Chapter 37 - Missing Fingers and Reliable Sources

Use this section for any discussion specifically related to the chapters posted online of the unfolding biography, "Defying Gravity: The Parallel Universe of T. Townsend Brown
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Paul S.
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Chapter 37 - Missing Fingers and Reliable Sources

Post by Paul S. »

Paul Schatzkin
aka "The Perfesser"
"At some point we have to deal with the facts, not what we want to believe is true." -- Jack Bauer
Elizabeth Helen Drake
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Victorias place

Post by Elizabeth Helen Drake »

Paul,

I am reserving Victorias place here for her since she is on vacation!

And so what might she say? Well, I'll leave that to her because who knows really. I just know that now your readers have a better grasp on how very difficult this trail has been for you Paul and I have this comment. I don't think its going to get any easier. Both for you to write and your readers to comprehend.

Elizabeth
Mark Culpepper
The Dean
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trying to understand

Post by Mark Culpepper »

Paul,

I am trying to understand . What exactly is it that you are complaining about here?

When your source said "I can't tell you" You reacted like a little kid , with the resulting pout. You wanted to know WHO it was that was asking ... and that was the answer. "I can't tell you"

"Then I don't know how to come up with any questions" you said .........you "sighed with poorly concealed exasperation"..... you wrote, and I certainly agree with you. Poorly, poorly concealed.

I hardly know what to say to you!

I always look forward to giving you high marks but you certainly missed the boat in content here (though the rest of the chapter is fascinating. You might reread it carefully. Just what is it that makes your chapter so interesting? Is it all about you? Or the information that your "dubious" sources have laid at your feet?)

I have a pretty good idea (I may be wrong, granted.) Who your primary source is. He has proven to me beyond a shadow of a doubt that he knows of which he speaks. He told me things that I would NEVER have known, headed me off in directions to find clues that have opened doors I didn't even know this information or this man existed before. But everything he has told me I have proven to my satisfaction.. AND YET EVEN WITH A MUCH LONGER ASSOCIATION WITH THIS MAN .........wait , trying to gather my words so that you don't misread me .........

So, what you are telling me is ..... when a man like that tells you something ..... you are NOT going to accept that information because it comes from a person YOU have never met? What kind of little stinking powerplay is that?

I don't mean to insult you. But do you see what you have done here? And then posted it? So that all the world can see that you have no faith at all in your primary source? I would be surprised if he continues to deal with you.

Mark C.
Elizabeth Helen Drake
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my impression

Post by Elizabeth Helen Drake »

Mark,

I can tell that you make a good friend. And I can also tell that you are already protective of your relationship with Mr. Twigsnapper. That said, I think that , once you look over your last message you may admit to being a little heated in your defense of the gentleman. You do not name him particularly but anyone who has kept up with this forum would know immediately know who you were talking about

I know that Paul was not at all trying to take anything away from the regard that he holds for Mr. Twignapper. (and anyone else who has helped him "put two and two together" in this project. I have been priveleged to watch him at work and I know he did not mean it the way that you seemed to think his words implied.)

Paul was just trying to explain to all of us how twisted this trail is and how totally unique his situation has been.

So, are ya still mad? And as you mentioned maybe its more important to add the question ... Is Mr. Twigsnapper at all upset? Elizabeth
Gabriel
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Information

Post by Gabriel »

