Chapter 33 - Dredging The Depths

[twigsnapper]

Mark C and other students of history.

I encourage all of you to dig back into the history books of this era. Paul will soon be there with his story of Townsend Brown and to fully appreciate what he is going to be saying , if you are a student of history look at the activites during 1933 through , say ... 1945 ... Might be interesting for you.

I think there was an earlier discussions about "secrets". Maybe it was Victoria who said that "secrets can in fact be taken to the grave". And the secrets that were developed and hidden during those years have been taken to many graves. Now though, some things can be said.

In 1974 the first open reference of a program named ULTRA appeared when Group Captain Winterbotham was allowed (encouraged) to publish a piece of work called "The Ultra Secret". That was just the beginning and agendas were oozing out of every page, but at least it was one "knot" ..... to pick up on Elizabeths reference .

Pauls book will contain more information, more "knots" for history. So that, as we touch each of those "knots" we will be drawn closer and closer to the actual truth of our history. And when we know that FULLY we will be closer to taking that other "step up" someone else on this forum mentioned.

ULTRA until 1974 was never mentioned by anyone. Many went to their graves never mentioning a word to anyone. Pure operatives died without explaining any of their activities to their wives or children. Lives keeping secrets to the very end.

As an interesting example, Commander Edward Travis was one of the most important men involved at Bletchley Park. All those years most everything that happened there he knew ALL about. He was awarded a knighthood for his service .... but when she learned of this upcoming award, Mrs. Travis asked with a blink of astonishment ....."But WHAT FOR?"

Look hard Mark. You will find that quote in open print too, though rather obscure! Twigsnapper

[Madison]

SPLASH! Oh! What a nice pond this is! I have questions!

I can understand that during the war a wife could be kept pretty successfully "in the dark" regarding her husbands activities. The old "loose lips sink ships " type thing. But what happens after the threat of war goes away? How many women out there are going to buy into the " I can't tell you where I went, who I talked with". scenario.

And what about today? How many "operatives" have had to give up their family life because they couldn't compromise their situation? Want to bet that our own Mr. Twignsnapper has stories to tell along that line? And I'll bet they aren't as funny as " "what did you get that for?" from Mrs. Travis.

What about the people out there that would say that a man owes more to his family than that constant evasions from telling them the truth ?....( and if he did have children and a home, they should come first.) So what does that man have to do, make a choice early on between being with the person he loves, or doing his job, which I do understand, he would also feel is vitally important.

So how would he choose? How many chose NOT to go in that direction? How many times did the "Caroline Group" I wonder, approach a promising young scientist, only to be rejected? Would he then know that he had even be offered anything, I wonder? I mean, when you are dealing with a "secret " organization" They are hardly going to come up to you and say ..."MR. JOHN DOE ... WE ARE OFFERING YOU A POSITION IN OUR SUPER SECRET ORGANIZATION. WE HOPE THAT YOU WILL JOIN." No .... don't think it would happen like that. So what kind of "apprentiship" would these men (and perhaps women?) have had to go through before they knew what the whole score was?

Did some of them never know everything? Strikes me that only a small handful would be given the entire viewpoint.

And so, I wonder, what did Dr. Brown think he was being offered AT FIRST. Did he just think that these gentlemen were interested only in his "sidereal radiation work" .... or did he realize right away that he might be asked to step into a far different field? Mr. Twigsnapper seems to imply that he was given " armed escorts". How long, I wonder? And WHY?

Understand about Pem Farnsworth and sorry to hear that the world has lost what was for Philo and their family a great and wise person. Madison

[grinder]

everybody

I never thought that I would dig out books on the history of World War II, just for the challenge of following a particular story.

On another section Mr. Twigsnapper seemed to connect with Mark C regarding his fathers history. Shoot. Sounds like you could make a movie about THAT mans story. This is amazing. Or are we just so good at not seeing heros until so many years later.

The first thing I did was pull out several books on Winston Churchill. And I looked for William Stephenson in the back . Most of the time he is never even mentioned. But on a website search I find that the CIA has just in the last few years dedicated a statue to the man. Invisible to most ... but a statue awarded by the folks that should know their own history. Talk about keeping secrets.

And you know, all this is sort of pointing to Townsend Brown being the scientific version of James Bond himself.

So, was "The Philadelphia Experiment" just a planted ruse?

