Keeping Secrets and Leaks

[Martin Calloway]

Trickfox,

Yes, indeed I prefer brown suits. Actually the tweedy kind ... a little worn around the edges works well enough.

I may have told you that when I was much younger I worked in a "mailroom" where messages came in and had to be sorted according to where they were going and who they belonged to .... in that sort of situation they created "coups" where you threw all those messages .... and thats why I opened this particular post. Fun watching it fill up, right?

And I have to say I have enjoyed watching your responses, as well as the others. I just don't have anything to add right now! Martin

[Elizabeth Helen Drake]

Mark,

recently you responded to a comment by Trickfox , I think that Paul had answered " a guestion with a question" .... and you said that was nearly "classic CIA in nature."

(I figure you probably deduced that by your experiences with your father and your brother who you have said were in intelligence work.)

So you will appreciate this little story told by Linda Brown. I guess this was later in their relationship... and an arguement was underway .... she finally raged at Morgan in desperation ....."WHY DO YOU ALWAYS ANSWER A QUESTION WITH A QUESTION??????" .......and he responded with a smile ...."DO I DO THAT?" Elizabeth

[Trickfox]

http://www.fas.org/irp/nsa/yeates-ufo.pdf

Paul, Elizabeth, Mark, Madison all of you

This is a very interesting puzzle. You can scan the documents and try a statistical match up with any words to put just before the word "communication" but try putting the word "Electrogravitic" or "Internet" or "Radio", or "telephone" in front wherever it shows up in the censored document in the link shown here.

Something very interesting happens.

[Annemarie]

So now that the story has gotten far enough along where it is obvious that Josephine Brown was probably in this "intelligence network" as somebody called it, did she absolutely keep that secret for the rest of her life?

Can you imagine if she kept a diary, how interesting that might have been?

I read earlier that Paul said Linda Brown did not know that her Mom and Dad were divorced in the late thirties. That just seems strange that would have been kept from her for so long. I mean, I know that divorce was not quite the almost nonchalant thing that it seems today, but still, I am assuming that family was VERY close.

Josephine must have had a very good reason not to tell Linda .

And I am assuming that she never told her that she had counseled Morgan to either marry her, or leave her behind. Now thats an interesting secret to keep from your own daughter.

And Dr. Brown told Morgan pretty much to keep Linda out of the loop of things that were happening in his life. Again, thats interesting.

In a way, it doesn't seem fair. He is cutting away from his own daughter the one person that she could have probably have shared much with. After all, how many men would even halfway understand what their life was all about?

I just wondered if Linda ever got angry with her folks for keeping those secrets? Ammemarie

[Victoria Steele]

You know Paul, Sometimes you write stuff that is just meant to be reread. Even by yourself. I am not going to copy it, cause thats too easy and you all need to see again the context in which it is written but look through this post site again and see your own answer to Trickfoxs question . "PAUL, WHO ARE YOU WRITING THIS BOOK FOR?" Don't forget your answer because I thought it was excellent.

And maybe you can come up with as precise an answer for "Why are you writing this book?"

And then of course there is the publishers constant refrain ...." Why now?"

(I have been around the block so I know the questions. Do you have acceptable answers for them yet? Its a public face Paul. As much as you might hate to have them at the tip of your lips .... its important to have valid well thought out answers for your, I am sure will be , adoring public.)

Who was it though, who wisely said ....." I don't have fans ..... I have customers." The reality also. I think you will manage to have both. Victoria

[Chris Knight]

Annemarie,

I had to make a comment on my impression of Mrs. Brown (Josephine). I went out to California to visit with the Brown's in 1987 (I think), and I'd sit out under the front tree and study or read. That was the first time I had visited, and I believe it was the only time I had a chance to meet her.

I stayed a few weeks, and I remember how really quiet and reserved she was. I can definitely believe that she would have been a great choice for any intelligence work.

Andrew

[Victoria Steele]

Andrew,

I really envy you that you had an opportunity to meet Josephine Brown. Don't you wish that you had known about her past then. What questions you might have had for her. But I doubt that you would have gotten any answers. I can picture that she might have smiled and said something like .... "Andrew, why do you ask?" Would the question have been just idle curiosity? In which case I don't think that it would have been worth answering for her. Why bother. But if it was a heartfelt and intelligent question I wonder if she would have said something about her past. Problem is , as I see it there was just SO MUCH TO SAY and maybe not enough time to say it all. Scant comfort to Linda maybe but perhaps thats the reason she just didn't say anything. There was just too much to say and maybe the time wasn't right.

