Bletchley Park - And Why We Are All Here

[twigsnapper]

[note: June 12 06: I have taken the liberty of renaming this thread which is done by changing the subject of Mr. Twigsnapper's original post. This thread started out as one thing, and has morphed into something even more important, and I think that needs to be reflected in the name of the thread. I can move entire threads to different sections, but I can't move posts from one thread to another, so this will have to do. --PS]


First of all, to Paul and those who expressed their condolences last week on the passing of a good friend, I thank you. The reality of life, is death.

Now on to other discussions.

Bletchley Park. Some of you out there had fathers and mothers involved with Bletchley so I am opening this post as an invitation. I realize that many of you have not ever been told very much. Some of you, I understand have even recently been told that you will not hear more information until 2012 or something of that sort. I encourage you all, while we are waiting for that material to shed some light, perhaps by joining this post we can all spend that waiting time productively.

So this is a call out there to those whose Fathers traveled without explaining where they were going. To those of you who had "visitors" living with you again with no apparent reason . Please join us here and share our thoughts. Combined effort has great reward.

Bletchley Park was about 50 miles away from London. Admiral Sinclair bought it, knowing at the time that there was going to be war .... and that London would be bombed and that he needed to set up this ... Station X he called it. He paid for it out of his own pocket. And I believe was never reimbursed. That was the spring of 1938. It was given the "cover name Station X" ... not because of the mystery involved but because it was only one of several such stations all bought with private money and EVENTUALLY moved over into government ownership. If those involved had waited for the purchase of those properties by the Admiralty to buy them ... or for other government agencies .... Hitler would have been sitting in one of those desks at the end of the war.

Paul, pay attention to dates. More sooner than later. twigsnapper

[Paul S.]

The reality of life, is death.

Or as some other pundit put it, "nobody gets out of here alive." Actually, I've always attributed that quote to Jim Morrison of "Doors" fame.

I understand have even recently been told that you will not hear more information until 2012 or something of that sort.

I have also heard that "2012" date, though in my case it was a reference to the Yankee side of the equation, an operation called "TICOM" (look it up in Bamford's "Body of Secrets.") However, when I've heard that date, it was followed by the words "if then..."

Bletchley Park was about 50 miles away from London. Admiral Sinclair bought it, knowing at the time that there was going to be war .... and that London would be bombed and that he needed to set up this ... Station X he called it. He paid for it out of his own pocket.

Again, I see that expression "out of his own pocket" and I am compelled to wonder, "sure, the money might have come OUT of his pocket but... how'd it get in there?"

However, I'm no expert on the British aristocracy and it's relationship to the military, so it's entirely possible that Hugh Sinclair had the means to acquire the Bletchley estate of his own accord. Here's a bit on Sinclair.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hugh_Sinclair

Clearly his roots with British intelligence go deep,

Paul, pay attention to dates. More sooner than later. twigsnapper

That whole mid-to-late 30s period -- in Brown's life, starting with the Caroline expedition --is fraught with mystery and intrigue. Clearly, somebody knew what was coming down the pike. What did Churchill call it, "The Gathering Storm" ?

Those were some mighty perceptive weathermen...

--PS

[Elizabeth Helen Drake]

Paul,

Unfortuneately that url doesn't go through for me on Sinclair... and I am sure that it would be interesting, if there wasn't something wrong somewhere. help!

Your comment about money coming "out of pockets", wondering by what means that money got in there in the first place. When you speak in those terms then you automatically have to look to the most wealthy people in the picture. Now that could be a very interesting thread of investigation to take.

You have the American military at one point saying that they "can't afford Browns experiments" .... even with urgings from high ranked people .... so perhaps as one of our readers suggested, Dr. Brown had help from another country? His loyalty has never been in doubt but I just wonder if he was "forced into the arms"
of another establishment which may have been more global in nature? And that sort of sounds like the description of the Caroline Group if we could get another and better look at it.

I guess its back to the old "follow the money" trail again, huh? Elizabeth

[twigsnapper]

I invite you and your readers Paul to look through a looking glass. Was it Alice who made the observation? "Its a great game of chess thats being played, ALL OVER THE WORLD, IF THIS IS THE WORLD." Ah, right now Paul wishes he was back on that beach with those blue waters within sight. Do you remember those words Paul?

Go to Bletchley with me then and see if you see some similarities.

