Townsend Brown 1936 and 1939. Georg Otto Erb 1945

Long-time Townsend Brown inquirer Jan Lundquist – aka 'Rose' in The Before Times – has her own substantial archive to share with readers and visitors to this site. This forum is dedicated to the wealth of material she has compiled: her research, her findings, and her speculations.
Post Reply
Jan Lundquist
Keeper of the Flame
Posts: 523
Joined: Sat Jan 14, 2023 7:19 pm
Spam Prevention: Yes

Townsend Brown 1936 and 1939. Georg Otto Erb 1945

Post by Jan Lundquist »

Over the months that we pored through her memories of life with Townsend, Linda Brown shared as many accounts as she could recall of family lore from the time before she was born. Some were stories she knows from her parents, some were relayed to her others who had reason to know.

She held a suspicion that it was no accident when her father lost his finger in a lathe “operated by another person". This event was reported to have happened at the Wise Foundry in Zanesville, on Christmas Eve of 1936. The Foundry specialized in building components for manufacturers of large electrical engines, but all that is known about Townsend’s activities there is that he was doing some experimental work for the US Navy.

The firm headquarters had burned down in February of that year, and intentionally, or unintentionally. the paper trail for this project was lost. (Intentionally, perhaps, because In addition to protecting all signals and codes, the Navy Security Command, created in 1935, was responsible for taking any steps needed to deny intelligence to enemy agents.)

In other news, from February, radium had been synthesized in the lab, for the first time ever, when Radium e (Bismuth 210) was created by the bombardment of bismuth with atomic particles.

Time Magazine, February 17, 1936. https://time.com/archive/6820798/science-radium-e/

Radium and its many isotopes would go on to play an outsized role in modern health care. Eldridge Johnson would fund a research center for their study at the University of Pennsylvania and John Trump would build a career on them.

On a lighter note, Townsend, too, seems to have been “playing around” with radium in 1935 and ’36. With Josephine as the producer of the Musical Revue Hospital Fundraiser, the Jorg Fasting dancers astounded the audience when the lights went down. All that could be seen of them were their hands and feet, glowing in the dark.

Townsend and Fasting, a Norwegian-American WW I Vet, may have also been part of an intelligence network with tentacles reaching into Norway, and Germany. The sole supplier of the heavy water necessary for the production of fissile atomic was a Norwegian hydroplant and it was important to know where the shipments went.

But side from its uses in health care and entertainment, somewhere along the line, someone discovered that radium-beryllium isotopes emitted a neutron particle stream with enough energy to split an atom. The challenge would be to apply this into a detonation device.


Fast forward to 1939:

As part of a major intelligence coup, the Allies received a inside information about the most advanced research projects being funded by the Wehrmacht. This was haul was achieved with the assistance of Norwegian intelligence, and the resulting Oslo Report is said to have played a significant role in the outcome of the war. The operation also landed a proximity switch from one of the German mines then wreaking havoc on commercial shipping.

Smyth/Smythe (Gone Dark) says that in 1939, Townsend organized a secret mission to retrieve a German mine. I think these two accounts are describing the same thing. Linda has told me that the man Townsend was to vet in Germany was someone he knew from a prior covert mission overseas. For this reason, I also believe that it was during this 1939 mission that Townsend first met the scientist he would see again in 1945..

We do not know who that man was, but a case can be made that it was Georg Otto Erb. Erb was a tremendously important player in Nazi science. He was a physicist with his own instrumentation design lab before the war, and his work at the time included “high tension apparatus” or electrical equipment designed to handle or generate very high voltages, typically exceeding 1,000 volts AC or 1,500 volts DC.

He was inducted into the military in 1940, but subsequently released and directed to focus his work on armaments, which he did, developing a great many types of detonation devices, using a variety of of proximity switches and batteries. He contributed to the V-2 rocket program, and had come up with the design of the two stage rocket motor, when he was arrested in 1944 on suspicion of favoring the enemy and sabotage. He managed to escape in April, 1945, in the pandemonium created by the advancing Russian troops.

Interrogation of Dr. George Otto Erb: Maria Veen A 5660 Near Coesfeld
Electrical Detonators-types of Fuzes
By D. Carmichael · 1945

https://www.google.com/books/edition/In ... CAAJ?hl=en


He is known today as the father of the thermal battery which is widely used in the manufacture of munitions warheads, and of the molten salt battery which may provide grid level energy storage. But I find no record of his activities after his initial interview at Coesfeld. Nor does his name appear in the roles of the Paperclip scientists who were brought to the United States.

It is possible that he was ultimately captured by the Russians. It is also possible that he was killed in the attack which resulted in Townsend’s wounding. For now he remains a mystery man.

