Chapter 32: Reflections on Biscayne Bay

Use this section for any discussion specifically related to the chapters posted online of the unfolding biography, "Defying Gravity: The Parallel Universe of T. Townsend Brown
Elizabeth Helen Drake
Sr. Research Asst.
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going forward, not back

Post by Elizabeth Helen Drake »

Everybody again,

Still considering this time travel possibility. Dr. Brown seemed to suggest that there was some sort of a natural barrier to keep the past the past ...... which leaves the present and then, the future.(if I am allowed to stay on a linear path)

Consider this. Place yourself on that dusty road of time (don't know why I hold on to that image, sometimes I wonder where I get this stuff ... but I see somehow an ancient caravan road ... dunno why ... Pick your own vision ..... anyway .... Say there was a baracade behind you. No going back .... only forward .... but then something magical happens where you can BOTH be where you ARE AND you can be in the future. The future hasn't happened yet .... the possibilities are endless. And if you were to go ahead ...... then would you be able to leave "markers" for your original self as that individual walks along that road of time. You are ahead ... you can moderate the fate of that person (you) on the trail. Heres the good question ..... as you as the original person walks along .... can you feel the presence of that other person .... that quantum future person?

How does that feeling manifest itself? Maybe in the "hiccup " that Trickfox mentions .... the deja vu feeling that you have been somewhere before (of course, YOU HAVE)

How could all of this happen? Possibly because if you are operating in a quantum situation IT WOULD BE POSSIBLE TO BE IN TWO PLACES AT THE SAME TIME.......... I'll take a moment while you hit your head against the wall a few times ..... thats what I used to do ...... uh, still do.

In all of this seriousness. SMILE. pass around the aspirins .... and keep talking with each other. We are all learning so much and we all have so much to teach each other.

Other thoughts? Elizabeth
Trickfox
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Pass the aspirins again

Post by Trickfox »

Elizabeth Helen Drake wrote:a giant onion, with the outside peel knowing the least. And sometimes each layer of onion skin doesn't even recognize the fact that there is another more hidden than it, right beside it. Elizabeth
:twisted:

Some times when you know the least, you have the most control over others!!!!

I would like to point out the multidimensional aspect of this phenomena which resembles the link between Macrospacial singularities (endless space) and Microspacial singularities (infinite smallness) and the fact that; from an observer's point of view there seems to allways be absolute symetry in the phenomena. In the Controlling Unknowns, it seems possible that People are both controlled and they are not controlled by unknowns. By the very same symetry are the same individuals controlling some and not controlling others. Any such combination of choice can exist at any level. Imagine the immense possibility of these symetric viewpoints.

Under such scenarios I could be deceiving some of you while convincing others of "possible truth" so that I can acheive some "goal" that I wished to acheive while being "controlled" by a "religious belief" which may have been created by, and orchestrated by an "intelligence agency" to affect a "political base" of voters to elect some "president" of the United states who "says he belives" in God while placating his sheep because he may really be a "a Satanist" who thinks that "Satan himself may be really be in control of the Earth", while not really understanding that satanism may just be a "Natural" "left hand path" of intelligent extraterrestrial design which controls human overpopulation by promoting genocide and war to acheive such goals which may really be controlled by citizen of our own future. (this may be fiction folks) (or not)

In the end, "What is it that I'm saying?" that has anything to do with "Nature's way of doing things". It seems that the two are related but seperated by six degrees of seperation at every point.

It appears to be an "onion opinion", but you can't see it "whole" because you are stuck inside the actual layers, and when you look for "origins" you find only "opposites".

Mathematical first order logic seems to indicate that "Only when you can conceive 1+I=2" rather than 1+1=2 that many thinking indiduals begin to realize that the only cardinality that counts is quantum calculus.

Here is exactly what I'm trying to crack: :roll:
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Image

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The only question I have: Does anyone out there understand this ragingly insane first order logic principle. :(
I am trying to understand peano logic but I get stuck with Goëdel's theorem and "the Notion" that "Russell" probably argued with "Whitehead" on this very topic as "co-authors" of "Principia Mathematica" (modern edition). By the way folks, I figure "Someone" in this forum will eventually get interested enough to help me find the answer so don't worry about commenting on this post if you rather want to know more about how Morgan gets along with Linda.

