Primes

[Elizabeth Helen Drake]

I wanted to thank you so much kevin and Rocky for the discussion that we had last night ( from my point of view) ) I would like to continue this talk in the " Disinformation " section because I think thats where the base of the rest of what I have to say needs to go .... I am following a thin thread here .... like finding laughter at a well ....... but it needs to be in the right pace. meet you there. Elizabeth.

[Bulwark]

Rocky,

I am working hard now at trying to figure why it is that my mind just refuses to see this problem.

I think that you have an entirely valid point here, There is just something about this math problem that makes it a wonderful example of, as you say ..... misdirection and this process probably WAS used by Dr. Brown. Wonderfully effectively I think.

And this is what has been happening with Dr. Browns work. You are quite right. Material I think was presented in such a way so that once the public got a hold of it in their mind .... it created its own diversion. When you KNOW that things add up in one direction you fail to see the other. Thank you so much Rocky for the insight. I can drop the rag doll now. Elizabeth

Ah, Elizabeth, Paul Schatzkin's research assistant, do I have that right? I have been reading so much of this forum I am really beginning to get a handle on the players here.

I couldn't help but to butt in on this thread. The "three cowboy" situation has been told in many different forms but I do take your side in all of this. You are not wrong, but then, you are not right either, however, you capitulated too easily.

There is a correct answer for those that are concrete sequential and a correct answer for those that are random abstract. There are those that want everything in it's place and those that look for the beauty in randomness.

Why do we park in a driveway and drive on a parkway? Why is that?

or

A cowboy rides into town on a Friday, he stays three days looking for the three cowboys who paid $30 for a room but got... anyway, then he leaves on Friday. ???

or

There are only 3 words in "The English Language". What is the third?

or

A pond is being covered at a rate that doubles each day. It takes 48 days for the entire pond to be covered. How long would it take to cover half the pond?

The above are riddles, the $30 room, pizza, dinner, whatever, it is told in many forms and is not a riddle, it also has a measure of perspective. Perhaps those that are looking at the math are representative of those that swallow the disinformation. Those that look at the surface, see the confusion of multiple perspective and question. Just a random thought as I watch the sun coming in over the Yukon.......beautiful...

But you want a cowboy joke?

How about the three cowboys, one from Oklahoma, Arkansas and Texas all sitting around a campfire. The Oklahoman says proudly " Just the other day, a bull gored six men in the corral but I wrestled it to the ground with my bare hands."

The Arkansan replies, "Oh yeah? Yesterday a 15 foot rattler came at me so I grabbed it, bit its head off and spit the poison into a spittoon 15 yards away.

The Texan stays quiet, slowly stirring the coals with his (guess what).

Now that's a cowboy joke.

So, where's Linda Brown in here? Everyone wants to be anonymous, as do I.......<g>

Think she would or could answer the question?

Bulwark

[LongboardLOVELY]

LindaB.

I noticed that you decided to repsond to Victoria/Elizabeth and Linda Browns math problem by delaying your answer until you had a chance to discuss it with your husband?

Victoria,
Andy and I had a very lovely discussion about that math conundrum. I had heard it both in my college level calculus classes and in my philosophy classes. It's fun to work through Nice puzzle!

Now I find that disconcerting from a woman who is considering primes just for the heck of it! So I am really interested to see what your response is going to be to all of this.

On one grinder

Grinder, you misunderstood. WHen the cowboy math story FIRST came up in discussion, oh about 2 or 3 months ago (?), Andy and I discussed it, ad naseum. I don't think we mentioned it since.

No, I don't think you are at all transparent. I just think that Mr. Twigsnapper is a very skilled individual at what he does, Amazing to me.

That was meant to be a rhetorical question, Grinder. I know how he comes by his information, and I know he is a very astute gentleman

Elizabeth,

The real error is the misdirection in the riddle. The cowboy who is pondering the issue is adding an additional two dollars when he is thinking about the question. They actually only paid 25 dollars for the room, then they tipped the clerk 2 dollars and put the rest in their pockets. The misdirection is in the riddle when it says…â€

[LongboardLOVELY]

Actually, one of the reasons I mention primes and was thinking along those lines (other than escaping at work) was that in the mid to late 70's, prime numbers formed the basis of the first algorithms in cryptography, such as the RSA cryptosystem. Anyone remember what the acronym RSA stands for (or for whom it stands for?)


