Conspiracy Theories and Townsend Brown

[Martin Calloway]

Victoria just mentioned in another post that there should be a post and I figured Why Not .... so here it is folks. Me first in this "pool"

I want to know why it is that in Chapter #3 (A Bitter Pill) Paul says that in a response to his question he had about Townsend Browns daughter , Andrew had said " Being part of the Townsend Brown family has made Linda pretty much of a recluse. The public believes that she was killed some years ago, and she prefers that actually.) WHY WOULD THAT BE?

He continued "Her father began NICAP and became associated with "UFOs" through his research into gravitational fields. I'm sure that you can get an idea of what type of people might want to look her up."

WHAT KIND OF PEOPLE?

Andrew are you monitoring this?

(Your Qualight Site by the way, is beautiful. I love the colors and of course the information is , as always firstrate. Being able to look at Browns Journals is amazing so you are to be commended for keeping that information out there ).

But what did you mean when you said the above. You are probably the person who knows Townsend Browns daughter the longest maybe?
Martin

[Victoria Steele]

O course, I love mysteries.

I'd like to know why it is that Martin Jessup was the first person that Dr. Brown mentioned in his notebooks.

As any of you who are really into early UFO interest might know, Martin Jessup was the man who wrote the book which got marked up and passed around and eventually got talked about as the seed for the "Philadelphia Experiment"

According to William Moore. (By the way, I ask for the hundreth time . Mr. Moore, surely you have seen these posts. Are you even out there to respond? Talking about conspiracies ought to be right up your alleyway.)

I'd like to know WHY Mr. Moore even included that chapter about Brown in his book in the first place. It doesn't even fit with the rest of it, except by inuendo. (and oddly, he NEVER mentions that Dr. Brown founded NICAP. Isn't that an odd omission?

Jessups body, by the way, was later found at an obscure little swimming place called "Matheson Hammock". They say it was suicide but of course, the conspiracy fans don't buy that. Anybody out there consider themselves an expert in all of that stuff? Jump in to the conversation! Or you are going to be tired from hearing from me all the time. Victoria

[Chris Knight]

Hi Mark,

Regarding Brown's daughter, Linda. There were several reasons for her reluctance to engage into the whole scene again:

First, she had spent her whole life moving all over the place, different towns, schools, dealing with the defense department and egos therein, the intrigue, etc. A nice, quiet house somewhere far from all that where she could raise a family in a stable environment begins to sound pretty nice.

Second, she was only semi-aware of what was going on in her father's life. Watching your Dad facing what seemed to be endless frustration dealing with the DoD, private institutions, etc. probably left a bitter taste in her mouth for the whole business. Too many painful memories. We had actually discussed writing a book in the early 1990's, but the inertia was just too great, and until Paul came along, we really didn't know where to begin.

Third answers your second question as to what kind of people might want to look her up. I used to have a small cross-section of personal letters on the website to and from Brown. You'd be surprised what kind of people. Not to put down Star Trek fans (I enjoyed the series as well), but it's a good stereotype. The letters he received ranged from institutions to individuals all requesting information, but many of the individuals were the type you would expect to see at a Star Trek convention all dressed up in a Klingon costume speaking the Klingon language, who wouldn't be beyond stalking, or the UFO conference people who go around with pyramid-shaped hats on (not that there's anything wrong with pyramid-shaped hats in themselves...) The letters could be very, very demanding. People who seemed like they might do anything to get the information they wanted. I wouldn't want people like that snooping around my family!

Andrew

[Elizabeth Helen Drake]

Boy those are great responses!

I was just reading the original post area where the question of conspiracies came up and Paul asked there that we not get too involved in discussing topics that might take the focus away from Townsend Brown.
Gee, so I guess that leaves Bigfoot out ......

AND I do understand his point.
He has worked very hard to keep his two feet on the ground regarding this project and I commend that. It hasn't been easy keeping on that razors edge of a mountain ridge without tumbling down one side or the other. So many other writers have taken that cheap way down the mountain. Sensationalism is an easy down hill slide. But then where are you?

I , however also appreciate what we might learn from looking carefully at some of these wilder-eyed observations.

SO ..... in this post area I am going to encourage those of you who want to step forward with those good old "weasle words" that Paul so studiously avoids. Words like .... "Might have" .... "supposedly" ..."Possible" .... a host of others.... I encourage all of you to "wing it " and brainstorm!

