Epilogue: The Sound of Time

Use this section for any discussion specifically related to the chapters posted online of the unfolding biography, "Defying Gravity: The Parallel Universe of T. Townsend Brown
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kevin.b
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Post by kevin.b »

Elizabeth helen Drake,
I don't know how to access those lawrence files, so I began typing things in their search box, eventually with typing SPEED OF LIGHT, I got some hits.
I scrolled down the left hand column to speeches, I think you and langley may be interested in the speech contents?
Langley may be better at using their search box.
There are speechs about the cyclotron, the dates are interesting.
kevin
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kevin.b
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Post by kevin.b »

Mr Twigsnapper,
" You must learn to smile sometimes "
Either you feel I am been too serious , or there is a move concerning a smile?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cheshire_Cat
http://www.animationusa.com/wd02/cmap/cmapwd217n.htm

This grinning cat in Alices adventures kept dissappearing, and the grin has always attracted me , as I see in straight lines that create curves.
I can see why you smiled at me suggesting that I was going to fly about in a pink pig, looking at those badges.
I have a large board full of those badges from Upper Heyford base, will have to dig it out.
And talking of memory, how can I remember things from forty years ago, if nothing moves faster than the speed of light?
It should take forty years to remember things from forty years ago?
There must be a short cut across such linear time.
kevin
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Langley
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Re: so where now?

Post by Langley »

Elizabeth Helen Drake wrote:Langley?

Where are we going next with this?
Charles Pecher? Research Corporation? 1947?
Geoff?

OK editing in here .... now this is interesting though I am not sure how I got here ..........

http://content.cdlib.org/view?docId=tf0 ... &brand=oac

Thinking of you though I don't understand much of this the thing that reaches out and slaps at me are the words RADIATION LAB ... and Paul when you get home and get your ears on I am wondering if thats the exact wording of a notiation in Dr. Browns daybook sometime during the spring of 1962? I admit. Its a long reach. But........

"SERIES 1: GENERAL FILES
This series consists primarily of professional correspondence, memoranda and telegrams of Ernest O. Lawrence, Joseph G. Hamilton, Donald Cooksey and Robert L. Thornton; and letters written by various members of the Lawrence family. The remainder of the correspondence is to and from other members of the Radiation Laboratory. Subject matter covered by the correspondence includes experiments at the Radiation Laboratory and at other facilities (both university and corporate) around the world, design of the machinery, professional meetings, funding, government involvement in science, University of California affairs, and social functions"

So was there a facility in central Florida during the spring of 1962? Dr. Brown mentions it in that daybook. "Radiation Lab "....

Where might this trail go? I don't know.


Elizabeth
Hi Elizabeth, The whole way through there was a parallel thing going on in my head. Dr Brown worked with ions. Ionising radiation is all about the ions ithe ions it creates on interacting with matter. (I was going to save "Its ironic" till later, but a pun delayed is a pun too late).

So when Lawrence built the first cyclotron (the Japanese were the second) and started shooting ions at radioactive elements down the other end, and creating new elements (eg thats what Seaborg did with McMillian etc at the Rad Lab when they made plutonium.) And Groves took over the Rad Lab but the Secret Limited classification on Plutonium was imposed in 1941 before the Manhattan thing had even started. Previously Lawrence was doing basic research and medical treatments. Then throughout the war there was both medicine and the Manhattan people working from the same offices. Hairy stuff. Now if the Germans had mines in Poland etc what America had among other things is the Rad Lab and thats the affection name for the the Lawrence cyclotron actually housed at Crocker Radiation Laboratory UC Berkeley.

Now I would expect the Rad Lab to have a long reach, as from 41 on it had a dual military medical use. These people were advanced. Now its the darndest thing, but they are both working on ion and with ions. And its sort of raised a flag. I dont know where or how it all works in but the Rad Lab had a long reach.