LongboardLOVELY

[Mark Culpepper]

LindaB,
Oh, please don't do that to me! Tell me! Tell me! I am too impatient to guess and I have too much to catch up on already. And besides you and I shared a cosmic doorway just then .... posting at exactly the same time. So! We have got to stop meeting like this , talking of spies in doorways and special codes! Tell me what you know about this RSA stuff! Please! Mark C.

[LongboardLOVELY]

LindaB,
Oh, please don't do that to me! Tell me! Tell me! I am too impatient to guess and I have too much to catch up on already. And besides you and I shared a cosmic doorway just then .... posting at exactly the same time. So! We have got to stop meeting like this , talking of spies in doorways and special codes! Tell me what you know about this RSA stuff! Please! Mark C.

Mark,
this is recent history (in our lifetime) - w/ NSA involvment

Rivest, Shamir, Adleman (RSA). are three researchers at MIT named Ronald Rivest, Adi Shamir, and Leonard Adleman (RSA) who began searching for a practical mathematical function to implement a complete PKC (public key cryptography) approach. After working on more than 40 candidates, they finally discovered an elegant algorithm based on the product of two prime numbers that exactly fit the requirement for a practical public key cryptography implementation.

Before them, and the two that came before them it was unanimously agreed in the cryptography community that the only way for two parties to establish secure communications was to first exchange a secret key of some kind. (Think ENIGMA.) This seemed to be simple common sense: if the recipient didn't have a secret to give them some leverage, how could they be in a better position to decrypt the message than an eavesdropper? Practically speaking, this meant that one of the parties first had to send a trusted person to the second party with a secret key (which typically took a fair amount of time), or send the key through an existing encryption channel that couldn't be completely trusted (if it was broken, all of the keys transmitted over that channel were also broken).

When the government heard about what those fellows @ MIT were up to, they tried to quash it.

RSA's breakthrough was first publicized August, 1977, in the magazine Scientific American, and included an offer from RSA to mail a complete report on the PKC method to anyone that requested it. Recognizing the power of the idea and fearing its use by non-government elements, the US National Security Agency (NSA) requested that RSA stop distributing the report. Unfortunately for the government, they had no legal basis for this prohibition. Lucky for us, because we use PKC just about every day, especially when we go to the bank.

I don't think any of this has any direct bearing on Paul's story, but it sure is interesting!

LBL

[Elizabeth Helen Drake]

Well, in a way Linda it does have ALOT to do with the Townsend Brown story because from what I have learned so far he spent most of his life protecting this country from outside threats. I am looking forward to Pauls next few chapters. Once there you will see what I mean by that statement.

And I am sure keeping a secure code system was a prime importance so I find it really oddly interesting that we would be talking about banking codes now. Because, you see, other than blinding our capabilities for defence one of the most important ways to harm this country would be through the banking systems.

I appreciate the lead in that direction but I am still trying to figure how we got from the cowboy story at A to a bankind code system at B. Sometimes though, have you noticed, its not so important HOW we got to the discussion but that the discussion is brought to our attention.

What was it Linda that drew your interest in this direction? Pretty strong inspiration and motivation , would be my guess. You are right, it is fascinating. Elizabeth

[Mikado14]

A pond is being covered at a rate that doubles each day. It takes 48 days for the entire pond to be covered. How long would it take to cover half the pond?

and 24 days to cover 1/2 the pond. Right?

Wrong, 47 days.

Mikado

[Bulwark]

A cowboy rides into town on a Friday, he stays three days looking for the three cowboys who paid $30 for a room but got... anyway, then he leaves on Friday. ???

There are only 3 words in "The English Language". What is the third?

A pond is being covered at a rate that doubles each day. It takes 48 days for the entire pond to be covered. How long would it take to cover half the pond?

His horse's name is Friday, The third word is Language, and 24 days to cover 1/2 the pond. Right?

LBL

Why do people always seem to want impress others? What is it about the human spirit that finds it necessary to appear as being intelligent? What is intelligence? If we sit and finish the crossword puzzle before our morning coffee is cold, does that qualify? If we look to Lady Justice and the scales, we could just as easily put ego on one and humility on the other. Can we judge ourselves and give a truthful answer?

I ask this, in previous posts I have asked about the different institutions that Qualight goes to, if you have a semi when you do it and I even asked if you would come to Alaska, you don't answer those but you sure do jump up to answer the riddles. Why is that?

Your silence is saying something but I just can't hear it but your alacrity in the riddle response is saying something else as well.

Please tell me I am wrong.

And yes, your first two answers are correct but you did not get the third correct. What about the punchline to the cowboy joke? Why did you feel compelled to answer only the riddles?

