Use this section for any discussion specifically related to the chapters posted online of the unfolding biography, "Defying Gravity: The Parallel Universe of T. Townsend Brown
Gregg what do those "Glassman Supply that is variable to 500KV" cost, roughly?
4. A plasma field will be created
How intriguing.
I've been watching the Thunderbolts DVD from that "electric universe" web site that Kevinb referenced recently. And it's all about plasma, plasma effects, and the pervasive nature of what they call the primary state of matter to all that we can perceive in the universe. And specifically their claim, which they go to great lengths to substantiate, that the electro-magnetic/plasma effects in the universe are far more important and more powerful--and self-evident--than the "gravity-based" theories of the cosmos. I can't help but think they are two sides of the same coin, given what we have been reading of TTB's life, work and theories.
5. Best propulsion was acheived in the winter when the air was denser and drier.
This is the same as the performance for the Lord Kelvin's Thunderstorm replication.
Elizabeth Helen Drake 'Bunker Hill minequestion': "And this is another question for the survivor the Bunker Hill mine! What if you are talking about a "pulsed" system?"
I never knew any specific details about the power system, except that several heavy duty automotive / marine ? batteries were used as the power source. After reading up on Tesla, Brown, and others it would seem a good bet a more sophisticated drive would be pulsed, but this device was just a proof of concept and pretty basic. The people who swam in the water next to it said it gave them a tingling feeling when they switched it on - the two foot conning tower was primarily there just to keep the on/off switch up out of the water. I don't remember exact dimensions: perhaps nine feet or so long by two or three feet wide. Half a mile of copper wire (unknown gauge) to wrap the toroid, and two large convex copper plates, one on either side, for the electrodes. Don't know what the voltage on the electrodes was, but someone who understands those things might be able to figure it out from the known characteristics of salt water and the fact swimmers only felt 'tingles'.
greggvizza 'EHD vs MHD': "I didn't see any of the Brown patents using coils or heavy gage conductors with high amperage, or superconductors, so I mentally grouped them in the electrostatic category."
First I'd just like to point out in passing that in your posts you consistently ignore the third axis of the electro-magnetic-vector triology. For someone engrossed in gravity studies I find this somewhat puzzling since when all is said and done gravity can be defined as a force which induces motion - but never mind. Tesla is reported saying later in his life something to the effect that he had abandoned large heavy generating equipment in favor of using 'natural' sources. Off hand I can't provide the exact quote or examples of what he was specifically referring to, but this is certainly a logical extension of what is being seen in plasma research and studies of the Electric Universe, as has been mentioned here. As you stated a flame jet can produce 15 mV with a high speed exhaust, it is obviously also generating quite a high magnetic field, so this is possible without any heavy machinery or conductors as such. The kicker of course is if the fields so generated have a geometry that is usable.
What might have a much better potential in this regards is again a toroid field of the kind you might see being generated by something like a Schauberger Repulsine disc. Most people seem to ignore the fact that Schauberger used copper and silver strategically placed in the flow channels of his designs. If a simple Kelvin water electrostatic generator can achieve 10k volts in a single stage just by dripping off a copper wire, just think of the voltages that can be achieved by a high speed fluid (air would do) flow constantly recirculating over copper electrodes. A toroidal vortex made up of high speed highly charged fluid molecules will generate not only a high voltage, but also a very large magnetic field without 'coils or heavy gage conductors'. This might even be a self-sustaining event as the energy is being collected from the surrounding environment. And as has been pointed out, the much ignored force vector component to a properly established toroidal electromagnetic field will naturally produce thrust parallel to its axis.
Elizabeth Helen Drake 'what would happen': To give a more proper response than I did previously, although in a purely speculative vein: if 15 mV were generated by a stable toroidal vortex, in the earth's atmosphere, with the proper geometries of electrical and magnetic fields it would produce at the minimum a heck of a corona, and might lead to the establishment of a sustained ion avalanche stream. Much of this would be drawn directly into the vortex itself, thus energizing it all the more; while some would probably be directed downwards due to the field's geometries and the effect of the A-field on charged particles (it is in specific cases where it interacts with charged particles that the force vector is refered to as the Lorenz force). By itself this would probably produce significant thrust; however, it is interesting to speculate that at that level of voltage, the field might consider everything in the immediate environment to be a 'charged' particle and therefore develop a correspondingly massive amount of thrust.