Mr. Moore? You still ignoring us? OK I guess, just curiosity on my part. Just wondering if thats what you thought too, now that you have stepped away from all that UFO stuff. Do you think you were involved in some sort of disinformation project? The letters that you got from Allende seem to point to that. Sure would like to hear your thoughts on the subject. grinder

[Victoria Steele]

This is really wierd to have a Thursday come and go and not have anything new to talk about, but I have to admit tht the last bunch of posts from Mr. Twigsnapper and others have sort of kept the ball rolling.

Just to let you know Paul that we have all done our best to "talk amongst ourselves" .... stil I am very impatient to see where you will go next with this story.

So we have Morgan joining Mr. Xs organization? Or was it Dr. Browns organization?

Did Morgan also end up being someone who also had to have a "guardian"? ...... Or did he become a guardian? I suspect the latter, but I am not so sure. Can you tell us anything more about this Morgan, Paul? Anything at all? Anybody else curious about this guy, or is it just me?

Victoria

[Paul S.]

Sorry that the fix pix don't really give you a whole lot to talk about....

Just to let you know Paul that we have all done our best to "talk amongst ourselves" .... stil I am very impatient to see where you will go next with this story.

I appreciate all the posts, which I've had a chance to check out when I've been able to make it to the part of this resort that's got wireless. I have tried to keep abreast, albeit in a minimalist fashion. Some of the posts have been terrific.

So we have Morgan joining Mr. Xs organization? Or was it Dr. Browns organization?

Yes.

Can you tell us anything more about this Morgan, Paul? Anything at all? Anybody else curious about this guy, or is it just me?

He's tall, and a master of disguise. You never know when he might be sitting at the table next to you.

--PS

[Victoria Steele]

Yea Gods! .It speaks from the depths!

Cool phish pics really. I think I'd be too busy looking for sharks! Raised on land. Staying on land ,thankyou very much!. I like sandy beaches though, big time.

And you actually answered a couple of my questions about Morgan. Sorta in shock here!

I'd ask again what he is doing now and what sort of "business" he might be in, or if he is retired by now but I got the impression from what you said that whatever business he is in , its not the kind of business you ever retire from .... and his privacy is even more important to him than Lindas is to her . So, I can respect that. So, do you think that he may check into Vegas in November?

Back on the romantic side of Linda and Morgans relationship. I have this feeling that all is not going to go well in this love affair .... but you know ... its sorta like watching two trains approaching each other .... I know there probably is a sad, broken romance here .... but I can't stop watching ...... don't tell me, I don't want to know yet. I know I am right. I just want to follow the story. Victoria

[greggvizza]

It seems that some very witty individual put together the story of the Philadelphia experiment in a way that would provide details without providing any of the real names or places. Everything is a pseudonym in the story, and everything seems to be centered around my home town of Pittsburgh PA. The main character, Dr Franklin Reno is the name of two small towns north of Pittsburgh; Franklin, PA and Reno, PA. The town that Carlos Allende was supposedly from was New Kensington, PA which is on the east side of Pittsburgh.

Pittsburgh is what you would call the largest of small towns. It is a midsize city but it is very much a very small town. Everyone is related to everyone, and everyone has worked with everyone and everybody knows everybody. There may be 6 degrees of separation between any two people on the earth but there is only 2 degrees of separation between any two people from Pittsburgh.

Westinghouse Electric Corporation was one of the major employers in the area, being headquartered here since George Westinghouse founded the company in the 1800’s. Nicola Tesla spent a good bit of time in Pittsburgh at the Westinghouse facility in East Pittsburgh. There were literally thousands of engineers and scientists employed by Westinghouse in the past; I even worked for them as an engineer for a brief period early in my career. I get the feeling that somehow this is all connected to someone from Pittsburgh with firsthand knowledge.

A friend of mine told me of a WWII sailor that lived near him in Clairton, PA who was on the experimental ship during the test (this man is was not the source of the Philadelphia Experiment info, but just another Pittsburgh coincidence). My friend was not into conspiracy theories or sci-fi like I was, he was just a regular guy who happen to know a neighbor who was in the Navy in WWII who told him a crazy story. His description was exactly the same story and this was in the 70’s before the book even existed.

I can also be lead to believe that the naming of the ship was a very cleaver way of sneaking the name Eldridge into the book, as a sort of hint. I suppose knowing that there was a Navy ship named Eldridge was too tempting to not use it as the pseudonym. Funny how TT Brown’s name was not disguised in the book. The fact that anyone in 1979 writing a book had even heard of a man named TT Brown would be amazing unless it were a fact. TT Brown was virtually unheard of until after the electrogravitic craze in 2001 when NASA patented one of his inventions and amateur experimenters all over the world started building working models they termed lifters. With the invention of the Lifter in 2001 Brown was elevated to celebrity status.