My hero Pecher, and I sent a PM to Geoff about it, he was one inventive genius. He started at the rad lab in 39, and worked on the medical uses of a radioisotope which turned out to be identified in 43 as a major fission fallout product of the bomb. Pecher, being a Belgian, was recalled by his country and died in (suicide) Canada depressed at not being able to perfect what he thought was a cure for cancer. It got FDA approval in 1993. Thats a long time. The Lawrence correspondence on Pecher contains stuff that goes to 47. Now UC Berkeley were advertising his interim paper on the cancer treatment in Science in 43, so that didnt go under any classification until after, I think, but there you are. One genius who in the space of 2 years rocks on a Fellowship, develops and has success with a cancer treatement, synthesises Yttrium, and Sr89, is granted 2 patents, one on secret trans of information being held from 41 to after the war, and who dies of suicide because he was going back to Belgium to fight the Nazis who would have been a big fish to catch. "Tell us about Seaborg...." And being a Belgian, the US couldnt say oh look we need him because the whole thing was too secret, though Pecher wasnt in the Manhattan Project, he probably had lunch with John Lawrence (his supervisor) (in the Manhattan Project and security cleared) and Seaborg etc etc etc. I mean event Tibbets was offered pills to swallow in case of capture for fear of his fate for what he knew. Yet heres this guy who rubbered shoulders with the bomb people and they were going to let him go? did he do a Morgan? I cant find a date of death apart from 1941. But the link between the cyclotron work and the work of Brown, well, I dont know enough to finger it, but both used High voltage to produce ions for different things. the main difference being in energy levels and static vs dynamic. An ion is an ion. And Crocker Rad Lab was security to the highest level AAA priority as far as war supplies went because with it, there wouldnt have been Plutonium and there wouldnt have been the fission product inventory studies.

Now if Dr Brown was doing ion work of national interest which had security classification applied, the boffins at the Rad Lab, well, they might have known, and they might have been in the same compartment.

The Manhattan Project was nt called the Berkeley Project obviously, but the first application of Secret Limited classification for the bomb was applied to a discovery at the RAD LAB before the MP was even formed.

And then you had Teller and and the other events and contacts and Shank,
and the commonality isnt the bomb, its the ions. Ion effects.

These guys are were ion experts. It probably explains the parallelism. And it would be just like Teller to take an observation about ions and turn it into a weapons effect. Someone had to do it I guess. And he was happy to.

Theres things I still need to look into about Pecher, but Ernest Lawrence and maybe John, well they might have contacts with Dr Brown, maybe through others, so are there any names in Lawrence list that might also appear in the list of people in Dr Browns correspondence list?

When Brown was involved in the high altitude nukes (Argus I think Paul wrote) it would have been for an interpretation of the ionic effects and other things. Track back and yea, the first big ion thing was the cyclotron at the Crocker Rad Lab. Even Bradford Shank and his electrostatic filters, its all ions. My thoughts on it. It bamboozled me at first, and then yea, these guys were heavily into ions. And thats the connection and commonality.

It wasnt the bomb itself. But there is a specific set of weapons effects in certain settings which were in need of full description perhaps.

As for the Nazi Bell, as amazing as that might seem, I think the idea of a machine in which you could put a substance in one end and shoot ions at it and create another element altogether, well that aint bad. In fact its genius.
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Re: so where now?

Post by Langley »

Elizabeth Helen Drake wrote:Langley?



OK editing in here .... now this is interesting though I am not sure how I got here ..........

http://content.cdlib.org/view?docId=tf0 ... &brand=oac

Elizabeth
Thats interesting Elizabeth because Ive been there in the same session as the one in which I posted the link to the patent but didnt post the archive link.

Are there any names on the Lawrence correspondence list which result in hits on any correspondence list for Dr Brown. Because those might be interesting boxes to look in.

And its not easy to find that archive site.. Its usually on page 6 or something of the google result. So if it bang popped up.....

The Rad Lab was critical. Very important.

Did Dr Brown head of to the Rad Lab or Berkeley campus from time to time I wonder?
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Post by Langley »

kevin.b wrote:Elizabeth helen Drake,
I don't know how to access those lawrence files, so I began typing things in their search box, eventually with typing SPEED OF LIGHT, I got some hits.
I scrolled down the left hand column to speeches, I think you and langley may be interested in the speech contents?
Langley may be better at using their search box.
There are speechs about the cyclotron, the dates are interesting.
kevin
Hi Kevin, dowsing with key words. What fun. Like being lost in a maze.

I just shifted over to the Defence Technical Information Centre search page
and typed in Townsend Brown. Cut and paste:

1. Force on an Asymmetric Capacitor
...toward the smaller electrode (Biefeld-Brown effect). We have verified this effect...through the history of patents by Thomas Townsend Brown. At present, the physical basis for the Biefeld-Brown effect is not understood. The order of...

Accession Number : ADA416740

Title : Force on an Asymmetric Capacitor

Descriptive Note : Final rept. Aug-Dec 2002

Corporate Author : ARMY RESEARCH LAB ADELPHI MD

Personal Author(s) : Bahder, Thomas B. ; Fazi, Christian

Handle / proxy Url : http://handle.dtic.mil/100.2/ADA416740 Check NTIS Availability...