Paul,
I think that sometimes we can become frustrated when we do not have everything we want in front of us. I know as I have watched this project grow and more information concerning Dr. Brown arises I sometimes have wanted to know the whole of everything at once about him and his world, yet I have not taken into consideration that if you do not focus on each piece of the puzzle but rather want to look at the whole puzzle at once you miss the present moment. It is like running through the Smithsonian National art gallary with only an hour to spare in order to be able to see everything at once before that hour is up. In the end you really end up not seeing anything. I can sympathize for you Paul as this book is not about your ordinary scientist or movie star or billionare industrialist. One can not be afraid of becoming a failiure because you can not prove each and every source just becasue you can't see them all. I mean come on, the media tells us in my humble opnion over 90% lies to Joe public and Joe public accepts everything that comes down through the channel with out quetioning anything. Albit a choice between CNN or Fox. The credability comes from you Paul writing this book so that others will come along and take what Dr. Brown had and use it for the betterment of the world. I understand in journalism one has to be careful that the sources you have are not lies but I mean look at your sources, just becasue you can't have a direct link to them does not mean they are made up. The difficulty is wading thorugh disinformation and the truth. Like Twig said its like living in a hut you only know what you need to know for that moment in time. Otherwise you get too many hands in the kitchen and the food doesn't turn out right. There is a bit of effort that everyone must give, and share there parts or puzzle pieces with others when the time is right. Our minds are created to grasp universals through particulars. In other words our minds have to work step by step to grasp the whole. It is truly frustrating at times. I think in my humble opinion Paul that now is the time to stop for a moment and reflect on what you have been given despite the difficulties involved with finding information on Dr. Brown during a time period that the info runs a bit dry. Nevertheless always keep the goal in mind that you are the map maker who will give the map to the many people in the world who will read this book and be able to dig deeper and add more to the puzzle. Your credibilty is Not at stake rather the bigger burden for you is that mankind will look to you to open the door to the world of Dr. Brown. Keep diging and you will find the treasure, as you already have the map before you. Gabe.
twigsnapper
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new age

Post by twigsnapper »

Paul,

It is my considered opinion that you probably have MOST of what you will need to complete this particular book. Notice that I say, this particular book, because as others have mentioned to you, (particularly your two lulus), this project is as a living and breathing thing. There is no stuffing dead pages between the binders. Not actually. But since a book needs to be written, you will accomplish that. And the pages will all form up and lay flat.

The spirit of the thing however, the moving force though will continue onward, growing , searching, developing and changing. And the people who respond to you in this will continue.... on their special paths. I see it in Mark and I have seen it in others through the years.

Thats the only bad thing about being my age. You know you won't be around to see some of these flowers unfold fully, ah, but does it really matter.?I know what they are. Twigsnapper
Paul S.
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The Parallel Universe of Swiss Cheese

Post by Paul S. »

twigsnapper wrote:It is my considered opinion that you probably have MOST of what you will need to complete this particular book.
I have been reluctant to chime in here because I really do think I know when I've whined enough about the dastardly hand that fate has dealt me. However...

Mr T, you comment is probably true in the final analysis. However, what I keep running up against, what I think this chapter reflects, is the difference between "having most of what I need" -v- "making the most of what I have."

I actually think your observation is closer to the latter than the former.

Yes, I probably have enough material to cobble a good book together, and if I have any natural ability, decent instincts, good judgment -- and can glue it all together with a liberal sprinklikng of "heart" -- I should be able to get to "The End" before too terribly much longer (don't anybody ask me how long that is, I'll just quote Michelangelo).

On the other hand, sometimes I feel like I'm making Swiss cheese. I am trying to get used to the fact that there are just going to have be holes.
Notice that I say, this particular book, because as others have mentioned to you, (particularly your two lulus), this project is as a living and breathing thing.
Another intriguing concept. That, I contend, is why this website is here. Here, we gather our collective consciousness, and here, we breathe life into a paradigm shift. What is most challenging is how may disparate elements have to go into forging the lever that will eventually produce that shift.

I know that's what this book is about. It's one element in that process. It needs to get done and get out there. I'm working with what I have. It just gets a little confusing sometimes when you step into one of the holes in the cheese.

Thank you, everybody, for your expressions of support. Hopefully no hiccups for a while.

--PS
Paul Schatzkin
aka "The Perfesser"
"At some point we have to deal with the facts, not what we want to believe is true." -- Jack Bauer
ladygrady
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fascinating concept

Post by ladygrady »

Paul,

I have been jumping around on the forum trying to get a mental handle on everything and I found what you just wrote FASCINATING! And some of the responses on the forum are amazing too.

