Epilogue: The Sound of Time

[Paul S.]

I kind of wish we had a Wiki here...

That's actually an interesting idea... how would that work? Any thoughts on how to set it up?

I know there are some public Wiki sites, like pbwiki.com We could perhaps start there...?

so many names, events, and organisations to juggle.

Ya think?

--PS

[natecull]

There is no military action which could destroy the will of suicidal solders. it's a tactic that Tsun Soo knew all too well.

Yes, that much is clear, but not only that, what puzzles me is that we're apparently not even seeing the US military *attempt* to use exotic Townsend Brown descended technologies in Afghanistan and Iraq, despite those wars bleeding cash and manpower to the point that serious observers consider they could bankrupt the USA and end its empire. However, suicide opponents or not, the US military *are* rushing the deployment of all sorts of half-finished bleeding-edge tech into Afghanistan and Iraq: iRobot Packbots (with or without machine guns), conventionally-propelled UAVs like the Predator, microwave Area Denial systems. In the wider global theater, we're also seeing the accelerated deployment of Missile Defence systems (widely reputed to be extremely buggy, but pressed into service nonetheless), the recent demonstration of a apy satellite shootdown from a US submarine, and hostile crashes/shootdowns of B2s with what appeared to be simple air-to-ground weaponry. On the speculative front, there've been mentions of potential future development of gamma-ray burst explosives, the advocacy of the development of nuclear 'bunker busters', and reconfiguration of ICBMs to deliver conventional warheads like cruise missiles. In Homeland Security, there were even brief mentions of things like brain scanning using evoked potentials in response to subliminal images, as a means of screening potential terrorists, and the ongoing networking of Internet Service Providers into automated wiretapping systems.

But nowhere in all this flood of sci-fi information has there been even the merest hint that the USA possesses any kind of gravity technology. That means to me that these technologies are not part of the palette available to US war planners today, even at the most esoteric paper-only planning level. Nobody who makes actual battles happen would appear to have heard of them. Neither has US intelligence benefitted from any magic viewing portals in the Middle East, it would seem; the same miscalculations and stuffups are still going on. As in Vietnam, the US military has been spectacularly and publically outclassed and embarrassed by a bunch of guys with homemade bombs. Who does that leave who counts?

It seems that either the 21st Century battlespace is not at all well suited to the frontline deployment of TT Brown technologies - which seems bizarre as surely robotic UAVs would be an obvious, easy, use of antigrav or even ion wind - or that the people who have these technologies are NOT part of the US military and in fact don't even care whether the US survives as a nation in the present conflict. This would seem diametrically opposed to the activities of William Stephenson and his group in WW2: very hands-on, very much engaged with the military, very pro-US and UK.

Alternatively, perhaps these technologies exist in prototype form in absolute secrecy but there are substantial technical problems, on the order of controlled hot fusion, which have prevented them from producing easily deployable devices after fifty years of research. But then, what are all these hints about glowing blue things in Texas?

I can't make any of these puzzle pieces fit together in a plausible form, yet. What am I missing?

[natecull]

I kind of wish we had a Wiki here...

That's actually an interesting idea... how would that work? Any thoughts on how to set it up?

I know there are some public Wiki sites, like pbwiki.com We could perhaps start there...?

--PS

A hosted wiki might be a quick way to get started, or you could install a wiki engine on a website you control. If you do, I'd recommend pmwiki.org, it's a simple little wiki that doesn't need a database, just a file system, so should be dead easy to install. It can be locked down with passwords or left wide open.

[FM No Static At All]

But nowhere in all this flood of sci-fi information has there been even the merest hint that the USA possesses any kind of gravity technology. That means to me that these technologies are not part of the palette available to US war planners today, even at the most esoteric paper-only planning level. Nobody who makes actual battles happen would appear to have heard of them. Neither has US intelligence benefitted from any magic viewing portals in the Middle East, it would seem; the same miscalculations and stuffups are still going on. As in Vietnam, the US military has been spectacularly and publically outclassed and embarrassed by a bunch of guys with homemade bombs. Who does that leave who counts?

It seems that either the 21st Century battlespace is not at all well suited to the frontline deployment of TT Brown technologies - which seems bizarre as surely robotic UAVs would be an obvious, easy, use of antigrav or even ion wind - or that the people who have these technologies are NOT part of the US military and in fact don't even care whether the US survives as a nation in the present conflict. This would seem diametrically opposed to the activities of William Stephenson and his group in WW2: very hands-on, very much engaged with the military, very pro-US and UK.

Alternatively, perhaps these technologies exist in prototype form in absolute secrecy but there are substantial technical problems, on the order of controlled hot fusion, which have prevented them from producing easily deployable devices after fifty years of research. But then, what are all these hints about glowing blue things in Texas?

I can't make any of these puzzle pieces fit together in a plausible form, yet. What am I missing?

You are assuming that US/UK was what "they" were about. Remember, we are dealing with a global consortium, that for the most part is not interested in politics or economy in the general sense. They seem to be more interested in preventing other groups from gaining access to technologies that would reduce the planet to rubble.

