The Spiritual Implications of Time Travel, Etc.

A place to engage extended discussions of things that come up on the ttbrown.com website. Anything goes here, as long as it's somehow pertinent to the subject(s) at hand.
Mikado14
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Your answers

Post by Mikado14 »

Chris Knight wrote:Mikado,

You are right, and as I said, many injustices have ocurred under the flag of Christianity. However, Christianity is but one faith, and no one has faith in nothing. We all believe in something. I've noticed a few calls for opinions from other religions or beliefs here on the spirituality of time travel, etc., but I haven't seen one solid answer yet.
I will answer now.
Chris Knight wrote: You are also correct that it's difficult to stick out your neck for your beliefs when it comes down to the wire. I'm just one person, and whether as a scientist, I, or others like me, might be a front man is a matter of conjecture. Just as important are the many other people in the world whose opinions and beliefs will affect how they react to such an encounter.
I was speaking in general terms in regards to "sticking your neck out". I believe I have been sticking my neck out in terms of this forum for a while now. I just personally would not call it that.
Chris Knight wrote: 1) "Lets just say that another intelligence presented itself to you. How would you regard it, falling back on your beliefs? If it does not appear to you as being "human," how would that affect your viewpoint? .
The first item that needs to be addressed is the word "belief". I have a path that I follow. It is not a belief, it based upon something entirely different but I will admit that in the beginning it does start as faith (search would be a better word) but changes into something different. The fact that the being does not appear human is moot. As I stated earlier, I talked with dogs and horses, you just have to learn with an open mind. Meeting any being not of this world would just be like meeting someone on the street to me or even meeting Andrew Bolland eyeball to eyeball.
Chris Knight wrote: 2) How quickly would others with similar beliefs regard these outsiders as "evil" or "good," or "beneficial" or "detrimental?".


This is a loaded question. No matter how it is answered there will be feedback for there are several ways to answer. The first way that I would answer this question is that I cannot speak for others. Secondly, I may presuppose an answer based upon similar circumstances of historical data. Thirdly, there is that word belief, I can speak for others that follow a similar path to mine and I would guarantee their reactions would be on the same order as mine.

Chris Knight wrote: 3) And what would your responsibilities be in this new relationship to this new "creature" ?.
Those responsibilities would be the same as if I met you eyeball to eyeball. I would have preferred the word "being" instead of creature but then we are creatures too.
Chris Knight wrote: 4) Some branches of science teach that mankind has fought tooth and nail through the evolutionary process to reach the top of the evolutionary tree, and that everything else is below him. If this "creature" happened to appear to be "beneath us" on the evolutionary tree, would we then automatically be its master? Would it be "sub-human?".
First of all, the question presupposes ascribing to certain....beliefs. I will tell you this, I am no one to pass judgement on any being, irregardless of appearance, I may end up not liking their personality but that happens whenever you meet someone new. On another note, by what barometer is the being measured "beneath us" or "sub-human". I must admit that I have difficulty with that concept.

Chris Knight wrote: 5) If this is the same process that works throughout the universe, does this mean that we should automatically fight this new threat to our evolutionary station, since they would have gone through the same fight to get where they are ? Or should you assume they have transcended that process?.
I will answer this by saying that I would greet with an open hand. From that point on, it is their move. If need be, I would protect my world, your world.


Chris Knight wrote: I do have to disagree with your statement "There is no place for religion in science but there is for science in religion." Religion is any faith-based set of beliefs - even atheism is faith-based. Where your faith lies determines your interpretation of the universe and reality. In that context, I would say that science and religion are inseperable.
I will answer with a cut and paste as I have seen you do in the past.

faith
1. Confident belief in the truth, value, or trustworthiness of a person, idea, or thing.
2. Belief that does not rest on logical proof or material evidence. See Synonyms at belief. See Synonyms at trust.
3. Loyalty to a person or thing; allegiance: keeping faith with one's supporters.
4. often Faith Christianity. The theological virtue defined as secure belief in God and a trusting acceptance of God's will.
5. The body of dogma of a religion: the Muslim faith.
6. A set of principles or beliefs.

I will simply state that science is not faith.