SOME OF THE THINGS YOU HAVE SAID THOUGH PAUL, I DON'T UNDERSTAND.(Now there is stating it mildly)

First of all, what is sidereal radiation? and then on to something simpler maybe. Card games.

I know Russian Bank. Its tough ... and you never know when someone is going to see that you have made a mistake and yell STOP! Right? And then you have to give over your turn and hope that he makes a mistake soon so that you can regain your position! I understand that it was the preferred game of and intelligence agents ... which makes it even more interesting in this context.

What hand were you dealt? I don't understand what you mean when you say that you "whine about the dastardly hand that fate has delt me"
What dastardly hand was that? What did I miss here?

You wrote in the early chapters that you got interested in the story of Townsend Brown by a mysterious Emailer. Was that the first card of your hand?

Then, you formed an association with the daughter of the man that you are most interested in and she apparently offered no hinderences, or if she did, you haven't mentioned them. So is that your second card? Looking pretty good here to me.

Then some, as you put it "associates of Dr. Brown" in the intelligence world stepped forward to help (is that the third card?) Building up to a pretty good hand here maybe, I would think.

I don't know you but its been fun studying this forum and your reactions here and there. Thats why I don't understand this comment on this "dastardly hand" that you have been dealt. I imagine that the forum itself could be considered a pretty good card.

So, you have mysteries? Well, to me ...... maybe thats just the luck of the draw? You have to give the dealer a chance, don't you?

Does it still look like a "dastardly" hand? Grady
Paul S.
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Post by Paul S. »

Grady,

You ask good questions, and I appreciate your input... let me get back to you on that Sidereal Radiation business. In the meantime...

When I used the word "dastardly" I was trying to be facetious -- a habit that gets me in no end of trouble here. Realizing that too late, I THOUGHT I had gone back this morning and deleted that one word from my post. Apparently the attempt at editing after the fact didn't stick -- and now you've gone and repeated the word a half dozen times. Oops.


I really don't to try to defend the use of a single word that, in retrospect, I realize was a poor choice of words, but like they say in court... too late, the jury has been influenced.

I'd really rather focus on the Swiss cheese analogy...

Your "one card at a time" outline of the dealing is fairly apt. Seen that way, it's hard to see what I'm running on about. And as Mr. Twigsnaper observes, it's easy to argue that I do indeed have "most of what I need" write a book.


But there are holes. Some of them fairly big, since Dr. Brown lived huge portions of his life "in the shadows." And there are limits to what even my most unimpeachable sources have been able to confide in me. And sometimes working around those limits is just... very, very challenging, as Chapter 37 readily attests.

So, at the risk of abusing my own now discredited analogy (that d-word) let's say it's like this: I've got five cards in my hand. The first card was a 10, the second a jack, then a queen, king, and an ace. The only problem is -- I can't see what suit the cards are. I see the numbers, but I can't see if they are clubs or diamonds or hearts or spades.

As you've suggested, even if they are all different suits, I've still scored a pretty respectable hand, a 'straight,' which is a kind of a middling good hand, between a flush and three of a kind.

But given the hand I've got... IF these cards are all the same suit, then I've got the highest hand in the game, a "royal straight flush."

On some very fundamental level, I know that's what I've got. But I also know that my efforts - my due diligence, my creativity, my instincts, etc -- are going to make the difference in how the suits appear on the cards.

It's a very delicate process, one that I probably don't help when I use words like... that one you've now gone and repeated all those times. But that's why we're here, in the background, getting feedback before anything goes to print.

Does any of that sound reasonable?

--PS
Last edited by Paul S. on Sun Jun 11, 2006 1:50 am, edited 2 times in total.
Paul Schatzkin
aka "The Perfesser"
"At some point we have to deal with the facts, not what we want to believe is true." -- Jack Bauer
Paul S.
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Re: fascinating concept

Post by Paul S. »

ladygrady wrote: I know Russian Bank. Its tough ... and you never know when someone is going to see that you have made a mistake and yell STOP! Right? And then you have to give over your turn and hope that he makes a mistake soon so that you can regain your position! I understand that it was the preferred game of and intelligence agents ... which makes it even more interesting in this context.
Somebody is going to have to teach me Russian Bank. It sounds like a much better analogy for what we're trying to accomplish here.