Or this is a strange thought that struck me this weekend as I was shoveling ashes at the remains of that big fire. I kept finding bits and pieces in the ashes. Things that had survived the heat and the flames. We would put all of those things on a table for the owner. Now thats a little bit like what Josephines life was like I think. Nothing but seemingly ashes left, but still there were bits and pieces left for the owner of the property. In this case I think it must be Linda. Their only daughter, I think that Paul said. She is the rightful owner and the only one that would recognize what has been left behind in the ashes. And in a way, maybe Josephine knew all of this and thats why it was easier for her to remain the quiet lady that you met Andrew. If she did not trust in the future, and a young man interested in her husbands work showed up at her door .... if she did not trust that the truth would somehow find its way to the surface, she would have been all over you I think Andrew, telling you as much as she could before the "flames hit" sort of speaking. These people in the house I was visiting were lucky, their house stood but the owner had thrown as much as she could grab into tubs to save them from the flame. Wouldn't Josephine have done that? Does anybody know what I am trying to say here. To me ... the fact that she remained silent, knowing that death was probably quite near, she still trusted that someone would eventually come along and recognize the pieces of the story from the ashes.

think earlier in this post I ranted on about how some people actually can and do "take their secrets with them" when they pass away. I just wonder how many secrets Josephine may have known about, how many interesting people she had the opportunity to meet, how many situations she may have watched develop. Yet I really believe she took most of that with her. But she also knew that someone someday would know.

My "in the ashes" revelation . Strange how some images come into your brain.

So, it strikes me that this book is not only about Townsend Brown but about Josephine as well and also maybe about all the other women involved in that same kind of work who were prepared to keep secrets to the end of their life .... and beyond.

And I wondered. What sort of personality does it really take to be the kind of woman that could enter a life like that? Look at the lifestyle that Josephine was willing to share with her husband, how much courage would it take I wonder to even come close to matching that? Victoria

[twigsnapper]

After the attack on Pearl Harbor the United States greatly enclarged its intelligence capabilities and with the approach of D day in Europe everything in Washington was revised and enlarged. Three new Directorates of Military Intelligence were introduced. For Administration, Information and Intelligence, the last included a "reseach unit", a section dubbed the "Reports branch" and a ragtag army of what was termed then "Specialists"

As D day drew closer the flow of information became a flood but was handled a little better than before. After July 1944 it became known as the "Magic European Summary" .... the interesting ratio as Paul will recognize, was 90% to 10%. Ninety percent coming from the Ultra connections, ten percent coming from standard intelligence.

So when you get a chance someday to watch "Enigma" watch too for the lady operator who asks ...." What we are doing here is important, isn't it sir? I mean, all we ever hear is bleeping, flipping forever bleeping. We are making a difference aren't we sir.?" His answer was ...."Yes ... it is important, and yes, you are making a difference."

And I guess that is some of the answer to your question Victoria. In this kind of life you might never actually know what it is that you are doing but something inside you has to give you the green light. Something has to tell you that it is important work and it will make a difference.

And as far as qualifications. The criteria, to use a path beaten bunch of qualities ..... a person should possess:
analytical ability, scholarship, imagination and the judgement to temper that. In all, the quality of your mind is the most important.
In Josephines case and in her honor I would offer the qualities of heart and courage.

twigsnapper

[ladygrady]

Mr. Twigsnapper,

I just left a message on another section of this forum which asked the question .....ASSUMING that the little X sub you were familiar with DID NOT SINK WITH ALL HANDS .... then what did she do after that? Is that all still in the dark? Why would that be? Its been so many years now, surely the families of those listed men should know the truth if it is different than what they have been told.

