Secrets unveiled

A place to engage extended discussions of things that come up on the ttbrown.com website. Anything goes here, as long as it's somehow pertinent to the subject(s) at hand.
Mark Culpepper
The Dean
Posts: 655
Joined: Sun Feb 19, 2006 6:02 am

stuck between sleep and dawn

Post by Mark Culpepper »

And can't sleep so might as well mess with your heads. As long as we are talking "fiction" (that maybe isn't) I have a thought about this lost finger thing. And actually, being the scholar that I think he is, I am betting that Paul has already floated this idea. Maybe I shouldn't mention the thought that struck me, but then, maybe I am meant to.

What if Dr. Brown WAS in the same situation as "that scientist in Germany" but he wasn't actually IN GERMANY, but in German hands. Would that make any sense. It hit the papers that Dr. Brown had lost his finger in an accident at a machine company on a machine run by another person. Remind me here, wasn't the accident close to Christmas 1936?

Look at the sort of things that Mr. Twigsnapper says regarding the papers account. Basically, "don't believe everything you read"

So! Help me out here!

Mikado, what do you think?

Elizabeth? Are you at liberty to confirm or deny that I might be right? Perhaps it was Dr. Brown that was captured like that and , maybe even tortured by having his finger taken off???/

I really am way out here but somehow it doesn't feel like a bad trail. Just a very dark one. Why would Mr. Twigsnapper tell an alternate story about the same event? Because maybe the truth is a blending of the tides? Just like Mikado said? Comments? Mark C.
Victoria Steele
Mysterious Redhead
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Joined: Mon Feb 20, 2006 7:06 am

WHAT?

Post by Victoria Steele »

Right now. Picture this! I am doing the Faith Hill version of " "WHHHAATTT????"

You got there ahead of me ! All of you! and I am not accustomed to that! But this girl doesn't storm off and recant later. WHAT? What are you actually trying to express here Mark? I just want to see if anything has become more solid!

Victoria
Mikado14
Mr. Nice Guy
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Location: Somewhere in Pennsy

Re: stepping out of the shadows

Post by Mikado14 »

twigsnapper wrote:Mikado,

My turn.

Mercury steps out of the shadows and unlocks the door. The year is not what you would expect. Tides go both ways. fiction for fiction? twigsnapper
Mr. Twigsnapper, I knew I would draw you out in the open and take your move. You just love to put me in check.

Here is a little diddy: The year is before the number when one retires but is after a dark day in October, a digit is lost in two places, one cannot be two. Years go positive as well as negative. Wrongful information can be as valuable as correct.

A quote comes forth : ‘I’d help whoever I would be allowed to help — and enjoy the adventure.’

I will continue chapter 2 tonight.

Best to you sir,

Mikado
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy
Mikado14
Mr. Nice Guy
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Re: stepping out of the shadows

Post by Mikado14 »

Paul S. wrote:
twigsnapper wrote:Mercury steps out of the shadows and unlocks the door. The year is not what you would expect. Tides go both ways. fiction for fiction?
Hah. Funny. Cute. What is that., an "either/either" ?

Funny that we're talking about Mercury too... today is the Transit.

http://sunearth.gsfc.nasa.gov/eclipse/OH/transit06.html

--PS
Actually Paul, I believe the gentleman is fairly clear and I am pretty sure who Mercury is. Well, I hafta go, someone just pulled up on a motorcycle.

Mikado
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy
Victoria Steele
Mysterious Redhead
Posts: 930
Joined: Mon Feb 20, 2006 7:06 am

party time

Post by Victoria Steele »

Hey guys! Has anyone heard Jimmy Buffetts latest from the " Take the Weather With You"

There is a song called "Party at the End of the world" Ya gotta listen to the words! Who inspires THAT fellow. I'd like to know? Victoria
Paul S.
Sr. Rabbit Chaser
Posts: 1361
Joined: Thu Mar 17, 2005 1:11 pm
Location: Psych Ward

Shadows

Post by Paul S. »

grinder wrote: was it Morgan? or Mr. Twigsnapper~ that told you about the "scientist" getting captured and losing his finger?
The original "scientist" account started with Morgan.
I could have sworn that Mr. Twigsnapper told that little story because I can remember thinking "Damn, these guys don't kid around" but I couldn't latch it on to anything. Anybody else remember that?
I believe you are referring to this post:

viewtopic.php?p=1413#1413
And its sort of a cumulative thing, each one of us adds a phrase or a concept, and it builds and builds. Someone said a long time ago that this forum was like a living breathing thing and boy do I see that. Waiting for the next breath.
I agree.... I get just as much from these exchanges as anybody else (confounding as some of the obliqueness may be....<g> )

--PS
Paul Schatzkin
aka "The Perfesser"
"At some point we have to deal with the facts, not what we want to believe is true." -- Jack Bauer
Paul S.
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German Hands -v- "in Germany"

Post by Paul S. »

Mark Culpepper wrote:What if Dr. Brown WAS in the same situation as "that scientist in Germany" but he wasn't actually IN GERMANY, but in German hands. ...Remind me here, wasn't the accident close to Christmas 1936?
That's actually a very astute observation. A valid possibiity, though now that I've checked my notes it does seem to differ substantially from the original "scientist" account. That version is pretty much "behind enemy lines" -- a whole episode from the "ROTS" that I haven't gotten to yet.

