Two units, sending/receiving

A place to engage extended discussions of things that come up on the ttbrown.com website. Anything goes here, as long as it's somehow pertinent to the subject(s) at hand.
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Mikado14
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Re: stuck in the intellectual mud

Post by Mikado14 »

Elizabeth Helen Drake wrote: How it actually forces you to choose a "specialty" which then further alienates you from other fields of knowledge.
Agreed. Why what ever happened to Gilbert Erector sets, chemistry sets, etc. ......Lawyers and product liability, they have killed the enthusiasm of youth and replaced it with instant gratification. The word "scientist" comes from science, not specialist.

Elizabeth Helen Drake wrote:
And heres the tough spot. Do you assume that everything in your field has been uncovered already/ or that you adopt the same attitude which Dr. Millikan did toward Townsend Brown wheh he said that his students idea was impossible and "not to be considered"

I guess that quite a few people do that and then when they run into someone like Dr. Brown who has such a wide ranging intellect it is upsetting to say the least. So some resort to name calling. Or rumor mongering. And its alot easier to haul out the character assasination guns when the intellectual ammo has run out.
Or how about asking a Physics Instructor why is it that if you compare Newton and Einstein and his response is that one is relativistic and one is not and then asking at what velocity do you know to use which and then being thrown out of class for being disruptive? Would that be the attitude? My name for that is constipation of the brain. It is rampant in some circles.

Just had to get on my soapbox with you Elizabeth.

Just a ramble, ramble ...ramble.......

Where are you Mr. Twigsnapper?

Mikado
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy
Mikado14
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Re: that is correct mikado

Post by Mikado14 »

Trickfox wrote:Trickfox (51-fyi)
Well, next week it will be 53 and feeling like much more.

Glad I made you laugh, we all need it.

Take care,

Mikado
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy
Mikado14
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Re: relationships

Post by Mikado14 »

Mikado14 wrote:Trickfox,

You must be younger than I. I can remember making a "cat's whisker" radio when I was about 9 from a cub scout manual.

Not trying to over shadow you here but bear with me for you may have hit upon something.

The Cat's whisker was a piece of phosphor bronze that I took from a slot car at the time. The diode in actuality was a piece of galena. You also needed to wind a coil and a capacitor to make a tuned circuit and a very long wire between two trees or you could do what I did, we had steel pipes with the old cast iron radiators, tied it off on a pipe, worked great.

For all you budding scientists' out there, look up galena.

Thanks Trickfox, I needed a kick in the...... to remember.

Mikado

PS Victoria I expect to see you first.
No one has looked up galena? Here is a hint Pbs and you can get it in any.......

Andrew, let someone else figure out the relationship and let them answer, ok? <g>

Mikado

a Mikado hint = a blind man with a cane would have seen it and thanks to Trickfox, he put the cane back in my hand.
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy
Elizabeth Helen Drake
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did he mention galena?

Post by Elizabeth Helen Drake »

Mikado,

You know that I am no scientist but I have seen the word " galena" in Dr. Browns notes and maybe Paul can give us more information on that after Vegas.
Looking it up of course I read that it is a lead sulfide. Now since I sat so far back in my chemistry class I was like, out in the hall, I don't really know what that means. But I realize that dealing with lead in any form might be problematic. I do note that it is one of the best dielectric available and thats what Dr. Brown would have been looking for, right? Am I on the right trail Mikado?

Please, guys out there with more knowledge of chemistry and metals etc step up here and give us your valued opinions. Victoria? anybody else?

Elizabeth
Mikado14
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Re: did he mention galena?

Post by Mikado14 »

Elizabeth Helen Drake wrote:Mikado,

You know that I am no scientist but I have seen the word " galena" in Dr. Browns notes and maybe Paul can give us more information on that after Vegas.
Looking it up of course I read that it is a lead sulfide. Now since I sat so far back in my chemistry class I was like, out in the hall, I don't really know what that means. But I realize that dealing with lead in any form might be problematic. I do note that it is one of the best dielectric available and thats what Dr. Brown would have been looking for, right? Am I on the right trail Mikado?

Please, guys out there with more knowledge of chemistry and metals etc step up here and give us your valued opinions. Victoria? anybody else?

Elizabeth
Yes, it is lead sulfide but in .............form.

Andrew, again, don't you answer, by now you might see where I am headed, let the others catch it.


Mikado
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy
Chris Knight
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Post by Chris Knight »

Mikado,

OK, but hint, Galena is belongs to the salt (NaCl) structure. It also has a decent specific gravity of 7.5 g/cc.

Just to comment on what Elizabeth said about the lead content (and following other lines of Townsend's research) to ease her conscience.

We've looked at a number of lead-content materials. Although they can be advantageous, based on the scope of the project we hope to develop, we have come at the problems from an entirely different direction based on environmentally-neutral materials.

