The Spiritual Implications of Time Travel, Etc.

A place to engage extended discussions of things that come up on the ttbrown.com website. Anything goes here, as long as it's somehow pertinent to the subject(s) at hand.
Chris Knight
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Post by Chris Knight »

Mikado,

You seemed to focus on Jesus there a bit, and leave Mr. Allah, Brahma, Vishnu, Elohim, Jehovah and Krishna out, among others. Please don't forget our friends adhering to Buhddism, Judaism, Hinduism, Islam, Mormonism, Seventh Day Adventism, Humanism, Atheism, Wiccan, Hari Krishnas and all of the multitude of other greater or lesser faiths, many of whom have tried to sway me.

I know in today's world it's socially acceptable and politically correct to put down Christianity, but try to put down Judaism, Islam, Hinduism, or Mormons, and Heaven forbid, then you are considered intolerant. I wonder why that is.

As far as agendas go, science is just as bad as any other facet of life. In fact, I'd say scientists are some of the most biased people out there, and what makes it worse is that these are the people that are supposed to be giving us an unbiased interpretation of the universe. As a geologist, I am excrutiatingly aware of how much really bad science comes out of geology. It was the same in physics, electrical engineering, and biology. Basically we've got a bunch of data points and we interpret the meaning based on our biases. Like Elizabeth said, we are immersed in our biases, like fish in water.

Take it from me - I'm biased and I have an agenda. That said, though, should you believe what I've said or not :wink: .

Andrew
Elizabeth Helen Drake
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standing up, yea!

Post by Elizabeth Helen Drake »

I have no issue at all a persons choice of religion. Andrew ,the fact that you have thoughtfully sorted it out in your head and your heart and have come to the conclusion that you are ready to call yourself a follower of Jesus. I applaud that. If you had come to the same conclusion and declared that you were Buddist, or Mormon or ..... whatever .... I would applaud that. It to me should be a matter of that personal decision.

Many times I wish that I had been able to sit and listen to the words that Jesus spoke and look into his eyes. I think I probably have the potential to call myself a follower of Jesus too. Maybe a follower of Luke, Matthew, John, not so much.

I think that you may be feeling the effects of a sort of situation, where there occurs "swayed against Christians backlash" but consider for a moment that might just be a reaction from others against the equal push of fundamentalist agendas that are out there and becoming stronger and stronger in the politcial world. Its sort of a pushing and shoving match as I see it with strong forces on either side.

You make an interesting statement .... You name many other religions and then say that they have "tried to sway you" but I submit that Christianity in its many forms is the MOST prone to trying to "sway people"

I have many American Indian friends. Some of the elders have told me themselves of the way they were treated as children in the "Christian Indian schools". Their native religion was "disregarded ,to put it kindly. So if I sound a little wary of a religion that puts so much emphasis on "swaying people" in so many different ways, then you can see why. (Funny now that the tribes are making so much money from the extensions of "bingo games" that were taught to them by the Christians in their midsts!)

I absolutely, positively agree with you regarding scientists being biased. Add to that many of them are locked economically into a financial system that rewards their work ONLY if it goes in the agenda that is expected.

But you do see what I was trying to say. We all have agendas. If we can be honest enough to put our agendas on the table, the way you have ...... and as I hope that I will be able to do ... then we will all make some progress in understanding what our reality actually is. Elizabeth
Victoria Steele
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intolerant???

Post by Victoria Steele »

You guys know me well enough by now to know that my mouth is usually the one thing that will get me in trouble. And I have been known to insult people ...( meaning to and not meaning to.) So with that I jump into this conversation.

Andrew. You might try to get that " Oh, poor Christians in the modern day, so put upon!" scenario up in the air but with me it flys like a ten ton brick.

Christians have historically been one of the worst groups when it comes to displays of intolerant behavior. Ask the women who were tortured and burned at the stake, ask the Indians of this country. Ask a small town girl, perhaps caught in an action that offends the people in her congregation! If you are personally feeling a little uncomfortable right now about other people being "intolerant" toward your beliefs ..... well, what can I say. "What goes around, comes around?"

You are a wise man though and I don't think that you would let a religious bias color your work. Would you? I ask that question carefully because I think someday you will be an important man in the developing field that Dr. Brown has introduced. Will you be the ships approaching the islands? Will you consider that all should believe as you do? Will you take your belief system out to meet others with the thought that whatever they are and whatever they believe is "inferior?" Because if they don't they believe as you do, or accept Jesus in their lives ..... they have somehow erred? Tough question perhaps. Your turn. Victoria
Last edited by Victoria Steele on Sun Oct 29, 2006 8:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Chris Knight
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Post by Chris Knight »

Elizabeth,

Absolutely, in fact, Christianity, Islam, and Judaism are responsible for some of the more widespread travesties against humanity. As with all religions, there are a wide range of people involved with Christianity (and other religions) with all kinds of agendas, and many people use religion as a means to gain money, power, prestige, sex, power, and so on.