Besides it's likely to be related anyway, right? :D
The psychopropulsier (as pointed out in the book The Good-bye man by Linda Brown and Jan Lofton) is a Quantum entanglement project under development using Quantum Junctions. Join us at http://www.Peeteelab.com
Victoria Steele
Mysterious Redhead
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Decoder rings

Post by Victoria Steele »

Hey Trickfox,

With all the respect that is in my heart for you, Its just no fair! You are speaking in code and none of us have decoder rings! I appreciate that you need someone to bounce mathematical ideas off of .... so I PLEAD with someone out there who is as passionate about Math as our man Trickfox PLEASE HELP. Whoever has a decoder ring who can match up with Trickfox ... Please step forward!

And I know its a language and it is probably talking about what we are talking about here ..... but damn Trickfox .... I am just trying to hold my brain together here a little bit and you are like ....... overcharging it! I'll end up going John Nash on you and that'll fix you!

So Back to Linda and Morgan .... where its safe and snuggly and sexy and warm. I just want to stay there for awhile. I know its not going to last, but I like it there right now.

So my single question for the night is ............. Josephine must have liked Morgan too but, would she have known that Dr. Brown had told Morgan that Linda had to be kept in the dark? Her comment to Linda stuck in my mind for some reason "He will probably break your heart". So . Did she know that this wonderful romance was doomed from the start? How could she watch her daughter being so in love .... and know that? In fact, how could Dr. Brown let his daughter fall in love with Morgan and then lure him into a profession where he knew they would not be together. Jeeze ... now that bugs me! How could he do that to her? Victoria
Martin Calloway
Junior Birdman
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Notebooks?

Post by Martin Calloway »

She NEEDS not to know. Is entirely different to me than "Don't tell her" and the way Morgan phrased that sentence, being VERY careful to say it EXACTLY the way that it was said.

So, even though it looks like Dr. Brown may have been involving Morgan into something that might (might?) get dangerous .... He was "keeping his daughter out of it." because thats something that he realized then ..... she NEEDED.

How much of that was influenced by Josephine? who I expect by now (they had been married since what 28? Thirty six years? I think she probably knew as much of the score as she could learn on a "NEED TO KNOW" BASIS. Just from "time in grade" education. Brings a whole new slant to that phrase "NEED TO KNOW" right? Martin
Martin Calloway
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now the "no notebooks" makes sense

Post by Martin Calloway »

Oh, one other thing. I meant to mention this before. Now the "missing notebooks" make sense. I would have to look again but I believe that the "notebooks" that Dr. Brown was credited with began in 1955?

His first mention is that of a man named Jessup. How very strange is that?

but then ..... for some still unknown reason .... he lets an enormous nine year gap develop with those notebooks. What years? I believe it was from 1958(?) to 1967. Nine years of silence? Silence on one hand .....

And William Stephenson in his life?
What the heck was this man doing? Martin
Janoshek
Space Cadet
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Time travel and puppets.

Post by Janoshek »

Do we really know what time is? In an explanation of some of Einstein's Relativity it was said that time is really a man made device to measure the space between events. Such as his scenario of being on the train with the telegraph poles flashing by. As each pole went by it was an event.
As for Elizabeth's statement about puppets. Orwellian philosophy has probably always been going on. Even before a certain writer took the pen name Orwell.
Trickfox
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Re: Time travel and puppets.

Post by Trickfox »

Janoshek wrote:Do we really know what time is? .
Can I answer that for you?
The psychopropulsier (as pointed out in the book The Good-bye man by Linda Brown and Jan Lofton) is a Quantum entanglement project under development using Quantum Junctions. Join us at http://www.Peeteelab.com
Elizabeth Helen Drake
Sr. Research Asst.
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welcome

Post by Elizabeth Helen Drake »

Welcome to the discussion Janoshek! Looking forward to your input and your questions! Elizabeth
Paul S.
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Re: Time travel and puppets.

