"lifters" around the world

[Chris Knight]

Victoria,

You linked to a good point there. In my earlier post concerning the difference between Townsend's definition of the B-B Effect and the lifter groups, I stuck to the literal differences.

I didn't mean to imply that asymmetric electrodes and other design considerations are not important, or don't effect aspects of the B-B Effect, which is what I might have come across as implying.

[Victoria Steele]

If I made a correct statement Andrew it was really just based on my observation that the big "disc" that I have seen Dr. Brown holding up I think on your earlier site and in some other places ( I am sure they got that photo from you in the first place, doncha just love it .....) I was just making the comment that it in no way resembled what the lifter people have. And there has to be something else here going on that we are just not quite aware of yet.

And then there is the lower voltage stuff. Where others who followed Dr. Brown consistantly used lower voltages than he suggested and then tried to fault his work and said it wouldn't work. Well, duh, dummies. Read the operating instructions! I just intuitively think that there is something ODD that happens when you get into those very high voltages.

Why would he surround himself with high voltage experts. And I am still keeping my notes about the paperclip scientists from Germany. True, most of them found their way into rocketry. But how about the fellow that ended up at the University of Pa ... where in Germany they had a gnerator that could pump 2 MILLION volts/ Remember that. Have to dig in my notes for that one. Lindab got in on that conversation so maybe she can point you in the direction to where my thoughts are going. Oh but , probably too late. exploded already.

Still picking up the pieces, just had some interesting thoughts but I will get back when I can figure how to glue them together. Victoria

[Mikado14]

Everyone talks about the cost of building a disc. I believe it might have been Greggvizza or maybe Gewis. Well here it is boys and girls.

Go to the dollar store and buy your self some disc shaped wind chimes. The largest should be about 3 inches and the smallest should be about 3/4 inch. They are usually hanging from an oriental type building but I am sure you get the idea. Lexan should work as a cheap dielectric and last but not least here is your supply:

http://cgi.ebay.com/100kV-DC-high-volta ... dZViewItem

A savvy person should be able to do something with this.

If you can't figure out how to build the maypole and get the charge to the disc then I suppose you shouldn't build it.

Mikado

[twigsnapper]

It just takes being a little hands on smart.

Tell you a little story.

An embarassment actually to a NASA program. Problem having the right technology for the pens in space. Took thousands and thousands of dollars to assure that a proper ink pen could be operated in the low gravity of an orbit. Not an easy chore. Finally got it done. Hundred of thousands of dollars later.

What did the Russians do? sent up pencils.

Ah, the smell of ozone in the morning. Careful out there guys. Not a toy.

You can't do it alone though. You need scientists who understand the situation, math experts to set up the proper specs with the engineers. Machinists to turn those funny lines and specs into reality. A supply line that is totally cloaked and "friends in very high places" to keep things that way. You need a place, the talent, the money and a whole lot of dedication. And at the far end you have to get someone bold enough to say ...."OK, lets see what this baby can do" twigsnapper

[greggvizza]

K Table: http://www.vfr.net/~rpike/math.txt

Wonder what is the more important dielectric factor for a successful disk: dielectric constant, or puncture voltage? Mylar has the highest breakdown voltage by a wide margin, but Barium Titanate has the highest K factor. Decisions decisions.

Alice votes for Barium Titanate http://www.halexandria.org/dward147.htm - but I don’t think she realizes how difficult it is to work with. Mylar seems like the beginners choice. Maybe somewhere down the road Barium Titanate can be tried, after boardom sets in with the mylar dielectric.

From what I have read about operating voltage, if 250kV ends up being a minimum threshold of sorts, then something like the following may be in order. http://www.glassmanhv.com/ByWattage/pk_series.shtml

GV


Everyone knows that real alien flying saucers are made of Barium Titanate.

[Mikado14]

The Pittsburgh boy is still here, haven't heard from you lately,

.
From what I have read about operating voltage, if 250kV ends up being a minimum threshold of sorts, then something like the following may be in order. http://www.glassmanhv.com/ByWattage/pk_series.shtml

.

There is a relationship here. If you look at the supply on ebay you will see that you can get that up to 180kv which should be more than enough to get a small disc to chase the maypole and if it doesn't you still will be able to experiment and tweek.

Orville and Wilbur started small.

You can't do it alone though. .

Do what Sir? Can you be more specific?

