NOTEPAD for RANDOM IDEAS

[natecull]

Not even counting the impact of the Internet , just ask yourself Nate. Would you and I have even been able to have this conversation fifty years ago?

Even twenty years ago... I think it was around 1988, my last high school year, when I was reading The Antigravity Handbook and puzzling over all these exotic references to Brown, Searl, Carr... making nothing of it but sure there was *something* there. Either this talk of manmade discs in the 50s-60s was bold-faced insanity or there was a huge cover-up, I couldn't tell which. And it was all photocopied samizdat underground-press stuff, no references, no way of contacting the authors. Weird and known only to a few geeks.

And now here I am talking to Linda Brown, the Mad Scientist's Beautiful Daughter herself... I love the Internet.

Yes... but it would have been an isolated conversation . Huh ... funny ... that would have been 1958. An interesting year. Let your mind take this entire forums threads back that far. What would the reactions have been then to what Paul has been saying THEN.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1958

The International Geophysical Year in full swing... Bobby Fischer wins US Chess Championship at 14... Sputnik falls to earth, Explorer 1 launched... Van Allen Belts discovered... the word 'aerospace' coined... CND peace symbol designed... NORAD agreement signed, the Distant Early Warning Line having been completed... Alaska becomes a state... USS Nautilus crosses the North Pole... first integrated circuit built... NACA becomes NASA... Smurfs created... Largest recorded solar maximum... Subscriber Trunk Dialling inaugurated in the UK... instant noodles first go on sale.

NORAD and NASA, born together as the Cold War gets Arctic. Hmm.

And as for noodles, we all knew they were alien technology.

Try walking for just a few moments in that year and you will see the changes already in conciousness and vision. Sometimes we are further along than we think, and we just don't give each other enough credit for the positive ground that has been covered.

Indeed. The rise of the anti-nuclear movement is something I find very positive, though it's a bit depressing to see how it all blew apart after 1990. But I think George W Bush has been an extremely good influence since then, as he's polarised a lot of people formerly on the fence into deciding that they don't want a new eternal war against terrorism. Especially Gen-Xers like me who've been wondering where we fit. Action and reaction...

Your Posts are very interesting and helpful Nate, thanks for joining. Linda

Thank you.

[natecull]

Also interesting in 1958:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avro_Arrow

The Canadian CF-105 Avro Arrow interceptor begins flight tests... and is abruptly cancelled the next year, under still-controversial circumstances.

Edit: Within two months, all Arrow blueprints and materials are destroyed (ostensibly for fear of infiltration by Soviet moles). The Arrow chief aerodynamicist http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Chamberlin and 32 other A.V.Roe employees are folded into NASA's Space Task Group.

The cancellation of the Arrow and its replacement by the American atomic-armed CF-101 Voodoo is so unpopular that it brings down the Canadian government in 1963.

Meanwhile, the A.V.Roe 'saucer' program started in 1952 is ended by 1961 with the cancellation of the Avrocar.

1958 seems to have been a key year - the beginning of total USA dominance of North American aerospace.

[Mikado14]

Also interesting in 1958:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avro_Arrow

The Canadian Avro Arrow interceptor begins flight tests... and is abruptly cancelled the next year, under still-controversial circumstances.

More political than anything. But hey, Trickfox, your Canadian aren't you? What say?

That era may have been under Diefenbaker's reign but then, I thought that was the name of Benton Fraser's dog.

Mikado

[Linda Brown]

1958 was a good year for me personally. Thats when I got my first horse, lived in a log cabin in the woods of North Carolina, had a bunch of friends that didn't greet me with the normal giggles about the new kid ... they were wonderful kids and riding with some of them or alone with my mare with the Mountain Laurel as tall as I was on horseback ... that was pretty special.

So its helpful to put myself there and then read what you have put together. Some of it I knew ( NASA, for example...) some of it I didn't..."Largest recorded solar maximum" .... I did not know that.

Hahaha .... the mad scientist and his daughter indeed. Sometimes I think that we must have really struck people that way. I always set up the equipment ( designed some of it, proud to say) and then would " fade " into the woodwork for the duration of whatever demonstration it was. I have had interesting experiences, certainly ... been glowered at by Dr. Teller .... had General Curtis Lemay stand on my lab stool to change the light there for me ... now, no matter how you slice it ... that was a special moment. Expecially since I later learned that he was so tough on his men they called him " Iron Pants Lemay".... but this exact moment is the one that I treasure the most, being able to be on this forum and interact with all of you. Perhaps much more special for me to make your acquaintance than the other way around I think.