Unfortunately, they are the ones we remember. Some of the people I respect the very least in this world I see on the television all the time, particularly during Sunday mornings and election time. It is those who try to adhere to the basic principles of Christianity (and other religions) whom you never hear about.

In any case, I thought we might have gotten off the topic a bit, but then I went back and looked at the topic title, and this is exactly what we are talking about.

Andrew
Last edited by Chris Knight on Sun Oct 29, 2006 9:03 pm, edited 3 times in total.
Mikado14
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hmmmm

Post by Mikado14 »

This is going exactly as I thought.

Your move Mr. Twigsnapper.

Mikado
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy
Mark Culpepper
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test coming up

Post by Mark Culpepper »

Mr. Twigsnapper,

I have enjoyed and learned from your posts so very much. And it is not lost on me that you have come back into our conversation with the subject of "spirituality" at top dead center.

I know that you do not do that in a random manner and of all of us here you yourself are probably one of the most "agenda driven". Bad for us that you usually can not tell us about those agendas. We end up taking what you say on the level that we need to take it. Are you positioning our thinking? Probably. Thats what good teachers do. They don't tell you what to think or do but they put you in a situation where you can see many of the roads available, then its really up to you. So suddenly we have been opened to this subject. Again, after months.

I sense thats what is happening here. I was sort of amazed at what Elizabeth said about us banging on a closed door. We are so insistant that it open for us but as she said " are we really ready?" When that door swings open WHO WILL WE BE WHEN WE WALK THROUGH IT?
Chris Knight
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Post by Chris Knight »

Victoria,

Looks like I got this thread tweaked up a notch. There's nothing like religion, politics, or taxes to get everyone going. :wink:

I was writing the answer to Elizabeth's questions, but they apply to your comments as well. I'm not one to really "oh, poor me and Christians" kind of fellow. Whether you're black, white, yellow, short, tall, Christian, Islam, poor, rich, an IRS employee or whatnot - someone out there really thinks the world would be better off with you dead. We're just ornery is all.

As far as biases go, I do have biases, but science is science, and data is data to me. For example, when I go out to delineate a subsurface chemical release on a industrial property, I'll take a number of samples at various depths for analysis. If drill five holes and take two samples at each boring, then I have ten samples. I know exactly what is ocurring at ten locations and depths. As soon as I try to exptrapolate what is ocurring at any other location or depth, then it is purely a guess, but my job is to take educated guesses.

In any science, we have a finite set of data points, and it is a scientist's job to make the best guess he can to apply to the rest of reality - this guess is always biased, and all scientists are always wrong to some extent as soon as they go outside of their data. Until we know every single bit of data in the entire universe(s) then we can't be sure we are 100% correct.

My viewpoint is that extrapolation is great, but I understand that everything outside of my data is just a guess. I do know the universe is logical and orderly, which has allowed me to jump from Point A to Point D without going through Point B or C. I do extrapolate, but I do know that any extrapolation has to be supported by experimentation.

In any case, I deal with a data-driven science, and I'm more of an engineer than anything else. I'm interested in maximizing thrust or power, or minimizing attenuation or other losses. I don't have to really worry about the philosophical and theological aspects, since as Trickfox and I have discussed, we'll leave the weapons systems development to someone else.

I consider it my responsibility, to help get you "out there," wherever "there" is, in the most comfortable fashion possible. Whether or not the universe is our playground or not is a matter of philosophical conjecture. I suspect everything else will come out in the wash.

Andrew
Last edited by Chris Knight on Sun Oct 29, 2006 9:15 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Mikado14
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Jesus

Post by Mikado14 »

Chris Knight wrote:Mikado,

You seemed to focus on Jesus there a bit, and leave Mr. Allah, Brahma, Vishnu, Elohim, Jehovah and Krishna out, among others. Please don't forget our friends adhering to Buhddism, Judaism, Hinduism, Islam, Mormonism, Seventh Day Adventism, Humanism, Atheism, Wiccan, Hari Krishnas and all of the multitude of other greater or lesser faiths, many of whom have tried to sway me.
I only quoted what Dr. Jordan mentioned, he left them out, not I.

Mikado
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy
Mikado14
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answers

Post by Mikado14 »

I posted questions, several individuals responded based upon the questions but only one actually attempted to answer the questions.

Point is made.

Thank You Elizabeth,

Mikado
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy
Victoria Steele
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Babe in the woods

Post by Victoria Steele »

Listen folks,

I just got into a kind of "discussion" with my new boss. Now I like and respect him very much and I believe that he feels the same about me. I had proposed a certain program which I thought was entirely workable. He snorted (sort of) and said that I was being naive and that things in my program would fall apart because I didn't have the right people in the key places to make it work. I found myself insulted somewhat when he said with a twinkle in his eye " Now , don't be a babe in the woods"

So, I say the same thing to you Andrew. Do you REALLY think that you and Trickfox would be able to "leave the weapons systems development" to someone else? And that will release you of responsibility? You believe that your philosophy and religious backbone isn't going to be tested? As if you guys are going to have a choice? Or maybe thats what will make it easier?