There had been a grand call put out though it wasn't the kind of call that could be broadcast in the newspapers. WANTED, BRIGHT, ENTHUSIASTIC, IDEALISTIC, BRAVE, WILLING TO GIVE UP NORMAL LIFESTYLES FOR .... AN UNEXPLAINED GREATER FUTURE GOOD. (and there was the direct understanding that all that had to be done without a whole understanding of EVERYTHING that was happening under that roof. One hut did not know what the other hut was doing. And further, they trusted in the fact that it was better that they not know .... that the situation that they were asked to live in was a reflection of the times where at every turn there were dangers to security ... it indeed was a great game ... but a wholly serious one ... and the people at Bletchly signed on without really ever knowing the whole of it. You would think that it would hurt their feelings being left in the dark. Those that took that line, where they needed to know more to go further usually found themselves suddenly wondering why they were outside those gates. But the best of them, as you are Paul, the best and the brightest stayed the game. Look up some of those names someday ...


Hummmm . Makes a person wonder if such a call went out today . If there would be any takers? But back to Bletchley.

However they were brought "under one roof" you have to understand that however big the roof was, most there did not know what the other did. You could be living with a chap you had known for years and if his WORK was in another hut .... you just didn't ask. I mean that seriously. You just understood that there were things going on that for security reasons you were just not to know. and Paul you can see from the way that Linda was raised that even in her own family she grew up with that idea. There were some things that you just didn't ask. For her it simply boiled down to ... Do I have faith in my father and whatever it is that he was doing? And her answer was a lifelong and still existing ,YES.

And it was an odd assortment. those people called to Bletchley and her other counterparts. Perhaps never matched in human history. Gentlemen and Ladies went out from Bletchley to continue with fascinating lives. Some were professors of the classics, some went in the pursuit of war criminals, some into government .... but they all were touched by BP.

(You sons and daughters out there reading this and you all know who you are. Responding or not.) I rather wish that you will step forward because even the smallest remembrance passed on to you could be an enormous stepping stone over some very deep water for our man Paul here. Personally thanking you , ahead of time. Thats a phrase, by the way, that Townsend Brown used to use and I have noted also that his daughter uses it sometimes without realizing that she got that from her Dad, but its a good thing, to thank someone ahead of time.)

For those of you I encourage you to look into the history of Bletchley because the way it came together, the "glue" that held those strangers together is actually what Paul is writing about and maybe he hasn't just seen that yet and your extra input would help. Twigsnapper

[Mark Culpepper]

You are right of course Mr. Twigsnapper. From what I have read about the people who worked at Bletchley Park, very few of them even mentioned that they had even BEEN there much less shared "war stories" with each other.

I will leave it all to others to dig up different individuals .... but this was a strange crew from the sampling that I have seen! Professors, scientists, privates in the army(????) Many went on to politics. Many of them were interested in the ancient world. Many studied sanskrit. (Which, I guess, is a good place to go if you need to communicate in a language that nobody understands. Pick a dead one .... or one that is so obscure that most people would have no knowledge of it!)

I can see, if there was a "Modern Day Bletchley Park" .... is that what you are hinting at here Mr. Twigsnapper? that there is STILL .... or AGAIN such an organization in operation? And of course if that was the truth I imagine all of the old rules would still apply? Maybe even more rules considering what a dangerous world this is now.

But as they are saying over and over and over today ... the devil is in the details and I am sure that if an organization like that existed TODAY it would be as hard to find out about as Bletchley was then.

So Paul, where is this going do you think? This road to discovery is, lifechanging, speaking from experience. Mark C.

[grinder]

So, Mr. Twigsnapper,

How did they get these "volunteers" for the work at Bletchley Park?

I mean, if you can't advertise how do you find these guys and then once they have learned their job how do you keep them from walking off and spilling the beans? Seems like every person who learned anything at all could be a great problem if he was not loyal to the cause. And thats not even counting the intentional spies. So thats a good question for today even. How do you keepem on the farm, after they've seen Pairee" Don't know where that came from. My Grandfather used to say that and it just came out!

Did Bletchley ever have a security break? Maybe the best question would be, IF they did, would anyone hear about it anyway?

See, thats probably the hardest thing. You are dealing with a situation where even their mistakes and blunders (maybe especially those) are hidden under this enormous rug and some information will probably never see the light of day!

Paul mentioned that Morgan had wanted to join the CIA .... so is that where he ended up? Is that getting ahead of the story?

