Greetings - And Introductions, Please?

[Victoria Steele]

What the heck are you talking about here Justice. Vasillatos! Pie fight time!

Its OK for an author to state that a man spent the "remainder of his life in Umatillo Florida" and then you ask me to spend my time looking at what else he has put out there when he can't even get that right. Whats that all about? Did you even know enough about Townsend Brown to know that he was mistaken?

Tom instead of Townsend? That would tell me that he didn't really know the man he was writing about.
Would I be wrong in coming to that conclusion? And why aren't you critical of him? Why do you give him so much leeway? Unless it fits better?

Maybe you just don't have enough information yet? Maybe all that work that you did 6 years ago was based on falsehoods and you just don't want to go back to correct your opinions? OK with me if thats the case but if you want to paint yourself into the corner like that don't expect a whole lot of company and particularly don't expect others to follow you into that corner! (saying this with smiles and good humor, just so you know) Victoria

[Trickfox]

Darned
I hate it when all of you end up filling in a big thread that I missed.
I see our new forum member justice is full of energy and bubbling over with a desire to express himself.

Good....

May I recommend that any new member here try searching the forum for keywords just to see where we have been over the past couple of years. It's just an idea and I think it is worth checking out.

I do it all the time to see what we are talking about (AGAIN) that we have repeatedly talked about all this time.

Just a little bit of history repeating..... Like the turtle on the fence post.

One thing I'm sure glad about!!!

I've never seen anything out of the ordinary. No ufos, no saucers, no triangles, chevrons, or balls of light.

I've never witnessed anything paranormal, and quite frankly, I'm now convinced I know why.

There is no such thing as paranormal phenomena!

I'm sorry but I've become a skeptic

I'm convinced that everything under the sun has it's roots in subjective reality.

Whatever "IT" is; we can make it.... Whoever "they" are; we know them....

Now that I'm sure of it I say.... Let's just move on.

There is a lot more to Dr. Brown's life that we have yet to find out. As Paul continues to tell the story we get more and more information about Morgan and the continued work by the Caroline group in the early sixties.

I think the story is just getting more interesting as time goes by. I just know that we have several months of material left to find out about.

Wondering how Linda Brown did in the 70s and 80s. What was the technology she and her farther talked about and worked on together?

Who else got involved with them that we have yet to find out about?

Paul... you said we were about a little more than half way through the book right?

Trickfox

[greggvizza]

Justice,

I am like you in the sense that I am self employed and I know how frustrating it is to not have any spare time to do the things that you yearn to do. With that said, please answer this question: Have you read every page of Paul’s book yet? I realize that he is now on chapter 58 and that it would require a significant amount to time to read them all. Let me know, even if the answer is that you have not read it. It will help me to understand you better.

I have an analogy to help you understand the issue we had with your mega-posts. Think of this group as a scientific instrument that is calibrated to detect a single photon, and also able to discriminate between a single photon and two photons. Now what does this instrument detect if you point it at the sun? The answer is nothing. It saturates and the output is nothing. Same with a sensitive listening device that can detect 1 dB SPL. What is the output of that device if you present it with a 160 dB jet engine? The answer again is nothing. It clips and the output is nothing..

This is what you have experienced here. I am not saying that the ultra high resolving power that this group has been tuned to is always beneficial, it is just the instrumentation that was needed for the tasks at hand. There are uses for highly attenuated instruments that can image the sun or record the sound of a space shuttle takeoff. And perhaps we need one of those in our palette of human resources here.

GV

[Paul S.]

Paul... you said we were about a little more than half way through the book right?

That's as good a guess as any. In the "primary" thread, Townsend Brown lived 80 years from 1905 to 1985, and we left off there in 1945, so that'd be the half-way point, alright. And the last 20+ years or so are covered in the "secondary" thread (the "Morgan and Linda" thread). So yeah, "a little more than halfway" sounds about right to me.

Maybe more than just "a little."

--PS

[Mikado14]

Hi William,

I can see that you have an enormous amount of information on your mind. I know it can be difficult to sort through, and I appreciate that you have found these forums.

Two comments I had after reading your posts:

Vassilatos is an elusive person. I would like very much to talk with him, and I understand that a possibilty exists that David Childress of Adventures Unlimited Press may have some lead on his whereabouts. We all have questions regarding his writings on Townsend Brown. I'm sure that if we could all open up a dialogue with him, it would go a long way in helping all of us sort out the information in our minds.

