Seeds dropped in a field

[twigsnapper]

I may step in there and disaggree with you somewhat Trickfox, I am not sure of the level of conciousness in animal behaviour but I can guarantee you that they do understand deception. In fact deception of your foes is a basic animal instinct. We can learn much from them.

Have you ever watched a grouse hen flip and flop , drawing the crafty fox away from her nest? Watched that same fox outsmart hounds in outrageous behavior. I know of one particularly crafty beast that used to draw the hounds in a circle and then right into the doghouse of an enormous Irish Wolfhound. Somehow he had made a pact with that big dog. The dog would let him pass unhurt and then simply wait for the hounds that he knew would be drawn by the scent, right to his doorstep.

So do not fall into the trap of thinking that animals are so far beneath us.They must not be so Mr. Trickfox, or you would not be so honored with the name you have picked!

Soon I am sure you will run into the work of Townsend Browns good friend, Beau Kitselman. I am sure he would have enjoyed this thread of conversation. But for those who are not too familiar with him, try reading his booklet " Hello Stupid!" which I believe you can find on the net.

Twigsnapper

[Victoria Steele]

Mikado.

I think that you and I might have reached common ground here, with all the help that our discussion has had from everybody else. Hi guys!

I have read our posts over and over and what seems to stand out to me is that it is bothersome to you to think of this "life force" that we have been talking about getting all the credit for the moments of great creativity and brilliance that mankind is cabable of achieving on his own . ( right so far?) and I agree with you totally.

So when Paul says that some individuals seem to be "precoded" with the ability to receive messages. Sort of like a wireless that has been preset to the right channel, does that take anything away from the abilities of that individual?

He/she would not then possibly react to the "incoming messages" without putting his/her own special "spin" on the information. So its not really the information that is so important then actually, its the way that the individual reacts to it.

Does that increase his level of importance in this "dance" of intelligence? He just doesn't sit there like a sponge. He is called on then to interact with his own intelligence. Its a dance. and I am sure that your mentor would nod at me now. Its not an easy dance though, Ask Paul. <g> Victoria

[Mikado14]

I may step in there and disaggree with you somewhat Trickfox, I am not sure of the level of conciousness in animal behaviour but I can guarantee you that they do understand deception. In fact deception of your foes is a basic animal instinct. We can learn much from them.

Twigsnapper

A hen grouse deceiving the enemy in the protection of her young would in most cases be called the mother instinct and it is found in many species. It is a form of deception but for survival of the species. Ever see a hen grouse do what you say when she is not sitting? Or how about a Kildare?

Whereas the deception, in what I believe Trickfox meant, is the intentional lying to deceive someone out of something, either tangible or otherwise, for a gain and not survival.

I don't know of any other species that will deceive their own species in which the gain is not survival, the only one I know of is man.

I could be wrong, probably am but it is my opinion and that's all. (Elizabeth, how's that statement for the glass being half-empty)


Mikado

[Mikado14]

I will go a bit further

I have read our posts over and over and what seems to stand out to me is that it is bothersome to you to think of this "life force" that we have been talking about getting all the credit for the moments of great creativity and brilliance that mankind is cabable of achieving on his own . ( right so far?) and I agree with you totally.

My last post to Grinder says it all. It is not "bothersome", it is flat out wrong for my beliefs. I am not attempting to or would I want to convert anyone. It is what it is. Secondly, the life force is not where the inspiration comes from.

So when Paul says that some individuals seem to be "precoded" with the ability to receive messages. Sort of like a wireless that has been preset to the right channel, does that take anything away from the abilities of that individual?

As a matter of fact, I never said it did. Read the post to Grinder. It makes the person......special?

He/she would not then possibly react to the "incoming messages" without putting his/her own special "spin" on the information. So its not really the information that is so important then actually, its the way that the individual reacts to it.

I suppose you could put it that way, I have to sort through the double negative. However, the information is important, very much so, but then you are correct, it is the reaction of the individual to do something or not with it,,,,choice.

Does that increase his level of importance in this "dance" of intelligence? He just doesn't sit there like a sponge. He is called on then to interact with his own intelligence. Its a dance. and I am sure that your mentor would nod at me now. Its not an easy dance though, Ask Paul. <g> Victoria

Called on by whom? Dance? I can't follow that either. As for my mentor, I know they would not have agreed with the personification of the life force or the Akashic Record. That would be akin to the personification of gravity.

