MJ12 CONNECTIONS

A place to engage extended discussions of things that come up on the ttbrown.com website. Anything goes here, as long as it's somehow pertinent to the subject(s) at hand.
Mark Culpepper
The Dean
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Black "clean up operations"

Post by Mark Culpepper »

This whole discussion thread has been wonderful.

I got interested in a slight offshoot of the MJ12 Group discussion though when I looked over Ryan Woods flier for the "4th Annual UFO Crash Retreival Conference" and I realized that I was missing the main gist of the Conference, with my interest in Townsend Brown. The Conference actually is to investigate these crashes, so all of the sudden I realize that if our theory is proper and if I read everybody right ... perhaps there were "units" being tested by Townsend Browns "Group" .... which were occasionally crashing. Now I don't think they were the ONLY things going ooopps drats! out there, but I'll bet prototype Brown designs were a percentage of them. Just my personal opinion.

So it makes sense that there would be a "recovery system" and so Dr. Michael Sallas presentation on Friday night might indeed be very interesting. The schedule says of him " He will describe how a shadow military system has been developed within the conventional military where personel are secretly recruited and employed for "black projects" such as crash retreivals'

Thats what it says folks. honest.

Someone, was it Cook? called them a "ragtag PRIVATE army right after WWII. What could they be called now? this "shadow military system WITHIN the standard military.

And I wonder how Dr. Brown could seemingly have so much "draw" with the military and still not be in it? It all feels the same. Or is it just me? I think that what Paul may be developing here is a most interesting path through this very dark forest.

Mark C.
Martin Calloway
Junior Birdman
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total electrical failure

Post by Martin Calloway »

Thats what Chuck Yeager radioed the B29 bomber that had just let him go from its belly. He was in the rocket shaped experimental ship the X-1. It was his second flight after just the day before breaking the sound barrier. He hadn't splintered to pieces, as some said he was doomed to do then , so things were looking good until he reached for his ignition switch for his engine. He was clear of the B29 and falling like a bomb. He had 5,000 pounds of jet fuel on board, and none of it firing. "Hey, I've got total electrical failure" he barked cooly over the radio, but of course nobody heard him. Second switch! Nothing! still falling, nothing working.

Now, if on that day (October 27, 1947) the X-1 had buried itself in the desert floor do you think that pieces of that ship would have been available to the public? Even if it had gone off course and had gone down, with Chuck valiantly doing everything he could possibly do to save it and himself, do you think that you would ever have heard of that incident? Do you think that there wasn't a team standing by just for that possibility?

As it was, Chuck was able to walk away. He dumped his fuel and flew the damn thing down like an oversized glider. And he walked away, well, limped away but you know what they say.

So imagine what it might have been like occasionally for other men out there. Martin
Mikado14
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Re: Black "clean up operations"

Post by Mikado14 »

Mark Culpepper wrote: The Conference actually is to investigate these crashes, so all of the sudden I realize that if our theory is proper and if I read everybody right ... perhaps there were "units" being tested by Townsend Browns "Group" .... which were occasionally crashing. Now I don't think they were the ONLY things going ooopps drats! out there, but I'll bet prototype Brown designs were a percentage of them. Just my personal opinion.

Mark C.
Or how about in 1947 a captured Nazi saucer was being tested?

Just as plausible as everthing else. But then what was Dr. Brown doing over there?

Mikado
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy
Mikado14
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convention

Post by Mikado14 »

Here is a real stupid question because I can't seem to find the answer in the forums.

Actually, several questions.

I take that this convention is being hosted by the Woods, Father and Son. I understand that their specialty is the MJ12 documents and crashed UFO retrieval. For the love of me I cannot see what this has to do with Dr. Brown when there are so many other avenues that need to be explored. There are tells in other areas and not in this. Can anyone give a good definitive answer without scenarios?

Next question,

Still being a little cranially thick here I ask this. Why would Paul want to go to such a convention prior to a final book? Again, I can give a scenario as well as the next, what I want is a definitive answer.

Another question,

Does anyone else feel like a cow? There are times that I could swear I hear someone saying "get along little dogie". Does anyone else feel like they are being intentionally diverted into a diatribe that is not consistent with what the subject really was? Sort of like forgetting why you enterred the swamp syndrome?