As for the technology of TTB et. al., Yeah, maybe some of those glowing blue things in Texas were US made, but that is classified. We only learn about such things when it is in the military's best interest to release the information. The CIA flew the SR-71 several years before the U2 was retired, and there are still capabilities of that craft that remains classified.

The stealth weapons used in the Gulf War and again in Iraq were not "known" until they were spotted over Baghdad and flying sorties during Desert Storm. CNN did not have as much presence in Baghdad this time (nor did other news agencies). The UAV's being used were not made public until Iran started to fly reversed engineered versions.

Think of it like all of those intelligence agencies putting out data on a need to know basis.

Fred

[natecull]

You are assuming that US/UK was what "they" were about. Remember, we are dealing with a global consortium, that for the most part is not interested in politics or economy in the general sense. They seem to be more interested in preventing other groups from gaining access to technologies that would reduce the planet to rubble.

Sorry to be a stick-in-the-mud about this, but with all due regard to all the participants here and their various presumably interesting insider histories, from my point of view as a visitor here it's only being *alleged*, not proven, that we're dealing with such a global consortium at all. That's precisely the part of this story that I'm finding hardest to fit into my reality map. It all seems a bit too X-Files and Da Vinci Code, not to mention Protocols of Zion: a story neatly packaged to fit into the combined cynicism and technology-fetishism of our time. Why do we *need* to believe that there is a 'them' with a big-picture view at all, not just a bunch of little 'us'es? In whose interest is it that we are being asked to believe this?

I've read the book. I see ready support for William Stephenson and friends' fledgling intelligence community being a quasi-private enterprise, possibly with their own agenda, but that's just where the view gets fuzzy.

A group of people from the UK, USA and Canada with deep stakes in the communications industries and the CIA/MI6 spy game met in the 1930s on a yacht called the Caroline. Unsurprisingly, a number of these intelligence professionals kept in touch with each other during the Cold War and continued to work on secret projects, and not all of those projects have yet seen the light of day. That, to me, is all that we have in terms of solid, proven facts about 'The Caroline Group'.

How do we get from there to talking and nodding knowingly about the Knights Templar and ley-lines? Is there something I've missed that would make this a necessary inference?

[Langley]

...for best post ever:

Im having trouble with the concept of stealth blimps.

Bit like Pamela Anderson putting on a Clingon Cloaking T shirt.

In the rain.

Except I think it's "Klingon," with a "K"

--PS

Freudian Grasp sorry.

In its weaponised form its the Taser Bra.


Actually I think a fleet of blimps would be a peace inducing thing, buts that just me.....

[Langley]

[
How do we get from there to talking and nodding knowingly about the Knights Templar and ley-lines? Is there something I've missed that would make this a necessary inference?

My problem is that one of my baselines is the Deyo theme of the need for the movers and shakers to prepare for the economic transition necessary for the introduction for the technology. That is, if conventional technology is rendered obsolete overnight, in order to maintain their place the top end of towns had to already be in a position to happily loose their stakes in the old while having ownership of the "new". That requires cooperation as the currency which enabled trading in the old will go down the gurgler with it.

Lets call the new means of exchange the Phoenix, 1 P being a global unit.

If there is a Caroline Group, I surmise it will be attempting to liberate the current bucks from this, so as to maintain some hope of regional autonomy in the world of tomorrow.

From here of course, one can descend rapidly into chaotic conspiracy theory (not that mine is particularly organised, but it has some coherency).

Of course to envisage the Phoenix as a coinage and note would be I think wrong. It would be electronic. And access to it would depend upon signing up to an agenda and a global order. I need not go further. Its an old hat, but it fits on the head I think.

If one starts the supression (ie control) of this alternate set of views which gives rise to and finds expression in the technology at Tesla, the start date can be cast back decades earlier.

And when one incorporates the gist of the civil libertarians into the time line you come to a socio political thread which weaves very well with the socio science.

If one was missing the other wouldnt be (according to this view) needed.

If the technology is there, its suppressed. If its suppressed its for political reasons. the military thing is merely politics by other means.

The target of this program is the individual. No submarines needed.

Just a morgage one cant pay and an offer of a way out.

Paranoid huh?

Id really rather think about Blimps.

[natecull]

My problem is that one of my baselines is the Deyo theme of the need for the movers and shakers to prepare for the economic transition necessary for the introduction for the technology. That is, if conventional technology is rendered obsolete overnight, in order to maintain their place the top end of towns had to already be in a position to happily loose their stakes in the old while having ownership of the "new". That requires cooperation as the currency which enabled trading in the old will go down the gurgler with it.

Lets call the new means of exchange the Phoenix, 1 P being a global unit.

If there is a Caroline Group, I surmise it will be attempting to liberate the current bucks from this, so as to maintain some hope of regional autonomy in the world of tomorrow.

Interesting idea.

What, I wonder, would such a Caroline Group have made of the economic prospects for atomic energy in the late 1940s?

