Thanks Andrew for that update. Its interesting that he would leave a note in the summer before he died, sort of figuring how much he had actually spent (Ot the Foundation had spent on his behalf) Its twice what I thought.
Do you know what his banking practice was at all? Was his Foundation still listed inside this country or was he holding other accounts outside the country. I am not sure how that works but isn't that all part of the "spy mentality". "Always keep some money set aside in a warm place, for your old age. I guess that Catalina fit the bill for him but it sure didn't look like there was any money left over. Its just really odd. Did Linda ever feel shortchanged I wonder? And what about the oldest boy( Jospeph?)
If the money he declared that he had spent on his experiments was in fact strictly "family money" was it right for him then to spend so much and not have anything left for his childrens inheritance. What did Joseph think?
Still working around my new job and am looking forward to Vegas in November. Thanks Andrew! Victoria
FOLLOW THE MONEY
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- Mysterious Redhead
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To be honest, I really didn't pay much attention to any banking records I might have come across - it really wasn't of interest to me at that time.
I won't get too much into Paul's story, but I do know that there was a strong opinion on Joseph's side of the family. It is my recollection that he may have felt somewhat slighted by the money Townsend was spending on research, however, the family fortune he felt entitled to was primarily lost in the great depression and not necessary spent on research (aside from the paltry $500,000, of course
). Unfortunately, this misconception was never corrected prior to Joseph's untimely death.
As to whether it was right for Townsend to spend so much money and not have left much for his children, I wouldn't want a child of mine telling me that I shouldn't spend so much of my money (which I earned) so that there can be some left over for them to enjoy after I die
Remember that these children were middle-aged adults when he passed away in 1985. If they weren't able to make their own way through life at that point, then there was a larger problem, although in reality there were some significant expenses left over that were a hardship on Linda for some years after his death. As we are discovering, his work appears important enough to warrant the expenses over the years.
It's a pity to see such a foolish thing like money come between a father and his son. Also, Josephine passed away some years after that, so any money would have gone towards her needs and enjoyment.
Andrew
I won't get too much into Paul's story, but I do know that there was a strong opinion on Joseph's side of the family. It is my recollection that he may have felt somewhat slighted by the money Townsend was spending on research, however, the family fortune he felt entitled to was primarily lost in the great depression and not necessary spent on research (aside from the paltry $500,000, of course
![Wink :wink:](./images/smilies/icon_wink.gif)
As to whether it was right for Townsend to spend so much money and not have left much for his children, I wouldn't want a child of mine telling me that I shouldn't spend so much of my money (which I earned) so that there can be some left over for them to enjoy after I die
![Smile :)](./images/smilies/icon_smile.gif)
Remember that these children were middle-aged adults when he passed away in 1985. If they weren't able to make their own way through life at that point, then there was a larger problem, although in reality there were some significant expenses left over that were a hardship on Linda for some years after his death. As we are discovering, his work appears important enough to warrant the expenses over the years.
It's a pity to see such a foolish thing like money come between a father and his son. Also, Josephine passed away some years after that, so any money would have gone towards her needs and enjoyment.
Andrew
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Re: FOLLOW THE MONEY
I just suggested to one of our newest members( Amalie) that she was welcomed to open an old inactive thread by just placing a post and bringing the subject to the top our of list. And when I happened to notice this I thought I would do the same and take my own advice!
It pleases me to see that even this early Paul was noting the mystical in this story. He was speaking of the relationship that sprang up between the young Townsend Brown and his bride to be .... Josephine Beale
"But on another level -- that mystical "how did he know what he knew?" level (the real reason we're ALL here...) -- it's equally likely that "they knew" generally, if not specifically, what was in store for them. In that light, I think it's safe to say that TTB and Jo chose each other because they both knew they were up for the journey.
TTB AND JO CHOSE EACH OTHER BECAUSE THEY BOTH KNEW THAT THEY WERE UP FOR THE JOURNEY."