I am going to stop now, I think I hear a cup of coffee calling my name.

Mikado
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy
Elizabeth Helen Drake
Sr. Research Asst.
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why would he?

Post by Elizabeth Helen Drake »

Now there is a very good question Mikado. Why would Paul present his material at the " 4th Annual UFO Crash Retrieval Conference?" I will not even attempt to answer for him. He may be up and back on line by Monday or Tuesday. Please ask again if he hasn't responded by then.

But I can give you some of my observations.

As discredited as many of these groups have been by various individuals and agencies they have kept a flame going for many years that was counter to what alot of people were fashioned to believe. These "Flying Saucer" devotees were seeing things that didn't make sense, seeing things with their own eyes, and then learning that they were ridiculed when they tried to report what they had seen. I suppose at some point you just have to come to the conclusion that SOMETHING is being with held from you. Whenever that kind of thing happens I guess its easy to form into groups with the same opinion. "We are seeing things in the sky, we are not nuts and why is this happening?"

So the flame remained. And the name of Townsend Brown, because of his groundbreaking advances in the disc shaped propusion systems was automatically linked with what many people stated they had seen in " Flying Saucers" Many researchers like Cook basically used his research as a launching point for their interest. For Bill Moore Dr. Browns work was a platform to leap off into even more unsubstantiated ideas. In any case, because of his research, because of NICAP, because of the mystery of his life .... Maybe Dr. Browns name was "marginalized" into that small group.

Your question of why there? is a good one. From my perspective . " Perhaps its where people have gathered enough of that odd information to finally understand that there is another explanation besides " aliens". And the search and the hunger for the truth remains. Why there? Because of the historical link perhaps.

What would be another place for Paul to announce his work on Townsend Brown? Perhaps it is appropriate even now to start talking about that.

What other avenues Mikado, do you feel need to be explored? I agree with you that there are many but I wondered particularly what you were thinking of.?

Do you feel that you have been lead somewhere, or the conversation has been lead somewhere that is NOT consistant with what the subject really was? Thats an interesting observation and I respect it. What in your opinion has been missed in this search?

Your observation about forgetting why you entered the swamp is EXACTLY why Paul has not spent much time at all with the subject that we have entered into when the MJ12 post was put up. It does lead you away from solid ground. All of the sudden you are worried about who said what to whom and everything gets foggy and misrepresented. Now you perhaps more clearly understand why Paul has called these subjects "gutters" when he has been trying to bowl a strike right down the middle.

I am not sure that I am answering your questions " without scenarios" because I am not entirely sure what you mean by that! help a little here?

You say is " What I want is a definitive answer" Well, lets start by the question " What is your question then?". Sorry but I am smiling here just realizing that I answered your question with a question. And around we go! Elizabeth
grinder
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well, here one

Post by grinder »

Hi Mikado,

What better connection to a UFO group than the story (As they wrote in his topic heading for the conference ) "Schatzkin will attempt to unravel some of the riddles embodied in the life of a man who demonstrated " flying saucers" for the military in the early 1950s and whose contribution to the field of UFO studies dates back to his role as the true founder of NICAP in 1956."

And maybe also its because you are not familiar with all the lore about that infamous "Pearl Harbor demonstration" that you would miss the connections that have made it so easy for the rest of us to catch.

And thats really another reason we are looking forward to hearing Pauls version of the "rest of the story" because he left us off when Dr. Brown walked out of the Navy in 1942. And when "Flying Saucers" were rampant in the press in the fifties, Townsend Brown has been proven to have been building them in his various labs. So the story has gotta be interesting, right?

Dr. Brown being the founder of NICAP is a fact that is universally recognized. ( Except for the people that didn't actually follow its founding all that closely)

So why should Paul announce his book findings there at the UFO convention? Because its an appropriate place, I suppose. Where else would there be more interest?

If there is such a place I hope it has a conference I could attend closer to home! grinder
grinder
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where in 1947

Post by grinder »

The one thing that Paul has been able to do with some consistancy is to tell us accurately where Dr. Brown was during certain periods of his life. So again the question, Where was he then in 1947? That would REALLY be interesting. grinder
Mikado14
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Re: why would he?