Bulwark

[Victoria Steele]

LindaB,
This is not meant to sound like " pick on Linda " week but this is a discussion about the life and work of Townsend Brown and two of your latest posts have had the comment

"Significance? none really. I just thought it was an interesting thing to talk about. I have always liked numbers. That's probably why I do what I do. It's all about numbers."

and then " I don't think any of this has any direct bearing on Paul's story, but it sure is interesting"

So what is happening here? To me it looks like a concerted effort to redirect the conversation to something that has no significance to the story but which interests you? Can you see why aggressive questioners like Bulwark would notice that and zero in on it? I am not going any further on this observation other than to call it to your attention.

This has been encouraged to be a freewheeling conversation forum ABOUT THE WORK AND LIFE OF TOWNSEND BROWN, and frankly thats what I want to talk about. We get off the subject sometimes but all of us should guard against that maybe.

I mean, not to be picking on you alone Linda, we are all guilty of it. We are all human and we enjoy each others company .....( Oh the romance is just FINE, thankyou very much he is the best thing that ever happened to me ) See? I just did it too!!! But I suggest that I shut up about him and maybe you could focus better on things that REALLY have something to do with Townsend Brown ..... and Bulwark, really. You must have been a trial to your Mother with all the " But Why Mommy " responses.

Lets all just " Why Mommy" just a little bit better focused on Townsend Brown himself? or his work? Or the events around his life? Instead of each other?

Poor Paul. He is just trying to put two and two together to come up with four. And we keep adding outside stuff! Victoria

[LongboardLOVELY]

Well, in a way Linda it does have ALOT to do with the Townsend Brown story because from what I have learned so far he spent most of his life protecting this country from outside threats. I am looking forward to Pauls next few chapters. Once there you will see what I mean by that statement.

And I am sure keeping a secure code system was a prime importance so I find it really oddly interesting that we would be talking about banking codes now. Because, you see, other than blinding our capabilities for defence one of the most important ways to harm this country would be through the banking systems.

I appreciate the lead in that direction but I am still trying to figure how we got from the cowboy story at A to a bankind code system at B. Sometimes though, have you noticed, its not so important HOW we got to the discussion but that the discussion is brought to our attention.

What was it Linda that drew your interest in this direction? Pretty strong inspiration and motivation , would be my guess. You are right, it is fascinating. Elizabeth

To answer Victoria, indirectly, I'll answer Elizabeth's post first. I think that what inspired me to talk about primes and primes being used in the modern technology of cryptography, in the public domain, and national security domains, is somewhat directly related to what Townsend Brown was involved. I understand from conversations I've had with both Andrew and Linda Brown that his projects, those that he and the Caroline Group hid from the public, were directly related to the security of the US (which is what you said above), and this is where my thoughts had converged when I was thinking about banking codes and modern cryptography.

For Stephenson and the Caroline Group, secrecy and the transmission of secure information (encryption) was extremely important. Much of what Stephenson was involved in was trying to obtain secret information and the spreading disinformation. If you remember Brown's meeting with Morgan from one of the earlier chapters, Morgan recognized the ability of Brown's speakers to transmit information that could not be detected. That has everything to do with security and encryption. I was just being polite to see if anyone would pick up on the connection.

Bulwark, concerning my jumping into the riddles, and not the cowboy riddle. Well, you threw out some riddles, I like riddles (although Mikado is a bit quicker on the draw than I am), and I believe Rocky already put the cowboy one to rest.

Also, if you could reference the Qualight website page referring to our currently going to different institutions (with a semi ?), I would appreciate it, but I believe you are referring to the description of the second part of the educational mission which describes only future educational projects.

LBL

[Victoria Steele]

LindB,

Thanks for your response.

You know I thought about it later. ( Yes, I have been known for that .... actually THINKING once I have opened my mouth) About my request to "focus" more and restrict these " I just found it "interesting" phrases and I am glad you came back with the answer you did because it reminded me that this is ALL CONNECTED whether dummies like me see the connection or not, and I really shouldn't be asking you to rein in your "interesting" feelings because this is how this information transmits. Did I just lose everybody? This is like the original " coded" transmission. This intuitive transfer of inspiration.

I mean Linda here got "interested" in something that seemed off the subject to me, but when she explored it further and then explained it further I had to admit that she was still very much on the mark and I shouldn't have fussed with her. Damn.

I am really sorry Linda. I won't do that again.