And I hope that the Internet will bring more and more of us together. Shed more and more light on this story. The one advantage ( and disadvantage ) we have now is that most people who were active in the fifties and in this story are getting much much older now. The good part about it is (if they should decide to step forward to help us with the details of Pauls book) they hopefully will be less constrained and more prone to just say what they want to say. At least thats the way I hope it goes.

But this story had to be out there so they could respond to it and I am really proud of Pauls efforts here. As you said .... most other accounts are so foggy that you can't trace them back historically. Paul you will all find is doing his absolute best to stand on solid ground. Thats why I know that his words will stand the test of time.

Thanks again Nate. ( you haven't said if "Nate "was OK to us. ???? Linda

[natecull]

'Nate' is just fine, yes.

I truly don't know if any of this historical background is important, but I find it fascinating putting together, as Paul has, your very personal story with the 'big events' in geopolitics and science at the time.

In 1958, I think my Mum was doing art school in Christchurch, New Zealand and my Dad was either doing a year with the Royal New Zealand Air Force or was working at the National Airways Corporation. A couple of years later, my parents met and got married. The Operation Deep Freeze Antarctic program had been going a couple of years and Christchurch was starting to become a US staging post for quietly secret military 'channel flights' including Pine Gap, which it remains to this day.

We all looked up to America then, I think, as a sort of benign 'big brother' who had saved us from the Nazis and Russians and most especially the Japanese, and living on the edge of Asia and the Pacific, with the British Empire broken up and retreating, we felt fairly insecure without Uncle Sam. It wasn't until the 1980s and Reagan that anti-US sentiment reached a tipping point and we partially broke from ANZUS (but not UKUSA) over the nuclear ships issue.

Part of me really doesn't know what to make of the 1990s mainstreaming of UFO cynicism. I was ahead of that curve in the 80s, but I'm still that high-school kid reading about impossible physics and wondering 'but where could they hide them, and why don't they use them?' With a father working in civilian air travel and doing design work for Deep Freeze, I never had any particular fear or distrust of planes. Everything seemed to be out in the open; we got free Boing 737 flights, I could get behind the fences and look at the Hercules coming in. I used to daydream about Apollo and it took me years to realise I wasn't a US citizen and the moon program was pretty much over before I was born. But then there were those underground antigravity stories. So I had a head full of spin, and still do.

[natecull]

Anyone seen this? Think it might be a fun book to get?
http://www.iseti.us/

[AM]

It's been a somewhat busy week for me, therefore let me just chime in with a brief comment.

Ms. Brown is trying to draw our attention to the year 1958. 1958 probably has a multi-layered meaning, but for starters I will make references to those words that immediately hit my eye.

So its helpful to put myself there and then read what you have put together. Some of it I knew ( NASA, for example...) some of it I didn't..."Largest recorded solar maximum" .... I did not know that.

This is certainly very interesting, given the fact that exactly 50 years after this "largest recorded solar maximum" we have entered the 24th solar cycle which may be the most intensive ever recorded. The current cycle will reach it's maximum in 2012.

Conrad C. Lautenbacher, administrator of NOAA argues that our ever growing dependency of high complexity electronic systems for our daily activities are threatened by electromagnetic pulses generated during violent magnetic storms. For example, in 1989, during a massive mass ejection from the Sun's surface, a large part of Canada and the U.S. suffered a power loss for more than nine hours. Again, in 1998, in a similar chain of events, the satellite Galaxy 4 was left nonoperational, causing a wide communication breakup.

An evaluation of the solar activity status made in April last year predicted that the 24th solar cycle will most probably begin in March 2008, with an error of plus/minus six months. Nevertheless, the evaluation team couldn't decide whether the next solar cycle will present a strong or weak activity.

...

March surely is a popular month for our Sun.

During the solar minimum, the sunspot number can be as low as 10. In July 1989, during the last solar maximum, it peaked at 159. And in March 1958, it reached 201, the highest level ever recorded.

And consider that in 2012, when the current solar cycle will reach it's peak, we will also have an alignment of our solar system with the center of our galaxy.

In this conext keep in mind that the "Long Count" version of the Mayan calendar will end. The 13th baktun, the last baktun will reach it's conclusion on winter solstice 2012. For further references please read: http://www.levity.com/eschaton/Why2012.html

From all of the above we can conclude that massive amounts of various kinds of radiation will progressively flood the Earth and thereby significantly influence electronic and biological systems.

The last solar maximum was in 2001, and on March 10, 2006 NASA researchers announced that the next cycle would be the strongest since the historic maximum in 1958 in which northern lights could be seen as far south as Mexico. [1] This projection was based on research done by Mausumi Dikpati of the National Center for Atmospheric Research (NCAR).