The real Navy experiment can be found at the link below complete with the real names and places and from a very credible I witness source with exemplary credentials. It’s a bit of a long read but very worth it. If you have a technical background it is a captivatingly short read.

http://www.beckwithelectric.com/ber/Ltt.pdf

Gregg Vizza

[Elizabeth Helen Drake]

Welcome Gregg .... thank you so much for joining us with your input!

We have much to discuss ..... I will be back with you. Your message caught me just as I was stepping out the door for the day ... Just wanted you to know that you will be hearing from me.

Since you are new to the site ... I am Pauls research assistant. He, lucky fellow that he is .... is bobbing around in some warm Mexican waters right now on a well deserved vacation ... so things here on the forum have been sort of motivating along just waiting for his return to his writing desk.

I appreciate your input about your area and I especially noted the 2 degree of separation (which was actually very funny)

I also note that you are located in Largo Florida. Is that just during the winter .... or have you moved there to escape the weather up north? Would not blame you.

Anyway, welcome from me .... the rest of the forum I am sure will chime in as they notice your post. Elizabeth

[Victoria Steele]

Gregg,

Welcome too!.

I haven't had a chance to read your information yet, but look forward to it and you can expect responses.

Here is another question for you. What was it do you think that prompted you to get involved in this field and to follow up on the work of Townsend Brown?

I agree with you that it seems have been just too much of a temptation to SOMEONE not to use the name Elderidge .... in the story of this wild experiment. I am assuming that you have read all the new information that Paul has uncovered regarding Eldridge Johnson. All I can manage to do so far is go ....hummmmm....

I'll get back later tonight, to tomorrow. Thanks for jumping in this pool with us! Victoria

[Trickfox]

He was awarded a knighthood for his service ....

Twigsnapper, By any chance did you attend Sir Edward's dinner celebration with William Friedman when he was knighted?
I'm curious about the "potage Ultra" and the "Poulet Arlington" I wonder who the "chef" was and how he came up with such a creative dinner menu.

Trickfox

[twigsnapper]

Are you speaking of Sir Williams ceremony? If so, alas, I missed it.

And had to chuckle a little bit about the menu. I usually don't pay too much attention to the food at these affairs, unless I am required of course, to eat first. Ancient ways sometimes die hard!

Joking aside, sorry can't help but its a quirkly observation and I appreciate it! Twigsnapper

[greggvizza]

Elizabeth,

That is not my website at the bottom of my post. I am still living in the Pittsburgh area. You were in hurry to leave and didn’t read all the way to the end of the post. That link is to a paper written by Robert Beckwith, who was working for the Navy during the Philadelphia Experiment (which didn’t take place in Philadelphia and which used a private yacht, not a navy destroyer). He is now in his mid 80’s and still the active CEO at his company in Florida.

Check out his resume at the link below:

http://www.beckwithelectric.com/about-b ... h-res.html
http://www.beckwithelectric.com/ceo.html

Thanks everyone for the warm welcome. I joined the TT Brown email list back on the day that it was introduced, back before Paul started the book. I have followed along ever since but didn’t have anything to say until today.

Thanks

Gregg Vizza

[greggvizza]

Victoria,

To answer your question, I became interested in TT Brown’s work strictly from a technical standpoint. I am an electrical engineer who became bored with electronics, because the field stagnated. I knew that gravity was the next frontier and had developed my own theory of gravity and when I learned of electrogravitics in 2001 I jumped right in. I viewed TT Brown as just an early 20th century researcher who filed a few patents, until Paul started writing the book. Now I am in total awe; I didn’t expect his life to be this mysterious. I had no idea.

Gregg Vizza

[Trickfox]

http://www.beckwithelectric.com/ber/Ltt.pdf (THIS ONE IS HOT)
http://www.beckwithelectric.com/about-b ... h-res.html
http://www.beckwithelectric.com/ceo.html

I think everyone should pay attention to this carefully.

I just examined the PDF. There are technical issues here which parallel work I have also explored in physics. None of these technical issues has been mentioned thus far outside of a few hundred highly advanced papers that I have been collecting and studying for years. I have never seen any of it being presented on the Internet either. This appears to be "deep Black" stuff as well as I can tell so please pay attention you teckies out there. Browns journals contain some of the materials, but you have to take a look at other areas of science and math to begin to understand the big picture. Mr. Beckwith's white paper (quoted herein) is a great step into this area of knowledge.

Trickfox