But then, are families EVER told the truth about how their loved ones died when it comes to this kind of lifestyle? Can you answer any part of this? grady

[twigsnapper]

grady,

No dear, families are not told. Usually the phrase that is used is "died in a "training exercise". Twigsnapper

[grinder]

Mr. Twigsnapper,

Besides the possibilities of a couple of "phantom subs" out there, How many other countries had these X subs? Surely England wasn't the first to consider their value. I thought I heard about a small sub off of Pearl Harbor which had been discovered before that attack. Any body help me out htere. Just curious to know if the Japanese had mini subs,

And hoiw many X subs were built? How many survive ? Besides the Tirpitz damage, were they ever able to account for themselves in any sort of action? Very interesting stuff. grinder

[Elizabeth Helen Drake]

Just making the note here that there is a new post site up called "unveiling secrets" which is a continuation of this site. Please feel free to respond to either! thanks! Elizabeth

[Elizabeth Helen Drake]

Don't get your hopes up. Its a play on words. I am being silly.

I wondered why Mr. Twigsnapper led us all so carefully through that strangely connected .... Bob Marley ... concrete company ... Decker fight with his concrete suppliers ... the , looks like to me, deal to put Dr. Brown in Philadelphia under his own conditions... in some kind of exchange for ... I am not sure yet but I am confident Paul is hot on the trail.

But then I thought . Concrete. Mr. twigsnapper has mentioned that word more than once, so today when I ran across information about spy planes looking for "concrete plants " ..... I stopped short.

Apparently in 1958 and later it became a concern when a country ordered large amounts of concrete from any one source, or set up facilities to produce the concrete. I never thought much about that but Mr. Twigsnapper was quick to say that in the intelligence game you look for the tell tale signs of certain activities that would support ..... for example ... a nuclear program .... and with that he said they would go " thick and deep" and all concrete .... and that sort of activity is generally noticed. "Well" he said " If you are awake"

And then I wondered, If Sir William Stephenson knew ahead of time that would be one of the perameters of a blooming program in the next few years, would it not make sense to position himself in the concrete business? Yes, to me , that makes sense. People in the same buisness, especially if it is a global concern would certainly be in the right place at the right time. Hard to keep things secret in the same business circles. And who else was in business with him ? General William Donovan. Gee .... am I the only one beginning to see a connection with the CIAs intelligence gathering operation? Connections certainly of interest? Or is it just me?

Twigsnapper also was kind enough to let me know that it was all a "learning process in the early years with the U2 overflights. dtc." But they had already learned the signatures of underground building during the war with Germany , especially when Germany tried to put much of its important factories " underground". "You find a pile of dirt or dirt trucks moving around alot ..... something is being dug somewhere.

I put these comments in the keeping secrets section here because I couldn't figure where else to put it and it was too interesting not to throw it out there to see if someone else has a comment. Elizabeth

[Victoria Steele]

This is a great thread, by the way, I just read through it . Notice that it is over a year old, most of the messages. I encourage all of you to read though it carefully. Notice Mr. Twigsnappers wise and scholarly comments. Jeeze, I wish I knew Half of what he must know.

Anyway! Jumping back into this conversation now with my own observation. Think nature. Look down. When you see an ant "hill". What does that mean? Precisely. So thats all that these spy planes were doing.

I had forgotten about that fire last year. I went up to help friends in that area called "Pioneertown". Their house had been spared but many of their neighbors lost everything so thats what my comments were based on for those who were removed from the story and couldn't figure out what the heck I was talking about when I mentioned retreiving things from the ashes. I still really do believe that I understand what Josephine might have been thinking toward the end of her life, more now than ever before.

We all have our romance stories! I was trying to move this honking big piece of ... I don't know what it had been, some sort of short metal beam or something. Everyone else was helping a big crane so I was trying to do that version all by myself and not being too sucessful at it and suddenly this big shadow blocked my sun. And this voice said. "Hello, can I help you with that?" And then this GORGEOUS MAN simply picked up the beam and walked off with it and I immediately thought .....MY HERO ...... ( and you all will be happy to note ... we are still together ... howzat?) Victoria

[Mikado14]

We all have our romance stories! I was trying to move this honking big piece of ... I don't know what it had been, some sort of short metal beam or something. Everyone else was helping a big crane so I was trying to do that version all by myself and not being too sucessful at it and suddenly this big shadow blocked my sun. And this voice said. "Hello, can I help you with that?" And then this GORGEOUS MAN simply picked up the beam and walked off with it and I immediately thought .....MY HERO ...... ( and you all will be happy to note ... we are still together ... howzat?) Victoria

So that is what calmed you down. But, ya'all gonna be good in that thar bar fight....ain't ya, Miz Vikki?

Mikado