Chapter 36 - The "Do You Love Me?" Panic of '65

Use this section for any discussion specifically related to the chapters posted online of the unfolding biography, "Defying Gravity: The Parallel Universe of T. Townsend Brown
Paul S.
Sr. Rabbit Chaser
Posts: 1361
Joined: Thu Mar 17, 2005 1:11 pm
Location: Psych Ward

Chapter 36 - The "Do You Love Me?" Panic of '65

Post by Paul S. »

Paul Schatzkin
aka "The Perfesser"
"At some point we have to deal with the facts, not what we want to believe is true." -- Jack Bauer
Victoria Steele
Mysterious Redhead
Posts: 930
Joined: Mon Feb 20, 2006 7:06 am

speechless

Post by Victoria Steele »

Paul,

And I am SPEECHLESS.

How did you ever get so close to these two people? How did you get inside their heads like this? How did you manage to write such a personal saga of their relationship? This chapter is such a wild departure from anything ordinary, its like jumping off a cliff. Amazing!
And you are sunk now, because ..... I am even more gone on Morgan than I was before!

He was, even then, displaying the characteristics that I am sure made him the complicated, brilliant, unpredictable .... hardshelled ..... tough as nails, character that the Caroline Group was looking for.(And I am SURE now ... recruited)

I know after reading this that if he is a military man now (maybe retired by now?) He is someone I am sure his men would have followed anywhere. The type of man who would have been first in any dangerous situation. But none of them would have ever gotten this close.So it just floors me, really, that he let you get this close. That has to be an amazing gift to you as a person as well as a writer. No, I don't think anyone else would have gotten this close.

I don't know what his future with Dr. Brown held for him, and I can't wait to find out! But thanks to you and this extraordinary piece of writing I do actually feel that I have had a chance to get to know Morgan, probably better than anyone around him. I expect there have been many people who loved this man. None who actually knew him. Well, almost no one.

And you dedicated this for me? Ah! To keep the witch off your back? Maybe? But I love that you did that and I am so honored! I can't even begin to say!

So now I am off on vacation. Just cuz I am going ... means nothing. I'll be back! Thank you Paul. Victoria
Martin Calloway
Junior Birdman
Posts: 174
Joined: Sun Feb 26, 2006 4:21 pm
Location: Buffalo

impressions

Post by Martin Calloway »

Its good to get the impression of what these two young lovers are all about. And who hasn't been there in one form or another? Questions I have are decidedly less romantic. As in "What outfit in Nassau" "Who was Decker?" "What did Dr. Brown mean ... I don't have to go to the mountain, the mountain is coming to me?"

This is after Morgans first meeting with Mr. X (who was actually William Stephenson, one of the greatest spymasters in history.) Morgan is being brought in ..... what happens next? He I think here is like a kid, hoping he can keep Linda and his future too? And all the time not letting her know whats going on? Now theres a problem! Martin
Trickfox
The Magician
Posts: 1461
Joined: Sat Feb 25, 2006 7:06 am
Location: Quebec or Montreal
Contact:

Victoria's secrets

Post by Trickfox »

OK, well that was a steamy one for sure. I could even see a movie script on this one. :oops:

Darned good reading. :lol:

Morgan was no fool, and had an important future planned for himself otherwise he would have been wrapped around Linda's little finger for sure.

Myself I would have probably fell into some trap at that age. :wink:

trickfox
The psychopropulsier (as pointed out in the book The Good-bye man by Linda Brown and Jan Lofton) is a Quantum entanglement project under development using Quantum Junctions. Join us at http://www.Peeteelab.com
Paul S.
Sr. Rabbit Chaser
Posts: 1361
Joined: Thu Mar 17, 2005 1:11 pm
Location: Psych Ward

Non Sequiturs

Post by Paul S. »

I guess this is going to be a problem I'm going to encounter from time to time as I try to weave these two story lines together: sometimes, elements of one story will show up as a non-sequitur in the other. That's sorta what happened here.