Today, as in the 1970s, it's all Peak Oil, all the time, but looking back at the 1950s-60s it was all 'the Atom is the power source of the future', with oil seen as merely a transition fuel, or maybe feedstock for plastics and agriculture. And all those companies with hopeful names like 'General Atomics' and Tom Swift, Jr, with His Flying Lab and his atomic batteries.

Future's so bright
I gotta wear shades...

Seems to me any kind of future-planning group that was around in that era might have looked at energy somewhat differently from we do now. And then had to do a bit of a rethink around the 1970s, as the problems with radiation shielding, minaturisation and disposal of all those Atoms For Peace turned out to be a lot bigger than expected.

[natecull]

(following up myself)

The next question is 'if the Caroline Group is so good at burying energy technology, how come they missed the ball so spectacularly with atomic fission'?

The hair-trigger Cold War and nuclear proliferation doesn't seem like it was a particularly useful outcome for anyone.

[Langley]

[quote="natecull"](following up myself)

So the bottom line for me is OK this transformational technology if it is there, would empower the individual.

And the empowered individual is a threat to centralism.

And so its logical to suppress the technology until society has attained a character in which control of the individual in the pursuit of Order and Security for the group is seen as a good thing.

dissent is still possible. Therefore it is still hidden.

And yea, OK maybe I need to take my tablet but,

http://www.singleglobalcurrency.org/doc ... ix_001.doc


If the Caroline Group arent dissenters, well Im not interested.

[natecull]

www.singleglobalcurrency.org/documents/ ... ix_001.doc

Interestingly enough, right at the end of WW2 (1944), John Maynard Keynes proposed such a unified international currency, at least for the purposes of international trade, called the Bancor: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bancor

It was never implemented, the US Dollar becoming the standard instead, leading to the rise (and current teetering on the edge of collapse) of the US as financial superpower.

I'm not sure if there's a moral in that or not.

[kevin.b]

Natecull,
You are viewing the universe/s from a fixed point upon the surfce of this planet, and trying to comprehend everything from there, as are the vast over whelming majority of people, they know no different.

We are possibly like children playing in a play ground, if you were to be able to view this place from another observation area.
Do you want the children who have a tendancy to throw sticks and stones at each other to really have the keys to some universal devices of total destruction?
And if all of the different universes are connected like filaments, if a sudden expansion occurs upon one filament , it will be transferred along and outward to all adjoining universes.
Unfortunately , the armed forces are trained to kill, to win.
I heard the cry "Nuke em " many times when those towers came down, the three towers.

Lets say that you had the ability to target a given area, say a continent, and merely dissolve the top few feet off .
Would you trust our present leaders with such a device?

Time will tell, time is in all directions at once, so hopefully we will see what has occured before, and not make the same mistakes again.
it may need a stalling program , to enable the correct time to roll around again .
if this is what has occured, a big thank you is required, a really big thank you.
kevin

[AM]

If the Caroline Group arent dissenters, well Im not interested.

COULDN'T AGREE MORE!

[Linda Brown]

Thank you for your note kevin, navigator, hobbit.

"Time will tell, time is in all directions at once, so hopefully we will see what has occured before, and not make the same mistakes again.
it may need a stalling program , to enable the correct time to roll around again .
if this is what has occured, a big thank you is required, a really big thank you.
kevin"

Only Time Will Tell. Linda

[Paul S.]

natecull,

I have just taken the time to read carefully through your "multi-phased" assessment of the actually storylines that have been set for the book. I commend you for taking the time to sort through all the myriad possibilities that the narrative triggers, none of which come to any really fulfillment or conclusion, all of which arrive at an endlessly confusing slate of ... precisely the possibilities you have outlined.

When you really try to add it all up, well, it's just one dark alley and one sticky wicket after another, isn't it? It almost demands an approach like Lewis Carroll used: "Of course your mad... we're all mad here... you wouldn't be here if you weren't mad...." (see Chapter 41 for the exact quote).

Absent concrete info beyond what I've been able to round up, all of your scenarios are equally plausible. But I think I find your speculation about 'The Carolines' the most intriguing -- particularly in light of some commentary other posters have recently offered by way of passing judgment on their motives or agendas. To wit:

4) Like 3, but as well as cracking gravity control, Brown was also a member of an elaborate, privately-funded conspiracy group (the Carolines) which was active at the highest levels of the US/UKA military research/intelligence complex, acting for all intents and purposes as a James Bond villain-type organisation (but with noble intentions), far more organised and effective than the Soviets and their moles, never once being detected until members of that group decided to contact Paul and 'spill the beans'.

That's the passage that spurred me to comment. Because I think you over estimate the extent to which "the Carolines" have been willing to reveal themselves.

Specifically, I think "spill the beans" may be over-stating the case somewhat. They show you the bag, sure. You can watch them open it and turn it over. But then it turns out to be an "antigravity bean bag." Even completely upside down, the beans don't really spill out.

You just know there are beans in there.

And so it goes.

--PS