Chapter 41 - Forks In The Road

Use this section for any discussion specifically related to the chapters posted online of the unfolding biography, "Defying Gravity: The Parallel Universe of T. Townsend Brown
Paul S.
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Re: fins to the right, fins to the left

Post by Paul S. »

twigsnapper wrote:Paul will recognize that Buffett song, lyrics being "Fins to the right of her, fins to the left, and shes the only bait in town."
Oh yeah..."Sharks" One of my faves.
The Russian disinformation machine made sure that Germany was blamed but history has finally proven otherwise.
Y'all help me out here, because a quadrant of my brain is failing me. There was a movie that dealt with this subject -- the polish bodies found in mass graves, the Russians culpable but pinning it on the Germans. It might have been "Enigma" ... but I'm not sure. Anybody remember seeing that scenario portrayed on film?
Fins to the right, fins to the left. Don't forget the influence of the Soviets in the United States during this part of history.
By which I assume you mean that much of the West's intel and security apparatus had been deeply infiltrated, ala "Phiby & Co." ?

-PS
Paul Schatzkin
aka "The Perfesser"
"At some point we have to deal with the facts, not what we want to believe is true." -- Jack Bauer
twigsnapper
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a little background

Post by twigsnapper »

Just a little background.

In 1941, Stalin refused to believe the intelligence reports that he was getting from his operatives around the world that the Germans were in fact going to strike his borders. He had been getting word from some of his agents in Tokyo which had broken into the German embassy. He ignored that information. Other information gathered from Germans monitoring Stephensons group in New York pointed the Russian agents the fact that Germany was definitely planning on attacking Russia also. Again, even that intelligence was ignored by Stalin.

Russian agents had been monitoring and trying to infiltrate the Stephenson group in England and the United States. It was not above them actually to stand back and monitor the German rings in in the USA. Standing back, not involving themselves, they gathered quite a bit of information about what the Germans were anxious to know, and in that way, discovered what was important to follow up on with more effort. A very useful technique actually. Let the other fellow do most of the work, then swipe his information. A very smart Russian trait.

At the time (1936-1941) the Germans were mounting a cross attack on Stephenson agents who had caused much consternation to the German plans. This meant that many were of Stephensons people were captured, tortured and killed by German agents bent on collecting information. Of the Stephenson crews, none of them gave out an ounce of information. Some were rescrued and went on to exact a certain amount of justice. Others did not survive.

It was into this kind of world that this lovely Josephine introduced herself quite willingly and boldly. Sometimes it helps to know a little background information to appreciate what is right in front of your face. Twigsnapper
Victoria Steele
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vacations

Post by Victoria Steele »

Hey, Paul! A chapter this week? Probably not, huh?

Its probably OK because I think that most of everybody out there has decided to go on vacation. Its been so darned hot!

I am not going to complain though after seeing first hand what REAL heat can do. That Pioneertown blaze was amazing and I thought of you briefly while I was visiting friends there. One house was burned to the ground and neighbors told me that the fellow was an anti-terrorism specialist on duty somewhere else! Nature I guess, has its own version of terror!

So, no chapter this week? I'm not bitching, just asking. Victoria
Paul S.
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Probably not,

Post by Paul S. »

....but don't give up yet.

Yes, I've shifted gears this past week. Turns out that writing about the book is even harder than writing the book... who'da thunk. I've got some material for the next chapter, but it's still pretty raw. I'll look at it in the morning and then decide if I'm going to keep working on the proposal or try to knock another brick into the wall.

Another consideration is that I'm going to be "AFK" (away from keyboard) for a week starting Thursday, so it could be two weeks...at least...

Summer vacation... yeah, it's about time. Everybody in the water!

--PS
Paul Schatzkin
aka "The Perfesser"
"At some point we have to deal with the facts, not what we want to believe is true." -- Jack Bauer
grinder
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translating

Post by grinder »

Paul,

I can see what you mean about the information you get from the "sources" you quote, if Mr. Twigsnapper is any indication of what you have been dealing with.

I just read his last message very carefully and when he said that some of the Stephenson operatives were captured and I think he said TORTURED . I thought immediately of the "lost finger" account and how you for a long time said to all of us ...." no, no, thats not what happened." And Twigsnapper himself took some trouble in saying that you could not trust what you read in hometown papers (like, what else is new?)

So, you have known for a long time that the "lost his finger in a lathe" was not the truth, haven't you? How long will it be before you can tell us what actually happened?

And then you watch to see what his darling wife did? She apparently signed up! Was she out to strike back at those who had threatened and hurt her husband. Or did she buy the "cover story" too? If she was working for Evelyn Macbarnet she had direct links with the British MI5.( I looked her up , not much out there but those connections.) So who was Josephine actually working for? Stephenson? The English? The Americans?

Or maybe she was just working for her husband, which seems to have been her understood role from the very first. Too many questions? Sorry! They all just sort of spilled out! grinder
Victoria Steele
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bringing this to the top

Post by Victoria Steele »

I needed to just bring this post to the top because its relevant to everything that we have been saying in our most current thread. Re read this Chapter people. Its worth it! Victoria
Elizabeth Helen Drake
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Evelyn and company

Post by Elizabeth Helen Drake »

Paul,

I just realized that if you go almost immediately to the time when Dr. Brown tenders his resignation from the Navy and heads west to California, what will happen to the lovely information that Victoria and Mark C. and grinder were discussing in this thread? I realize that the proof is pretty thin about Josephines activities but will they then not be mentioned at all.

Just rambling through I think that this bunch brought up a few really good points, and of course twigsnapper was wonderful in being able to set the story in its proper place with other things that were going on.

I mean, I would hate to lose the meetings on the banks of the Potomac ... and its been said that Josephine was actually working for Stephenson? Does all of this information have to wait for the rewrite? Its just such a grand glimpse of a brave lady in action.

And what was said I think was absolutely true! BUT It may have "looked" like Josephine might have been working for some other covert organization but in actuallity I think that she only worked for and in behalf of her husband. So, when she went to work for the BSC was she striking back at someone who had hurt him? Possible? "Some were resued and survived" Mr. Twigsnapper said and "some did not" Elizabeth
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