Much here I sense that has to be carefully considered. so while you are doing it don't be naive or we will all be out in the woods together! Victoria
Last edited by Victoria Steele on Sun Oct 29, 2006 9:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Chris Knight
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Post by Chris Knight »

Mikado,

Thank you for clarifying. I never take offense, but I always enjoy rising to a challenge. I am always happy to discuss philosophy, theology, politics, or taxes.

Victoria, you are right, but Trickfox and I never said our research wouldn't be used in military applications, or that we wouldn't accept military contracts. We just agreed we wouldn't work on weapons systems. We always have a choice, even if one side is unpleasant, and we always make a choice, even when we don't.

And you are right that it is hard to say, "no, not ever." Who knows what extenuating circumstances may pop up. Let me rephrase that and say that we choose to work on projects that appear to provide the greatest good. There's no guarantee that an engine wouldn't be put on a tank or a bomber. Like I said, we're all just ornery.

Andrew
Last edited by Chris Knight on Sun Oct 29, 2006 9:24 pm, edited 3 times in total.
Mikado14
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Re: Babe in the woods

Post by Mikado14 »

Victoria Steele wrote:Listen folks,

I just got into a kind of "discussion" with my new boss. Now I like and respect him very much and I believe that he feels the same about me. I had proposed a certain program which I thought was entirely workable. He snorted (sort of) and said that I was being naive and that things in my program would fall apart because I didn't have the right people in the key places to make it work. I found myself insulted somewhat when he said with a twinkle in his eye " Now , don't be a babe in the woods"

So, I say the same thing to you Andrew. Do you REALLY think that you and TRickfox would be able to "leave the weapons systems development" to someone else?. And that will release you of responsibility? You believe that your philosophy and religious backbone isn't going to be tested? As if you guys are going to have a choice? Or maybe thats what will make it easier?

Much here I sense that has to be carefully considered. so while you are doing it ...... don't be naive or we will all be out in the woods together! Victoria

I love this gal!!!!

My hat is tipped my dear.

Mikado
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy
Mikado14
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Post by Mikado14 »

Chris Knight wrote:Mikado,

Thank you for clarifying. I never take offense, but I always enjoy rising to a challenge. I am always happy to discuss philosophy, theology, politics, or taxes.
I really didn't clarify anything.

The questions were chosen specifically from Dr. Jordan's posts.

There were four questions based upon themes from within.

Two questions were my questions.

Mikado
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy
grinder
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question answered

Post by grinder »

One of your questions has been answered previously by Mr. twigsnapper Mikado, as well as the reason I think that he reintroduced the topic. Take another look at this post :

viewtopic.php?p=1050#1050


especially this part , though ALL of it is meant to be reread I think, so here goes:


"Even the way I phrased that comes from the age where the general public " learned" about beings from "outer space"(forties, fifties) It seemed such a fantastic thought then but was so soundly incorporated in the language and the life of the times! I think of alot of things when I think of the fifties. "Flying Saucers" and the "atomic bomb" are just two of them. The public was fed a lot of horseshit regarding both of them.

Regarding the atomic bomb, "Duck and Cover" was one of the manure piles! Those of you with some age on you will recognize now how ridiculous that all was! (As if a desk was going to protect you! ) Those of you who are too young to know what that phrase refers to, perhaps you should just know that you are very fortunate.

The things said about "flying saucers" was entirely another pile dumped out there. No serious look at that phenomenon was encouraged. In fact, if you ever happened to see something,(and were brave enough to mention it in the press or to your neighbors), you were AUTOMATICALLY dubbed a crackpot. And as advanced as we THINK we have become,that attitude lingers.

And of course behind the public attitude of something there generally lurks an agenda. Downplaying the seriousness of an atomic blast? The agenda was to do several things. Calm the children, while scaring the bejeezus out of the adults, selling the " red threat "for the current political climate. Just two of the agendas at work..

Flying Saucers presented a problem of keeping the general populace calm and maintaining control in an uncertain age. By dismissing the whole situation as "rubbish spewing from the lunatic fringe" was quite a bit easier than actually explaining them. Or even LOOKING for a true explanation. a perfect example of EYES WIDE SHUT.

In both cases. Eventually those being disinformed become informed. EYES THAT WERE ONCE WIDE SHUT WILL BECOME WIDE OPEN. And then its a whole new situation, and a whole new age. Twigsnapper "

I notice that this was written in April. I guess its meant to be studied again? Yes Sir, Mr. Twigsnapper Sir .... as Paul has said. grinder
Trickfox
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hiccup

Post by Trickfox »

I think I will change for the better today.
I will stop doing what I should not do....
and I will start doing what I should, .....
and all of time will reset in an "INTERVAL" of time............... (Period).

trickfox
The psychopropulsier (as pointed out in the book The Good-bye man by Linda Brown and Jan Lofton) is a Quantum entanglement project under development using Quantum Junctions. Join us at http://www.Peeteelab.com
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