Chapter 37 - Missing Fingers and Reliable Sources

Use this section for any discussion specifically related to the chapters posted online of the unfolding biography, "Defying Gravity: The Parallel Universe of T. Townsend Brown
Victoria Steele
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Old as opposed to ?

Post by Victoria Steele »

Grinder,

What do you mean by OLD Holloman. You say that Mr. Twigsnapper said that but I can find no real reference to that? is that just something you thought you saw? because I can't find the direct reference to it.

Not that I am going to question that " quantum information jump". Hey, its out there, lets look into it. Was there such a thing as an OLD base there?

I know nothing about Holloman except theres an interesting town there with a pretty park. And it sits at the base of some beautiful mountains which used to be be the Apache Indian stronghold for the whole southwest.

So I guess maybe I should look into it more? Victoria
Mikado14
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Re: Old as opposed to ?

Post by Mikado14 »

Victoria Steele wrote:Grinder,

What do you mean by OLD Holloman. You say that Mr. Twigsnapper said that but I can find no real reference to that? is that just something you thought you saw? because I can't find the direct reference to it.
Redheads.....ya just gotta luv em!

twigsnapper wrote:But with her mind I find it highly unlikely that she would not know about those sightings near the old Holloman base. Sometimes you should talk with her about that. It should make " spirited conversation". twigsnapper
There is the actual quote my dear, the top of the previous page.

Now it is up to 3 dances!

Mikado
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy
Victoria Steele
Mysterious Redhead
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Joined: Mon Feb 20, 2006 7:06 am

yeah, blind too

Post by Victoria Steele »

Yeah, red headed and apparently blind too. I looked and looked but didn't see that. Which to my way of reading these odd cosmic ha has ... there is something there I should really see, I guess. Thanks Mikado for keeping track of the dances! Victoria
Victoria Steele
Mysterious Redhead
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what does this mean?

Post by Victoria Steele »

While looking for Old Holloman base I found this, What the heck does this mean, really? Someone?

http://paces.geo.utep.edu/grav_base_sta ... XICO.shtml

Absolute, Absolute Excenter, Pendulum and/or Calibration Base Stations
ALAMOGORDO A: Bldg. 1256, Room 10, Holloman AFB, NM (Absolute/National)
ALAMOGORDO C 306: White Sands Airport, Alamogordo, NM (National)
ALAMOGORDO CALIB 111: US 82 at La Luz Road, Alamogordo, NM (Calibration/Nat'l)
ALAMOGORDO J: White Sands Airport, Alamogordo, NM (National)
ALBUQERQUE 5310 WEST: Int'l. Airport old terminal, Albuqerque, NM (National)
ALBUQERQUE L-1: Int'l. Airport old terminal, Albuqerque, NM (Base)
GALLUP B: Gallup Post Office loading dock, Gallup, NM (Base)
GALLUP CA: UNM Gallup Campus parking lot, Gallup, NM (Base)
GALLUP RRSP: Archeology Lab, Red Rock State Park, Church Rock, NM (Abs. Excenter)
HOLLOMAN AB: Bldg. 1256, Room 9, Holloman AFB, NM (Absolute)
HOLLOMAN ECC: Bldg. 1256, exterior, Holloman AFB, NM (Abs. Excenter)
WHITE SANDS MR: Bldg. 1528 room 9, White Sands, NM (Absolute)

What does that all mean? Victoria
Mikado14
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Re: what does this mean?

Post by Mikado14 »

Victoria Steele wrote:While looking for Old Holloman base I found this, What the heck does this mean, really? Someone?