Post by Paul S. »

Hey, look who's here! The REAL instigator!
Janoshek wrote:Do we really know what time is? In an explanation of some of Einstein's Relativity it was said that time is
Maybe a better question would be "do we really need to know what time it is?

I mean, what does it matter, unless the time is 11:59 on Humanity's cosmic clock?

--PS
Paul Schatzkin
aka "The Perfesser"
"At some point we have to deal with the facts, not what we want to believe is true." -- Jack Bauer
Trickfox
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Re: welcome

Post by Trickfox »

Elizabeth Helen Drake wrote:Welcome to the discussion Janoshek! Looking forward to your input and your questions! Elizabeth
Indeed; "until you came along" I had never heard of Charles Drake :roll:

While participating in a nationwide war-bond drive, three rowdy war heroes-Collins, Shakespeare (Don Defore) and Handsome Janoshek (Charles Drake)-elect to have as much fun as possible, which translates to an endless supply of wine, women and song. The three carousers are guided on their tour by pretty Ivy Hotchkiss (Lizabeth Scott), with whom Collins falls deeply and genuinely in love. But Ivy is harboring a dark secret, resulting in unforseen tragedy. Though critics commented that Lizabeth Scott was obviously hired for pictures because of her resemblance to Lauren Bacall, to a man they were impressed by her multilayered performance in this elaborately produced three-hanky romantic drama.
The psychopropulsier (as pointed out in the book The Good-bye man by Linda Brown and Jan Lofton) is a Quantum entanglement project under development using Quantum Junctions. Join us at http://www.Peeteelab.com
Trickfox
The Magician
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Re: Time travel and puppets.

Post by Trickfox »

Paul S. wrote: I mean, what does it matter, unless the time is 11:59 on Humanity's cosmic clock?

--PS
Paul it's 10:59 if in you're in "Easter Standards Time" Buddy

Trickfox.

BTW music is comming along fine. You will have a BLAST when you hear it. It's remix of all kinds of stuff. some of it is naturally stochastic and very soothing.
The psychopropulsier (as pointed out in the book The Good-bye man by Linda Brown and Jan Lofton) is a Quantum entanglement project under development using Quantum Junctions. Join us at http://www.Peeteelab.com
Victoria Steele
Mysterious Redhead
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Joined: Mon Feb 20, 2006 7:06 am

Getting back to the lovers

Post by Victoria Steele »

Paul,

I really appreciate the extra posts so we can go into an appropriate one when the discussion seems to warrent it. Me, I like staying with the story of the two lovers in Florida ... and I loved the title for this last chapter by the way.

I had a couple of thoughts.

About going back in time. Say you WERE allowed to change a tragedy, say Morgan went back and changed the fact that his sister had died in that pool. He said that his entire family life after that was devastated, that his Mother blamed everybody, that he separated himself from them because of the constant fighting (and they also lost thier "standing" in the community because of that ).... so for Morgan it was "hit the road jack" until his father finally reached out to him and convinced him to come home ... for his own good, if not for the familys. Did I get that about right?

Say, the sister lived. The household might have stayed together, the standing in community would have continued to mean something to Morgan. His grandparents place, if Main Line, was gorgeous .... I have visited the Philadelphia older suburbs ... gorgeous .... so Morgan would have been just one of those "Main Line kids" ...... sort of like Lindas first boyfriend?

So when she was in the library .... saying hello to her old friends .... the books? Would he have even been there? Probably not. He commented that she had picked up a copy of something by James Joyce. Would he have been interested at all in the strange words of that master? Probably not.

And EVEN IF some kind of chemistry had struck up between them while he was in that class with her. Would it have lasted? Why would she look at him? He would have just been another handsome athletic guy. There were plenty of those in that school then, I am sure. He would have been like everybody else. (Not that there is anything AT ALL WRONG WITH THAT) BUT FOR SOME REASON .... THAT WAS NOT WHAT HER HEART WAS LOOKING FOR .... Now catch what I am saying here folks because otherwise I will be out here on my own ..... she NEEDED TO FIND WHAT MORGAN WAS. AND HER HEART WAS LOOKING FOR HIM. NOBODY ELSE. He was the right person, in the right place, at the right time.