None of us has to PROVE anything in this particular area to discuss it. (Paul doesn't even have to pay attention to us if he doesn't want to .... but I strongly feel that there are important things to be learned from a freewheeling discussion of POSSIBILITIES.) So .... this is a little stranger pool .... But come on folks ... jump on in here! Want me to start?

Whats the deal with John Lear? I know he was Bill Lears son and so there is a thin association there between Dr. Brown and John Lears father. But what in the world inspired him to launch on what has been dubbed the "John Lear hypothesis" Anybody out there know what I am talking about?

And Oh, Victoria. William L. Moore has had strong connections with this fellow too ... I noted that you are still asking where Bill Moore is and why no one seems to have heard much from him. Now that we are talking conspiracies ..... He has to be at the top of the list of interesting people. Mr. Moore, You out there? I have a question. What was it that first inspired you to write about Townsend Brown? And why did you include your paragragh about Dr. Brown, which was previously written, into the main body of "The Philadelphia Experiment"? OK ... thats it for now. Anybody?
Elizabeth

[Trickfox]

Whats the deal with John Lear? I know he was Bill Lears son and so there is a thin association there between Dr. Brown and John Lears father. But what in the world inspired him to launch on what has been dubbed the "John Lear hypothesis" Anybody out there know what I am talking about?

Funny you should mention "John Lear" Elizabeth. I was watching events going on in Los Angeles and Las Vegas during the 80s and 90s and a lot of attention was being directed around a "mysterious area 51". When I first heard of it in Washington State, J.Z. Nights's chanelling seminars were becomming very popular. Lear's name popped up during disscussions around "area 51".
Then came the stories from Robert Lazar. A somewhat average looking guy was telling sellected individuals (reporters) that he had worked in area 51. Of course now he has become legendary.
In the early 90's I set up shop in Las Vegas and continued to monitor the activities of Lear. I went to one of his doomsday speeches which he was giving to support his children's high school fund raising. He was definately pursuing some sort of agenda which I could not understand. I had a chance to talk to him, so I introduced him to Ted Gunderson who had come with me to hear John's passionate speech. I had a chat with him in which he revealed to me that he was friends with Robert Booth Nichols of FIDCO fame. He said he was still receiving Christmas cards from Nichols and he seemed proud to have been associated to him.
I was more interested in Lazar however. He had produced an interesting technological scenario which I wanted to question him about, however I did not want to risk exposure, so I pulled out my resources and located Lazar's dwelling in Las Vegas. On a hunch I decide to go look up the neighborhood, and I found Lazar's home (complete with Jet engine race car in the front yard). I sat on him (watched the home) and lo and behold guess who showed up? John Lear. I imediately recognized him and so I shouted to him HEY John!! He looked at me with a stunned look on his face, and so I introduced myself (again) and I had a one minute chat about Lazar with him. He was a bit puzzled and asked me "how come you knew I was here". I just responded, "oh well John, I just happened to be in the neigborhood". I walked away and he continued on over to Bob Lazar's house but he kept turning back and looking at me with a puzzled look on his face as I drove away!
I suppose that now (10 years+) these mysteries are going to be clear up a bit for him. Right John?

Trickfox

[Elizabeth Helen Drake]

All reading this and you too Trickfox

I have probably jumped from one little pool to another so this might not have too much of a trail to follow ... but Trickfox I believe had said a very important phrase, two phrases actually. The first was

THE FLOW IS FROM THE PAST TO THE FUTURE AND THE FORUM IS ARCHIVED TO ALLOW OURSELVES TO CORRECT THE PAST.

He also was wise enough to say ... paraphrasing here ... that to go forward ... people need to check their egos at the door ... which he then demonstrated very nicely to Paul by offering to pull his earlier postings ....Paul of course turned that suggestion down because Trickfox has offered valuable insights and I don't think was quite as ego inflated as he thought he was.<g> But the object here is to move forward.

We all have egos ... to not have an ego would mean that you thought NOTHING of yourself ... and that is not valuable . But in discussing the stuff that might come in our direction it might be a good idea to do as I am sure Dr. Brown did. Everyone who ever met him ...( and I challenge anyone out there who has any personal knowledge of the man) ... I believe he was a shining example of "checking his ego at the door of this new dimension ..."