--PS
Paul Schatzkin
aka "The Perfesser"
"At some point we have to deal with the facts, not what we want to believe is true." -- Jack Bauer
twigsnapper
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getting it

Post by twigsnapper »

Paul,

You know when information is passed from one person to the other, sometimes vital information ...... the person handing off is sometimes plagued with the question " Did they really GET it?" Its too important to be misunderstood but usually you are unable to draw pictures to illustrate your point. You just have to trust that the person at the other end has the understanding he/she needs to look at the information and properly identify what is important and needs to be stressed. But you always wonder at that point if there is going to be some kind of a mismatch. Or you wonder if the message even survives to reach the right hands.

I am pleased to say, after reading your last. I have no more worries. Now just ..... to share a very good thought .... Trust that you have that hand .... GO FORTH. Twigsnapper
Martin Calloway
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swiss cheese

Post by Martin Calloway »

Paul,

Going back to your swiss cheese analogy, because it seems to really be working here. Swiss cheese is different than american processed cheese food. It looks different it tastes different ...... it has holes. So. People expect there to be holes in Swiss cheese. Doesn't stop them from ordering it. And the fact that it has holes is no disappointment because its better than the processed stuff by a mile. You worry I think too much about those holes in your story.

Martin
Paul S.
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Re: swiss cheese

Post by Paul S. »

Martin Calloway wrote:People expect there to be holes in Swiss cheese. Doesn't stop them from ordering it. And the fact that it has holes is no disappointment because its better than the processed stuff by a mile. You worry I think too much about those holes in your story.
Personally, I'm partial to cheddar cheese. Is that "processed" like American? I never eat American cheese if I can help it.

But you're right, I worry about the holes in the story. Too much? Maybe. But I'm adjusting to the concept, if slowly at times.

--PS
Paul Schatzkin
aka "The Perfesser"
"At some point we have to deal with the facts, not what we want to believe is true." -- Jack Bauer
LongboardLOVELY
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Swiss Cheese and other conundrums

Post by LongboardLOVELY »

Being in Hawaii has really allowed me time to think and reflect and reread. Paul, I think I disagree with Mark a little when he first said that this chapter was not up to scratch as those he first read. The reason I say this is this:

When you first started writing this "biography", you had concrete data; you had actual dates and people and notes and letters that make a story factual. Now, you have a lot of words from others and that makes for a much difficult writing assignment. I should know. In my field, you must write what you experience and what you test. But lot of things are left up to the experiments and words of others.

One of the things I want to have you think about is the flaky crust of a pie. In the olden days when we baked with Lard, crusts came out flaky and light but solid and layered. So now your story is a lot like a flaky pie crust. Sometimes the layers maybe added on to direct you in a direction that you may not have meant to go. Kind of like misleading layers. But I believe that these layers are being added on to give dimension and depth to the character and life of TTB.

This chapter started out a little whiney, but I liked the way you pieced it together. I am looking forward to tasting the rest of this pie.

OH, and BTW, I bought you a present at the Pearl Harbor Memorial. I will send it to you when we get home.

Best Regards,
Linda Bolland
Any fool can make things bigger, more complex, and more violent. It takes a touch of genius - and a lot of courage - to move in the opposite direction. ~ Albert Einstein
twigsnapper
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smart and bakes too?

Post by twigsnapper »

Andrew,

My goodness! You are a lucky man! Linda is smart and bakes too! And she cares enough about what interests you to even interrupt her vacation! Now that is a rare and unique trait.

So Linda, you said that you were interested in intelligence work when you were younger. Was it the CIA that interested you? Or another?

Twigsnapper
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