Report Date : JUN 2003

Pagination or Media Count : 37

Abstract : When a high voltage (approx. 30 kV) is applied to a capacitor whose electrodes have different physical dimensions, the capacitor experiences a net force toward the smaller electrode (Biefeld-Brown effect). We have verified this effect by building four capacitors of different shapes. The effect may have applications to vehicle propulsion and dielectric pumps. We review the history of this effect briefly through the history of patents by Thomas Townsend Brown. At present, the physical basis for the Biefeld-Brown effect is not understood. The order of magnitude of the net force on the asymmetric capacitor is estimated assuming two different mechanisms of charge conduction between its electrodes: ballistic ionic wind and ionic drift. The calculations indicate that ionic wind is at least 3 orders of magnitude too small to explain the magnitude of the observed force on the capacitor. The ionic drift transport assumption leads to the correct order of magnitude for the force, however, it is difficult to see how ionic drift enters into the theory. Finally, we present a detailed thermodynamic treatment of the net force on an asymmetric capacitor. In the future, to understand this effect. a detailed theoretical model must be constructed that takes into account plasma effects: ionization of gas (or air) in the high electric field region. charge transport, and resulting dynamic forces on the electrodes. The next series of experiments should determine whether the effect occurs in vacuum, and a careful study should be carried out to determine the dependence of the observed force on gas pressure, gas species and applied voltage.

Descriptors : *CHARGE TRANSFER, *ELECTRIC PROPULSION, *CAPACITORS, THERMODYNAMICS, DIELECTRICS, ELECTRIC FIELDS, ELECTRICAL CONDUCTIVITY, HEAT TREATMENT, ASYMMETRY, ELECTRODES, BALLISTICS, HIGH VOLTAGE, CYCLIC LOADS, IONIC CURRENT, ELECTRIC CHARGE.

Subject Categories : ELECTRIC AND ION PROPULSION
ELECTRICITY AND MAGNETISM
ELECTRICAL AND ELECTRONIC EQUIPMENT

Distribution Statement : APPROVED FOR PUBLIC RELEASE
http://stinet.dtic.mil/oai/oai?&verb=ge ... =ADA416740

You know what, the unit of measure of force of a particle is the electron volt . using Mev. And its the measure of force acting on a charged particle driving it from one charged plate to another. which huh? but resonant.

Text of a letter written by Townsend Brown included in the Army document:

T. Townsend Brown's letter, as provided by J. Naudin: Dear ..... You have asked several question which I shall try to answer. The experiments in vacuum were conducted at "Societe Nationale de Construction Aeronautique" in Paris in 1955-56, in the Bahnson Laboratories, Winston-Salem, North Carolina in 1957-58 and at the "General Electric Space Center" at King of Prussia, Penna, in 1959. Laboratory notes were made, but these notes were never published and are not availible to me now. The results were varied, depending upon the purpose of the experiment. We were aware that the thrust on the electrode structures were caused largely by ambiant ion momentum transfer when the experiments were conducted in air. Many of the tests, therefore, were directed to the exploration of this component of the total thrust. In the case of the G.E. test, cesium ions were seeded into the environment and the additional thrust due to seeding was observed In the Paris test miniature saucer type airfoils were operated in a vaccum exceeding 10-6mm Hg. Bursts of thrust (towards the positive) were observed every time there was a vaccum spark within the large bell jar. -These vacuum sparks represented momentary ionization, principally of the metal ions in the electrode material. The DC potential used ranged from 70kV to 220kV Condensers of various types, air dielectric and barium titanate were assembled on a rotary support to eliminate the electrostatic effect of chamber walls and observations were made of the rate ofrotation.Intense acceleration was always observed during the vacuum spark (which, incidentally, illuminated the entire interior of the vacuum chamber). Barium Titanate dielectrique always exceeded air dielectric in total thrust. The results which were most significant from the -standpoint of the Biefeld-Brown effect was that thrust continued, even when there was no vacuum spark, causing the rotor to accelerate in the negative to positive direction ......

.......There were pronounced correlations with mean solar time, sideral time and lunar hour angle. This seemed to prove beyond a doubt that the thrust of "gravitors" varied with time in a way that related to solar and lunar tides and sideral correlation of unknown origin. These automatic records, acquired in so many different locations over such a long period of time, appear to indicate that the electrogravitic coupling is subject to an extraterrestrial factor, possibly related to the universal gravitational potential or some other (as yet) unidentified cosmic variable. In response to additional questions, a reply of T. T Brown, dated April, 1973, stated : "The apparatus which lifted itself and floated in the air, which was described by Mr Kitselman, was not a massive dielectric as described in the English patent. Mr Kitselman witnessed an experiment utilising a 15" circular, dome-shaped aluminum electrode, wired and energized as in the attached sketch. When the high voltage was applied, this device, althrough tethered by wires from the high voltage equipment, did rise in the air, lifting not only its own weight but also a small balance weight which was attached to it on the uderside. It is true that this apparatus would exert a force upward of I 10% of its weight. The above experiment was an improvement on the experiment performed in Paris in 1955 and 1956 on disc airfoils. The Paris experiments were the same as those shown to Admiral Radford in Pearl Harbor in 1950.