I said that I would answer your questions and I have. I do it with respect, for all questions should be answered, and honestly. I have kept them brief.

I will make a statement, reading this particular thread I almost am inclined to say that I would prefer an agnostic make any first contact for they will not be tainted with notions of God, religion etc. Any Christian, Muslim, Hebrew, etc will all have an agenda to prove whose "faith" is the correct one. That would be most embarrassing.


Mikado
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy
grinder
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reaching out

Post by grinder »

so on the Voyager, hurtling into deep space did they have to worry about which would be the proper religious representative to another intelligence? As I recall they included pictures of a man and a woman, and the words " greetings" in almost all the languages on earth. Am I right?

Maybe we are all worrying too much about our communicating with them. They apparently know what they need to know about us. Why haven't they announced themselves? Does the phrase " Run Forrest run strike any chords? I think that you used that Mikado when you were talking about visionaries charging for their services? Whenever I see a discussion on religion looming on the horizon thats usually what I think too. That alone would be enough to keep them away!!!!

And then on another subject. How about transdimensional communications?

You are an interesting woman Elizabeth. That comment on witches came right out of the blue, as some of your comments do sometimes. But they invariably mean something important.

So I looked up "All Hallows Eve" and read that its the one time of the year when the " dimensional membrane" between the living and the ones who have passed on is the most narrow. I don't know who figured that.

Interesting thought so I guess this is the time where the ones on the other side are supposed to be remembered and this is the one time of the year when they can most easily communicate or travel from one dimension to the next.

So , if witches do this as a matter of course ( communicate with other dimensions and other times), maybe THEY should be the ambassadors to another intelligence or another dimension? Plenty of previous practice! And a naked witch in the desert is just bizarre enough maybe to encourage some other intelligence to jump dimensions to check the situation out! grinder
Trickfox
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Witches, Gurus and idiot savants

Post by Trickfox »

Let me introduce an idea at this point which many of you are familliar with.

A witch, is like a guru, or a pope, or a respected monk, or even a (poorly named) "idiot savant". In some ways, -some of these characters are very effective charismatic people who get the juices flowing in others by just "being themselves" in a
funny way.

THEY do what is in their nature by doing something "differently with consistancy" and this challenges our normally accepted notion of reality.

For a few moments perhaps,....these special people cross-over the veil of parallel realities and show us a "Funny lookin" side of reality that is "pretend" from our perspective but "real" from their own perspective.

Now try this same idea on with an exceptionally gifted genius savant (idiot Savant). As with the guru, -we examine the power of a genius savant and for a moment when his or her two perpectives meet, -we witness their power to out-think all normal complexities. Right then there are exchanges of ideas, and the "majic" occurs,..... except that, -in the genius savant, the real/not real crossover point really does defy reality. How can they possibly do and say what is normally impossible for anyone else?

Sometimes the majic occurs simply because we agree and It's sometimes called "a ritual". or "a Celebration" or a "cheer". -As when one sport team meets and they all create the winning spirit together.

It's one of those "human" qualities which seperates us as different "sentient type" being which operate in abstract dimensions, -that which Animals can never experience, and that machines may one day surpass.

Some gurus take themselves too seriously and fall into the suicide trap. They convince their enthusiasts to kill themselves or others on behalf of faith (of any kind). Isn't that a complete waist of faith?

Do gurus, religious leaders, and other philosophies no matter how "gothic" they look, -have the right to communicate such outlandish paranormal claims as long as they stay away from issue of death and suicide?

YOU BET THEY DO!!!

Witness J.Z.Knight talking as the GURU Ramtha. She is supported in her claims by several fully acredited doctors and physicists. Is that because she has convinced everyone that she is a "dead" warrior from thousands of years ago. Well..........."MAYBE"

The Guru Raël has convinced his followers that he has met extraterrestrials in Flying saucers and that his team has cloned a Human Babies. Well......."MAYBE"

Does anyone have the right to make seamingly impossible claims?

You bet they do!!!

Does that mean we have to conform to any dogma about Christianity Raëlinanism, Whichcraft, or Satanism, Or the neutral and balanced Hinduism. or any other ISIMS, or philosophy?