And when Dr. Brown said to Morgan " She NEEDS not to know" I think that he was referring to that kind of mystical interaction with "something else."

Hellooo out there. Whatever made him the person Morgan was ..... was still operating in his life and Dr. Brown KNEW IT.

I am coming to appreciate just how much that man must have known. And at that moment, talking to Morgan in the Cadillac ..... when he said " She NEEDS not to know " He KNEW what the future was going to be. There I said it. evidence enough for me .... that when he said "In YOUR LIFETIME ..... he did not actually mean it would not be in HIS own lifetime. Perhaps he already was experiencing it. HE ALREADY KNEW WHAT THE FUTURE WAS GOING TO BE FOR MORGAN. AND HIS DAUGHTERS LIFE WAS NOT INTENDED TO BE A PART OF IT. AT LEAST, NOT IN THE WAY THEY MIGHT HAVE THOUGHT OF ....... OK. I'll go back to my corner now. Victoria
Victoria Steele
Mysterious Redhead
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don't understand the math

Post by Victoria Steele »

Not in my corner for long ...... and Trickfox .... I just wanted you to know that I reread your last long message .... and I get it now ..... I may not understand the math .... but I think I do finally get what you have been saying. Its a fingerprint of what is Reality. Am I right? ... (and even that is funny to me now ..... because even saying Am I right? puts me in that box ..... because it is right AND left , isn't it?

I thought about Josephine in all of this. But she is the counterpart to Dr. Brown. SHE WAS MEANT TO BE THERE FOR HIM ... she was part of the design of how this all worked ..... and is working ..... am I right? There are equalities in everything ..... Its a two sided system .... One loop going one way, another loop going the other, balancing each other.

OK .... going to go back in my corner now. Promise. No more from me for awhile. Victoria

Paul, do you think that there is any possibility that Linda might contact me? If I ask really nicely? I suddenly have questions I think that only she could answer. Victoria
Elizabeth Helen Drake
Sr. Research Asst.
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NEEDS

Post by Elizabeth Helen Drake »

Paul and everyone,

I took a few moments this nice Sunday and reread carefully the posts on this particular section. I encourage others to do what I have done. Just start at Pauls announcement of the posting of Chapter 31 .... and then read carefully. Notice the thread of conversation, NEEDS.

NEEDS .... thats what vibrates through the entire line of discussion.

Dr. Brown saying to Morgan ..... "She NEEDS not to know"

And then the phrase ....."Need to know basis" ..... and I looked at Trickfoxs message again and like Victoria, it finally hit me that there were two systems at work here. The need to know ..... verses the ..... needs NOT to know ..... but it was the same intelligent design ......

I was talking to a brilliant scientist yesterday and he mentioned that there was a possibility that he might have problems with the "head" of his department in the future demanding explainations on his work .... after all ... the guy is writing the paychecks .... but this scientist is well aware that the work that he is now in .... has future and amazing consequences and perhaps the details of that work just should not be handed out to everybody...............

"Look" he said............." I can explain up to a point but after that he will not understand ..... and when we get past his point of understanding .... THEN HE DOESN'T NEED TO KNOW."

Now think about that! I think thats where Townsend Brown also found himself. He knew things that he could not possibly explain to people, because that knowledge was so far ahead of their level of understanding that they could not even see it ..... so they had no NEED TO KNOW.

Even his own daughter was in that situation. There were apparently things that she could not possibly have understood at the time. Trying to bring her "into the fold" that was developing then between Morgan, Mr. X and Townsend Brown ....... would have been an impossibility. A teacher can not teach until a student is ready to learn. And at that point .... Morgan was in the right place at the right time with the right people .... just as was said before. But the timing was not right for others. Its all about timing sometimes I think. ..... and just as Janoshek made note .... time is just a notation of events ........... sometimes one thing has to happen before another. Gabriel said it was a cloth being woven and I like that visual.

Comments? Elizabeth
Janoshek
Space Cadet
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A theory of time.

Post by Janoshek »

I once read somewhere that every event that has happened, happens and will happen all occurs in the same instant. It implys a compression of reality. If reality can be compressed it can also be expanded such as turning a solid into a liquid and a liquid into a gas.
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