You need scientists who understand the situation, math experts to set up the proper specs with the engineers. Machinists to turn those funny lines and specs into reality. A supply line that is totally cloaked and "friends in very high places" to keep things that way. You need a place, the talent, the money and a whole lot of dedication. And at the far end you have to get someone bold enough to say ...."OK, lets see what this baby can do" .

Mr. Twigsnapper, you talk here as an individual who has seen first hand what is required. The question is, are we talking a ship, the argonaut or perhaps even a combination of both. Let's see: "You need scientists who understand the situation" I believe we can assign a name or names to that statement; "math experts to set up the proper specs with the engineers" Pretty much the same thing here as well but now; "Machinists to turn those funny lines and specs into reality" Now this one here is not minimal for there were many "puzzle pieces" built for assembly elsewhere.

So, if your looking for someone to take that baby for a spin, I volunteer.

Mikado

[Elizabeth Helen Drake]

Gregg,

Your link to the site of Dan Sewell Ward was interesting. How did that happen to come to your attention? Do you know anything of his writings? Odd that Alice would be mentioned, again.

Comments on that site anyone? Elizabeth

[Paul S.]

What did the Russians do? sent up pencils.

Funny, I must be a Russian (well, I am, actually, if you wanna go back a few generations...) because as I was reading about the expensive effort to get pens to work in space, I was thinking, "why not pencils?"

You can't do it alone though. You need scientists who understand the situation, math experts to set up the proper specs with the engineers. Machinists to turn those funny lines and specs into reality.

A mathematician and a machinist? You don't say? Now... isn't that... an interesting combination...<g>

A supply line that is totally cloaked and "friends in very high places" to keep things that way.

And therein lies the tale, no?

--PS

[twigsnapper]

Therein lies the story, past ,and as Mikado has pointed out, present possibilities.

And as your story of the past experiences proceed perhaps Mikado you will see certain similarities and dangers in the present situation. They say a wise person or organization learns from its past.

twigsnapper

[Mikado14]

What did the Russians do? sent up pencils.

Funny, I must be a Russian (well, I am, actually, if you wanna go back a few generations...) because as I was reading about the expensive effort to get pens to work in space, I was thinking, "why not pencils?"

Pens are used by those that believe they are perfect and pencils are used by those that know they are not.

Just a thought.....not that I don't use both.

Mikado

[twigsnapper]

Aye, thats whats going to get us into trouble with the Russians someday Mikado. Exactly the pencil/pen thing. They know how much they can spend and what would work. ( considering that they have next to nothing they are pressured to make do. We operate as if we can just print more money if its needed <g>. Its been the same since Washington passed out paper money to pay for his troups at Valley Forge. Most of those creditors never got paid then either and Washington today operates now much the same way. But you see .... we have this grand cause! Problem is that we are losing sight of what it is. twigsnapper

[kevin.b]

I have always preferred the pencil, especially the one with the eraser at the end, then if you make a mistake, you can just rub it out.

http://inventors.about.com/library/inventors/blpen.htm
http://www.vintagepens.com/catill_dip_pens_etc.shtml
kevin

[Mikado14]

But you see .... we have this grand cause! Problem is that we are losing sight of what it is. twigsnapper

I can take that three ways, you are talking about the book here and you feel we are diverging or, it is a political thing or, something only a twigsnapper could know.


And in regard to your title, "Re: accepting limitations", do I have to? <g>

Just like you, how would your generation say it?, I rather enjoy pulling my chesnuts out of the fire and build a new plane to fly out of the desert.

Mikado

[twigsnapper]

Good company to be in. The kinds of fellows who can do that. speaking of chestnuts and fires and flying out of the desert etc. Whats the old expression? Failure is not an option?

Don't mind me too much today. Just thinking of of the dreams that this country represents. It just would be good to see more of them coming true. No deep thoughts there. Just a quiet reflection before the fireworks.

Hope everyone is well. twigsnapper

[Bulwark]

Wonder what is the more important dielectric factor for a successful disk: dielectric constant, or puncture voltage? Mylar has the highest breakdown voltage by a wide margin, but Barium Titanate has the highest K factor. Decisions decisions.

I am really not that qualified to answer your question whether you were or were not asking but I thought since we are a forum for ideas, facts or just plain talk you wouldn't mind my throwing this on your screen.

Why not both?