No more than we have the need to let a genius savant become a world leader in control of nuclear weapons.

Absolutely not.

We can just seize our own reality and flow with it, resolve all spiritual issues, proceed cautiously and move on with personnal destiny.

It is in our own nature as "Sentient Beings" to be aware of abstract possibilities, IF ONLY TO AVOID possible dangerous possible timelines of catastrophy.

We predicted 9/11 type attacks, but there was very little consciousness devoted to making it real. (except for a small group) That is normal and it's the same reason "Snuff films" are burned. Negativities should allways experience the least recognition and should be the fastest forgotten issues.

Now it seems the biggest power on earth tries to put more consciousness on issues which need less consciousness and rather, -more "change of view".

I dare not be more specific but in a few days I expect we shall know more.

So let us all think about CHANGING things within ourselves and see where the immediate future leads.

Trickfox
Last edited by Trickfox on Wed Nov 01, 2006 7:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Mikado14
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Re: Witches, Gurus and idiot savants

Post by Mikado14 »

Trickfox wrote:Let me introduce an idea at this point which many of you are familliar with.
You really can communicate when you want to. I am impressed with your answer. Everyone is on a path, perhaps I can see a little better of what Raymond is. I concur with your thought and again, I am impressed.

Mikado
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy
Elizabeth Helen Drake
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impressed also

Post by Elizabeth Helen Drake »

Mikado,

You, Andrew and Trickfox share a trait with Townsend Brown. One FBI agent I think reported that " Townsend Brown had flashes of brilliance" and I think we see that in the posts that have been offered here. (Of course, actually, I see that in ALL of the messages that we get, but currently Trickfox, Mikado and Andrew have just taken ccenter stage in bending my mind a little bit more!)

You guys have all been trumped though with Neenies wonderful flash months ago. Remember? After the long and sort of technical discussion that we all (except Mikado hadn't joined us yet!) had about the pea in the ocean and all the studies of probability and parallel dimensions, I know there were technical names for all of those theories, but forgive me Trickfox, they are not at the tip of my tongue! All of those thoughts were wonderful, if sometimes difficult to follow. Victoria complained, I remember, that Trickfox had left her in the dirt, after a wild mental ride! (thats cowgirl I think for finally getting bucked off!!!( It was exhilarating to read and challenging and we got pretty far out there! And then Neenie came along with the pure question " But , what if a fish eats it?"

I still smile at that! Pretty much shows us right off that however clever we think we are ( and humans ARE) there is still a force out there that is going to continue on its own particular way, whether we have taken that into consideration or not. for all our "figuring" and theorizing and planning.

So thats my only comment. I think that you are all brilliant! (Just now actually realizing how brilliant you are meant to be!) And thats wonderful!

But it is good to remain as humble about it as possible. Remember the fish is still out there!

Elizabeth
Mark Culpepper
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Forbidden Planet

Post by Mark Culpepper »

Are all of you out there too young to remember a Science Fiction film named " The Forbidden Planet?"

I barely remember the story itself but I do remember that a crew of a crashed saucer were facing some sort of dangerous force outside of their ship, they put up a barrier for it and then they discovered later that what they were "seeing" was the "manifestation" of their own worst fears.

So maybe mankind right now is getting ready somehow to step into a different phase of their development. Part of that might be the ability to recognize that the "monsters" that we have out there are really a result of our own manifestation? And that the good things out there will also be the result of those manifestations? But you can't get there from where we are now if you don't realize that situation is part of our actual reality. Right now very few people would actually see that possibility.

I agree with Trickfox that this is a highly personal and individual journey. We all have to look into our own mirrors for the answer. Any other movement has the potential to turn into a false journey where the leaders take the followers where THEY want to go. Am I making any sense?

So going back to the classroom. I used to tell my students not to bother looking over at the work the student next to them is doing. Ultimately that won't help him. He has to pay attention to his own page and do his own work. Mark C.
Victoria Steele
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sheep on a hill

Post by Victoria Steele »

I just wanted to share a sight that I saw not long ago. Now this was in the San Diego area so you can properly put expensive cars and big yuppie houses in your view. But then I noticed something that was, as Elizabeth would say, an anomaly.