Later these effects were confirmed in a laboratory at Winston-Salem, N.C., especially constructed for this purpose. Again continuous force was observed when the ionization in the medium surrounding the apparatus was virtually nil. In reviewing my letter of April 5th, I notice, in the drawing which I attached, that I specified the power supply to be 50kV Actually, I should have indicated that it was 50 to 250kVDCfor the reason that the experiments were conducted throughout that entire range. The higher the voltage, the greater was the force observed It appeared that, in these rough tests, that the increase in force was approximately linear with voltage. In vaccum the same test was carried on with a canopy electrode approximately 6" in diameter, with substantial force being displayed at 150 kVDC. I have a short trip of movie film showing this motion within the vacuum chamber as the potential is applied." Kindest personal regards, Sincerely, T Townsend Brown...


I wwonder if by RF pumping of the ionosphere one could energise the ions
such that a vehicle suitably polarised would need no fuel.
Linda Brown
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I remember that letter

Post by Linda Brown »

Langley,

I remember the letter from Dad that you just quoted. I may have typed it. It would have been either me or mother .... no one else. And I find it odd and wonderful that it has found its way again to us so that we can read his own words again, in his own way. Now based with more understanding from Paul perhaps you all can interpret better what he has said here. The fact that the letter found its way to us, the way it has .... feels like the Cheshire Cat again to me, but maybe kevin and others immediately involved are the only ones that will see that. Or perhaps there are more out there who can see this too. Great hopes out there for more.

You are right of course Langley. I see it now with you. It wasn't the atom bomb ..... it was the ionization. Go Forth! This is getting really good.

Interesting how the letter which found its way again to us again mentions Mr. Kitselman and the work done in 1960. Of course you have to all realize that is part of the book and of history so far that has been " left out"

A bubble waiting to surface again at the proper time.

"Doing a Morgan? "

Linda
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Post by twigsnapper »

Hello my dear,

You all are making my day, as usual.

"When Brown was involved in the high altitude nukes (Argus I think Paul wrote) it would have been for an interpretation of the ionic effects and other things. Track back and yea, the first big ion thing was the cyclotron at the Crocker Rad Lab. Even Bradford Shank and his electrostatic filters, its all ions. My thoughts on it. It bamboozled me at first, and then yea, these guys were heavily into ions. And thats the connection and commonality.

It wasnt the bomb itself. But there is a specific set of weapons effects in certain settings which were in need of full description perhaps. "


I hope someone is taking notes. That was a helluva bubble. twigsnapper
kevin.b
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Post by kevin.b »

Feels like a burst open a bottle of chamagne moment to me.
That movie clip with the champagne been held aloft until Dr brown lifts the bottle haunts me.
Brilliant Langley , really brilliant.
Solar and lunar tides, I know I annoyed you all one time when I was dowsing the moon one night, but I was riding a tidal wave, it reacts similer to a tidal bore on the rivers, what a buzz to read that letter.
Kevin
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AM
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Post by AM »

What do you get when you combine Dr. Brown (+ the Norwegian guy) + Philo + Kugelblitze + old Waltman + some other sprinkles mentioned on this board and in the book?

Why did they continue to grill old Waltman like a fat steak, when others were allowed to go home?

You get many things and the ultimate prize.

You are right Langley - ionization, but why is ionization so important? Why?

Wink, wink.

AM

P. S. I am not saying I figured it all out - just a few hunches that seem to fit together.
Last edited by AM on Fri Apr 04, 2008 6:11 pm, edited 4 times in total.
Trickfox
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Post by Trickfox »

Alpha 100 Plasma chromodynamics, and the hollographic universe, chirality and the ultimate inertial reference, The doorframe is becomming much more clear and the crust becomes clear as a bell and soappy smooth.
Got to control those "Raleigh Taylor instabilities" however.
We need help with the bioinfomatic servo loop.

Sorry to leave some behind here but others DO understand and others are volunteering critical info on the ionization issue.

There is violence, death and destruction related to the ionization issues and I suppose we shall allways need to deal with it.