It occurs to me that with Las Vegas now looming only days away, I guess I'm going to have to resume writing this book again soon, huh?

That whole episode/conundrum will be among the first topics addressed. At least, chronologically, it's only a few years from where we left off (the "in Germany..." version, I mean)

--PS
Paul Schatzkin
aka "The Perfesser"
"At some point we have to deal with the facts, not what we want to believe is true." -- Jack Bauer
Victoria Steele
Mysterious Redhead
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Joined: Mon Feb 20, 2006 7:06 am

into a new life

Post by Victoria Steele »

You know, I get the impression that whatever Dr. and Mrs. Brown were doing the moment he quit the Navy, they were doing it of one accord.

And I am really looking forward to learning more about what Josephine was doing during those Washington years.

I still don't get the "finger loss thing" yet. Do you have a theory? It has occurred to me that IF it wasn't a machine shop accident and it was some sort of terrorist attempt on him (that was the phrase that Mr. Twigsnapper used , three terrorists) and ASSUME that the man collapsed in the chair in his little story was Townsend Brown .... then he was rescued? And of course the "lathe story" was the cover for the hometown gossips.

But NOW this makes a whole lot more sense then regarding what Josephine might have done. She was divorced later the next year. Why? Could Dr. Brown have been trying to distance himself from his family after realizing that he was in a nasty, terrible world? But she didn't distance too good from the looks of it! Even divorced , she ended up in Washington! This is not the action of a lady who is going to be put up on a shelf to be protected. I have alot of admiration for the lady. I think that she had alot of guts and I think that from the VERY FIRST she was protective of the man that she found so sweet and disarming. Disarming is one thing, being dis-fingered by three thugs is another. So, again I assume, if the "shooter" worked for Stephensons group then I'll bet Josephine was very thankful to him .... and Stephenson. I know that sometimes certain things throw you headlong into a lifestyle that you would never have expected for yourself and I think that this is what happened to Josephine. My opinion.

If that had been MY HUSBAND I would have been out to get the people who had hurt him. Is that what she was doing? Victoria
Paul S.
Sr. Rabbit Chaser
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Re: into a new life

Post by Paul S. »

Victoria Steele wrote:If that had been MY HUSBAND I would have been out to get the people who had hurt him. Is that what she was doing? Victoria
You know, a lot of what we're dealing with here is "theories" more than facts so... that strikes me as a pretty good one.

--PS
Paul Schatzkin
aka "The Perfesser"
"At some point we have to deal with the facts, not what we want to believe is true." -- Jack Bauer
Victoria Steele
Mysterious Redhead
Posts: 930
Joined: Mon Feb 20, 2006 7:06 am

theories and facts

Post by Victoria Steele »

Sometimes when you don't have the facts on a person you watch what he does and that can sometimes tell you as much.

Lets put the "finger loss" thing aside for just one moment, because as everybody says, unless you were actually there you would have a hard time proving it. But watch for the ACTIONS.

Dr. Brown is "recruiting" young prospects for a "cruise" that never materializes in Navy records , or anywhere else for that matter. He loses his finger in a "strange' event at the end of the year. The spring of the next year he is letting his "Hawthorne Club" go at auction (something I could never understand unless he figured he had something else that was much more important to do than keep the home fires and finances fueled. Josephine files and is granted a divorce. And apparently stays in Zanesville for a little bit, at least while Dr. Brown is on that cruise toward the end of 1938. In 1939 all hell breaks loose and sometime during that she moves to Washington and works for the " Housekeeping Unit of District three" whatever that was. Her husband spends time on that cruise (documented) and then at the University of Pa (documented) but then there seems to be a blank spot until they are REMARRIED IN SEPTEMBER of 1940.

Now from my other writings what else is happening? other than the world going to shit in a handbag. Donovan is going to Europe to talk about setting up an intelligence unit here in the United States based on the English format, (which everyone seems to agree was designed by William Stephenson.) I forgot when the BSC actually went above ground and had their own offices but I thought that it was 1940 also. So IF Josephine had been working for Stephensons group in Washington it probably would have been that summer ..... I don't know if she would have continued after they remarried later that fall, or not.

And then nearly two years to the month they are off to California.