If he did, how did he get accepted? Could Dr. Brown have "sponsored" into the organization? But that doesn't make any sense because it seems that Mr. Stephenson is interested in the kid and he was Canadian (or English?) So what did Morgan have to do to get accepted to this "Group"? And does he still associate with them? Why do you think a "Group" like that would nave even considered Morgan? What traits did he have (besides the romantic interest in Dr. Browns daughter. Hey, maybe that was all that counted! grinder

[Paul S.]

Unfortuneately that url doesn't go through for me on Sinclair... and I am sure that it would be interesting, if there wasn't something wrong somewhere.

It should be working now. And here it is again:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hugh_Sinclair

--PS

[twigsnapper]

This is in answer to "grinders" question about getting appropriate applicants to a secret organization. It is always a dicey situation. You can't advertise as everyone has noted.

"wanted, energetic, brilliant, patriotic persons" for job that is never to be mentioned to any living soul for the rest of your life. You cannot tell your friends what you do, and even to the brink of divorce and beyond you can not tell your wives or girlfriends. You can not tell your children unless it is in some sort of veiled form that they may or may not discover at a later date. For Mark C it was a strange unexplained knife and a letter of apology to his family .... for me? ... I am still writing my letter ... and the knife is in a case in my den.

So, OK ... Maybe someone like Morgan will come along with that inbred passion for adventure. A likely candidate. He would have been put through several stages. And those introductory stages would have actually lasted for years. Because you see, if he "washes out" he can not have learned so much that he takes the operation with him. So effectively he is treated like the proverbial mushroom.

In Morgans case the draw was a pretty young classmate. Ah, that was love not planning, but for others they had to be drawn in through devices.

A competition for example (why I want to work for the CIA? essay writing contest?) joking here but I think that agency actually used that ploy! Of course they could announce themselves as recruiters. When you have to stay under the radar even more you have to devise other ways.

Bletchley had a crossword puzzle competition. The entire thing in less than 12 minutes. Those who could do it in that time or less were made note of, contacted later and things went from there. I think sort of the way the film .... "Mercury Rising" handled it. Throw something out there, see if anyone can do it. Sort of like that. Twigsnapper

[Mark Culpepper]

Mr. Twigsnapper,

You know that I am greatly indebted to you for the information that you seemed somehow able to get to flow in my direction. And I have learned in this process that some of my questions will be answered if I but ask. Some others will be ignored.

And you seem to be able to tell the difference between a real need to know on my part of it , and a sharpened sense of just flat being curious for that sake.

I just want you to know that I appreciate anything that you send in my direction. My daughter and I have followed up on my Dads path, following your leads about the knife and the training and its as if magic doors opened for us. Now we have been able to see a man that was far different than I had expected.

Of course there is great sadness that he was never able to share all of that with us but now I certainly see what he had to deal with.

I sense that you have done also what my Dad did.

You said that you were still writing that letter. May I say something totally out of line? Please contact that person! A letter is just not quite enough and you are a man I believe who deserves to be known, really, by his son or daughter. Is that entirely impossible ?.... responding with all the respect possible from one human to another. A letter just isn't enough and you still have time. Mark C.

[twigsnapper]

Thank you Mark. Under advisement.

Back to Bletchley. Understand. I did not serve there so you will have to decide if what I have told all of you (and Paul , this is a constant excercise)
Are these the ramblings of an old man? Yes? Are they valid?

Since I am on a rambling rampage you might ask yourself. So .... information was transmitted to those bright ladies and gents who broke the code that shielded it. Now what, exactly.

I can speak to that a little better. Paul knows this is one of my favorite words "Liaison". I don't know. Always been a little naughty sounding to me. But that was just me in my youth.

When information came into Bletchley it was collected by a special group. ONLY BY THAT GROUP OF INDIVIDUALS . Those units were then responsible for hand carrying those transmissions and the responses on them to commanders in the field. Original notes for that message were immediately destroyed. Then it was up to that officer to get that recoded message where it needed to go. And he had to do it without anyone else ON HIS SIDE knowing who he was working with or what he was doing.

This chap was normally a lower ranked officer. He didn't garner any awards for his work.because that would have meant a raise in rank and that is not what was wanted.

People he worked alongside generally did not have any idea what he did. The object was to move about un noticed. Which many of them learned to do very well. He would have learned to exist right under peoples noses without them knowing that he was there. Not only exist, but thrive.

As to the message that he just delivered. When the commander acted on that information he was to never refer to it. Actually on the outside . Nothing ever happened in that loop.

And with a history like that Paul , do you wonder why you are having a hard time getting information sometimes?