I happen to believe personally that it was because of that that he was awarded so much knowledge, Knowledge generally left behind because of those egosystems. So lets take his lead here folks. Leave those ego shoes by the door ..... and step on in. Elizabeth

[Victoria Steele]

Absolutely, positively agree with you Elizabeth and I have to say I was much impressed with Trickfoxs offer too. Looking back over my stuff, wondering how much egotistical crap I shoveled out there.

Then I came to a realization. EGO is one thing. PERSONALITY IS ANOTHER. I have this feeling (????) that personality is invited in. In fact encouraged to participate.

So if you find me railing against certain situations (Like authors who aren't around to stand behind their own work , again Mr. Moore, Mr. Vassilatos . Where are you guys? There are others of course I haven't even mentioned YET.) Thats just me. Thats what I do.

I also pay some attention to details. thats also me. Part of that personality. So I believe somehow I am part of this formula, though I don't know exactly what it is.

And I have the intuition that each of us out there has something to contribute to this. Something drawn from deep inside you. Something connected to this "forum" or you wouldn't even be reading my words.

So I encourage you, just as Elizabeth has been encouraging you, only this time I am using Trickfoxs words here. Lets "check our egos at the door" and (my words) "throw our personalities in a dufflebag ", and go for a hike in this new territory, shall we.? Come on with us! Victoria

[Mark Culpepper]

Open road? I can do that.

What about Adamski? Why is it that his "photo" of a UFO is EXACTLY the shape and form , down to the last detail, that Townsend Brown seems to have been so interested in? Why the exact similarity? Any Adamski UFO buffs out there that have the answer to that one, besides my brother, of course. Mark

[Chris Knight]

Hey!

I just wanted to throw in my own two cents on Lazar, Lear, and conspiracy stuff. It does seem to be an odd aquaintance. Bob used to sponsor an annual event called Desert Blast in the desert around Las Vegas. Through Mark Bean, who was a friend of his at that time, I went to #13, which ended up being the last one.

Anyhow, Lear was there riding around on his ATV, so I introduced myself as a friend of Linda Brown's. He didn't seem to be a very pleasant fellow, but maybe I caught him at a bad time. I would have expected at least an "Oh yeah, Linda, how is she? Say hello for me," since they used to see each other in the lab.

Anyhow, sometime later Mark and I went over to Bob's for the evening to see his computer and shoot the bull. If you all remember, he had once said that while he was working at Area 51, he walked by one of the sportster models on a runway, and ran his hand along the rim, thereby incurring the wrath of the escort guard.

I asked him about that, and what kind of metal was it. If you've spent any time working with different metals, you'll know that steel has an entirely different feel than aluminum or galvanized steel, or brass, bismuth, copper, etc. They have different smells, finishes (brushed, forged, etc.), etc. He's supposed to be the expert on this machinery, but all he could give was a non-commital answer. That really struck me as odd.

Mark supported Bob when he was having financial troubles, and then Bob up and left with a woman Mark had introduced him to, and moved to another state leaving Mark with some bills. Mark has some choice words regarding Bob, but that doesn't have any bearing on whether he worked on that type of machinery - at Area 51 or elsewhere.

The jet car in his front drive was cool, and at Desert Blast he had a jet-powered go cart.

Has anyone else met the man?

Andrew

[Paul S.]

Has anyone else met the man?

Maybe he and Bill Moore are living in the basement of the White House with JFK, Marilyn, and Elvis...

Sorry, couldn't resist. I just needed to post something to get subscribed to this thread.

--PS

[Elizabeth Helen Drake]

Oh, I love it ... (while Paul is not looking<g>) I can use those "weasel" words to my hearts content. So here goes .... and I can't help it ... Here is one for his own back yard.

Does the name Frtiz Furth sound familiar to anybody? I wasn't involved in Pauls first book but I do know that Admiral Furth was involved with Farnsworths test of his "fusion" ideas ..... and , listen up here folks ... It was Fritz Furth who was handed that marked up copy of Martin Jessups book..... which eventually became the seed for the "Philadelphia Experiment"

Now ... could there POSSIBLY BE A CONNECTION? Was Admiral Furth helping these two scientists ... or keeping and eye on them ... or both? I just find it odd to find him there, centerstage, in the lives of both men. Anybody got some comments?

Paul, surely you have noted that oddity too. You want to comment on your thoughts in this direction? I didn't ask about Bigfoot, honest. Elizabeth

[Victoria Steele]

I just LOVE invitations to pool parties! Acn you tell? Its so much fun to get interesting people together .... so , with that in mind. John Lear, Bob Lazar. William Moore. We are talking about you here. Are your ears burning yet?