Its all the good stuff that happened before they left Washington that I want to hear about! Have you had any other links to what she was doing, other than what Mr. Twigsnapper has told you? Got to be something or someone out there. Anyway. Down a rambling no answer road! Do I have my dates right? Victoria
Mark Culpepper
The Dean
Posts: 655
Joined: Sun Feb 19, 2006 6:02 am

Stephensons obituary

Post by Mark Culpepper »

Paul,

I am sure that you have gone over this but maybe others havent. I just wanted to copy it to point something out.
http://vikingphoenix.com/public/rongsta ... trepid.htm

Especially this interesting section:

NOTES:During World War II, William Stephenson set up Great Britain's spy operations in the Western Hemisphere and coordinated the exchange of intelligence between Great Britain and the United States. In this capacity, he also served as a trusted and confidential intermediary between Britain's Prime Minister Winston Churchill and U.S. President Franklin D. Roosevelt. Stephenson's influence extended to helping shape U.S. wartime intelligence and special operations capabilities, namely the OSS, later the CIA. Among the operations undertaken by Stephenson and his New York City based operation was the neutralization of Axis spies, including assassination of Nazi agents with hit and run automobile "accidents" and shooting another through the window of an office building. Such accounts helped inspire the modern spy novels, including the popular James Bond series written by fellow British spy Ian Fleming. A detailed account of Stephenson's life and exploits can be found in a book titled A Man Called Intrepid by William Stevenson, no relation. - by Richard Rongstad, 26 June 1997.

Now, I have read comments that have said that the above book is not all that correct ... so take some of this information guardedly but I did think that it was interesting that they would mention the "assasination of Nazi agents with "hit and run" automobile accidents and shooting another through the window of an office building.

Now if that was the Stephensons side of things maybe he did in fact have "hired assassins" on his payrole. So it is concievable that the "shooter" as Mr. Twigsnapper called him could have existed and could have been there to save a Stephenson "operative", if that in fact was what Dr. Brown was. It sure fits the times. And if he is doing THAT .... perhaps the German agents were guilty of the same actions. So kidnapping and torture for information probably was not beyond them? Guys note what Mr. Twigsnapper says after he tells his little story about the man collapsed in the chair and the "shooter who steps out of the shadow" Can you find it? He says something like " Freedom is found down the barrel of a gun" I'll see if I can find that because I think that Mikado is right . We need to look at EVERYTHING that Mr. Twigsnapper has said, in detail. Mark C.
Mark Culpepper
The Dean
Posts: 655
Joined: Sun Feb 19, 2006 6:02 am

harsh words?

Post by Mark Culpepper »

Mr. Twigsnapper continued another message after talking about the "shooter who stepped out of the shadows" with this comment: He was talking about an old friend of his who had just recently passed away but I think that he was talking about others too.

"He had something else to say about "rough men" who are there while "others slept" and before I get too roundly criticised for telling that violent little story earlier, I'd like to mention his warning. Then you folks can talk about it ,maybe, and perhaps even think about it a little. I will leave you now because I think that I need to stand somewhere at the edge of a crowd as this great man is put to rest.

He said " Young people need to know that peace grows out of the barrel of a gun, become weak and you will be invaded and all the peaceful intentions in the world won't change that."


Sobering words, thats for sure. Mark C.
twigsnapper
Revered Elder
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eye for an eye

Post by twigsnapper »

Paul,

Once you get back to work on monday you might review some of the things that Elizabeth may have mentioned to you regarding Donovan and Stephenson. I know that you need to double check for other back up information so this is a headstart.

On April 10, 1940 Patricia Donovan (daughter to "Big Bill") was killed in something that was closed as an "automobile accident"

On May 29th William Donovan spirited his wife to the deck of a sailing ship and watched as she sailed out of the harbor in the company of some good friends and associates. She would be gone for months.

He turned then to business , leaving for London on July 1940.

William Stephenson was the head of the SIS at the time (Special Intelligence Section) . As Donovan departed Stephenson wired London

"Col Wm J. Donovan personally representing the president, left yesterday by clipper. US EMBASSY NOT, REPEAT NOT, being informed."

After the war Stephenson and Donovan went into the concrete business in the islands.

Just throwing some fodder as Mikado would say. twigsnapper
Mikado14
Mr. Nice Guy
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chapter 2

Post by Mikado14 »

Mr. Twigsnapper,

I know I promised chapter 2 but I thought that I would do something a little different.

You mentioned that Mercury stepped through the door. Who or whom gave him the key? Who was the doorman? Mercury certainly did not derive the key himself.

Would a better name for Mercury be Johnny Appleseed? And if so, who decided what seeds would be sown upstream and/or downstream?

I know where I am going but it is too wild. Should I employ Occam's razor?

Take care of yourself, sir

Mikado
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy
grinder
Senior Officer
Posts: 694
Joined: Wed Apr 05, 2006 6:20 am

unlocked the door.

Post by grinder »

I think that you and I, Mikado, are strangely on the same wavelength.

You are right, the more you look at what Mr. Twigsnapper has said, the more interesting. And you have to watch the words that he uses and the way he uses them. Taking the simplest explanation here. What would that be? Mr. Twigsnapper said that the "shooter "stepped out of the shadows"

right?

Now I think I am beginning to see what you have seen? I have the feeling that this is the right track and I think you are on it with me too. too. Upstream and downstream indeed! How absolutely ironic. And if Dr. Brown was unconcious, I wonder if he ever knew?

I think I just have to muzzle myself now and sit quietly until after Vegas.And I appreciate your company Mikado. I am SURE that you and I know the same thing.

BUT I don't think that I want to say it out loud. Maybe I don't have enough guts. Maybe I am afraid if I say it out loud my world will never look the same again? Could Paul actually be going in this direction? Will he go out this far? grinder
Locked