There was an undeveloped expanse of golden hills facing the roadway. And on it there was a mob of sheep. (Really, honest, thats what ranchers call them. Herds of sheep are called mobs.) OK ,so that drew my attention.

I know just a little bit about sheep. I know particularly that they are not the smartest animals in the world and they DEFINITELY prefer to be together and not separated. Which is what makes tending them a little easier than cows, or , heaven forbid, horses.

So here in this urban environment was a mob of sheep on a hillside. I saw the dog first, hunkered down in the tall grass. quietly watching for some sheep that was going past his mental line. And then I spotted the shepherd further up the hill. Just quietly sitting, warm sun on his back. For a moment I was jealous. I know that he had moved the mob there and was waiting out their grazing time and later as the sun would get lower he would move them again to their evening grazing spot, probably further away from the highway and better sheltered. Just he and the dog. And there must have been hundreds of the woolie beasties.

And suddenly I thought. (No detrimental view of humans but I sure saw the similarities) There we all were folks. Happily munching together, side by side. I thought in this parallel world who the dog would have been? Angel? Messenger? guardian? some here on this post have called him a "Centurian." (A couple of strides away from a wolf) .... and effective for crowd control? And the quiet shepherd on the hill. What was he thinking, I wonder? Just wierd thoughts.

Still working on my reply Andrew but I think that Elizabeth has posted an important viewpoint. We automatically look past the folks who honor nature primarily. (because they don't "fit" in our modern Christian ethic.) Wouldn't THEY be the ones to put up front if you were dealing with an entity that was earth nurtured? I'd vote for the people that obviously are already in communication with other dimensions. How do these "remote viewers" explain what they do? Get one of those guys!

Hey, BUT if something actually comes in from "outer space" we are all on our own and all equally inept probably in making any kind of a positive impression. Maybe even the discussion of "who whould be the representative? is just our own in -the-box -silly. Victoria
Mikado14
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perspective

Post by Mikado14 »

A little boy in the country was in class one day. The teacher was teaching math and mentioned that C was equal to Pi R squared. A little boy raised his hand and the teacher said, "What is it Billy?". His reply was "Teacher, that's not right, Pi R round, cornbread R square."

See my Point?

Mikado
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy
Trickfox
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Re: impressed also

Post by Trickfox »

Elizabeth Helen Drake wrote:Remember the fish is still out there!

Elizabeth
Yes,.... I know it will nip at my butt from now on but I'm still willing to move forward with the approval of those I call my friends.
A couple of hours in the lab with Mikado, Andrew, and others and we would all be living some fine time intervals together.
Trickfox
The psychopropulsier (as pointed out in the book The Good-bye man by Linda Brown and Jan Lofton) is a Quantum entanglement project under development using Quantum Junctions. Join us at http://www.Peeteelab.com
Annemarie
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Well, since you asked

Post by Annemarie »

Paul,

Couldn't stay quiet.

Some of you may remember that I have some knowledge of the "remote viewing" situation.

It interests me Andrew when you started this post that you were sort of in defense of the Christian point of view. I guess thats a relatively new situation for many Christians to find yourselves in.

You asked for other viewpoints and other religions to step up.

What would a Pagan say to your questions?

First of all maybe I should take a moment and give everybody a chance to say " Didn't all the Pagans convert when the obviously better religion of Christianity came along?" in a simple answer. No.

And when I mention "Pagan" please do not associate it automatically with the word "Heathen." I would suggest that is a word reserved for someone who happens not to be a member of whatever religion it is that someone else is. To a Christian a Pagan is a "heathen" ... to an Arab .... a Christian is a Heathen.

So maybe I will just put that out there for a moment. Give everybody a chance to realize that I am serious about this. I realize that a Pagans viewpoint is going to be different (obviously) than any other monotheistic religion. But I doubt that many of you would know just how different. When you don't subscribe to the idea of the battle of good over evil, or in fact of the existence of "evil" . And when a person may recognize the possibility of Jesus existing as a wise man but does not at all "buy into" the idea of his dying for humanitys "sins" .... then the force of the "salvation arguments loses all of its punch.

