian Revolution of 1917. I think the landing of U.S. troops in Russia in 1918, and the fact that the United States assisted the anti-Bolshevik Whites in the Russian Civil War had helped solidify lasting suspicions among Soviet leadership of the capitalist world.
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Anyways, it was a very moving video biography. Really opened my eyes to how politics is played out in real life.
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I think it was you(?) who brought up the fact that maybe Morgan went deep undercover when he supposedly was in a tragic accident, especially as he was fluent in Russian and that time period coincided with some of the strongest acrimony between US and THEM. If it wasn't you, whoever it was, I do agree with that.

LongboardLOVELY

[Radomir]

LongboardL: thanks for the link to the DVD on the Red Orchestra and for the other information you posted above. I have ordered the film and very much look forward to viewing it--both for the content and for what sounds like a very innovative new animating technique for bringing documentary history to life.

Mark: I just finally watched Enigma the other week. It really was so stirring I watched it twice in a row (did not get much sleep that night). Stoppard's scripting was tremendous. Watching the two short "making of" segments on the DVD was also fascinating. I was stunned to find that Mick Jaggar had produced the film. Just when you think you have someone pegged...he even has a cameo in the club dance scene. I loved hearing the curator of the Bletchley Park museum talking with such satisfaction about the technical accuracy of the film, about which he had advised, even its props. For instance, every one of those prop code sheets was actual enigma code that would have translated into historically relevant messages.

part of growing up is finding out who you actually are. Where you have come from in the past. What road you happen to be on now and your capabilities to choose your path in the future. Thats really what its all about. Being able to recognize yourself so that suggestions from outside can be weighed carefully and acted upon wisely. Gone I think are the days when we can take intructions without the responsibility of our own self will. Its very soon going to be a new age. But looking back and honoring those who have made up our past? Thats important. twigsnapper

So true, so very true. Thank you Mr. twigsnapper.

[LongboardLOVELY]

The development of Russian distrust of the West probably even goes back long before WWI...

Back when the Suez Canal was finished in 1869, Britain was ever wary of Russian expansion. I think even going back as far as the Crimean War as a target point for when Imperialist Russia developed distrust of the West is reasonable.

Also, in the 1890's, after 100 years of friendliness between the U.S. and Russia, they started playing the strategic rivalry dance over the development of Manchuria.

Anybody else with any other input on the Cold War? It may shed some light on what was going on in those very Black Years of T Townsend Brown

LBL

[LongboardLOVELY]

LongboardL: thanks for the link to the DVD on the Red Orchestra and for the other information you posted above. I have ordered the film and very much look forward to viewing it--both for the content and for what sounds like a very innovative new animating technique for bringing documentary history to life.

You're welcome. I have been corresponding with the creator of the video. I hope they check out this website, especially as I have been promoting his work.

... I was stunned to find that Mick Jaggar had produced the film. Just when you think you have someone pegged...he even has a cameo in the club dance scene.

Mick Jagger?!! I'm stunned. Andy and I watched that film a few months ago when it first came up in conversation on the forums. I'll have to go back and rent it again

Thanks Radomir!

LongboardLOVELY

[twigsnapper]

Radomir! Bonus Points indeed! You found the key under the seed bag.

If you look hard at much of Stephensons operation also you will find many important Hollywood characters which played major roles in either disinformation campaigns or downright snooping.

Celebrities that no one would have suspected worked for him or were intelligence officers for the OSS and then the CIA. Stephenson crews were an amazing lot though and word has gotten out on some of them through the years so you may find some names.

Anybody out there know of some celebrities who were OSS operatives or something similar for the English? ( I'll go first. Try David Niven. He always looked the part too!)

But Mick Jaggar? Being involved in this movie and who knows what else? Who would have possibly thought? Good work Radomir.

And good work LindaB on your background info on the Soviet situation. It would take a lifetime of study to really understand the Russian way of looking at things, Its a decidedly different mindset than we understood when we first came up against them.

Speaking of Hollywood etc, I know you will laugh perhaps ,but do you want to know what one of the major differences between the Russians and the Americans was? The Americans ALWAYS expect their movies to have a happy ending. The Russian never!