All of the members in these forums have all come here through different paths and by different devices. One thing that we do is try to help each other bring together our own personal bits and pieces of puzzles into a coherent picture, so we were merely overloaded with information. A faucet is easier to drink from than a firehose kind of thing.

The second comment was regarding LaRC-Si, which was forwarded to me. I was under the impression that it had a very high dielectric constant, but the only reference I have for it is a constant of 3.2, which is not very high compared to say, tedlar. Perhaps you can shed some light on that if I have missed some key information. That line of thought would be best put in the technology section of the forums.

Best regards,

I am sick of vassilatos... I have my own thoughts on what he wrote, I wanted to share them, but they've been locked up, which doesn't make sense to me, but i have no control over it.

I can understand how some people feel the need to interview him, but I am not sure how much one can glean from simply talking to someone person. Now if we could talk to V and 10 of his sources, great, but if the subject matter he speaks of takes place 100 or many decades ago, its just not going to happen.

How could we corraborate anything V says? We can't.

So i prefer to just stick with what i know. If i have time i;ll try to share, as i did before.

Larc-si, dielectric questions, = depends on what it is doped with.

It sticks to just about everything including teflon, last i heard it was being incorporated into ultrathin circuit boards, flexible, due to high K.

Dope it with Carbon Aerogel. INjection mold it with Carbon Aerogel under a vaccum and lets see what amazing things can be done with such a skin?

Coat one side with a conductor, with wire to other side of skin...


><

Had to think on this one then a vibrational wave ( light bulb) went off.

LaRC-SI which is derived from "Langley Research Center - Soluble-Imide" This is a relatively new material for making lightweight circuit boards, that being said, you would not want a very high K value......would you?

As to Carbon Aerogel, well, I would dope a dielectric material with a different material to get some unigue results. Carbon Aerogels (nanotube best describes it) is used in the construction of High Value Capacitors but I know of no doping that is being done....care to inform me please?

Aerogels have been around since the 30's....I think. Andrew, any mention of this in Dr. Browns journals ?


Mikado

[Mikado14]

Perhaps if you formulated 10 questions, he might rear his head and answer them - what do you think about that? Of course you would actually have to THINK about what he wrote, you would actually have to INVESTIGATE the things he wrote about, and that would REQUIRE EFFORT to expended, which it seems to me none of you REALLY want to put forth.

10 questions people, is that sooo hard?

If you all care as much about the subject matter as you say you do, is that too much to ask?

><

Capital Letters.... I don't know about the rest of the forum but I think he is insulting us. A new chapter in how to prove your point and influence the masses.

Mikado

[Chris Knight]

Mikado,

After doing a quick search on Google, I'm slightly more informed about carbon aerogels. From what I understand, the "foamy" nature of the material creates a very large surface area throughout its body to allow a very high capacitance in an electrolytic-based capacitor/battery.

There is no mention in his journals regarding the substance. While I can't see a use for it in the linear engine arena (it's just inappropriate), he did test a wide variety of capacitors and batteries while looking at the petrovoltaic fluctuations. It might be interesting to look at.

[Victoria Steele]

Andrew,

Well, at least something good might have happened in our tortuous interaction with Justice League. I am SOOO happy that Paul is back and exerting his influence. I don't know how much more I could have taken of such ignorant words ( and those were mine!) When faced with that kind of ridgid ignorant attitude ..... added to so much disrespect ... the worst of me comes forward. It just feels so good suddenly........... that it is over. So happy to see Pauls post!

The thought came to me that maybe Justice League WAS a disinformation agent after all trying to divert our attention from the path that was picked up by our "forum hounds"

After all, Mr. Twigsnapper warned us earlier about " Red Herrings" and boy everything that Justice was trying so hard to promote sure smelled of it. He wanted to look at the " work" of Bruce Cathie HE SAID but I think he was just trying to get us to reveal some sort of connection between that man and Townsend Brown .

Information that could be gotten only from this forum. too. If he involved us and we bought into him, we would have simply handed over the material that he needed. But thats not what happened. We all went ...." Hold On... WHO ARE YOU? and what is your agenda? and of course that was way too close for compfort for Justice and thats when he started spinning off into space with the insults etc.

