David Packard's links Hughes Glomar and Catalinia

As I revisited the manuscript prior to producing the Audiobook edition, I need a place to gather my/our thoughts about any revisions.
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Henry_Yang
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David Packard's links Hughes Glomar and Catalinia

Post by Henry_Yang »

Approximately a year ago, discussion on this forum turned towards Thomas Townsend Brown's time on Catalina island, and the rocks he collected from the beaches. I will summarize what I remember from those older threads:

1. Beau Kitselman did calculations for Project MOHOLE

2. Those calculations where possibly reused on Project AZORIAN

3. Brown was on Catalina because Catalina was where Howard Hughes was conducting AZORIAN

4. Raymond Lavas said that JPL Pasadena kept a record of a submarine designed by Brown and it was electrohydrodynamic in nature

5. It was suggested by Jan that Lavas's discovery was in fact the AZORIAN submarine

6. This would mean that Brown was at Catalina island as a project member of AZORIAN


...

Is this true? I don't know. I recently revisited these threads and started by penning the alternate theory that Brown really was there just to collect rocks, and that the silicate minerals where used in High Performance Liquid Chromatography. Brown was inspired by Charles Brush's experiments where the silicate powder seemed to heat up anomalously. Maybe Brush had HPLC figured out and Brown got it from his old papers.

But recently I received an email from Mikado saying that in addition to Lavas's philosophical papers (the red binder), he also holds other materials of a much more confidential nature that truly outline Brown's work and its link to "EG communications", and it was insinuated that EG really is "electro-gravity".

So High Performance Liquid Chromatography may be way off the mark.

...

Now for the AZORIAN project... as it turns out, it was planned by David Packard.

But who is David Packard?

It is the same man that introduced ROBERT BOOTH NICHOLS into the CIA.

And when Raymond Lavas met Robert Maheu, Nichols was already there. According to his own account, which was posted on Paul's main site, but I added those comments to this forum a while back.

It seems likely to me that Nichols was a part of the same inner circles as Brown. And Lavas was only on the outside, but is our only window into it all.




One of the most difficult exercises is to apply the cost-benefit principle to a specific intelligence operation. This is particularly true of Project AZORIAN. During its early stages of planning, Deputy Secretary of Defense David Packard and his fellow ExCom members and other senior officials were wrestling with projected costs of the program and evaluating the technical risks involved. Lifting a submarine weighing approximately 1,750 tons from a depth of 16,500 feet had never been attempted or accomplished anywhere before. Packard contended if they were to wait until all the risks were eliminated, the project would nenver get under way. The resulting decision to move ahead with the plan to recover the Soviet submarine was courageous, carefully considered, and intangibly beneficial: a government or organization too timid to undertake calculable risks in pursuit of a proper objective would not be true to itself or to the people it serves.
PROJECT AZORIAN: THE STORY OF THE HUGHES GLOMAR EXPLORER

https://www.cia.gov/readingroom/docs/DOC_0005301269.pdf




But at about this time a mysterious burglary took place at a Hughes office in Los Angeles. Four or five armed men overwhelmed a guard, slipped past a sophisticated electronic alarm system and burned their way into a Hughes safe containing documents outlining the participation of the Hughes organization in the effort to raise the submarine. As a result the Los Angeles Times somehow came into the possession of incomplete and somewhat garbled information about the Glomar Explorer project and, on 8 February 1975, published what it had learned.

Director William Colby and other CIA officials then scrambled to suppress the story. They met with temporary success: the New York Times, the Los Angeles Times, the Washington Post, the Washington Star, the three major television networks, the National Public Broadcasting System, Time magazine and Newsweek all agreed to "hold" the story at least until someone else published an account of the operation in exchange for briefings on the submarine raising efforts. But on 18 March 1975 columnist Jack Anderson decided to break the story and "the cat was out of the bag."

Or was it? Questions remain. As Time put it in its 31 March 1975 article:

(T)here is the puzzle of why so many reporters for major newspapers, magazines and TV networks simultaneously stumbled upon the (Glomar Explorer project) trail. On the morning after, some journalists got the feeling that the CIA had actually been helpful all along in getting the story out, while at the same time it apparently tried to suppress the story. There are several theories .... The last theory goes off into the wild blue yonder, suggesting that raising a Soviet submarine was not (the project's) mission at all, but the supreme cover for a secret mission as yet safely secure.2

MILITARY AUDIT PROJECT, Felice D. Cohen, Morton H. Halperin, Appellants,
v.
William CASEY, Director of Central Intelligence, et al.

https://web.archive.org/web/20120325093 ... ml#fn2_ref
Jan Lundquist
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Re: David Packard's links Hughes Glomar and Catalinia

Post by Jan Lundquist »

Henry, according to "Twigsnapper. Toiwnsend Brown's best kept secret was hidden in the ocean.