It's been more difficult and time-consuming, of course, but we've found some very interesting materials that appear to be as effective, if not better, than lead, albeit a bit more unusual.

Andrew
Mikado14
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listening

Post by Mikado14 »

Chris Knight wrote:Mikado,

OK, but hint, Galena is belongs to the salt (NaCl) structure. It also has a decent specific gravity of 7.5 g/cc.

Just to comment on what Elizabeth said about the lead content (and following other lines of Townsend's research) to ease her conscience.

We've looked at a number of lead-content materials. Although they can be advantageous, based on the scope of the project we hope to develop, we have come at the problems from an entirely different direction based on environmentally-neutral materials.

It's been more difficult and time-consuming, of course, but we've found some very interesting materials that appear to be as effective, if not better, than lead, albeit a bit more unusual.

Andrew
Now that you felt the need to answer, the cub scout manual calls galena as Pbs in rock form and is used in making a crystal radio. Where I was headed was to see if anyone connected that with petrovoltaics.

I suppose the manual is wrong, I will adjust and thanks for the heads up.

Mikado
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Post by Chris Knight »

Mikado,

Ah, I answered, but I didn't give the answer away. Galena (PbS) has a cubic structure similar to rock salt (NaCl) group, and was used in cat's whisker crystal radio sets. I've seen pictures of sets people have known - very nice. Galena is a natural semi-conductor and was a forerunner of the diode.

The structure of PbS is similar to NaCl in that it forms the following ionic structure -

Na - Cl - Na
Cl - Na - Cl
Na - Cl - Na

and

Pb - S - Pb
S - Pb - S
Pb - S - Pb

I'm not sure how you or the manual are wrong ? Sounds right on, but perhaps I missed something ?

Now that you mention it, though, Townsend did find that lead-containing materials expressed a potentially valuable avenue for his petrovoltaic sensors. Also, if you remember his earliest gravitors (I refer to them as linear engines) were composed of litharge - a chemical mixture of glycerine and lead monoxide (PbO). They undergo an exothermic reaction to form a solid mass.

Do you, or anyone else, know why lead might be a good material for working with Brown's research. Better than say, silver or copper, which are better conductors?

Andrew
Mikado14
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Post by Mikado14 »

Chris Knight wrote:Mikado,

Ah, I answered, but I didn't give the answer away. Galena (PbS) has a cubic structure similar to rock salt (NaCl) group, and was used in cat's whisker crystal radio sets. I've seen pictures of sets people have known - very nice. Galena is a natural semi-conductor and was a forerunner of the diode.

The structure of PbS is similar to NaCl in that it forms the following ionic structure -

Na - Cl - Na
Cl - Na - Cl
Na - Cl - Na

and

Pb - S - Pb
S - Pb - S
Pb - S - Pb

I'm not sure how you or the manual are wrong ? Sounds right on, but perhaps I missed something ?

Now that you mention it, though, Townsend did find that lead-containing materials expressed a potentially valuable avenue for his petrovoltaic sensors. Also, if you remember his earliest gravitors (I refer to them as linear engines) were composed of litharge - a chemical mixture of glycerine and lead monoxide (PbO). They undergo an exothermic reaction to form a solid mass.

Do you, or anyone else, know why lead might be a good material for working with Brown's research. Better than say, silver or copper, which are better conductors?

Andrew
Thank You Andrew.

To answer your question, yes, I believe I do but will leave that for others to ponder upon.

Mikado
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy
grinder
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greeat discussion, simple questions

Post by grinder »

Guys, and Ladies, of course,

I can't begin to translate some of the science here, though I know that you all have probably geared it down specially for people like me. I think I might have been hiding behind Elizabeth when our chemistry class was in session. Well, wait ... she wouldn't have been there for too long so I would have been there all by myself. Cripes.

But She says that we all have valuable thoughts to contribute, so here goes mine. ASSUMING (Victorias favorite word) that Dr. Brown was "given" some kind of informational "download" when he was still a student and before he married Josephine, then how long did it take him to actually realize that what he was recording could have been "messages" of a type ...... and then how long after that was it before he was able to understand the technology enough to develop the "sending" end?????

Like Mikado said just listening to a radio isn't really "communicating". So I wonder when the "breakover" was? And once he could "phone out" WHAT HAPPENED THEN? Surely something that monumentous would have registered in the mans life, one way or the other! In his personal life? In his scientific career? In his Navy career? Well, wait .... he walked out on that ..... didn't he. Now maybe theres a thought. WHY would he walk out of the Navy unless he had figured a way to turn it around and communicate? Would that have been a possibility?

Either he hit the streets with EXTRA, EXTRA or he suddenly got much more secretive. And since I haven't seen the paper headlines I am assuming agian that he went very, very black. But into whose black?

Paul, will you be able to talk about this question and theory in Vegas? Am I even halfway close? grinder
Victoria Steele
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The odder things get

Post by Victoria Steele »

grinder,

I have figured that when someone does something that is odd for his character, he is usually up to something. Personal experience.