Twigsnapper

As to the above message. It didn't exist. <g>

[Paul S.]

And with a history like that Paul , do you wonder why you are having a hard time getting information sometimes?

Hah. Who? Me? Having a hard time getting information sometimes?? WhatEVER gave you THAT idea?

Surely you're not implying that I have been anything less than gentlemanly when somebody has said "nope, not going there..." to me?

But seriously, Mr. T, all you're sharing with us here about Bletchley... I can appreciate the lessons there in. Sometimes, it seems like we're in a "virtual Bletchley" ourselves these days.

I mean, I just can't help it... I just think sometimes that I could do a better job in my hut if I had a better idea what was going on in yours.

And I know it doesn't work that way, but sometimes that's a hard lesson to learn.

As to the above message. It didn't exist. <g>

Message? What message? I don't see no stinkin' messages...

--PS

[twigsnapper]

Paul,

Your comments about being in one hut and wanting to know what is going on in another vaguely reminds me of a musical score. I think it was " The King and I" where the King explains to Anna " Yes but ...... flower must not ever go ....... from bee ........ to bee........ to bee!" Twigsnapper

[Elizabeth Helen Drake]

Forgive me Paul and Mr. Twigsnapper,

I am having just about the best time ever watching the last responses between the two of you !

And Victoria! Really! we do miss your comments! I just thought that I should take your place .... smiling here ..... so ...." will we have a chapter tomorrow, huh Paul, huh Paul?." <g>

I hope you are really having a good time Victoria and look forward to your good company when you come home. I am sure there will be much to talk about. It seems strangely quiet out there! Elizabeth

[grinder]

Mr. Twigsnapper,

I just wondered if you happened to know what these intelligence agencies expect as far as an IQ rating on the people that they want working for them? I wondered if there was a standard then. A bar that you had to meet ?or could you be accepted simply by practical application.

I mean, obviously you have to be quick with words and dual meanings! Twelve minutes! Give me a break! But what else were they looking for at Bletchley or was there a different job for different talents? I'd fail that twelve minute crossword puzzle!

So, are you the person who can fit in anywhere, un- noticed?

I caught that in your last message and I thought of you particularly when you said that. You also said in an earlier post that you were a "military man" where Dr. Brown was not. (I guess that was in the fifties when that picture was taken.)

So did Dr. Brown know anything about defending himself? Or was that left to his "military escorts" Someone here said he was just sort of the sweet scientist looking for his decoder ring and I thought that was pretty funny but so far from the pictures I hve seen of him he generally seems to be having a pretty good time. He either didn't realize how serious things could get, or he trusted you completely. I think it was probably the last.


And I can see that there are specialists for different purposes. You haven't said it outright but I would guess that you were not exactly the type of person to spend your day pushing pencils. So can you tell me your duties and responsibilities regarding Dr. Brown?

I note that he had a driver at Ashlawn. Were you his driver too? I have figured if the guy could ride a motorcycle that he probably could drive a car, so was that just your "cover" when you were with him? gee, sorry, more questions out there than I thought I had!

grinder

[twigsnapper]

Grinder,

Don't know if I can entirely answer your questions.

Were there tests for the folks at Bletchley. Yes, each person developed quite a psychological file. Most were extremely intelligent. Perhaps in some ways TOO intelligent (I never had that problem!)

Many of the folks there were actually in show business, many were writers. They used to put little skits on for their own entertainment (because you really couldn't go anywhere) and the quality of the skits were everybit as good as you would find in any theatre circle. Of course the tough thing was that there was no putting anything over on your audience because they all had IQs of 200 or so. Course now people don't use that scale or take it as seriously but then it was pretty powerful to have an IQ that high.

And yes some of them had to be taught safe firearm handling. One of them even wrote a poem .... which I probably can not remember ... about the parts of a rifle ... so that they would remember what to do, step by step. For military men the whole lot of them were a challenge.

And they all went their own way, no military discipline whatsoever. It was worse than Hawkeye on "Mash". But they also knew that usually they were too valuable to be replaced and could pretty much write their own ticket. Instead of money though most of them worked off of pure passion and the challenge.

The "driver" assigned was always armed. And always under orders, if a kidnapping was coming down ... the standing order was to "shoot to kill" .... not always the kidnappers ..... but the codebreakers. And that was my order too.

Anyone out there familiar with military intelligence and communications? Tell the folks then if the order is still standing. I believe it is. Twigsnapper