In the meantime, I guess it's OK here in"back-channel-land" to try to answer some of the obvious questions.
Martin Calloway wrote: As in "What outfit in Nassau"
"Nassau" was once described to me as "Caroline Group updated." The specific identity of "Nassau" remains tantalizingly out of my grasp, other than to say it is the extension of what ever orbit Dr. Brown began traveling in the 1930s.
"Who was Decker?"
"Martin Decker" was an entrepreneurial type that Brown's operations in the Philadelphia area were associated with in the early-to-mid 1960s. He had his fingers in a number of pies, and fostered some of Brown's fan/speaker research under an umbrella company called "Electro-Kinetics." Decker eventually went bankrupt and is -- surprise! -- a very difficult figure to find much info on. The complex of buildings that he operated on a hill in Bala Cynwyd PA (not far from Ashlawn) is now condos and office buildings, and the only recored of Decker's former presence is one street named after him.
"What did Dr. Brown mean ... I don't have to go to the mountain, the mountain is coming to me?"
My best understanding of that is that whoever "Nassau" was, at first they wanted Brown to set up shop in the Bahamas, and eventually relented to let him stay in Homestead. And eventually he returns to Philadelphia... and Decker.

Once again.... the answers only raise more questions.

--PS
Paul Schatzkin
aka "The Perfesser"
"At some point we have to deal with the facts, not what we want to believe is true." -- Jack Bauer
Mark Culpepper
The Dean
Posts: 655
Joined: Sun Feb 19, 2006 6:02 am

this Morgan fellow

Post by Mark Culpepper »

Some guys just have it all. Right? Or so they think. Seems to me that this Morgan fellow figured that before Linda showed up in his life. He had his life tied up in a pretty neat bow. Champion this, champion that, star student.......- The skinny dipping adoring naked girls that he seemed to have at every turn. But it was, I think for him, ..... boring.

So looking for adventure he makes a "run" at this interesting classmate...... and in doing so gets invited into Dr. Browns study.

Then all of a sudden he runs into everything that he had ever imagined.

A possible job offer that might offer all of his dreams! Perhaps danger and intrigue! (Paul wrote that Morgan had wanted to join the CIA and fancied himself James Bond and now all of the sudden he has found himself in the company of obviously powerful men that seem to know alot about stuff they won't talk about. His radar is beeping. You have to know a man is powerful and important when he has bodyguards with him .....

and I am sure Lindas charms were not lost on Morgan either. And now the locale was possibly going to shift to a James Bondian place like the Bahamas! No wonder he said he wanted to come down again for another summer visit! He's no dope!

And then of course, there was the romance... and lets face it ... the sex ....I don't have another picture to go by but I can tell you that the girl on that horse is a fit individual and probably looks just really terrific in a bikinni. Old Morgan has fallen into a bed of roses! .... Then suddenly she spoils it and says "I love you"

What to do?, what to do?, what to do? Plead the fifth? sweat alot? .... swear alot? ....... hold your ground fella.! And just see how it all plays out! Mark C.
Mark Culpepper
The Dean
Posts: 655
Joined: Sun Feb 19, 2006 6:02 am

re reading material

Post by Mark Culpepper »

And here is an example of what I said in another post. This chapter, as well as the comments that it generated need to be reread because everything is coming full circle. Mark C.
grinder
Senior Officer
Posts: 694
Joined: Wed Apr 05, 2006 6:20 am

"Caroline Group" updated?

Post by grinder »

Thats what you said Paul earlier in this thread. That the "Nassau" people that Dr. Brown was dealing with was the "Caroline group updated.

So what is it now, do you think? Forty some years later. Such a group would not have just dissapated. Who are they now? Morgan most likely. and who else? And what are "their" concerns NOW?

Just something ELSE to think about. I think that others have pretty much agreed that Stephensons outfit existed but what has it "morphed into?" If Morgan was there with Dr. Brown on his last trip. There to receive or safely transport those notebooks and last papers, then surely he is a man of great importance in this group.

And following that logic, if HE has been helping Paul with the development of this book. Does that mean that the "Caroline Group-turned Nassau Group-turned Morgans group" are they helping Paul too?

If thats the case. Why is everything such a mystery to Paul. Shouldn't he already have all of the answers? Whats the hold up? I was never good at being patient! grinder
grinder
Senior Officer
Posts: 694
Joined: Wed Apr 05, 2006 6:20 am

learning to be patient

Post by grinder »

I just realized that I had written the last comments ....hummmm... September 15th. Look folks thats a whole three months ago. I guess patience is a virture ha.