During solar maximum, sunspots appear.

Solar maximum is the period when the sun's magnetic field lines are the most distorted due to the magnetic field on the solar equator rotating at a slightly faster pace than at the solar poles.

It would be interesting to see if Dr. Brown conducted any research into the effects of the 1958-solar maximum - especially in context with sidereal radiation.

Further it is interesting that Dr. Brown "officially" ceased to take notes in October 1958.

For the period from October 1958 till October 1967 we have no notebooks publicly available. These are the years of the "missing" notebooks.

Why October 1958? Why not November or December? What happened or better to say started happening in October 1958? Dr. Brown probably achieved some sort of a major breakthrough.

The most interesting in this respect is the following quote.

In plotting the lines of force in various electrode configurations, it becomes apparent that some rather surprising results could be produced which, at first glance, would seem to be in direct violation of the basic electrostatic laws.

What follows is even more interesting.

When outer electrode is uncharged, the two oppositely charged electrodes are attracted. When it is charged as shown, repulsion results.

Repulsion of oppositely charged hemispheres.

Then we have Morgan making curious references to the month of August of the same year.

However, in August of 1958 something major happened which changed his course suddenly and drew him almost immediately into the organization that I now call home. As in my situation, this move was encouraged by old ties put together initially by the Caroline Group. Again details will slowly follow…

...

Before Brown’s input it took nearly eight hours to get a message flash (CRITIC, the highest priority) from somewhere ... say ... Moscow. By August 1958 the time had been cut to 52 minutes and now it’s down to… well, the human is the slowest thing in the process...

Let us not forget Dr. Brown's work on his "tunnel" diode in 1957 and the research connected to the OHT-radar in Florida (the cesium-cloud seedings).

The above improvement in communications might be connected to Dr. Brown's research in Florida.

Then there was the following interesting thing occuring in October 1958.

On October 30, 1958, Bahnson describes a visit to the lab by Dr. Jonas Whitten and Dr. Daniel Kahn, both representing the Glenn L. Martin Company. The third item in the agenda is a presentation on the subject of "Electrohydrodyamics by T.T.B."

And finally I have taken a look at what our good, old U.S.S. Cutlass was doing at that time.

In 1958 she sailed on a north European cruise, visiting Rosyth, Scotland, Copenhagen and Korsor, Denmark, and passing through the Kiel Canal.

The second major thing regarding 1958 that attracted my attention is the fact that the Geophysical Year started in this period.

The International Geophysical Year or IGY was an international scientific effort that lasted from July 1, 1957, to December 31, 1958.

The IGY encompassed eleven Earth sciences: aurora and airglow, cosmic rays, geomagnetism, gravity, ionospheric physics, longitude and latitude determinations (precision mapping), meteorology, oceanography, seismology and solar activity.

Let me leave it here.

AM

[natecull]

Before Brown’s input it took nearly eight hours to get a message flash (CRITIC, the highest priority) from somewhere ... say ... Moscow. By August 1958 the time had been cut to 52 minutes and now it’s down to… well, the human is the slowest thing in the process...

That's interesting, given that the other big thing happening in military command-and-control at the time was SAGE, the Semi-Automated Ground Environment - the grandfather of most of our modern interactive computer systems. Estimated to have cost more than the Manhattan Project. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semi_Autom ... nvironment

SAGE invented 300 baud modems, I believe. The 1958 state of the art in data communications was pretty darn slow by today's standards.

[AM]

That's interesting, given that the other big thing happening in military command-and-control at the time was SAGE, the Semi-Automated Ground Environment -the grandfather of most of our modern interactive computer systems. Estimated to have cost more than the Manhattan Project.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semi_Autom ... nvironment

SAGE invented 300 baud modems, I believe. The 1958 state of the art in data communications was pretty darn slow by today's standards.

Now, what do we have here? Very interesting.

Then think of the discussion around the Gaston Burridge-article that is going on in the Epilogue-thread.

Am

[AM]

Another interesting parallel: Mr. Schatzkin finished Dr. Brown's biography end of February 2008.

50 years after 1958.

[Linda Brown]

Just from my kids viewpoint, looking back on October of 1958

By mid October we had already moved to Leesburg Virginia again, and by the end of the month I was again enrolled in the local Leesburg school.

(just to help newcomers get a handle on the quickness of these moves... for those who are not familiar with our families ability to shift locations quickly ..... we left Virginia in the early spring of 1957 ... bound for Florida ... by the spring of 1958 we were in North Carolina ... by the spring of 1959 we had moved again from Leesburg to Alexandria Virginia.