Here are a handful of facts to add to your brew:

William Bradford Whitehill Rand was a pioneer in deep sea exloration. Some sources give Whitehall as his third name. He sold all of his commercial holdings in order to remove the conflict of interest that would have prohibited him from taking on the management of the Project Mohole effort.

https://nap.nationalacademies.org/read/ ... ter/47#234

IIRC Townsend had begun using Whitehall Rand as his DBA right around the time that Rand went into private consulting. This leads me to believe that the two collaborated for a while. long before the Azorian project began.

https://d2sw33r0wd4m0d.cloudfront.net/f ... Edward.pdf.


It was the Glomar Explorer ship which received the most attention, but the public was not informed about the "massive (over 2,000 ton) hydraulically operated grapple, nicknamed Clementine, specially designed to grasp the K-129’s hull.... each of the eight claws on Clementine was essentially an assembly of I-beams measuring three feet deep and two feet wide,...and the whole device massed as much as a Second World War destroyer." To assure that the Clementine remained hidden, a submersible barge, the HMB-1 (for “Hughes Mining Barge”), was built in order to load the grapple aboard the Explorer without being seen in the shallow water off Catalina Island.
With her cover blown, and too specialized and expensive to repurpose, the Glomar Explorer herself spent the next twenty years in mothballs at the US Navy’s reserve storage facility at Suisun Bay in California, having sailed on exactly one operational voyage and completed exactly one mission. The HMB-1 was likewise kept around ‘just in case’ for a time before being used as an enclosed space for building prototype stealth ships such as the Sea Shadow.
https://oto-env.com/blog/say-goodbye-to ... -explorer/

For what is known about the Sea Shadow, see https://www.lockheedmartin.com/en-us/ne ... hadow.html and https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oSC55RJhsBQ)

It is possible that this is the vehicle to which Raymond referred. There would certainly have been much more to the ship than we have been told today, but what that "more" would have been is open to conjecture.

Jan
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Re: David Packard's links Hughes Glomar and Catalinia

Post by Henry_Yang »

Hi Jan! Thanks for the wonderfully educational reply! In time, all of these random bits and pieces will fit together and not be random at all... I can almost feel this entire forum converging on something.

Maybe this will fit in too, so I would like to add in that the US NAVY worked on a class of submarine-launched ballistic missiles in the 80s and 90s and that this makes the best fit for contextualizing the work of Kitselman, which was probably based off of Brown's earlier experiments.

Image



Take for example the UGM-133 Trident II, one of the Trident missiles made by Lockheed Martin Space. Here are pictures of the earlier generation Trident missiles being launched.

Image



I do not think it is a COINCIDENCE that the Project Azorian badge features an upside-down TRIDENT and that the symbol appears again here as the names of the missiles that where being built in mainland California some 10-15 years later after AZORIAN.

Image



If the VAX computers that Riconosciuto redesigned according to the Biefield-Brown effect are real, then it must be that Raymond dropped that hint BECAUSE the Trident missiles used them for inertial calibrations and the symbol was always in plan sight.

As Raymond hinted, "electrogravitic communcitation" required knowledge of the "gravitational reference point" aka the "scalar at the center of mass dynamics" aka the "gyroscopic balance point". I can't believe I didn't think of the connection to computer guided missiles earlier.

And I'm hoping these image embeds work this time. The source is the Wikimedia commons so I'll be surprised if the forum rejects these ones.
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Re: David Packard's links Hughes Glomar and Catalinia

Post by natecull »

I do not think it is a COINCIDENCE that the Project Azorian badge features an upside-down TRIDENT and that the symbol appears again here as the names of the missiles that where being built in mainland California some 10-15 years later after AZORIAN.
Well. From my fairly ignorant outsider's perspective, where the simplest explanation is usually the best, I would rather make the guess that 1) public-facing names are ruled by the Rule of Cool: military people generally like powerful macho sounding names that could be the title of a heavy metal album and 2) Greek and Roman and sometimes Norse gods were in style from the 1950s through 1990s at least (perhaps less so in the 2020s), so 3) the trident, the symbol of the sea-god Neptune's power, just keeps getting used over and over again for any military thing having to do with watery goings-on.

The Trident missile then would have been named that because it was a missile for launching at sea, and a downward-pointing trident would also have been used for the Glomar Explorer because it was about going down into the ocean and doing cool stuff.

There doesn't have to be any more connection between the two other than that Water+War= Neptune = Trident in both cases.

Nate
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We'll find the time to show you, wonders never cease
Jan Lundquist
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Re: David Packard's links Hughes Glomar and Catalinia

Post by Jan Lundquist »

A surprising number of units have a Trident on their patch.

EARLY ON, names and designs were chosen by Victoria and Edwardian gentlemen in charge of Big Decisions. And in those days, "true" gentlemen were well -versed in the classics. Many had learned Greek and Latin in their boarding schools. Mythology was a natural name source for them.

But the Modernists and Post Modernists did away with that "stale and useless" stuff. To be versed in the classics today, means we can name all the Golden Oldies on the radio.

Jan
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