Post by Mikado14 »

Elizabeth Helen Drake wrote: What other avenues Mikado, do you feel need to be explored? I agree with you that there are many but I wondered particularly what you were thinking of.?
I have my.......visions, close but not a proper word. However, the time is not right and I will pursue those visions at my own risk and give a direct answer when the time is right. I will say this, what little I have uncovered leans more towards corporate manipulations....sort of a shell game.
Elizabeth Helen Drake wrote: Do you feel that you have been lead somewhere, or the conversation has been lead somewhere that is NOT consistant with what the subject really was? Thats an interesting observation and I respect it. What in your opinion has been missed in this search?
If the subject is to research Dr. Brown, I have found no clue, no bread crumb, not a morsel of anything other than he was involved in NICAP at the beginning to involve him with the MJ12 documents. and that is pretty indirect. Oh, there is a similarity those documents have with the Dr. and that is that they are both a controversy.

Elizabeth Helen Drake wrote: Your observation about forgetting why you entered the swamp is EXACTLY why Paul has not spent much time at all with the subject that we have entered into when the MJ12 post was put up. It does lead you away from solid ground. All of the sudden you are worried about who said what to whom and everything gets foggy and misrepresented. Now you perhaps more clearly understand why Paul has called these subjects "gutters" when he has been trying to bowl a strike right down the middle.
Hmmm, I have read that analogy (gutters) somewhere in here before. I agree, however, objectively, I don't have a good feeling about this conference and a lot of questions. But I suppose Paul knows what he is doing and as for I.....I'm a cynic and paranoid at times due to Pavlov, in other words, ignore the man behind the curtain.


Elizabeth Helen Drake wrote: I am not sure that I am answering your questions " without scenarios" because I am not entirely sure what you mean by that! help a little here?
Scenarios are "what if's". A what if gives no direction, only imagination, less than a hypothesis. Giving a hint or a clue is different, at least you have me blind folded, spinning me around but when I stop, you point me in the correct direction to move armed with a pin and a tail and headed for the donkey's ass and it is up to me to hit it.

Elizabeth Helen Drake wrote: You say is " What I want is a definitive answer" Well, lets start by the question " What is your question then?". Sorry but I am smiling here just realizing that I answered your question with a question. And around we go! Elizabeth
I'll give you a sample of what I mean by a definitive answer by using my own questions: ( The following answers are for illustrative purposes only )

1. What connection do the MJ12 documents and Dr. Brown have in common?

Dr. Brown is mentioned in one of the papers.

2. Why is Paul presenting this evidence at a conference on the MJ 12 papers and crashed UFO's?

Paul has evidence that one of the crashed UFO's was really of terrestrial origin and that Dr. Brown was involved.

3. Does anyone else feel like they are being led on the topic of Dr. Brown to be misled down a wrong path?

Yes

Now my dear Elizabeth, that is what I mean. Guess I won't be getting those answers any time too soon. I just suppose that what I am doing is just a rant but for the past few days, every time I .......think....on this topic, those little hairs stand up on the back of my neck and something about this "topic" doesn't feel right. (I do have a hypothesis but then, you probably already knew that, right my dear?)

Mikado
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy
Mikado14
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Re: why would he?

Post by Mikado14 »

Elizabeth Helen Drake wrote: What other avenues Mikado, do you feel need to be explored? I agree with you that there are many but I wondered particularly what you were thinking of.?

Do you feel that you have been lead somewhere, or the conversation has been lead somewhere that is NOT consistant with what the subject really was? Thats an interesting observation and I respect it. What in your opinion has been missed in this search?
I really like the way you come back, did I ever tell you that?

Ok, my dear, you asked once about the direct Mikado, how about I give you some direct questions of which I know the answers.

Did Dr. Brown file any patents with Vega or their subsequent owners and what were those numbers? Were they ever defended in court?

Did Dr. Brown file any patents with Martin Decker and what were those numbers? Were they ever defended in court?

The answers can be found at West Law under the proper search criteria. Oh, and they are Federal court records.

Mikado

PS One of the dates on a patent is around the time of NICAP being formed.
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy
Mikado14
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Connections

Post by Mikado14 »

Ok Elizabeth, you got me on a roll.

Speaking of connections and how Dr. Brown and the MJ12 thing are connected, I'll give you one that is a little more direct.

What does Townsend Brown and the seven Mercury astronauts have in common?

Or,

What does Townsend Brown and President John Kennedy have in common?