http://paces.geo.utep.edu/grav_base_sta ... XICO.shtml

Absolute, Absolute Excenter, Pendulum and/or Calibration Base Stations
ALAMOGORDO A: Bldg. 1256, Room 10, Holloman AFB, NM (Absolute/National)
ALAMOGORDO C 306: White Sands Airport, Alamogordo, NM (National)
ALAMOGORDO CALIB 111: US 82 at La Luz Road, Alamogordo, NM (Calibration/Nat'l)
ALAMOGORDO J: White Sands Airport, Alamogordo, NM (National)
ALBUQERQUE 5310 WEST: Int'l. Airport old terminal, Albuqerque, NM (National)
ALBUQERQUE L-1: Int'l. Airport old terminal, Albuqerque, NM (Base)
GALLUP B: Gallup Post Office loading dock, Gallup, NM (Base)
GALLUP CA: UNM Gallup Campus parking lot, Gallup, NM (Base)
GALLUP RRSP: Archeology Lab, Red Rock State Park, Church Rock, NM (Abs. Excenter)
HOLLOMAN AB: Bldg. 1256, Room 9, Holloman AFB, NM (Absolute)
HOLLOMAN ECC: Bldg. 1256, exterior, Holloman AFB, NM (Abs. Excenter)
WHITE SANDS MR: Bldg. 1528 room 9, White Sands, NM (Absolute)

What does that all mean? Victoria
Those are locations of stations that monitor gravity in the lithosphere. This is used for locating minerals etc. Looking for water, but I would bet that the resident Geologist here could elaborate much more than I.

Mikado
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy
Elizabeth Helen Drake
Sr. Research Asst.
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resident rock hounds

Post by Elizabeth Helen Drake »

Hi Mikado,

I know that our Andrew Bolland is away from the keys for just a bit on a well deserved vacation so if there is any one else out there who might hazard a quess as to why all this just happens to be in an area that Mr. Twigsnapper just mentioned somehow as being important. As we all have rightly figured by now he doesn't say things unless they are important. Whether we pick up on what he has said is really, I guess, up to us.

Forgive me all but I really know nothing about these " green fireballs" which have been mentioned. I studied up a little on " foo fighters" during World War Two ..... but never these green thingys. So if there is anyone out there with some sort of experience researching this particular subject I would really appreciate hearing from you.

The unusual color seems to be, in some intstances, related to some sort of copper element .... which is not normal, I understand, in meteors.

And also the thing that seems interesting to me is that during a certain time frame these " green fireballs" seemed to be noticed in a very narrow area ... encompassing Alamadordo, and parts slightly north. anybody have a theory? Thanks in advance, Elizabeth
Elizabeth Helen Drake
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exactly what he said

Post by Elizabeth Helen Drake »

This is one section of what Mr. Twigsnapper actually said:

"Maybe she might have been interested in the fact that he founded NICAP. Maybe the various sightings caught her attention. Maybe it was the mention of "green fireballs" that sparked her interest in what she does now. Of course the first real notice of them started happening in November of 1948. Fascinating subject, those things. Caused quite an uproar in December of 1948 .............. of course before Lisas time really "

Now when he says " Maybe she might have been interested in the fact that he founded NICAP"

Thats sure an interesting lead. WHY WOULD Dr. BROWN FOUND AN ORGANIZATION WHICH WOULD REPORT SIGHTINGS OF VARIOUS UFOS." All of us know him well enough now I think to realize that he didn't do anything on a whim. Why would establishing an organization like that be important to him? Elizabeth
Mikado14
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Re: exactly what he said

Post by Mikado14 »

Elizabeth Helen Drake wrote:This is one section of what Mr. Twigsnapper actually said:

"Maybe she might have been interested in the fact that he founded NICAP. Maybe the various sightings caught her attention. Maybe it was the mention of "green fireballs" that sparked her interest in what she does now. Of course the first real notice of them started happening in November of 1948. Fascinating subject, those things. Caused quite an uproar in December of 1948 .............. of course before Lisas time really "

Now when he says " Maybe she might have been interested in the fact that he founded NICAP"

Thats sure an interesting lead. WHY WOULD Dr. BROWN FOUND AN ORGANIZATION WHICH WOULD REPORT SIGHTINGS OF VARIOUS UFOS." All of us know him well enough now I think to realize that he didn't do anything on a whim. Why would establishing an organization like that be important to him? Elizabeth
To keep track of sightings that Joe Public made on a first hand basis looking for evidence of that which did not make it into Caroline hands.

Mikado
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy
Elizabeth Helen Drake
Sr. Research Asst.
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recovery groups?

Post by Elizabeth Helen Drake »

So, Mikado .... what you are saying is that he was using it as an information center for things that they MISSED?

