L. Fletcher Prouty articles.

[Janoshek]

I hope some of you read the L. Fletcher Prouty articles that Paul has as a link on this site. They seem to indicate that all things are not bright and beautiful.

[LongboardLOVELY]

I hope some of you read the L. Fletcher Prouty articles that Paul has as a link on this site. They seem to indicate that all things are not bright and beautiful.

I actually did pull a few stories from some web links. Haven't read them all yet, nor the book he wrote. I am working through a few other things right now. What things were not all bright and beautiful?

Here are a few links - which one would you recommend? Or is there a better place to read his articles?

http://www.prouty.org/
http://www.ratical.org/ratville/JFK/GoD.html
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/prouty.htm

Thank you for your input!
Linda Bolland

[twigsnapper]

Linda B, Mark C and hello Janoshek,

A bright student, a dedicated teacher and a renegade scholar in the same place and the same time. Now how fortuitous can that be?

Linda, while you are delving into all of this why don't you try to find the individuals that were included in what FDR called "The Room"

You will find some interesting individuals , one of which was named "Biddle" from Philadelphia. He also had his fingers on the pulse of things at the time, could see ahead, as you have mentioned of others. I guess though, everyone is entitled to one big mistake and he interpreted what he saw wrongly just once..... thats a pretty good average maybe.

Your point about these individuals seeming to know what lay ahead? Were they actually seeing the future? or were they just wise enough to know which way the marbles were rolling? Twigsnapper

[Mark Culpepper]

Mr. Twigsnapper,

Seems to me that the only way that an individual or a country can "know ahead of time" about stuff is to have an extremely accurate intelligence agency, or agencies.

Its been the current topic so we should all have that on our minds. But in the scenario that we are looking at right now is 1933 forward to the outbreak of the war in Europe in 1939 and then with our entry in 1941. And I am assuming that "The Caroline Group" was either a purchaser of information or a provider, or maybe both.

So, given that introduction, Mr. Twigsnapper, can you speak a little bit about how the Caroline Group may have acted in those capacities?

I can see clearly that there were moves made to shepherd our young scientist. Can you speak of anything else at all? Or .... give us maybe, an idea of what things were like for people like my Dad? You were an enormous help for me and my daughter in filing some major holes in our understanding of my Dads activities. Could you perhaps give us some insight into what Washington was like maybe during those years? I know that would be " before your time" but I am sure that you are no slouch as a historian too and your viewpoint would be wonderful to hear. If I am becoming a pest just tell me to go away!

Mark C.

[twigsnapper]

Mark,

You know son, sometimes you can gather intelligence, but nobody listens to you.

When you are LUCKY its the other side who has the dense superiors.

huh try 1941, Washington DC, before the US entered the war. Its springtime, at the basin cherry blossoms everywhere and there were agents from every country for every bloom. Maybe its just the way you see things when you are in the business but mostly its true. And it was true then too.

Here is an interesting intelligence loop. Do your homework Linda and double check me. I am an old man and sometimes I get things wrong.

Henry Wallace was the Vice President at this time. He was upset with his President, FDR. He confided to a Russian spiritualist these thoughts . So a "blinking light went on over his head". Soon his sisters husband was placing phone calls to him on a daily basis. They chatted, (because, after all, they were family.) The brother-in-law happened to be the Swiss Ambassador. Every stinking thing that Wallace mentioned in these friendly chats (on a daily basis, mind you) all those "Chats" were sent by courier or cable immediately to Bern. There a Nazi agent ("Habakuk") was waiting for them. Into his hands they went ..... within a few hours .... directly into Hitlers hands.

Pretty slick actually. Later that year the Nazis (working off of this connection) told Japan that the United States had broken their encrypted messages. And the information was good intelligence painstakingly collected from the above source and other sources. The Japanse officials decided, on thier own ... THAT SUCH A THING WAS IMPOSSIBLE. And they ignored the information.

Part of the reason that the US was able to win the war. Strange, what?

Twigsnapper

[LongboardLOVELY]

Here is an interesting intelligence loop. Do your homework Linda and double check me. I am an old man and sometimes I get things wrong.

Henry Wallace was the Vice President at this time. He was upset with his President, FDR. He confided to a Russian spiritualist these thoughts . So a "blinking light went on over his head". Soon his sisters husband was placing phone calls to him on a daily basis. They chatted, (because, after all, they were family.) The brother-in-law happened to be the Swiss Ambassador. Every stinking thing that Wallace mentioned in these friendly chats (on a daily basis, mind you) all those "Chats" were sent by courier or cable immediately to Bern. There a Nazi agent ("Habakuk") was waiting for them. Into his hands they went ..... within a few hours .... directly into Hitlers hands.

Pretty slick actually. Later that year the Nazis (working off of this connection) told Japan that the United States had broken their encrypted messages. And the information was good intelligence painstakingly collected from the above source and other sources. The Japanse officials decided, on thier own ... THAT SUCH A THING WAS IMPOSSIBLE. And they ignored the information.

Part of the reason that the US was able to win the war. Strange, what?

Twigsnapper

Mr. T,
I remember reading about that Russian guy who was some kind of spiritual guru. His name was Nicholas Roerich. I believe his real name was Nikolai, but I am not sure what his surname was. I am in search of that information.

The stuff about Wallace's sister Mary is legend. I don't know anything about "Habakuk", but I do remember that Mary was married to Charles Bruggmann (or was it Bruggemann?) and that he was kind of like a double agent for Hitler. Hmmm, so then all this came to light and Wallace got bumped from the Democratic Primary ticket? Not the best running mate for our dear President for the following election year? Here's something else about the US winning the war that you'll probably remember:


Despite FDR's fixation with Intelligence, security within his Administration was appalling. Only Cordell Hull, the Secretary of State, was supposed to see America's most precious resource. Here is what you were talking about:

The Magic decrypts that Hull shared (with at least six subordinates, who went on to share them with others) meant that multiple copies were slopping around Washington: in May 1941 the Nazis warned Tokyo that their codes were being broken. Had Tokyo not insisted - absurdly - that its codes were unbreakable, this would have cost the Allies dear.

There is a great book out there called Roosevelt's Secret War... did someone already mention this somethere? I feel a very strange dejavu...

Anyways, there you go.

yours truly with great interest in someday meeting you,

L. Bolland

[Paul S.]

I hope you can all follow the trail here... I've moved this topic into the "website discussion" category from the "Chapters" category, since we're trying to keep that section for discussions that stem just from the chapters themselves.

Granted, the conversations there get pretty desultory too, but we try to keep things logically parsed where we can...

And, as long as we're following links around, here's another for you;

http://continuity.gnn.tv/blogs/6310/Con ... its_part_3

...which came up after Googling "henry wallace wiretap"

The material here seems to address some of the larger issues we're dealing with. I'm not sure how it connects to TTB, but it's all part of the background that we're learning about.

--PS