So do you REALLY want a Pagans viewpoint? Annemarie
Last edited by Annemarie on Wed Nov 01, 2006 8:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Paul S.
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Re: Well, since you asked

Post by Paul S. »

(and since the post was directed to me...)
Annemarie wrote:So do you REALLY want a Pagans viewpoint?
I don't quite get the question. It seems to fall out of its own context.

Are you offering to share "a Pagan's viewpoint," or merely questioning why anybody would want to entertain such a perspective?

If the former, then, by all means, fire away.

If the latter, then, why on Earth not?

--PS
Paul Schatzkin
aka "The Perfesser"
"At some point we have to deal with the facts, not what we want to believe is true." -- Jack Bauer
Annemarie
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in context

Post by Annemarie »

Paul,

this is the context that I tried to be in but I guess I fell out of! You know thats easy for me to do, like the bright fish leaping from one place to another, trying to describe cows! this is the question Andrew asked "So I ask you, Grinder, Mark, Trickfox, Elizabeth, Victoria, and all of the others here, to answer similar questions Victoria asked me:

1) "Lets just say that another intelligence presented itself to you. How would you regard it, falling back on your beliefs? If it does not appear to you as being "human," how would that affect your viewpoint?

(Being HUMAN is not a requirement for an equal footing relationship with me. And I meant “equal footingâ€
Victoria Steele
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mental smoke tests

Post by Victoria Steele »

Paul,

I just ran across a message from grinder on another post which I think belongs here too. viewtopic.php?p=2570#2570

It really does belong here because, as he says, its HIS two cents worth and gee, if I combine what Annemarie has said above ( and I loved it, by the way) we might just get some REAL money going on here! This is what grinder said hmmmmmm September 25th, so it was not that long ago. Note how he comes right back around to a mention of "conciousness". Worth reading again (you've done well grinder, into your second printing already! Victoria

"You know, I have watched this discussion. Here is my two cents worth.

We don't know what true conciousness is. We don't know what intelligence actually is. We don't know if anything from outside helps in that process or if is ours alone. We just don't know.

Sooooo. Each one of us has contributions. And they might be close to the absolute truth of the matter, or far away. But its the process of talking and thinking that makes the difference.

So IF Dr. Brown was in some sort of communications with "something else" He (and IT, maybe) would have to deal with our current state of understanding. I expect that he might surround himself with people who were interested in the nature of "conciousness' as well as science. Maybe I am out on a limb here but I just remembered some of those remote viewing tests at stanford. They talked about conciousness studies too

Maybe someday there will be a breakthrough of understanding. But until then, if thats actually what might be happening, I sure enjoy watching you guys think. Sort of like mental smoke tests. grinder

Yeah, mental smoke tests. Thats why LindaB and I are going to go shopping! Its a deal Linda. That is ... if I can actually make the trip. Still up in the air. Wish I was a more quantum individual. Then I COULD be in two places at the same time. again, Victoria
Trickfox
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Re: spirit guides

Post by Trickfox »

grinder wrote:Dr. Jordan,

Your statement that a "spirit guide" leads to satanism?

Do I take that to mean that you automatically assume, for example, that Native American belief in a "spirit guide" toward good is ... unfounded? Or perhaps misguided?

Whether or not I agree with your stand, I believe I owe it to you to ask for a clarification of what you actually meant by that statement. grinder

Wow,.... I see an interesting eye to eye challenge here between two polar bears, or am I just imagining here. Mr Twigsnapper what do you make of this?
The psychopropulsier (as pointed out in the book The Good-bye man by Linda Brown and Jan Lofton) is a Quantum entanglement project under development using Quantum Junctions. Join us at http://www.Peeteelab.com
Trickfox
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oops

Post by Trickfox »

Then I COULD be in two places at the same time. again,
Victoria
¸<
Your ghost is showing dear. :lol: :oops:
The psychopropulsier (as pointed out in the book The Good-bye man by Linda Brown and Jan Lofton) is a Quantum entanglement project under development using Quantum Junctions. Join us at http://www.Peeteelab.com
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