Which is an interesting thought. I am assuming if they were testing units that they themselves would know if they had a problem and would already have recovery teams nearby or on the way. I have always wondered why it was that so many of those reported UFO "crashes" had what looked like military teams on the spot almost immediately. ( Of course I am thinking about the Aztec crash where there apparently was a team of students from the U of Pa ... but thats another story entirely)

With the communications system that they had obviously in operation wouldn't it be easy to co ordinate recovery teams? But is this green thing falling in a blaze one of theres? Or something else? Of course all the hype that has been written so far always leans toward the hidden alien thing, but we should all know by now that those stories COULD HAVE BEEN disinformtion ploys.

I say COULD HAVE BEEN because the thought strikes me, if the Caroline Group was this advanced and some other form of life happened to drop out of the skys ( mayday, mayday, mayday) wouldn't the Caroline Group be the first to know of it? In fact .... who else would be on the same gravitational radio frequency?

Just asking the questions. Have no answers here, trust me. Elizabeth
Mikado14
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Re: recovery groups?

Post by Mikado14 »

Elizabeth Helen Drake wrote:So, Mikado .... what you are saying is that he was using it as an information center for things that they MISSED?

Which is an interesting thought. I am assuming if they were testing units that they themselves would know if they had a problem and would already have recovery teams nearby or on the way. I have always wondered why it was that so many of those reported UFO "crashes" had what looked like military teams on the spot almost immediately. ( Of course I am thinking about the Aztec crash where there apparently was a team of students from the U of Pa ... but thats another story entirely)

With the communications system that they had obviously in operation wouldn't it be easy to co ordinate recovery teams? But is this green thing falling in a blaze one of theres? Or something else? Of course all the hype that has been written so far always leans toward the hidden alien thing, but we should all know by now that those stories COULD HAVE BEEN disinformtion ploys.

I say COULD HAVE BEEN because the thought strikes me, if the Caroline Group was this advanced and some other form of life happened to drop out of the skys ( mayday, mayday, mayday) wouldn't the Caroline Group be the first to know of it? In fact .... who else would be on the same gravitational radio frequency?

Just asking the questions. Have no answers here, trust me. Elizabeth
Which takes us back to the mid 50's, Disney Studios, Holloman Air Base, photographic evidence and a meeting with aliens. Of course this was cancelled but the question is ......Why would they go to all that trouble and then not do anything? I have my theories......do you?

Mikado
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy
grinder
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mayday, mayday

Post by grinder »

What you say Elizabeth, makes alot of sense. You too Mikado.

You know , people keep saying that they believe in UFOs ..... ( latest public poll right now I think is that 78% of Americans believe that there is intelligent life ( other than us) in the Universe) and yet for some reason our military hasn't been able to come up with actual contact.

Maybe its because they were not the people who picked up the phone when someone yelled " Mayday"

Think on that for awhile folks cause I am really headed for a dark rabbit hole here. And if this is the case than I can REALLY understand why the Caroline Group has kept such a painstakingly low profile. What if they have already made contact? What does that mean?

grinder
Mark Culpepper
The Dean
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onion skin technology

Post by Mark Culpepper »

Interesting thread. Something I have thought alot about ever since being introduced to the idea of " The Caroline Group".

First of all its been my impression that there is MUCH going on here that is beyond our understanding. Its not just a few things. Its ALOT of things. Like standing at the edge of a new world of partical physics at CERN and wondering what will be found. NO IDEA really of the things awaiting us.

And I think thats what this story of Townsend Brown represents. We are standing here on the edge folks of a new understanding but able at the same time, through Pauls efforts, to get a look at someone who saw all of this before us.

Its what he decided to do about that information that is the most interesting to me. It looks like Townsend Brown and the Caroline Group in general went into sort of a " holding pattern"

I know that the phrase " we just were not ready for the information" is boring and overused and kind of stupid and there is going to always be some jerk out there so full of himself that he is going to say ..." Oh I can handle it!" but the truth is ..... probably not.

We were given the Atomic Bomb. through alot of hard work and sacrifice and we were in the middle of a war .... and we had the bomb suddenly .... so what was the decision. We used it .... of course. Its the only thing that made sense to us at the time. No other path was chosen.