Best

Mikado

[Mark Culpepper]

Mikado,

You mentioned that this "life force" can be "utilized" in many ways, one of which being the ability to access this wonderful "library". You touched on healing too.

Can't things flow in both directions?

I mean. If the "life force can be used by us to achieve these things ...... then .... isn't it possible that the "lifeforce" is also "using" us to achieve these goals? You seem to draw a line in the sand there.

Just pondering. Because if it is a two way street, then what Paul has been suggesting is also a possibility. That there might be "instructions" ( for want of a better word) "downloaded" to individuals wired properly to accept them? .

Have you heard that the CERN Institute has adopted the figure of "Shiva" to represent what it is studying in the dance of subatomic particles? Perhaps they too are seeing that there is this dance back and forth. On the level they are studying, from one particle here in this domain to another particle in another. The quantum "foam" I have heard it called. Perhaps in some strange connection that is what we are talking about here too. Still pondering.

Elizabeth, where are you? This is just your kind of topic. Mark C.

[Trickfox]

I may step in there and disaggree with you somewhat Trickfox, I am not sure of the level of conciousness in animal behaviour but I can guarantee you that they do understand deception. .

Twigsnapper

Ah... But Mr Twigsnapper, I was not speaking of deception BETWEEN animals, but rather deception as WE humans understand it. Deception between species of animal is said to be instinctive and without "malice" whereas the deception I speak of is "cruel" and "evil" and without purpose.
If Pavlov's bell rings and Pavlov's dog start to salivate, then Pavlov refuses to feed it. Does the dog understand that the bell was "deception"? how many times will Pavlov have to re-train his dog to understand what Human deception is?
THAT is true meaning of deception. It is a human concept not subject to anthropomorphism.

Respectfully

Trickfox

[Trickfox]

I just read Mikado's response to Mr. Twigsnapper and I see that Mikado picked up on what I meant also. Thanks my friend!!
Trickfox

[twigsnapper]

Ah, exactly Trickfox. A point well made.

There is deception and then there is deception.

The natural instinctive behavior of an animal to protect its nest or its young .... or its herd ..... or its tribe ..... or its family ..... that, you are right, is WITHOUT MALICE.

You will see in the story of Townsend Brown that he was a person that demonstrated this first form of "deception" to a high degree. There were things that he was obliged to do which other could call deceptive. He was not able to share with his family his motives for doing certain things. He drew attention away from sensitive areas. Was that deception? Yes. In the finest form. And he was a master in that form of deception.

Talk to me about deception on the other side. I know that world. Someone once said that everyone has an agenda. Each agenda fits the personality of its holder. If greed, maliciousness, cruelty is there in that personality then it will be noticed in the deception that flows from that agenda. Its all part of it. But deception itself can be free of all of that, as Dr. Browns was.

Just from my side. Twigsnapper

[twigsnapper]

Just adding a thought. Trickfox. There is ALWAYS PURPOSE. We may not understand what that is. But there is always purpose or agenda in all deception. My opinion.

What you are saying here is much the same as saying that animals don't kill for the "sport" of it. But thats not really true. I have seen animals kill for the sport. then walk away. game finished. People have said that humans are the only creatures on earth that wage war on each other, but thats not necessarily true either. Though it came as quite a surprise when folks studying chimpanzees discovered that they were arming themselves and setting off on raiding killing sprees.

Perhaps the answer to all of that is that we are ALL animals. Our particular intellect does not isolate us from the good or bad of what is out there for all of us.

I have a lady friend who happens to know animals extremely well. She is constantly amazed and perplexed when her friends respond to one of her little dogs with the exclaimation "Oh, they are just SO HUMAN" to that she generally sighs........" no ....... what you see is what we all share. They are not human ..... we are the animals they are too." Twigsnapper

[Trickfox]

Mr Twigsnapper
I have to smile as this last post of yours reminds me of a recent incident which happened up here in Canada. I live in a nearly (97%) French speaking population. I am surrounded by many people who simply do not speak, read, or understand English.

Recently a friend of mine from California came to visit me in Québec, and we went to a private "John-the-baptist" holiday party. (celebrated mostly by French seperatists). Of course my friend did not speak or understand French at all, but all the other persons at the party had a basic understanding of English, and so the majority of the evening was spent in broken English mixed with French and I was busy translating a lot of the rest on the misunderstandings.

