NOTEPAD for RANDOM IDEAS

[Griffin]

Dream on, Nate. Dreams can bring through insights which our ordinary waking mind can miss.

Magic-

Your interchange with Nate and the “What is Sputtering” article seems somehow deja vuish to me. Perhaps if I was a scientist I would know how. But it seems to resonate with what TTB explained to me about how the propulsion system of the Adamski flying disc worked. I think he did this to reassure me that it was a genuine interplanetary and interdimensional flying craft. I understood his explanation while he was explaining it. It's a beautiful, elegant concept. The whole craft is alive with energy in a sort of dance, interaction and interchange of charged ions. I can’t reproduce his explanation, but this “sputtering” concept seems to ring a bell (ha-ha). Consider the Adamski Flying “Model A” Bell in this light and see what may ring true for you.

As ever,

Griffin

[Griffin]

Sleep and dream on it too.

Griffin

[htmagic]

Dream on, Nate. Dreams can bring through insights which our ordinary waking mind can miss.

Magic-

Your interchange with Nate and the “What is Sputtering” article seems somehow deja vuish to me. Perhaps if I was a scientist I would know how. But it seems to resonate with what TTB explained to me about how the propulsion system of the Adamski flying disc worked. I think he did this to reassure me that it was a genuine interplanetary and interdimensional flying craft. I understood his explanation while he was explaining it. It's a beautiful, elegant concept. The whole craft is alive with energy in a sort of dance, interaction and interchange of charged ions. I can’t reproduce his explanation, but this “sputtering” concept seems to ring a bell (ha-ha). Consider the Adamski Flying “Model A” Bell in this light and see what may ring true for you.

As ever,

Griffin

Griffin,

Sputtering is simply ion movement. It can be used to deposit or etch material. In the case of ion propulsion, additional material needs to be added to the exhaust for the ions to be added to the system. The ion movement is what propels the craft. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ion_propulsion

Here is a picture of an electrostatic ion thruster:



Looks like the Germans were playing with this concept as early as 1929. They were probably looking at it heavily during WWII and maybe this was why Dr. Brown was looking for Germans.

A working ion thruster was built by Harold R. Kaufman in 1959 at the NASA Glenn facilities. It was similar to the general design of a gridded electrostatic ion thruster with mercury as its fuel. Suborbital tests of the engine followed during the 1960s and in 1964 the engine was sent into a suborbital flight aboard the Space Electric Rocket Test 1 (SERT 1). It successfully operated for the planned 31 minutes before falling back to Earth.

1959 was right at the start of America's space race and during the 'missing years' of Dr. Brown's life. Maybe this was one of the projects he was consulted on since he was already into EHD, MHD, and electrogravitics.

By the way, I can see similarities of the electrostatic ion thruster to the electrokinetic generator (EKGen) or the 'flame jet generator'. As Kevin would say, 'It's all connected.' And it's all about ions...

MagicBill

[kevin.b]

Just a strange aside,
13 zodiacs, not twelve.
http://spaceplace.nasa.gov/en/kids/st6s ... der3.shtml

[Trickfox]

Trickfox, I have always had the impression is that much of the Ong's hat story,including the twins, was a collaborative fabrication of some brilliant creative people who shared a fondness for certain hallucinogens. They were creating a virtual reality world, before we even understood the term.

rose

Actually,I'm not even interested in the story itself that much. I just wondered if it was determined if the Dobbs twins are REAL people or not. I actually like the ideas they talked about however I think perhaps "Mandlebrot/Cantor" math was a shot in he dark. There are a lot more aspects of this story that stink of fiction but I have to admit I like the premise of using strange attractors and computer modeling, albeit in a whole lot more complex method than what they were talking about in this story. As for the chemical hallucinogens!!! There is an ongoing comprehensive social enginering program dedicated to this issue and it is the blackest of all black projects. I just don't really have any proof of it. (nor do I care to seek it)

Trickfox

[htmagic]

Just a strange aside,
13 zodiacs, not twelve.
http://spaceplace.nasa.gov/en/kids/st6s ... der3.shtml
Kevin, scorpious.

Kevin,

Dead link. It doesn't work. Got a home page or something?

MagicBill

[kevin.b]

htmagic,
stranger and stranger?
I tried the link ,and it worked, velly odd/
http://www.geocities.com/astrologyconst ... /index.htm
kevin, scorpius

[htmagic]

htmagic,
stranger and stranger?
I tried the link ,and it worked, velly odd/
http://www.geocities.com/astrologyconst ... /index.htm
kevin, scorpius

Kevin,

Now this link worked. You sent another link once where only those from the UK could view the site.

But I just tried the previous link you sent and now it works fine. Could be that they were working on the site or too many people hit it at once.

Thanks!

MagicBill
P.S. I'm definitely a Leo...
P.P.S. I never heard of Ophiuchus until now. Very interesting. The snake healer... Thanks for that info!