And I didn't realize that you Mikado hadn't been able to read this particular chapter until Paul fixed it somehow. Got your decoder ring now and I assume that you have read it. I am curious as to your response.

For me. It mad me laugh actually because Morgan is doing such a good job of sidestepping the issue. He THINKS hes got things all set, but in actuality Linda sees right through him ..... stick a fork in him, hes' done.

Still, haven't we all been there in one form or another?(if we have been fortunate!)

And Linda is alot more understanding of his nature than any other woman would have been I think. And I figured that out too .... she just wanted to know if he loved her ... she didn't want marriage and the baby carriage like other women of that age. She would have left him in the dust I think if he had turned the tables and spouted " Lets get married!" Live in some small town for the rest of our lives ..... raise five or six kids ..... buy a house that we can barely afford .... and you dear can sign up for the local PTA and I will, lets see .... join the Lions Club or something like that and work toward getting my gold watch and retirement fund after so many years.
Yeah right. Can you see this particular couple doing that? yeah, right.

She has moved at leat two times a year for most of her life. And Morgan is just getting his freedom. Neither one would actually want to be married and settled down. They just want to be lovers. Cool. grinder
Victoria Steele
Mysterious Redhead
Posts: 930
Joined: Mon Feb 20, 2006 7:06 am

one of my favorite chapters

Post by Victoria Steele »

Actually this chapter 14 is one of my favorites because it gets away from the science just a little and into romance , and the break is ... refreshing. Interesting to me how both Linda and Morgan seemed to have the ability to at least sense what might be in front of them.

And if he hadn't been so accustomed to dealing with all of his other girlfriends, keeping them all at a safe distance emotionally, he would have realize here that he was dealing with someone TOTALLY DIFFERENT than the others.

https://www.ttbrown.com/defying_gravity ... etalk.html

"Morgan looked at Linda, could see her listening intently, as if she could see his vision herself. “I don’t know where that picture comes from,â€
Radomir
Senior Cadet
Posts: 325
Joined: Sun Dec 24, 2006 6:51 pm

Just read this one

Post by Radomir »

I was one of those who missed this chapter because of the broken link. What a stunner. I echo previous comments about how close you've been able to get to these two people, what they have entrusted to you to portray of their lives.

I've received and sent letters like that, and I've lived through the years of working out after the fact what happend, how, why, what I was avoiding, what I couldn't allow myself to see or feel, and what it meant. I was incredibly fortunate, unbelievably fortunate, that it all worked out well in the end. All I can say is great way to ground this story in such a core of passion and love, and I mean that grounding in both a literary and an electrical sense.

On the lighter side of things: Paul we motorcycle fanatics will want to know the make, model and year of all the various motorcyles Morgan rode, has ridden, or might like to ride in the future. When you write something like "he put his motorcycle under a tarp" that's when you have me shouting at my laptop screen "What kind of bike? what year? How many miles were on it?" He gave up motorcycling AND his girl to join this group, whoa, I mean that is serious. Does he ride these days? These are important details that really tell a great deal about a person's character, values, etc.

Mr. twigsnapper might tell you a horseman knows another horseman just by watching him ride, and by the qualities of what chooses to ride.

Am I serious? There are other things I want to know, scads of things, that I want to know much more fiercely, but this topic at least seems like something that might actually be divulged...with little risk and perhaps with some shared enthusiasm.

R.
twigsnapper
Revered Elder
Posts: 839
Joined: Wed Mar 22, 2006 5:25 pm
Location: mobile

Dr. Brown too

Post by twigsnapper »

You might be interested in the fact that Dr. Brown was quite a motorcycle fanatic too, which is all the more interesting considering the restriction that he put on Morgan for a few years.

Paul might tell you the story of him with his old Indian. In fact if Paul has a chance and can put his hands on it he might have a picture of the motorcycle that Dr. Brown rode in the hills of California when he was a teenager.

I may be wrong but I believe that Morgans first bike was an old Triumph. He didn't have much into it, when he "moved up" it was to a BMW, which I believe he had with him at Antioch and which would have been the one I think that he covered up. You have to understand, I am not a motorcycle person, (give me a good horse). I did appreciate his love of wind in the hair experience, but the fine particulars are lost on me. really sorry.