Thats a pretty amazing observation. Linda
It pleases me to see that even this early Paul was noting the mystical in this story. He was speaking of the relationship that sprang up between the young Townsend Brown and his bride to be .... Josephine Beale
"But on another level -- that mystical "how did he know what he knew?" level (the real reason we're ALL here...) -- it's equally likely that "they knew" generally, if not specifically, what was in store for them. In that light, I think it's safe to say that TTB and Jo chose each other because they both knew they were up for the journey.
TTB AND JO CHOSE EACH OTHER BECAUSE THEY BOTH KNEW THAT THEY WERE UP FOR THE JOURNEY."
Thats a pretty amazing observation. Linda
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Re: FOLLOW THE MONEY
This has been an interesting thread to reread. Victoria this was a great post.
"Paul ...... Mark C. makes an interesting comment about these promising individuals having a "red light all over their heads? put there by the Caroline Group. Whats your take on that Paul? Do you think that is how this "Group" worked .... reaching out for people they could develop in secrecy? But surely not all could be drawn into a life of such secrecy!
And Josephine and Townsend. Shoot. They were keeping secrets in their home town and I'll just bet that they enjoyed that so maybe that was a profile that helped them BOTH pass. Maybe she had to pass the test too? Maybe the Caroline group realized at some point that he was the sort who could not go on alone.
My mind racing now ..... and if that is the case ... what happened then between Morgan and Linda? Damn. Victoria"
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Look at the age of this post folks. Sadly, I think as Paul " wrote the book" he was able to answer some of these questions , maybe the Morgan and Linda storyline especially...... sorry Victoria if it didn't resolve itself the way that you thought it might.
I can answer some of the questions that have been brought up in this thread though regarding my Dads " banking practices".
There were always bank account out side of the United States. For years and years he had an account with the " Bank of Nova Scotia" and also one in Nassau. There was an entity at one time called the Townsend Brown Foundation ( Nassau) which held most of Dads funds until he needed something but he would only draw out what he needed at one time. treating it almost as an allowance.. say a monthly draw for food and personal items. He never ( well he bought the log cabin in NC) but other than that all of the houses were rented properties so he had that expense .... I know that the income he got from the " Foundation" he declared and paid tax on. There were other things that they paid for directly but that would have all been under " research". I don't know who paid for Charles expenses but it wasn't Dad. Just before we left for Southern Seminary I happened to look over Dads shoulder while he was writing out a check for $100,000.00 to a research company in California ( Stanford) I remembered that particularly because of course I was pretty well egocentric at that moment and my mind was on my expenses that I knew were upcoming for my college in Virginia and with that sort of expediture I was concerned that the money would somehow be all gone by the time I needed some of it. Apparently that was not the case, at least for the first year. I imagine someday some intrepid reporter might be able to track that payment down but I wouldn't count on it being easy. I am sure that Stanford was keeping whatever they were doing really close to their chest in 1964.
It is true that while I worried a little bit over there not being money left over after the research got its payment ... (that was always first draw, the research) My brother took it much more personally and was ... whats a good word ... words .... miffed and disappointed ..... that the family fortune had been " squandered" in such a way.
I feel a little bit better now about that because Paul and I were able to dig back into the Zanesville records and most of that initial money was wiped out by the depression and there was none of it to pass on, so Joseph was a little mistaken in believing Dad squandered it all away. Still, money was being paid to Dad for services rendered and it was impossible for him to explain to his son where it was coming from ....so he could not correct Josephs impression. A very sad situation actually , Linda
"Paul ...... Mark C. makes an interesting comment about these promising individuals having a "red light all over their heads? put there by the Caroline Group. Whats your take on that Paul? Do you think that is how this "Group" worked .... reaching out for people they could develop in secrecy? But surely not all could be drawn into a life of such secrecy!
And Josephine and Townsend. Shoot. They were keeping secrets in their home town and I'll just bet that they enjoyed that so maybe that was a profile that helped them BOTH pass. Maybe she had to pass the test too? Maybe the Caroline group realized at some point that he was the sort who could not go on alone.
My mind racing now ..... and if that is the case ... what happened then between Morgan and Linda? Damn. Victoria"
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Joined: Mon Feb 20, 2006 7:06 am
Look at the age of this post folks. Sadly, I think as Paul " wrote the book" he was able to answer some of these questions , maybe the Morgan and Linda storyline especially...... sorry Victoria if it didn't resolve itself the way that you thought it might.