[kevin.b]

htmagic,
just go's to show how you can't trust these NASA dudes?
They can't handle the heat.
Kevin

[natecull]

On ion thrusters:

Looks like the Germans were playing with this concept as early as 1929. They were probably looking at it heavily during WWII and maybe this was why Dr. Brown was looking for Germans.

A working ion thruster was built by Harold R. Kaufman in 1959 at the NASA Glenn facilities. It was similar to the general design of a gridded electrostatic ion thruster with mercury as its fuel. Suborbital tests of the engine followed during the 1960s and in 1964 the engine was sent into a suborbital flight aboard the Space Electric Rocket Test 1 (SERT 1). It successfully operated for the planned 31 minutes before falling back to Earth.

1959 was right at the start of America's space race and during the 'missing years' of Dr. Brown's life. Maybe this was one of the projects he was consulted on since he was already into EHD, MHD, and electrogravitics.

Certainly the strongest evidence we seem to have for his 'white world' projects seem to centre around ion thrust-type applications, so I'd be surprised if he wasn't doing something interesting here in the black world.

But a thing that I noticed earlier when I was looking up cyclotron-type toroidal-vortex ion systems and the Lorentz force (following Deyo) is that the most efficient conventional ion thruster, the Hall Effect thruster, was not known or used by the Americans but by the Russians.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hall_effect_thruster

If you've seen the movie Iron Man, you'll recognise that signature blue-green glowing ring. I guess the Iron Man fictional handwavy-zero-point-reactor thingy was inspired by the Hall thruster. I expect it only really looks like this in a vacuum.

Hall thrusters were studied independently in the US and the USSR in the 1950s and 60s. However, the concept of a Hall thruster was only developed into an efficient propulsion device in the former Soviet Union, whereas in the US, scientists focused instead on developing gridded ion thrusters.

The common SPD design was largely the work of A. I. Morozov.[1] SPD engines were operated since 1972. They were mainly used for satellite stabilization in North-South and in East-West directions. Since then until the late 1990s 118 SPD engines completed their mission and some 50 continued to be operated. Thrust of the first generation of SPD engines, SPD-50 and SPD-60 was 20 and 30 mN respectively. In 1982 SPD-70 and SPD-100 were introduced, their thrust being 40 mN and 83 mN. In the post-Soviet Russia high-power (a few kilowatts) SPD-140, SPD-160, SPD-180, T-160 and low-power (less than 500 W) SPD-35 were introduced.[2]

Soviet and Russian DAS-type engines include D-38 and D-55.[2]

Soviet-built thrusters were introduced to the West in 1992 after a team of electric propulsion specialists, under the support of the Ballistic Missile Defense Organization, visited Soviet laboratories and experimentally evaluated the SPD-100 (i.e., a 100 mm diameter SPT thruster). Over 200 Hall thrusters have been flown on Soviet/Russian satellites in the past thirty years. They were used mainly for stationkeeping and small orbital corrections. Currently Hall Thruster research, design, and theoretical modelling is led by experts at NASA Glenn Research Center and the Jet Propulsion Laboratory. A considerable amount of development is being conducted in industry, such as Aerojet and Busek Co.

That's a pretty impressive technological hole in the US satellite arsenal, and it intrigues me - especially with the suggestions that there may be other, more dramatic, applications of this general class of hardware. The Lorentz force has been known since, well, Lorentz. But somehow the US satellite guys, at least the official ones, didn't put two and two together, but the Russians did.

Would an organisation like the Carolines potentially have been in a place to know about such Soviet developments before the US military/satellite reconaissance mainstream?

If Brown was working with NRO on ion thrusters, how likely is it that he was not smart enough to understand the efficiency gains of using an elegant Hall-type device and instead went with a lower-efficiency, brute-force gridded thruster? Doesn't seem like his style to me.

(One of the common technological threads that seems to weave in and around the 'cyclotron' class of devices seems to me to be this idea of *reusing the ions* and making a single charge do multiple work. Even the lowly lifter/ionocraft does this, which initially confused observers into wondering if it was doing more than ion wind. The ions or at least the charges recirculate, and impart their flow to the adjacent neutral medium. The Hall thruster does something sort of similar which amplifies the force, though it still carries its own reaction mass which limits its lifespan.)

[Rose]

Rereading this thread as suggested....25 pages down, 93 to go. Does anyone have a cure for bleary eyes?

Trickfox, I can't remember all of the original four people associate with the Ong's hat legend, but the "twins"were not part of that cadre. In this after-the-fact interview, one of the perpetrators states:

One, the majority view as what it was meant to be, a joke that should have flamed out a few years ago. This majority includes the creators who in an attempt to get it through to those that clearly have missed the obvious, put out the heretical inc5 and 6 in a collaborative effort to re-inject some levity into the situation. If you have missed the point that it is a joke you have missed THE point.