General: The main points I am trying to make is that Paul has seemingly uncovered a very important document which sheds light on the fundamental concepts of what Townsend Brown was researching when he talked about achieving gravity control. Inherent in this concept is a force vector component - which is what gravity is.
There is no inherent similar force vector component when dealing with either electrical or magnetic fields singly, except in regard to secondary effects involving interactions with electrical or magnetic fields existing in the environment.
It is only after Paul feels Townsend Brown's life went into 'deception' mode that Townsend Brown started promoting flying discs based on the effects of high voltage electrical fields. Was this all a deception or not? I think what Paul has uncovered about Townsend Brown's life indicates that it might very well have been just that.
Towsend Brown's letter urging further support of his research into a "novel arrangement of electric and magnetic fields" for a ship's propulsion system is potentially the smoking gun pointing the way to understanding what Townsend Brown's life and research was really all about. But do I know this for a fact? Not at all. All I know for sure is that because of Paul's efforts and hard work, I may now have the answer to a question that I first asked over forty years ago: who's the person responsible for figuring out how to build a toy submarine that can move without any moving parts. Everything else is just speculation on my part.
We bought our current one, used, on ebay, for $1000.00, from a laboratory surplus vendor.
I haven't yet begun a search for a 500kV unit, but I imagine that it will be in the same range.
Last edited by greggvizza on Fri Mar 30, 2007 12:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
I see the point that you are making and I agree with you. I tried to preface my previous comments but most of that drivel gets passed over. What the drivel stated was that I only make those generalizations as a way of mentally categorizing types of devices. I know its wrong, but I find the taxonomic order keeps things organized in my mind. Gravitc devices that I would mentally place in the magnetic category are the Cook Coil, and some of the Aquino devices. They both have windings. See how easy. Again, this is a very casual careless mental taxonomy tool and not to be taken so seriously. I am familiar with Vector Potentials, though, probably not to the extent that you are..
Also I have to be careful not to fall victim to my electrical engineering training. No one in college or later in industry even knew that Maxwell’s equations had been rewritten by Lorentz and Heaviside, and to a lesser extent by Hertz. Even if they did know, they could care less. These rewritten versions are the ones we were taught. They worked for what it is that we needed to accomplish, and that was that. It wasn’t until recently that I discovered Maxwell’s original versions and modern tensor methods for working them. I am not an expert in the original un-simplified Maxwell equations either, so any suggestions are definitely welcome.
H.Short wrote:It is only after Paul feels Townsend Brown's life went into 'deception' mode that Townsend Brown started promoting flying discs based on the effects of high voltage electrical fields. Was this all a deception or not? I think what Paul has uncovered about Townsend Brown's life indicates that it might very well have been just that.
Interesting thought. I always suspected that the Ionic Breese was a diversion, but I never thought the discs could also be.
I still want to test-drive one, to find out.
GV
Last edited by greggvizza on Sun May 13, 2007 1:09 am, edited 1 time in total.
Interesting observations from everybody here. a sort of wonderful mental reaction going on!
And I definitely find most of it way over my head! so I will stick to what I can see .... and I "see" two things here. The phrase " ' Deceptive Mode" and the other important thread " Diversion".
A little off the subject but sometimes things just strike me as particularly funny and I wanted to share one of those with you.
There is a new movie out soon , animated ..... fellow brings a Tyranosaurus Rex from the past into the future to do his bidding, though things don't always go well. One of the lines from the Rex is " I HAVE A BIG HEAD AND LITTLE ARMS, AND I'M NOT SURE HOW WELL THIS PLAN WAS THOUGHT THROUGH." When you happen to see that scene .... think particularly of me .... because that just makes me laugh out loud.
I'm not sure that has anything to do with anything but there ya are. Elizabeth
It is only after Paul feels Townsend Brown's life went into 'deception' mode that Townsend Brown started promoting flying discs based on the effects of high voltage electrical fields. Was this all a deception or not? I think what Paul has uncovered about Townsend Brown's life indicates that it might very well have been just that.
Interesting thought. I always suspected that the Ionic Breeze was a diversion, but I never thought the discs could also be.
We're not quite there in the story yet, but this business about disinformation and deception did more or less come up in my presentation in Las Vegas last year.
Since then, I have come to the conclusion that there has been a bit of a shell game played here. At Pearl Harbor in 1950, I suspect he demonstrated "solid dielectric" (EG) disks -- the kind that do perform in a vacuum (though we don't know of anybodu who has witnessed that effect in a vacuum first hand, or anytime in the last 40 years or so).