Many of the guests were drinking bear and spirits, except for myself (medical conditions prevent me..) After a few hours of drinking and laughter, the host's Rotweiller came into the back yard and started to scrutinize, sniff, and push around many of the guest in it's usual demanding style. The host promptly yelled a few French expressions at the dog to get it to go lie down in it's doghouse.

My American friend, -with a stunned, surprized and half drunken look on his face turned and looked at the host and uttered "What... the dogs speaks FRENCH????". All of us suddenly realized that our American guest was serious, and we all folded over laughing, -some even spitting out beer.
This incident is something we still tease our American friend over to this very day.

The point is, that it is so easy for us to make assumptions about the comprehension of our natural world. Nature itself may be very deceptive, but from my personal point of view I certainly hope that Nature will remain benignly deceptive, because I despise blood sport.

Trickfox

[twigsnapper]

As for despising bloodsport, ah, spoken by a very wise fox.

A fox should despise being chased and torn to shreds.

And the world should be without that. But it is not.

And humans devise all manner of bloodsports.

And perhaps looking at it the way it really is, you can SAY that humans are wise and tolerant and against bloodsport. But that does not make it so.

Was it Abe Lincoln who asked once how many legs a hound had if you counted its tail as a leg? His response was " Four" .... because calling a tail a leg does not make it one. Twigsnapper

[Trickfox]

Remember Mr Twigsnapper...

I said I HOPE.... that nature is benign. That means that I cannot expect anything as I move forward. I am comforted that people such as yourself are beside me to give me guidance and remind me of the caution I must observe as we all step into the unknown future of our existence.

Trickfox

[twigsnapper]

Ah, Mr. Trickfox, Hope is the essence and the key to the future. Twigsnapper

[Mikado14]

Mikado,

You mentioned that this "life force" can be "utilized" in many ways, one of which being the ability to access this wonderful "library". You touched on healing too.

Can't things flow in both directions?

I mean. If the "life force can be used by us to achieve these things ...... then .... isn't it possible that the "lifeforce" is also "using" us to achieve these goals? You seem to draw a line in the sand there..

Things can and do flow in both directions but not with the life force, you tap into it, sort of like plugging into your wall outlet but that is where the simile stops. With the Akahsic Record, it would be as if you were reading a book. Can you communicate with a book? In a manner of speaking you do but it is only one way. As far as what does go in both directions I will call it exactly what it is, communication, but it is not the life force you are communicating with, it is only the medium through which it is done.

Just pondering. Because if it is a two way street, then what Paul has been suggesting is also a possibility. That there might be "instructions" ( for want of a better word) "downloaded" to individuals wired properly to accept them? .

I believe I kinda, sorta, in a way....answered this in a previous post. I will attempt to clarify. In my belief, when a ..soul? (for lack of a better word) is incarnated into this life, we bring with us the tools, the abilities etc for what our goals are that we have set forth for this life.

I realize that my answers are not specific and that is on purpose or should I say that they are as specific as I will go. This forum is not for spiritual ideals, theologies or the esoteric. My only goal was to point out the similarities that I saw.

As for me, I have had affirmation through an experience that what I have stated is correct within the limited abilities of my human mind. Do I believe that Dr. Brown may have found a way to do this from a physical point of view?

Mikado

[Mark Culpepper]

You know something guys, I think that we have walked beyond the tree line here.

You know, thats the point where trees don't grow on the mountain, the invisible line where most of the trees don't go beyond. I looked over our conversation here and discovered that we have been pretty much on our own, this small handful of trekkers. And the tree line was somewhere behind us.

To those of you who have jusst tuned in and haven't been following us for awhile you are probably asking yourself "what in the heck are these guys talking about and what in the heck does this have to do with the life of Townsend Brown? I clicked on here to learn about HIM."

And Mikado, I noticed your interesting question at the end of your post.

You had said that you believed that "certain individuals come into this plane of existence with the ability to access the record at certain times when the conditions are right." I am one hundred percent with you on that. And I believe thats what Paul is saying too about Townsend Brown. I for one, find that intriguing. A physical link? Do you think he could have actually done that?

And for those of you who are new to this post, look around alot. You will find some interesting concepts to ponder. As Elizabeth would say, " The water is fine! Jump on in!"

And Elizabeth! We have gone on this long discussion trek and you haven't said a word recently! That is very unlike you! Are you just giving us room to reach some conclusions before you step in to stir us up again? I especially am interested in your comment on Mikados question on his last post. Mark C