And so we can't be accused of "talking behind your backs" Join the party!

That said. Andrew . Thank you for your update on Mark Beans health. I am one of his admirers when it comes to demonstrating the work of Townsend Brown . Mark has a rare enthusiasm for the field and he shows it.

So I invite Mark too. Tell us what your take of Townsend Browns work is. It will be a valued contibution I am sure, because very few of us have actually watched one of Dr. Browns discs in operation.

Maybe I can ask you that question that is being passed around.. (and anybody else out there have something to add? Just remember what Elizabeths caution, we don't have to prove any thing and we are encouraged to broach any subject . But for sake of clarity, lets stick with things that have some connection, somehow with Townsend Brown. OK?)

Ok . Heres the question."What got you interested in following the work of such a little known scientist ?...( well , at the time he would have been "little known" but I don't think that you can say that now.) So Mark. Want to join us? Your thoughts would be welcomed! Victoria

[Trickfox]

Well since we are on the subject of conspiracies, let me be, -yet another person to make a provocative statement about skullduggery in UFO circles.

A very good friend of mine who has been documented as an associate of the man named Fred Crisman once told me a story about Crisman which is completely believable, and indicates just how much of a hero he might (dear lord, do I dare say) have been.
It is said that during WW2 the Germans were thought to have been very close to developing Nuclear Weapons. Films were made about it. The American government was trying to develop a strategy to slow down or stop the Germans from reaching their research goals.

It is told how Fred Crisman devised a plan to slow down and confuse the German scientist working on these nuclear projects. It is said that Fred invented sophisticated electromechanical devices filled with electronic sensing circuits and plenty of bells and wistles and such. Well it turns out that these devices that Crisman had designed were unique in that each one of them worked differently and was deemed to be used seperatly for some other more sophisticated machinery.

Apparently the only common point about any of these devices was the fact that none of them fulfilled any purpose whatsoever. In fact they were only sophisticated machines which did absolutely NOTHING. The machine and sub-components were simply dropped by allied forces all over the countryside, some of them were dropped near the facilities where these scientists were working.

How's that for enginuity folks?

Let's see here, what did they say about Crisman and why did they say it?
http://www.majesticdocuments.com/personnel/crisman.php


Trickfox

[Elizabeth Helen Drake]

Trickfox and others,

I don't know very much about Fred Crisman but FIRST BLUSH it seems that he might have served much the same "purpose" as John Lear did later.

I know thats a strange statement but look how outrageous his claims got when he got people to start listening to him .( Underground beings and caves and such. Sounds pretty much like the type of yarn that John Lear so enthusiastically and wholeheartedly spun.) Which leaves us in interesting situations. What path to choose? Do we believe these guys? Do we ignor these guys? Do we do something in between?

Someone once told me that "there is a grain of truth and good in almost everything and everybody" So thats the way I choose to look at the stories that Fred Crisman let out. There is either truth in his STORY or truth in his AGENDA. or truth in SOMETHING I don't know about yet. But its there somewhere. (Paul says I am an eternal optimist)

Sort of like the Majestic 12 stories. Something is obviously there. But does anyone know how that whole thing got started? Correct me if I am wrong. But I believe that Bill Moore had his hands in that too. He do get around, don't he?

So ...WHY?
What was his agenda? To sell more books? to get at the truth? to hide the truth? oh, wait . Those are either /or choices. How about ..... Could all of those statements be true? (and some we don't even know about yet?) I just need to know what his agenda was .... thats my agenda. Elizabeth

[Trickfox]

Has anyone else met the man?

Maybe he and Bill Moore are living in the basement of the White House with JFK, Marilyn, and Elvis...
--PS

Hey Paul can you add John Lear to that list of yours.

You know something funny. I had a conversation with a friend of mine who works and lives in the southwestern US, and he is VERY familliar with John Lear. He told me that years ago (in the early 90s) he obtained information about a telephone conversation between John Lear and Linda Brown, in which the subject matter of "Alien Greys" and "grusome invasion plans" were disscussed. Apparently his advise to Linda was "you had better find a nice quiet place in the desert and pull the blankets up over your head".
I wonder, does Linda have any recollection of this? Can anyone ask her about it.
It certainly looks like John Lear actually believed what he now is so shy to discuss with everyone.

Trickfox