But obviously there was an element of the Caroline Group that was hoping for another choice to be made. It wasn't. Just like Paul said ... well we all know how that peace effort and the plea to explode the bomb over a non populated area worked out. It was rejected.

So now we might have a situation where other technology " drops " out of the sky and the Caroline Group would have been the first with a hands on hello. What to do then, knowing the past experience? MarkC
Mikado14
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Re: onion skin technology

Post by Mikado14 »

Mark Culpepper wrote: I know that the phrase " we just were not ready for the information" is boring and overused and kind of stupid and there is going to always be some jerk out there so full of himself that he is going to say ..." Oh I can handle it!" but the truth is ..... probably not.
Don't totally agree with that, but I bet you could handle it and a few others on this forum. Your minds are open yet even here on the forum, I see a few that are closed.
Mark Culpepper wrote: We were given the Atomic Bomb. through alot of hard work and sacrifice and we were in the middle of a war .... and we had the bomb suddenly .... so what was the decision. We used it .... of course. Its the only thing that made sense to us at the time. No other path was chosen.

But obviously there was an element of the Caroline Group that was hoping for another choice to be made. It wasn't. Just like Paul said ... well we all know how that peace effort and the plea to explode the bomb over a non populated area worked out. It was rejected.
Don't agree with that one. My Father and Uncle were in the South Pacific. I believe many lives were saved. I further believe that a demonstration bomb would have exhausted what limited material they had at the time. Do you honestly believe that the mindset of the Japanese would have capitulated? Even after the first one was used on their home soil they didn't surrender, it took two. Some people need to have their nose bloodied so that they understand.

Why else would the Group have recruited a "Centurion"? Sometimes it is a necessary evil for not everyone wants peace or should I say individual peace and freedom and allow others the same. Some want to control and dominate.....kinda like what is happening now. Your constitution is a laugh, it is all political agenda (yes Elizabeth, I do use that word <g>).

I'll stop before I make enemies but realize, it is only my view and believe it or not, I do love the people of this forum for it is refreshing.

Mikado
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy
grinder
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agree too

Post by grinder »

Oh, I agree with you Mikado. In many ways I think that the argument for the dropping of the bomb being necessary to stop the war and save lives , on both sides.

But you must admit that the argument for the target being a couple of non military cities was one based for the largest terror punch that could be had at the time. It worked. However. Would other targets have worked as well? Its a question that will never be answered.

I can also see that apparently the Caroline "Group had thoughts about doing it differently ( if you can take Mr. Shanks actions as the truth, and I have no reason to doubt Pauls sources here) The best minds at the time sat down and considered all the perameters and came up with those two cities and those two bombs.

Its a done thing. And the war was over . Sort of a classic ... the end justifies the means.

And the United States stayed " above ground". And I agree that at that point in time perhaps that was the action that was the most needed.

My point still is. Faced with that sort of situation again, and given even more powerful weapons, will we look at other options? or will our reactions be the same? History is made by such decisions. Perhaps being the toughest centurion would be what would be needed.

I have often wondered what the world would have been like if every single white man who set foot on the new world was summarily killed. Each and every one with no witnesses surviving. A different world surely. And looking at the history that befell the Indians, wouldn't they have been justified? grinder
Victoria Steele
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Centurians?

Post by Victoria Steele »

Oh, grinder. You are one complicated man. If I read you right just then. What are you suggesting? Is it what I am thinking? You used the word Centurian and of course all of us think of Morgan when you do that and we all remember I think that was the only question that was asked of him by Stephenson " something like " If a gun was put to your head, would you kill to survive?" His response was the classic " Whatever it takes to stay above ground"

Now this gets spooky.

THEN you mention the white men landing on the shores of native American territory and you make the point that perhaps each one of them should have been killed. (Without mercy apparently and with no witnesses.) And suddenly I am seeing you draw a parallel between Morgan? ........ and maybe his role? against who grinder? Someone that would set foot for the first time on earth?

If I am reading you right that sure puts a new complexion on the character of the Caroline Group. Is that what you meant? Or is my imagination running away with itself? Victoria
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