Cathie I'll just bet, needs that sort of link to pump up his own movie deal. Cathie and William Warwick the same person? As Trickfox has suggested? If not ... they certainly have been spending alot of time together because Cathies attitude has just filled Justice to the brim. And you can see it in their almost identical attitude. Amazing and confounding. But I am proud of us really. We didn't buy it. Yea!!! Victoria

[greggvizza]

I am guessing that William Warwick is his real identity, but who really knows. I typed "William Warwick" UFO into google and got quite a few hits. This one specifically http://www.coasttocoastam.com/guests/1382.html leads me to believe that he is not Cathie, but again who knows.

GV

[Chris Knight]

Victoria,

Yes, I was talking with LIZ...excuse me, it's rubbing off on me...I was talking with Elizabeth last night, and I had to agree that there may be some information of some pertinence to our work here in some of the posts. I'm sure I'll get the chance to go back over his earlier posts later.

William and Cathie are not the same person, but the inflection and style of writing between his and Cathie's (which Trickfox provided) was eerily similar. Someone's been hanging out with someone a lot. John Hutchinson had a convert like William, although that fellow was actually very pleasant. I wonder if anyone ever made a bid on Hutchinson's lab on Ebay - I didn't follow up. Oh, well.

Anyhow, I'm proud of everyone on the forums as well. I love it when we have new people join us, but it's nicer when they have at least a peripheral interest in Townsend Brown...since, you know, that's why we are all here

[Victoria Steele]

I agree with you Gregg. I believe William Warwick is who he says he is BUT there are things that don't fit.

He must have had a truly amazing experience. Why didn't he talk about this particular experience instead of trying to herd us into his " Cathie Corral" like a whole bunch of unthinking sheep? Why did he approach us that way? I mean. I wish he hadn't done that. This is from the link you mentioned

http://www.coasttocoastam.com/shows/2007/03/13.html

Phoenix Lights & the Norfolk Incident
Investigative writer William Warwick recounted his sighting of the 'Norfolk Incident' and presented a chronology of events surrounding the Phoenix Lights of 1997. On March 12, 1997 (the day before the main Phoenix Lights sighting) he witnessed a 400 to 600 foot wide boomerang-shaped craft float over his head in Norfolk, VA. The huge silent craft "looked like it was on parade" --as though it wanted to be seen, and while it was quite similar to the later reports of the Phoenix object, it was smaller and had a different number of domed lights, he said.

Was that when Justice ( William) got all fired up to start on all of these "investigations?" The thought strikes me of course? Is there a connection between the thing that he saw and the path he took? He said it " Looked like it was on parade ...as though it wanted to be seen."

Maybe it did! Maybe he was supposed to see it and respond to it. I mean it seems that William Warwick is just like a bright white piece of ball lightning. (wandering about and getting its information from somewhere else.) I just got the impression he had SO MUCH to say that it was overwhelming for him and he couldn't control it all. I am probably wrong and I shouldn't be giving him an excuse for his bad manners. Calling Mr. Twigsnapper " Sanctimonious?" oh oh. Though I would bet at this point Mr. Twigsnapper is just laughing at this whole situation. Victoria

[greggvizza]

Paul put him on the TTBrown front page in January 2007. I didnt remember his name from then. This link to the TTB home page came up in the google search. http://www.ttbrown.com/2007/01/index.html Scroll down under Phoenix Lights.

GV

[Elizabeth Helen Drake]

I have to admit this whole Mothers Day weekend was taken up by this punching bag contest ( it felt like) William doing the punching most of the time and the rest of the forum going " What the hell is this guy talking about."

And now it strikes me that maybe we missed something here that maybe we should have seen. Of course how can you see something when the person communicating with you is so busy being strident and ignorant .... We maybe now have some distance from Williams tirades to try to look at what was actually going on.

I am still asking myself , NOT WHAT he was trying to say ..... but WHY.

Its true that on the surface I could be led easily to believe that he had some sort of connection and plan working with Bruce Cathie, but as I write that my inner sense tells me thats not it. And I would bet that Bruce Cathie barely even knows William. Am I right Mr. Cathie?

But for some reason William has felt the urgency to embark on this campaigne to tell the world about Cathies " work" .... and then of course I invited him to the forum because of his experience with the black triangle. As tumululous as all of that was, and with Pauls locking of the thread, it sort of feels like that whole attempt at communicating went down the tubes. I don't understand Williams inability to just slow down, appreciate our position , take a deep breath and then SLOWLY try to explain to us what he feels so desperately he has to share with us. Instead I guess it was all too much, maybe too fast and opening a discussion with him turned into a scorched earth experience. I have wondered what Mr. Twigsnapper would say about all of this? Not much from him since that "horses mouth " comment. hmm Elizabeth

[Paul S.]