In Dr, Browns case I think thats the answer to your question " When did he discover the "sending" part of his unit?

Want my guess?

Just before he left the Navy. He had been running his sensors, he seemed to be doing well, Paul said his "report cards" or the Navys version of a report card was that he was excellent and valuable in his field and then suddenly BOOM! He RESIGNS from the Navy. Does that make any sense to anyone?????

I call that a high level of odd.

Then his best friend according to some and according to Paul perhaps his "partner" (They work in PAIRS) Paul has said , puts out the story that Brown worked hard, overtaxed himself, had a breakdown and was then retired from the service. None of that was the truth! I think that from the way Paul and Linda have treated Mr. Kitselman, they do not figure him out to be a liar. He apparently did what was needed. Disinformation. BUT WHY?

All exceedingly odd. Anyway. I added all that up, and some other points I won't bother to go into, and came to my own conclusion that 1942 (maybe going into going into 1943 ) thats when Dr. Brown figured that he could SEND too.

Boy oh boy. Lets just listen to what Paul is going to say about what he actually did during those years and I'll just bet that the level of "strange" just rings off the meter! Victoria
grinder
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downloads

Post by grinder »

Looking for "evidence" of "downloads" how about this Victoria, but the date is 1926. Of course this is a SPACE SHIP not a phone home system, so maybe it doesn't count, or maybe he hadn't gotten around to the communications part of it yet. Man these "downloads" as Paul has called them must have been pretty impressive. check this out.

https://www.ttbrown.com/defying_gravity/blueprints.htm

Especially you admirers of Nick Cook (me too) take a look at the end of the chapter. Ringing off the "strange " chart yet? Mikado had you seen this? Whats your take?

"If we didn't know better, we might be inclined to think that there's more than a slight resemblance between Brown's 1926 drawings above and this rendering of a "G-Engine" powered flying vessel that appeared in the 1956 magazine article that started Nick Cook off on the trail that produced his bestseller, "The Hunt For Zero Point."

AS I RECALL THAT PICTURE WAS LEFT MYSTERIOUSLY ON COOKS DESK.


grinder
Mikado14
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Re: downloads

Post by Mikado14 »

grinder wrote: Especially you admirers of Nick Cook (me too) take a look at the end of the chapter. Ringing off the "strange " chart yet? Mikado had you seen this? Whats your take?

Very simple answer. It reminds me of Buck Rogers spaceship. Going on a limb here and since none of you really will ever know me other than Mikado, here goes. I called them "AG" pods with one on each corner, in this configuration you could get all axis of movement and was more efficient than combining into one vehicle.

When it comes to adapting "gravity waves" for communication, one must realize that there are similarities between, electricity, magnetism, the emspectrum and.....the gravity spectrum for lack of a better word. Everything in the universe is related, try living in your body without electricity just for starters. Oh, and don't forget resonance, it is in everthing. (simply put) You want to communcicate? .............reason it out

Mikado
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Key Date

Post by Paul S. »

grinder wrote:Paul, will you be able to talk about this question and theory in Vegas? Am I even halfway close?
I believe I will be addressing the period when these things started happening, though I will not address specifically the point you raise here.
Victoria Steele wrote:I added all that up, and some other points I won't bother to go into, and came to my own conclusion that 1942 (maybe going into going into 1943 ) thats when Dr. Brown figured that he could SEND too.
Victoria can go to the head of the class and collect her gold star. The pivota date IS 1942;

When I get to that part of the presentation, you'll know that the answers to your questions are sorta buried beneath what I will be talking about, even if those questions are not specifically addressed; That's about as much inside skinny as I can share now.
That help?

--PS
Paul Schatzkin
aka "The Perfesser"
"At some point we have to deal with the facts, not what we want to believe is true." -- Jack Bauer
Victoria Steele
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gold stars

Post by Victoria Steele »

Great! Thanks for telling me that I was on the right track. That means alot.

So, have others involved in this "Conference" reached out to "the new kid on the block" or are they all huddling in their own corners, growling over their information?

I have done some wondering how these folks are going to react to the information that you will have to present. Frankly, I would be prepared for
ANYTHING AND EVERYTHING according to their personalities.

After all you are the "new kid on the block"

I haven't moved as many times as Linda Brown has but I have moved some and the usual rule is that the insiders (thats them) regard the outsiders (thats you) with varying degrees of suspicion. All depends on how secure they are in their own shoes, as my grandmother used to say. The ones who are worried about being properly shod will be worried about your appearence on the scene. The ones who have their shoes nailed down will welcome your help and they will lend a hand. Its an interesting thing to watch, this first confrontation. And actually its almost more telling about them and what they know than what you do.!

Was it Andrew who said that he just wanted to listen to the responses, good, bad and indifferent. I doubt though there will be many in that third area. Victoria
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