Thats a tough way to look into the future but it is an expectation they couldn't seem to shake. So if someone told them that the American form of commercialism was going to take over their system they believed it. Sort of a wierd national self fulfilling prophecy. ( and what street in Moscow is the McDonalds?) Oh, does your husband still owe you a dinner out Linda .... to ANY McDonalds I understand? Follow through! Take the one in Paris. twigsnapper

[LongboardLOVELY]

Oh, does your husband still owe you a dinner out Linda .... to ANY McDonalds I understand? Follow through! Take the one in Paris. twigsnapper

There's a 3 year moratorium on that bet, and I have 1.5 years left before I win. I'll pick Paris...would you like to join us ?

LongboardLOVELY

[Paul S.]

Speaking of Hollywood etc, I know you will laugh perhaps ,but do you want to know what one of the major differences between the Russians and the Americans was? The Americans ALWAYS expect their movies to have a happy ending. The Russian never!

That's like the difference between gospel and folk music.

In gospel music, everybody dies and goes to be with Jesus in heaven.

In folk music, everybody just dies.

I guess that's what makes folk music "secular."

--PS

[LongboardLOVELY]

( and what street in Moscow is the McDonalds?)

The first one that opened? Pushkin Square that opened January 31, 1990. I friend told me that one. There are 103 now in Moscow, Moscow Region, St. Petersburg, Nizhny Novgorod, Yaroslavl, Samara, and Kazan....
Spread the Fat, I say



LongboardLOVELY

[LongboardLOVELY]

Celebrities that no one would have suspected worked for him or were intelligence officers for the OSS and then the CIA. Stephenson crews were an amazing lot though and word has gotten out on some of them through the years so you may find some names.

Anybody out there know of some celebrities who were OSS operatives or something similar for the English? ( I'll go first. Try David Niven. He always looked the part too!)

I don't know for sure, but here are some names that I have learned over the years that may have some connection to the OSS behind the scenes work:
Jimmy Stewart, Peter Ustinov, Gene Hackman, Gene Autry, June Allyson, Humphrey Bogart

Am I way off the beaten track, Mr. Twigsnapper?

LongboardLOVELY

[Radomir]

You know, ever since he became Sir Jagger I had wondered what service(s) he might have provided Mother England -- or whether he just paid cash for the title.

Actors, of course they would be recruited. Not only do they have incredible access and immediate trust of a wide range of circles, they know how to...act. And memorize stuff for later recital. And disguise. One could go on...

Thanks for that list, LongboardL. Do you have specific sources where you found such material?

Gene Hackman, whether or not he was directly linked with that world, he's sure been in plenty of spy movies, that's for sure. One that sticks with me was that obscure movie where he played the former "bug" specialist, and at the end had torn his entire apartment down to the baseboards looking for electronic listening devices, trying to figure out how someone was listening in on him. Finally just sitting in a chair in the middle of the room playing saxaphone...spooky ending. No pun intended.

R.

[twigsnapper]

My personal Gene Hackman movie. " Enemy of the State."

The drawdown in the restaurant was a good scene and the ending of course I rather appreciated. Always nice to have your feet in sand and warm water. Every spooks retirement plan.

They did mention "Keyhole" during the movie which shows you how much of the information has bubbled into the public view. And though it may have seemed fantastic to the movie goers technically it was actually quite sound.


twigsnapper

[twigsnapper]

Remember a man by the name of Peter Tomkins? He wrote a fascinating book by the title of " The Seret life of Plants".

http://www.theamericanmag.com/print_art ... ticle_id=3

Andrew? Do you remember communicating with him regarding Townsend Brown? I don't know if you followed up on that interest or not. Perhaps you got sidetracked? A pity, he is not still with us (Having died early this year) Of course you would not have known then about Townsend Brown what you know now and he probably wouldn't have shared much with you anyway.

The area of operation was quite different than my experiences but there was much that was similar. And he had his ties with Hollywood too. Please note his regard for the women in his life.

[grinder]

Falling into that rabbit hole again. How do you do that Mr. Twigsnapper?
I took your lead with this Peter Tomkins and since his book seemed to be about plants and I remembered that Hal Puthoff had some sort of connection at SRI with plants, I thought why not? and googeled those names. Just Look what came up! How did I go around in a circle like that?

http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/socio ... eople1.htm

SORRY FOLKS LOOKS LIKE I LEFT OFF THE L AT THE END. TRY THIS.

http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/socio ... ople1.html
And Mr. Tomkins you said had contact with Andrew? Andrew? Do you remember that? Wierd stuff this, really wierd. Talking plants? Remote Viewers? The CIA?????? grinder