I was aware that there was a "lab" nearby but was never allowed to visit it. ......... And though Dad wrote in that one lab notebook (#2 I think) that " no notes were taken from October 1958 to 1967 "I was aware that he was still writing in a little black journal book. Of course I didn't find that at all strange. I didn't realize at the time that this represented a " second set" and that he had stopped writing in the first. They looked identical to me so I never even took note.

I don't know if that helps at all. But at the time .... thats all I knew. Linda

[FM No Static At All]

That's interesting, given that the other big thing happening in military command-and-control at the time was SAGE, the Semi-Automated Ground Environment - the grandfather of most of our modern interactive computer systems. Estimated to have cost more than the Manhattan Project. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semi_Autom ... nvironment

SAGE invented 300 baud modems, I believe. The 1958 state of the art in data communications was pretty darn slow by today's standards.

I think you will find John Von Neumann was involved in the SAGE development, and its use at Fort Hero, Montauk, NY. The was just after the time of he alleged Rainbow Project. From what I have "heard" about Von Neuman, he was genius but did not like T.T.Brown. His main beef was that there was no degrees to support his work. Ha!

Fly me to the moon
And let me play among the stars

Fred

[Linda Brown]

Not being at all protective of my Dad ( well...... maybe .... just a little <g>) but I would really like to know who had quoted that Von Nueman didn't care for my Dad because of his lack of credentials? Just trying to figure who might have quoted that and if it was true. Do you remember who had said that?

It doesn't suprise me that there were those upset with my Dad for not having his degree, (especially when they were placed under his direction in certain projects).

I think that first happened during that S48 submarine tour. ( His being referred to as Doctor Brown) That cruise presented some real problems of protocol for him! Not being an officer, he couldn't eat with the officers really in their cabin and since he was a member of the scientific party he couldn't really eat with the crew! He said at one time that he was worried that his Mess Hall would end up being the deck! awash!

I understand too that the same thing happened with Beau Kitselman, according to one of his daughters. She said that people were upset that he did not have his docorate either.

Somewhere along the line someone in the Navy decided to call my Dad " Doctor Brown" and those who worked with him in his labs continued to refer to him that way. He was always very careful to disclose to those new to the lab that he was not actually a Dr. but that didn't stop them from referring to him very respectfully as " Doctor Brown" and people still do it, I notice.

Did your source say if Von Nueman and Dad worked directly together? Just curiosity at this point! Linda

[FM No Static At All]

Not being at all protective of my Dad ( well...... maybe .... just a little <g>) but I would really like to know who had quoted that Von Nueman didn't care for my Dad because of his lack of credentials? Just trying to figure who might have quoted that and if it was true. Do you remember who had said that?

Did your source say if Von Nueman and Dad worked directly together? Just curiosity at this point! Linda

Von Neumann was an arrogant s.o.b. that was jealous of anyone that mettled in his "field". But his field was quite broad. He may have consulted with others, but from what I can gather, Von Neumann worked alone. Von Neumann and Tesla were involved with USS Eldridge, but not your father because he saw dangers in what they were attempting. This "source" claimed it was this reason (an argument with a naval officer who used rank instead of science to push forward) your father resigned from the navy. (This what my source said)

Tesla also warned them that the types of energy they are dealing with can harm people if they are not properly shielded. He was NOT present during the test.

In a previous post I wrote of a family friend who was a radar technician at Willow Grove Naval Air and the Yard in South Philadelphia. He was a witness to an experiment that went terribly wrong in 1943. He never spoke to anyone about the incident, but I did many years later. I mentioned the name of the ship and this guy freaked! I said "That's okay, I know. We'll talk about later." But I never did get to have that talk with Harry.

I do know that something happened in 1963 in regards to an aberration or anomaly in time. My reality change in the summer of that year. And I am pretty sure that was the summer I encountered my first UFO experience. A "cigar" shaped craft about twice the size of the blimps we regularly watched fly over. No gondola and no engine drone.

I am wondering now if the Caroline Group and your father were the "firemen", you know, putting out those fires created by others?

Fred

[Trickfox]

I don't want to throw cold water on a good mystery here but you see we have tried carefully to keep eroneous information and disinformation from creeping into the history of Thomas Towsend Brown's work with others.

If you have a source of information that describes this relationship between Van Neumann, and Tesla,....AND Thomas Townsend Brown, -then you have a responsibility to seek evidence which could prove that your source is not making this up. If you cannot divulge your source, you have to think about telling us why you would believe such a person.

Otherwise I am tempted to believe only Linda Brown's version of her father's relationship with such important physicists of those decades.

Trickfox