But, In the weird shadow language that haunt this story, one of Erb’s assistants was named Charles Buhler. Yes, the same name, but unless he has found the fountain of youth, not the same Charles Buhler of recent fame for creating an electrocstatic, propellantless propulsion drive.

viewtopic.php?t=752

Jan
Last edited by Jan Lundquist on Thu Apr 24, 2025 5:31 pm, edited 2 times in total.
User avatar
Paul Schatzkin
The White Rabbit
Posts: 216
Joined: Tue May 20, 2008 12:50 am

Re: Townsend Brown 1936 and 1939. Georg Otto Erb 1945

Post by Paul Schatzkin »

.
Jan Lundquist wrote: Tue Apr 22, 2025 7:49 pm Linda has told me that the man Townsend was to vet in Germany was someone he knew from a prior covert mission overseas. For this reason, I also believe that it was during this 1939 mission that Townsend met the scientist he was to vet in 1945.

We do not know who that man was, but I believe a case can be made for Georg Otto Erb.
Which 'man that Townsend was to vet' are we actually talking about here?

Are you talking about the 'pear-shaped' mission in Germany after he parachuted into Germany near the end of World War II?

Because (checks book he wrote himself) according to the account I got from Boston / O'Riley / Twigsnapper, that individual didn't survive the ambush:
“A German soldier opened the door and stepped back. A man behind a table reached for something that he was going to hand to Dr. Brown, but the kid had stepped in by then and his senses went into overload. He drew and fired.
.
In the next instant a firefight erupted in the farmhouse, with German sentries adding fire from the periphery. When the shooting stopped, the German scientist – dressed as a common soldier – and three of the Americans including the radio operator were all dead.”


So that individual could not have been Georg Otto Erb, who lived until 1972.

Are we talking about another 'vetting' episode that I haven't covered?

Curiously (?) there is not a lot else to find online about Erb. I consulted my Mystic Oracle (ChatGPT, now a female agent named 'Quil') and this is all she could find:
Georg Otto Erb was a German physicist and engineer active during World War II. He is notably recognized for developing molten salt batteries intended for military applications. Although these batteries were not deployed before the war’s end, British Intelligence documented the technology, and the United States later adopted it for use in artillery fuses . 

Following the war, Erb was interrogated by Allied forces. A report titled Interrogation of Dr. George Otto Erb: Maria Veen A 5660 Near Coesfeld: Electrical Detonators-types of Fuzes details his involvement in the development of electrical detonators and various types of fuzes, including those for V-2 rockets and other munitions . 

Unfortunately, specific details about Erb’s birthplace, residences, and the full extent of his post-war activities are not readily available in the provided sources.
So... isn't that interesting??

So who was the scientist that O'Riley says was killed in the ambush? Does it matter?

And what additional 'vetting' episode are we talking about here?

While I'm at it... it has come to my attention that the 'high voltage scientist' that O'Riley and Twigsnapper retrieved with the aid of Hans Von Luck in a Russian POW camp was more than likely NOT Richard Miethe. I've taken a closer look at Miethe's bio and it does not dovetail nicely with the account I put in the book.

So what else is new?

-PS
Paul Schatzkin, author of 'The Man Who Mastered Gravity'
.
It's "a multigenerational project." What's your hurry?
.
"We will just sail away from the Earth, as easily as this boat pushed away from the dock" - TTB
Jan Lundquist
Keeper of the Flame
Posts: 523
Joined: Sat Jan 14, 2023 7:19 pm
Spam Prevention: Yes

Re: Townsend Brown 1936 and 1939. Georg Otto Erb 1945

Post by Jan Lundquist »

Paul, yes, i am discussing Townsends post war mission, in which, we have been told, the scientist was killed. Linda has said that Townsend was the only person who could vet that the man was who he claimed to be, because he was the only man who knew his face.

It has been said that proximity switches were the third greatest secret research project of the war, after radar and the atomic bomb. Nothing, not torpedoes, bombs, mines, nor rockets will explode at the distance for achieving optimal damage without a proximity switch. For example, A radar altimeter would serve as the last and final proximity switch for Little Boy and Fat Man.

According to oral histories from CalTech faculty, the construction of the detonation circuits that were activated by that switch were so delicate that only Ph.Ds were qualified to build them. This is the reason why half the CalTech rocket faculty was carved off and sent to China Lake Naval weapons center. One member of that group said they looked forward to working on the occaisional project from Professor Smythe's as those were the most interesting and challenging assignments.

As you can see, from Erb's preliminary interview at Coesfeld, he was aaalll over proximity switches, fuses, and batteries. But I have found only two mentions of the name, post WW II...one for patent for a battery, which seems to me to describe a battery created 30 years earlier.

And far more recently, a Georg Otto Erb who co-authored a paper about Quaternions. I think he said you could throw one of them out, but maybe I got that from Nate who seems to have a love/hate relationship with them.

Anyway, I will take Erb for the scientist in the pear-shaped mission, but assume that he did indeed die in the shootout. So who is a good Not-Miethe candidate for the Sarbacher/Twigsnapper rescue?

Jan
Post Reply