But once he went into his "wounded prairie chicken routine, he started demonstrating "fluid dielectric" (EHD) devices, not unlike the Ionic Breeze.
You see how well the deception worked when somebody like Mythbusters puts a lifter in a vacuum chamber and watches it sit there when and HV current is applied. See? No 'anti-gravity' effect. End of story. Another myth busted -- and, in this case another deception prolonged.
But, like I said, I haven't gotten that far yet...<g>
I still want to test-drive one, to find out.
Get in line, Buddy...
--PS
Paul Schatzkin
aka "The Perfesser"
"At some point we have to deal with the facts, not what we want to believe is true." -- Jack Bauer
Elizabeth Helen Drake wrote:
And I want a ride in the convertible version.
Elizabeth
I've been thinking I could fire up an old 3D rendering program and try to produce a couple basic models of the system I'm familiar with. One would be the toroid powered submersible discussed above, and another a basic high density acceleration tube.
This second one lends itself to being either buit-in or attached as a power pod, so if you'd settled for a ride in a watery convertible prototype we could do it with this one.
If I can get the program to work, I could upload the models and post links to them over in the Science section. Shouldn't take me any longer than a couple of years... Well, actually a little sooner than that, but it's been my experience that to use computers and other sophisticated equipment successfully it's helpful to be smarter than they are - unfortunately this often leaves me at a distinct disadvantage, so I can't make any deadline commitments... :)
Well, I think that you have lost me there. Most of the time I am just trying to not dissappoint my dog on the intelligence scale. I don't want to even mention computers.
You do make a valid point though about running up programs on computers, Its possible to virtually test all kinds of things without having to actually build the darned thing so you have a distinct advantage over those scientists in the fifties who were actually sometimes left with the standard " smoke tests" .... and the inevitable .... " well, THAT didn't work" response.
It might be that the reason some of this information is coming again to the surface is that it CAN be tested and proved out now, where the technology before would not support the needs of the experiments.
I suppose sometimes you just have to wait for the supporting technology to catch up with you, especially if you find yourself " ahead of your time"as Dr. Brown did. Elizabeth
Sorry. I'll try to move quicker. I'm a poor (and busy) student, and there wasn't so much as a spring break here. Vacuum tests with solid dielectric will be coming!
"If we knew what we were doing, it wouldn't be called research!" -Einstein
Well, I think that you have lost me there. Elizabeth
Sorry, I was sort of making a joke, which I shouldn't do when I've been up all night, since I left out certain key words such as 'virtual' and 'photoshop'... Part of the responsibility is yours though, as I was laughing too much over the Rex joke and not paying enough attention to what I was writing. Give me a couple days and I'll do a post over on the Science section that will hopefully clarify things and maybe give you and Paul a chuckle as well.
You are right Trickfox ... there would in the natural world be many more than just two choices. <G> Elizabeth
So I guess what you are saying is that the ability to detect subtle bifurcations in "recuring polydimensional time lines" is the ability to detect a third choice from any previously assumed AXIOMATIC either /or situation.
Challenge every existing notion of reality bring your idea into a solid frame of mind, focus on the reality of it, make sure it does not violate the "paradox of origin", and presto it comes into being.
Is that right?
I'm not claiming I know myself here I'm just bouncing first order logic at this wall from the other side. like saying "The guy taping the keys at this very moment does not even know what he writting, because it's coming from his being and not his body".
(WOW, did I just write that)
Tromp-the-fox
I don't remember any of this. I don't remember writting this, and it looks a bit like I DID write it. I certainly understand it and a few others may also but it scares me a bit.
EHD, can you confirm that I actually said it was "comming from my being"?
I must have been extremely tired and typing faster than my mind could decide on a final version of what I actually said. IT's almost like I was doing the very things I was just imagining.
By the way This is a GREAT thread everyone. I'm just a bit embarassed about having said things without remembering some parts of it.
I hiccupped and lost a bit of time here.
Welcome H. short and Gregg vizza. Nice to hear so many well informed opinions quoting all individual posibilities of an enormously difficult concept.
Last edited by Trickfox on Sat Mar 31, 2007 9:00 am, edited 1 time in total.
The psychopropulsier (as pointed out in the book The Good-bye man by Linda Brown and Jan Lofton) is a Quantum entanglement project under development using Quantum Junctions. Join us at http://www.Peeteelab.com