I can answer some of the questions that have been brought up in this thread though regarding my Dads " banking practices".
There were always bank account out side of the United States. For years and years he had an account with the " Bank of Nova Scotia" and also one in Nassau. There was an entity at one time called the Townsend Brown Foundation ( Nassau) which held most of Dads funds until he needed something but he would only draw out what he needed at one time. treating it almost as an allowance.. say a monthly draw for food and personal items. He never ( well he bought the log cabin in NC) but other than that all of the houses were rented properties so he had that expense .... I know that the income he got from the " Foundation" he declared and paid tax on. There were other things that they paid for directly but that would have all been under " research". I don't know who paid for Charles expenses but it wasn't Dad. Just before we left for Southern Seminary I happened to look over Dads shoulder while he was writing out a check for $100,000.00 to a research company in California ( Stanford) I remembered that particularly because of course I was pretty well egocentric at that moment and my mind was on my expenses that I knew were upcoming for my college in Virginia and with that sort of expediture I was concerned that the money would somehow be all gone by the time I needed some of it. Apparently that was not the case, at least for the first year. I imagine someday some intrepid reporter might be able to track that payment down but I wouldn't count on it being easy. I am sure that Stanford was keeping whatever they were doing really close to their chest in 1964.
It is true that while I worried a little bit over there not being money left over after the research got its payment ... (that was always first draw, the research) My brother took it much more personally and was ... whats a good word ... words .... miffed and disappointed ..... that the family fortune had been " squandered" in such a way.
I feel a little bit better now about that because Paul and I were able to dig back into the Zanesville records and most of that initial money was wiped out by the depression and there was none of it to pass on, so Joseph was a little mistaken in believing Dad squandered it all away. Still, money was being paid to Dad for services rendered and it was impossible for him to explain to his son where it was coming from ....so he could not correct Josephs impression. A very sad situation actually , Linda
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Re: FOLLOW THE MONEY
Linda,
As always thank you so much for that glimpse into something so sad I can barely stand it. So Joseph never did understand that it wasn't simply " family money" that his father was spending all of this time? So he probably felt that his father was just " skating" on the money that somehow he felt should be his inheritance? Brings up all kinds of thoughts to me there which are probably way to personal to vent and the fellow isn't around to defend himself. I just think the whole thing ended up so unfair for both father and son. Can you see it? And if he admitted to spending some 500,000 during his research then he also is admitting to putting money in that he EARNED but of course he can't say who paid him or what he was doing. I think of that picture of Dr. Brown looking at his tall son. So close and yet so very far away.
So when he paid taxes then Linda did he just put down " consultant services" and treat himself as a private contractor then? That way he is his own boss and who he actually was working for remains confidential?
And the Bank of Nova Scotia is an interesting banking channel. Is that the same thing as " offshore accounts?" I usually think some tropical island somewhere but maybe Nova Scotia qualifies also? I don't know too much about stuff like that but I'll bet there are alot of covert types that do. Victoria
As always thank you so much for that glimpse into something so sad I can barely stand it. So Joseph never did understand that it wasn't simply " family money" that his father was spending all of this time? So he probably felt that his father was just " skating" on the money that somehow he felt should be his inheritance? Brings up all kinds of thoughts to me there which are probably way to personal to vent and the fellow isn't around to defend himself. I just think the whole thing ended up so unfair for both father and son. Can you see it? And if he admitted to spending some 500,000 during his research then he also is admitting to putting money in that he EARNED but of course he can't say who paid him or what he was doing. I think of that picture of Dr. Brown looking at his tall son. So close and yet so very far away.
So when he paid taxes then Linda did he just put down " consultant services" and treat himself as a private contractor then? That way he is his own boss and who he actually was working for remains confidential?
And the Bank of Nova Scotia is an interesting banking channel. Is that the same thing as " offshore accounts?" I usually think some tropical island somewhere but maybe Nova Scotia qualifies also? I don't know too much about stuff like that but I'll bet there are alot of covert types that do. Victoria