Chapter 26 Submarine Duty S48

[Mark Culpepper]

Well, well, well . A full chapter, extraordinarily researched, well composed. Another A. Well deserved.

Another very clear example of "friends in high places" ... Seems to me that Townsend Brown had "friends in high places" before he even got to the NRL.(noting again how very quickly he got where he wanted to go and then was given that "total freedom". How rare is that? I would assume ...RARE.)

And then it is fairly obvious that he was being watched for potential while there.

And how well did he get to know Rickover, who was, that early ... a junior officer maybe? Talk about "friends in high places" , a hand to be played later in this game? Mark

[Victoria Steele]

Paul,

This chapter is so rich with material I hardly know which way to go to respond to some of the thoughts ... and then you have the next chapter too ... my head is swirling with the implication of everything

BUT I have learned to take things one step at a time and so... it surprises me that you seem to have made a mistake in this Chapter 26. You have referred to him particularly and consistantly as Seaman ist class but in Chapter 26 you say ...."Dr. Vening Meinez, it turns out was a man with friends in high places and he applied his quiet influence in the background to recommend LIEUTENANT BROWN for his next assignment at sea. You made just a simple mistake here? right?

Even having friends in high places, its hard to transform yourself into such a more advanced rank nearly overnight, outside of war. .... but its unlike you to make a mistake like that. So, whats the deal? Victoria

[Paul S.]

Another A. Well deserved.

Thanks, teach. (That was sincere, I hope it didn't sound like that sarcastic guy impostor who often posts in my stead...)

Another very clear example of "friends in high places" ... Seems to me that Townsend Brown had "friends in high places" before he even got to the NRL.(noting again how very quickly he got where he wanted to go and then was given that "total freedom". How rare is that? I would assume ...RARE.)

One of my invisible friends told me a long time ago that Brown had the ability to 'walk through walls' (he mighta said "doors" but I like walls better...). You're right, this would seem to be an early example of that ability. Unfortunately, I suspect that future examples of that talent will be more difficult to document.

And how well did he get to know Rickover, who was, that early ... a junior officer maybe? Talk about "friends in high places" , a hand to be played later in this game? Mark

I don't really have a good fix on that. It felt a little odd to mention Rickover only parenthetically, seeing what a huge figure he became in later years. I have not researched his career enough to know what his rank might have been during that period (early 30s). My hunch is that Rickover and Brown maintained some level of contact over the years. But I'm gonna be hard pressed to document that, too.

Thanks,

--PS

[Paul S.]

LIEUTENANT BROWN for his next assignment at sea. You made just a simple mistake here? right? . . . its unlike you to make a mistake like that. So, whats the deal? Victoria

Your faith in my infallibtility is touching, Victoria, if at least slightly misplaced.

I'll have to check, but I think the source of the error might be that by the time Brown did receive his next assignment, he had indeed been promoted again, and I probably just had "Lieutenant" on the brain when I typed that.

However, in this context, it is probably better to keep referring to Brown as "Seaman Brown" rather than invoking his next future rank, so I'll probably change that.

Very nice to have somebody catching my slip-ups like that. Thanks,

-PS

[Victoria Steele]

Paul, going to be one of my stranger off the cuff comments , but after that Buffett linkup, I have wings. So what will it hurt asking strangely motivated questions , right?

I have a hunch that you wrote "Lieutenant" by mistake but the muse guiding your fingers on the keyboard had an agenda. So, I need to know WHEN "Dr." Brown became Lt. Brown. I believe that there is something to talk about there and it needs to be talked about in this space ... how wierd is that, for me to say, Ya gotta know me! I am not your common garden variety mystic. Not one at all really! Science has already been too beautiful in my life. But I am beginning to see that there is in fact something really strange happening here. So, when Lieutenant? Please?

And hey, when we get around to it, we have ALOT more to talk about. I am making a list, but I am going to give others a chance to rattle your cage first. Victoria

[Martin Calloway]

Paul, you need to back up my thoughts on this but I believe Rickover was a junior grade officer. He served on subs from 1929 to 1933 ... first I believe on the S-9 and then on the S-48.

I don't know very much about subs since I far prefer to stay in the air but I do have friends and we visit some. Comments when I asked about the S48 historically was that she was considered by most to be the absolute worst example of her class and that the men aboard her were lucky to get out alive.

I do know that Rickover spoke fluent German ... which irritated many of those around him (and this was Before hostilities started for the second war ... left over feelings I figure from the first ).... but he was brilliant at that and his translation of a German submarine manual became the standard text for our navy.

He served as an officer on a minsweeper in 1937 (AM-9) "The Finch"
(why is it that they seem to name minesweepers bird names, anybody know out there?)

Anyway ... Rickover of course became the father of the nuclear navy and I understand hand picked every single person that served on any of his "boats" Not all that easy to live with, but that wasn't HIS problem.

I think one of the last boats he saw slide into the water was an experimental sub called (I think) the Seaview .... which had a special double hull for special deep dives and was rumored to have stealth capabilities .....

Suddenly I wonder... do you think there might have been a connection? Obviously, if the Navy had this technology for that long, maybe we DO have some wondrous subs out there. Its so easy to get captivated by space, when the wonders of the deep hold just as many secrets. Interesting to think about. Martin

[Trickfox]

Good lord does everyone see how young T.T.Brown looks in the photograph. It is difficult to believe how important his role was except to see young Brown beside what would be considered "his contemporaries".

He looks a bit like Giligan (no offense intended)
And the captain, well..... he looks like a Captain.

Ok, now that said, there is a very important illustration in the report from the S-48 cruise which caught my attention when I first saw it at Caltech.
it has an illustration of a small cross section of an area on earth as seen sliced in half at the exact center of the earth. Then the gravity readings are ploted across the section and a curved line drawn to shown the changing nature of the gravity anomalies.