Much later in his career he chose a Harley. I guess part of the appeal was that with the helmet on no one could see who he was and at that time it was important for him to maintain security. By that time I believe he had gotten far enough along so that he couldn't really be told not to ride and I believe Dr. Brown just shook his head as Morgan roared off down the road. Somewhere I have a picture of Dr. Brown with Morgans helmet on! I believe he would have taken off, but I think it was finally Morgans chance to say "No Sir, you are too valuable". Thanks for bringing that memory back to me! Its one of my favorites. twigsnapper
Radomir
Senior Cadet
Posts: 325
Joined: Sun Dec 24, 2006 6:51 pm

Thanks again

Post by Radomir »

Beautiful. Thank you. Exactly the dimensionality I was seeking. I'm sitting here grinning from ear to ear.

So Dr. Brown too, that's so interesting to hear. And I can totally understand his saying that to Morgan as I've often wondered how I could possibly justify telling my son not to ride when I do every day. It's a paternal thing--it's ok for me to risk my neck but it's not ok for you to risk yours. I'll have to get over it, as I assume Dr. Brown did with Morgan riding. What closure for Morgen to get to tell him no himeself after all those years.

I know you said you're not a motorcyclist, but if you haven't seen _The World's Fastest Indian_ give that a try some time.

My wife is the horsewoman. I still have that in front of me to learn.

'Night.

R.
Paul S.
Sr. Rabbit Chaser
Posts: 1361
Joined: Thu Mar 17, 2005 1:11 pm
Location: Psych Ward

Motorcycle picture/story

Post by Paul S. »

twigsnapper wrote:Paul might tell you the story of him with his old Indian. In fact if Paul has a chance and can put his hands on it he might have a picture of the motorcycle that Dr. Brown rode in the hills of California when he was a teenager.
Here is the picture of the motorcycle Twigsnapper mentions :

Image

In the document I sometimes refer to has Brown's "autobiography," he writes this about his motorcycle adventures with one Arnold Beckman. The time period is around 1923, during the time when he was being snubbed by the likes of Robert Millikan at Cal-Tech:

During this period I was tutored in chemistry at the house by Arnold Beckman, 23 years old, an Assistant in the Chemistry Dept. at Cal Tech. An Interesting side light in this connection, was our motorcycle accident. It had been raining and California Street (asphalt) was slippery. Beckman occupied the Buddy seat. We were not going fast, but we skidded nevertheless. We both set on the hot exhaust pipes which made quite an impression on our memory. In a subsequent letter from Arnold Beckman -- after he became famous end Head of the giant Beckman Industries -- he recalls the incident with considerable amusement.


--PS
Last edited by Paul S. on Mon Jan 15, 2007 6:05 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Paul Schatzkin
aka "The Perfesser"
"At some point we have to deal with the facts, not what we want to believe is true." -- Jack Bauer
Mark Culpepper
The Dean
Posts: 655
Joined: Sun Feb 19, 2006 6:02 am

following horses

Post by Mark Culpepper »

Just a few comments to let Paul know that I am still here. Reading with great enthusiasm. But I haven't had much to add so it was better for me to sit still.

Radomir. Your posts have been exceptionally interesting. I ride too, nearly everyday and I count that my gift and curse. My way of escaping. My daughter has nothing to do with motorcycles, so I don't have to worry about warning her off.

If you only have a son, and a horse crazy wife. You are going to get slammed not quite as hard as I was. Started with horsecrazy wife (from a long line of horsepeople) ... bred myself a beautiful daughter with the same love. Has escalated now into a divorce but friendly relationship with wife, daughter who is up to her ears in horses. Which means Dad pays the board for FOUR horses now (she has a youngster she is training) ... I bitch bitch bitch but I love the sight of her up there and would learn too if I wasn't so sure I would make an idiot of myself. One thing about my bike .... You turn it off ..... it stays put ..... you don't have to clean it, feed it etc. Alot to be said. But whatever Lisa wants at this point in her life, as long as she is going in a positive direction, I am all for. So, do you have the pickup, the horsetrailer, the show schedule? the grooming duties yet? SMILE man.

As I said, I find your posts extremely interesting. Looking for more.
And a thought on my end. If a call was put out today? What form do you think it would render itself, given the parameters? Look hard again Radomir. The answer is right in front of you. Mark C.
Locked