I have noted that some of the questions that are directed to you are pretty strident and almost suspicious sounding. (Mikado you know I am talking about you! Grinders a good one too, living up to his name. Maybe Bulwardks why, why, why questions too...... and others also) I think that they are all striving to uncover what is REALLY happening and you have to admit you and Andrew are a big part of this Townsend Brown story in the past and for the future.

So that is going to shine a pretty big light on you. I know things have been quiet in the before, but every page that Paul writes is going to shine more and more light on what happened in the past and interest in what might happen in the future. You haven't had to answer these kinds of pointed questions before maybe but I think you probably are going to have to get used to it. People are going to want to know just who you are! And what your future plans for this work are. And you have said that you and Andrew are a team. So Hello spotlight!

Sometimes I think these questions come across as " get Linda " like I said but I think thats just because you always seem to come up with such interesting answers. And you are at the center of it. I appreciate your graciousness. Better you answering than me! I am sometimes not known for graciousness either! Victoria

[Bulwark]

Bulwark, concerning my jumping into the riddles, and not the cowboy riddle. Well, you threw out some riddles, I like riddles (although Mikado is a bit quicker on the draw than I am), and I believe Rocky already put the cowboy one to rest.

I am sorry LongboardLOVELY but I was referring to your answering the riddles but not answering the joke. As to the cowboy riddle, I apologize to the forum and to you if I tread on any toes for all I wanted to do was basically to put my two cents in and I realize that my two cents is highly devalued . <G>

Also, if you could reference the Qualight website page referring to our currently going to different institutions (with a semi ?), I would appreciate it, but I believe you are referring to the description of the second part of the educational mission which describes only future educational projects.

LBL

Here is the post I was talking about:

viewtopic.php?t=407&start=30

I asked a series of questions and you never answered, I never said it was from your web page. Read my post.

I am not your enemy, I have a knack for asking a lot of questions. I notice how some ask one question, get an answer and fill in the rest with assumption. But by asking multiple questions, one can fill with more fact than assumption. In one of your posts under the greetings heading, you encouraged that to me. If I took it wrong, again, I apologize. You appear to be sensitive, which is a good thing, and I do respect what you and your husband are doing.

Bulwark

[Bulwark]

I have noted that some of the questions that are directed to you are pretty strident and almost suspicious sounding. (Mikado you know I am talking about you! Grinders a good one too, living up to his name. Maybe Bulwardks why, why, why questions too...... and others also) I think that they are all striving to uncover what is REALLY happening and you have to admit you and Andrew are a big part of this Townsend Brown story in the past and for the future.

Hello Victoria Steele, we haven't had the pleasure. You are right, I probably ask too many questions. If you review the posts under Greetings, you will see that LongboardLOVELY was very gracious to me and referred me to her and her husbands website. It fascinated me and thus the questions, besides, it is kinda in my line of work to ask questions. I have apologized to her and the forum and now to you. But I can't stop asking questions, it's just me! <g> If I become offensive...tell me. Oh, it was my Mother that encouraged my questioning nature for she told me that to not question, I would always dwell in the house of ignorance. Maybe she was wrong, maybe not, but I want to leave this world a little less ignorant.

Bulwark

[Chris Knight]

Hi Bulwark,

Thought I'd post since I see that the post you linked too was originally directed at me. I completely missed that post - sometimes it's hard to keep up with all of the new posts when we all get on at once! Linda is at work right now (day job), but she tries to catch up on the forums in the evenings, so she can answer your questions later.

The professional exam I was referring to is for the P.G. (Professional Geologist) certification. I passed the two hardest parts sections last year (4 hours each), but there's a California specific exam that's only 30 questions in an hour, and I missed it by 4 questions last year. That comes up on March 2. Is Qualight going to expand? LindaB keeps bringing up the subject of adding an environmental aspect, so if she stays on my back about it...we'll see.

The future educational aspects of our company mission are actually very exciting (aside from the two proposed exhibition buses). We've spent a good bit of time discussing options with the Brown family. Our vision is still coming into focus, but the idea of a non-profit place with dorm facilities and study /research / stable facilities seems to be the direction we are thinking. The Brown's, being horse people, would like somewhere wide-open where students can go to learn to take care of horses, ride, study art, music, technology, etc. The facilities would be supported by a variety of sources - donations, horse boarding, possibly a store where students could display their art (a small percentage of sales would go to the facility), concerts, and other standard sources. I would, of course, like for Qualight to be the primary supporter.

I know that description is a bit fuzzy at the moment, but the idea has great potential. We're still very much fleshing out the details and possibility.

Best,