When I saw this . Yup, a light bulb went on in my head and I became illuminated. I ran over to the copy machine with the book pulled out all the pocket change I had and started to copy this manual. I soon realized that I could not afford to copy the whole book so I picked the front and the rear of the manual and copied 7 pages between them.

I was not a the library to copy Brown documents, but I just happen to find that one, and now I'm sorry I did not take the time to follow my first thought.

I wonder if my life would have changed any better for it. I may have appreciated more of Brown's work quickly, but it might not have been the correct time for me to do so.

Hmmmm, I'm just rambling here. Should I stop all this nonesense?

Trickfox

[Martin Calloway]

Trickfox,

I imagine that we have all had those thoughts," DRATS if I had known more then I would have learned so much more, so much faster." But in my advancing age I have learned that sometimes you are not meant to go until something else crosses your path first. And just sort of learn to accept that,

I see design in many things and the sort of "self organization" that is happening here I see some design in. Of course thats for me to see and you to ignor if you wish. We all ... as, I think Elizabeth said, have been collecting golden threads and we are trying to weave something wonderful but the most wonderful thing might be to realize that the cloth was woven long ago and we are just following some sort of imbedded instructions on how to reweave it for ourselves. I have the feeling that this is something we each have to do for ourselves, one thread at a time maybe. Martin

[Elizabeth Helen Drake]

Everybody,

Its the strangest thing. We all start out trying to be the hard nosed researchers that we are supposed to be ...( Facts, just the facts.) But then we seem to run head long into something sort of STRANGE investigating the life of Townsend Brown. I have noticed it from the very first moment that Paul and I started working together.

I have found bits and pieces for this story, buried material that I just THOUGHT I just "stumbled" onto. But thats not an adequate enough explaination any more.


The ancients used to say that the "Muses" helped them and I swear this information comes to us all in that sort of way. Maybe we don't need to prove this "intelligent force" existance to appreciate it. Each to your own ..accept it or not, believe in it, or not. Myself, I am thankful to be getting this sort of "strange helping hand" Elizabeth

[Trickfox]

You are absolutely correct Martin, and I have a lot more respect for everyone in this group than I do for many people around me who seem to be oblivious to the rate at which our reality is changing, and how important that is in the big picture of things.

Everyone should notice that many of the people who visited and registered on this site have other agendas like selling cellphone tunes or pills, and that there is still a very small group actually following this disscussion in real time.

As more and more bots link up to spread these weird thoughts all over the net, people will start to wake up and smell the roses.

So let's greet them ahead of time and say, you may be on the late show, but at least you showed up. Thanks, and now please jump in; the water's fine.

Trickfox

[Elizabeth Helen Drake]

Trickfox ... did you notice the other day you and I posted a message at EXACTLY the same time? Thats what Paul and I call a cosmic haha. Elizabeth

[Trickfox]

Trickfox ... did you notice the other day you and I posted a message at EXACTLY the same time? Thats what Paul and I call a cosmic haha. Elizabeth

Yes I noticed that but yours got posted first in the time line. I guess that means you are supose to lead anyway. Nature decides right?

[Martin Calloway]

Paul I am just trying to get my head around the information that a US sub was made available to a scientist from the Netherlands. Just how does that work? You mentioned Princeton. But still, I didn't realize that could be done, I mean, borrowing a US sub because you need it to run tests? Is that something that happens normally? And who was this fellow who could do this, anyway?

And I thought to myself, after reading that Townsend Brown and another had helped save this guys life, I wondered "what happened in their careers? What did Townsend Brown do right after that experience, What did Hess do? Any indication that their careers were being "assisted" somehow? Seems to me if I was powerful enough a man to get a US sub to do my bidding I would also tend to look after the careers of the young men who had obviously saved my life! Maybe others would have bolted through the door and not bothered to look under beds in the dark! Martin

[Paul S.]

So, I need to know WHEN "Dr." Brown became Lt. Brown. I believe that there is something to talk about there and it needs to be talked about in this space ... So, when Lieutenant? Please?

Sorry I'm a little slow getting back to you on this, Victoria, but I've finally had a chance to sift through the Navy file and find the answer to your question.

It appears that Sea1c Brown applied for commission as an officer in the reserve on Jan 5, 1933. There is a letter of commendation the NRL dated January 12, and it looks like the Brown was sworn in as a lieutenant on April 22, 1933.

Reading that, I see my previous supposition was slightly out of date. I'd assumed that during Brown's next assignment at sea, as a science officer for the Johnson-Smithsonian expedition in January/February 1933, that he had already been promoted to Lt. Apparently the promotion was being processed during that voyage, about which I'll have much more to say soon.

Does that answer your question, and do I get to find out why you wanted to know?

--PS

[Victoria Steele]

Paul ,

You called him Lieutenant for his "next assignment" and though you now say that he didn't actually assume the rank until he got back from his next assignment (?) He did have his paperwork in process . So given a couple of months the Navy would manage to go in that direction.

But I don't understand. You said that he joined the RESERVES as an OFFICER. How does that happen? I don't understand how you can be a sailor first class .... and an officer the next? And the other thing I don't really understand ... you said earlier BEFORE Townsend Brown went into the Navy as a common sailor but he had made inquiries before joining up as to what it would take to become an officer in the reserves. So did he have all this planned from the first? Who is calling the shots here, an odd feeling, the Navy? or seaman first class Brown? Please explain , if you can how he managed to end up where he seemed to want to go in the first place. Maybe thats the real question I was meaning to ask.

Listening to Buffett again! Victoria