Mikado
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy
Trickfox
The Magician
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October COSMIC Surprize

Post by Trickfox »

If we keep talking like this someone is bound to ask questions. So what my dear friends do you you all think of our little "parallel dimension" .

Don't you get the impression that more continuing proof of something is comming out here soon folks? Stay tune for Paul's speech at the November 11 convention my friends.

Those of you who want to understand will do so without having submitted themselves to any dogma. The curious will learn what they want and when they need to know it. Just read the whole book, and then thread through all the interesting posts at your leasure. We welcome your questions, but be prepared for answers which are really just more questions. We call it the Rabbit hole which leads to singularity.

So please, dear guest reader, give us an opinion here!!

Trickfox
The psychopropulsier (as pointed out in the book The Good-bye man by Linda Brown and Jan Lofton) is a Quantum entanglement project under development using Quantum Junctions. Join us at http://www.Peeteelab.com
Elizabeth Helen Drake
Sr. Research Asst.
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fascinating thoughts

Post by Elizabeth Helen Drake »

Trickfox and Mikado,

Difficult to stay away from such interesting questions. Even if they just result in more questions!

Mikado. You said something is warning you about this conference. And I can sort of see where you are coming from here. (I hope)

Paul must know that he is going to be exposing his work to a variety of interpretations and of course if his conclusions cross others, then , well its going to turn into an "intellectual food fight". And some of these people have a history of not being very cordial with each other. It might be that Paul possibly could be treated with more distain than courtesy in some situations.

I have thought about that and sometimes it has even worried me. But you know what? Paul has the fortitude to stand up against anything that might come in his direction . He has the mental ability to understand what the situation actually is and turn it to his advantage. We haven't got a shrinking violet here.

But I understand your concern. Are we on the same level, or was there some other concern? Elizabeth
Mikado14
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Re: where in 1947

Post by Mikado14 »

grinder wrote:The one thing that Paul has been able to do with some consistancy is to tell us accurately where Dr. Brown was during certain periods of his life. So again the question, Where was he then in 1947? That would REALLY be interesting. grinder
I have a question, what was Dr. Brown doing in 1958 in North Carolina and how is it connected to Decker?

Mikado
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy
Elizabeth Helen Drake
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intuitive thought

Post by Elizabeth Helen Drake »

Mikado,

Those "visions" (for lack of a better word) must be very interesting. Someday I hope we can talk about them in more detail and not quite as publically. Visions or strong intuitions? I have long ago stopped questioning them in my life. I just sort of say " OK ... I'll look there then"

So when you ask what Dr. Brown was doing in North Carolina and what connection it may have had with Martin Decker, what you are actually saying is that you feel that you have found a link?

Of course my response to you has to be (even if I had information that matched) my answer would have to be "Please speak to Paul" .

As to the space program and the Kennedy question that you had, I am supposing that the same situation exists and even if I had the answer to see if it would match yours .... its really not my place to speak up.

You said " shell game" on a corporate level. A master, global, corporate shell game. Absolutely! But as mind boggling as that might be I believe that it was just one situation and as you have already said, this is a multifaceted operation! My opinion is that certainly things must have operated on several levels WHEREVER Dr. Brown was.

Wherever this path leads us I thank you for your enthusiasm!

And I agree with you that it is hard to see the connections between the MJ12 papers and Dr. Brown. Thats why I think its going to be an interesting experience, because I don't know yet what connections there might be. Other than the personage of William Moore, which is probably enough! Elizabeth
Elizabeth Helen Drake
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something in common

Post by Elizabeth Helen Drake »

Pausing for a moment before I call it a night. I realized that I had just said something to you Mikado that I needed to expand upon, before I forgot about it. Again I can't get too far into it without Pauls approval on the release of the information but I do want to say something. Regarding William Moore, The MJ12 papers ....... and William Moore and an elderly Townsend Brown. There IS a link there and perhaps someday it can be brought to the surface. Actually it is already out in print but no one would know where to look and what connections could be made. They have all been blindfolded, spun around and then told to pin the tail on the donkey as you said. If I could I would be able to point a similarity out to you, but I don't want to get ahead of Pauls story and I am sure that someday it will all be a great game and the tail will get pinned where it belongs. Going to be interesting! Goodnight then! Elizabeth
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