I just got the impression he had SO MUCH to say that it was overwhelming for him and he couldn't control it all.

When discussing this whole dust-up with Elizabeth last week, I made the comment, "if it feels to us that reading Justice's posts is like drinking from a fire hose...what must HE be drinking from?" or words to that effect.

Earlier in the year Justice/William shared some of his material with me, and I see that he can be quite prolific, actually. But it's one thing to be prolific, another thing altogether to communicate effectively.

And I think that's what most frustrates me about this whole business. Justice/William may indeed have some important things to share. When it comes to individuals who have encountered "giant flying triangles," I want to hear more. But for all the volume of material that Justice/William published here in the past week... I still don't know WTF was his point.

But rather than try to focus and narrow his points, rather than actual help us understand, it seems to me that he just went on the attack.

Maybe that's my fault because I was not receptive to his first posts earlier in the week. Maybe that put him in too defensive a posture for his own good. I dunno... I just know I don't think any of us need to see his point through his need for psychoanalysis.

Speaking of us: gold stars to everybody who engaged the debate. I think the most valuable lesson here is not what anybody actually said, but the manner in which everybody tried to be diplomatic and measured in their responses, even in the face of repeated harangues. The tone was very "gracious and resolute," as Elizabeth pointed out to me. Precisely the kind of attitude that, I think, would make Dr. Brown himself proud to be associated with all of you.

You have all comported yourselves most commendably in my eyes, and I salute you.

Justice/William -- who can still read but can not presently post -- may disagree with that assessment, but... well, consider the source.

Calling Mr. Twigsnapper " Sanctimonious?" oh oh. Though I would bet at this point Mr. Twigsnapper is just laughing at this whole situation.

I suspect as much myself, but when I read that, that was the last straw for me. That statement made it painfully clear that Justice/William did really know whereof -- or who-of -- he spoke. Did somebody say something about reading a book?

Justice/William may well go on to another venue now, and rant there that he has been "kicked out" of this one, but I will leave this weekend's thread right where it is so that anybody who questions the current disposition can read it for themselves and decide if we have been unnecessarily capricious.

Now then, where was I? Oh yeah... Drake Hotel, Philadelphia... April, 1966....

--PS

[greggvizza]

I am writing this mostly for William's benefit, if he is still reading the forum, but I am addressing it to the group, just in case he's not.

I saw the misunderstanding growing the first day and I was trying to resolve it, but I got mowed over and misunderstood. My analogy of this group to sensitive instrumentation was totally misunderstood and turned on its head by William. The whole purpose of that analogy was me reaching out to him and trying to explain to him why the group was not hearing him, in hopes that he would understand the way that we were calibrated and meet us there. I didn’t even suggest that he should try to change who he was in order to be included. My last sentence stated that maybe we are in need an instrument that can image the light of the sun and the sound of a space shuttle liftoff; meaning come on in, we can use your viewpoint, just use links instead of cut and paste mega-posts.

By his approach, from the first day, I suspected that he had not read Paul’s book. He was treating the forum like so many other UFO forums (which we are not). But if viewed in that light, there was really nothing wrong with the way he originally posted. It fits the style of those forums.
That is why I kept asking him if he had read the book. If he said, no not yet, then I was going to summarize a bit for him, so that he could lock into the overall vibe of this forum, but he didn’t answer that question until many requests later and by then the whole thing had already reached critical mass and Paul had to push the emergency shutdown button.

I think that this group's attitude towards his sightings of levitating boomerangs was ...and yeah, so what’s the big deal? He obviously was all worked up over the sighting and didn’t understand our implied (so what the big deal) attitude.

Had he paused for even a nanosecond I would have like to have explained to him that at least three people on this forum have built and flown TT Brown plasma based disks, and that the Brown family gave TTB’s lab notebooks to Andrew, and that TTB’s daughter Linda who was also his lab assistant is personally consulting to Paul, and that Twigsnapper was a WW2 special forces type, that was assigned as a personal body guard for TTB during the war and stayed on for years after that. I wouldn’t be able to summarize Morgan (who also consults to Paul), too complicated; he would have to read that for himself.

GV