However, he goes on with an alternate explanation, which, to me, seems to be entirely tongue-in-cheek:

This model has now been tested, perfected and enhanced a bit. The latest version was delivered to JPL for social group simulator testing and then handed off to several prominent computer game companies to utilize in upcoming console, PC and cellphone games to be released starting this year. It is a model that is designed to be addictive, circular (leading nowhere while always promising to lead somewhere) and results in madness in the user after extended exposure. ...No need for physical asylums! Hooray! A budgetary success as well!

But as long your fertile brain is being piqued by the ideas you are encountering, then who cares about their source?

Hoping you are continuing to feel well these days.
hugs,
rose

[FM No Static At All]

Trickfox, I have always had the impression is that much of the Ong's hat story,including the twins, was a collaborative fabrication of some brilliant creative people who shared a fondness for certain hallucinogens. They were creating a virtual reality world, before we even understood the term.

rose

While I do agree that these folks were using some "mind altering" chemicals, it is a well known fact that many shaman have used certain plants and herbs to produce such states of mind, in order for them to "see" into other realms. While I do not condone the flagrant use of chemicals to produce such mental states, having been there many years ago, I can say for certain that many amazing cognitive awareness skills can be produced. I strongly feel that we all have them and whether drugs or near death traumas are the catalysts that bring them into being, it is a reality that needs further serious study. I have learned t o use use music, frequencies such as those produced by the Gregorian Chants, to alter stats of being.

I currently suffer chronic and frequent hip pain, yet I am able to control it without the use of prescribed or contraband drugs. It's effectiveness is relative to the amount of relaxation I am able to create, so during periods of stress, by tolerance for pain is significantly reduced while the pain itself increases exponentially.

I know the Pine Barrens quite well, and have been there quite frequently although Ong's Hat area I was not familiar with until recent years when I was handed the book to read. I would have liked to have known about that stuff 30 years ago, as I may have investigated it personally, and more thoroughly. I am sure that anyone interested in researching the Dobbs twins can do so, although I would imagine that is not their real names. But many of the others mentioned in the book and by the Incunabula Newsletters and radio broadcasts are real people. It may be a cleverly woven tale, yet there is quite a bit of truth within the "legends."

Is there a parallel universe n which Earth2 and Java2 exist? Is it like the postcards that curled from the rain that gave Dr. Brown that "Eureka" moment? Questions where we seek answers often produce more questions.
http://www.incunabula.org/

[natecull]

http://viterbi.usc.edu/news/news/2008/v ... m-goes.htm

The above link talks about an area I'm very passionate about. "Quantum Communications theory". some of you may care to know about this since we have talked about Alice and Bob in the wonderland of "instantaneous communications no matter what the distance is".

Trickfox

FYI: Another quantum communications breakthrough that just hit today. I think it's a different one.
http://arxivblog.com/?p=554

But ask a physicist what the capacity is of a quantum information channel and she’ll stare at the floor and shuffle her feet. Despite years of trying, nobody has been able to update Shannon’s theory of communication with a quantum version.

Which is why a paper today on the arXiv is so exciting. Graeme Smith at the IBM Watson Research Center in Yorktown Heights NY (a lab that has carried the torch for this problem) and Jon Yard from Los Alamos National Labs have made what looks to be an important breakthrough by calculating that two zero-capacity quantum channels can have a nonzero capacity when used together.

That’s interesting because it indicates that physicists may have been barking up the wrong tree with this problem: perhaps the quantum capacity of a channel does not uniquely specify its ability for transmitting quantum information. And if not, what else is relevant?

[Trickfox]

The only "mind altering" drug that has ever really "affected" me is Alcohol. The rest of them including LSD were of no real consequence to my "thinking process" and Pink Floyd music had a more drastic effect to me than halucinogenic drugs. (Maybe I just never took enough to feel the effects).

Alcohol, however is an extremely dangerous drug for me. I cannot handle it at all except to numb down reality. I hardly ever touch liquor but I do like "Tequilla/Lime/cherry peppers" shooters in a controlled vacation atmosphere where I don't have to be responsible for my own actions for a short while. I'm sure many of you know the feeling that I'm talking about.

Trickfox

[htmagic]

Trickfox,

Very wise indeed to limit alcohol consumption. I use some from time to time as long as I stay put and stay on our back deck. A little alcohol is apparently good for you but many abuse it. I think years ago before refrigeration wine (and beer) were good methods to obtain (pure) drinking water and the early colonists drank alcohol. They also grew hemp but I don't think anyone then tried smoking it as it was more valuable as rope!

This Ong's Hat is interesting. I see that I'm about 2 or so hours away. I may take an excursion one day and take some pictures. If I come up missing, send out the search parties as I'm sure this wonderful forum won't be waiting on the other side of the "Gate".

MagicBill
P.S. Pink Floyd's Wish You Were Here always scared the cr*p out of me. Especially the elevator to Hell and "Welcome to the Machine". Yikes!