Think..... A-NEUTRONICS and "Catalytic" energy conversion through nanotechnology. We can get away from the harmfull frequencies of radiation which create after effects and mutations beyond the naturally occuring type.

Perhaps...... we must "Learn to listen to Gaia" on Earth, Try also on the moon, and on other planetary or etherial bodies to see what is a possible natural mutation in bioinfomatics.

Just more RANDOM IDEAS for my NOTEBOOK. (darn it, I posted in the wrong thread....sorry but it stays anyway)

Trickfox
Image

Hiccup: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MdVto_E0qYA
Last edited by Trickfox on Sun Mar 09, 2008 5:10 pm, edited 3 times in total.
Radomir
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door

Post by Radomir »

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Green_Door
The hit version of the song in the United States was recorded by Jim Lowe (backed by the orchestra of songwriter Davie, with Davie also playing piano), and it reached #1 on the Billboard charts in 1956.

[snip]

Possible literary origins

The Green Door is also a short story by O. Henry from his 1906 book The Four Million[5], in which a man named Rudolf Steiner, though apparently not the Austrian esotericist, is handed an advertisement for an establishment named The Green Door. He enters a green door where he meets a starving young woman, buys her dinner, and they talk (nothing explicit happens); finally Steiner tells her that he will visit her again the next day and there is romance in the offing. Eventually it turns out that the advertisement was for an entirely different "Green Door", a theatre. O. Henry uses the eponymous green door as a symbol for everyday adventures which he encourages us to seek out.

It is also possible that the song is a reference to a H. G. Wells short story, The Door in the Wall[6].
Lyrics for: The Green Door

{music includes constant "tick-tock" clock sound}

(Midnight, one more night without sleepin')
(Watchin' till the mornin' comes creepin')
(Green door, what's that secret you're keepin?)

There's an old piano
And they play it hot behind the green door
Don't know what they're doin'
But they laugh a lot behind the green door
Wish they'd let me in
So I could find out what's behind the green door

(Knocked once, tried to tell them I'd been there)
(Door slammed, hospitality's thin there)
(Wonder just what's goin' on in there)

Saw an eyeball peepin'
Through a smoky cloud behind the green door
When I said "Joe sent me"
Someone laughed out loud behind the green door
All I want to do is join the happy crowd behind the green door

instrumental interlude

(Midnight, one more night without sleepin')
(Watchin' till the mornin' comes creepin')
(Green door, what's that secret you're keepin?)

(Green door, what's that secret you're keepin?)

Green door!!
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operative words

Post by twigsnapper »

"Happy crowd "....... and " behind the green door" which I take to be a well closed one.

Nothing much of any positive consequence happens in a somber and nervous environment, its been my experience. I have had my share of important meetings " behind closed doors" but nothing is ever as sucessful as when there is a relaxed situation happening between the participants. You invite much more behind that green door when nothing is expected.

Thankyou Radomir for reminding me of that tune. Actually one of my favorites. Of course it came out when I thought I was really the cats whiskers. Now maybe just reduced to the smile!

twigsnapper
AM
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Post by AM »

Mr. Langley,

Everything is there, everything. Thank you so much for the post! It is truly multi-layered. A great service you did.

We must only untangle the Christmas-light decoration.

I have a hunch that we will one day gaze upon the glorious vista that Dr. Brown perceived.

This man was so brilliant that it can make you cry. So brilliant!

Still, let us excercise caution when untangling - you never know when you can get electrocuted by a nasty incident.
"...what doth the Lord require
of thee, but to do justly, and to
love mercy, and to walk humbly
with thy God?"

Micah 6:8
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Post by kevin.b »

We experienced an Earth quake here last week as I reported upon here.
Please make note of Dr Browns words in that letter relative to mean solar time , sideral time and lunar angle.
And that His "gravitors" thrust was affected relative to an UNKNOWN source relative to the above timings.
Then consider that earth quakes are an occurance due to similer thrusts of an unknown source.
In this letter Dr Brown says "unknown" but perhaps He knew?
kevin
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Post by Langley »

AM wrote:What do you get when you combine Dr. Brown (+ the Norwegian guy) + Philo + Kugelblitze + old Waltman + some other sprinkles mentioned on this board and in the book?

Why did they continue to grill old Waltman like a fat steak, when others were allowed to go home?

You get many things and the ultimate prize.

You are right Langley - ionization, but why is ionization so important? Why?
Wink, wink.

AM

P. S. I am not saying I figured it all out - just a few hunches that seem to fit together.
sublime AM.

Im guessing its to do with the interaction of the zpf. ions are valent, they feel incomplete. so wot happens with ions and neutrion interactions? I dunno Im parroting the variables here.
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