Epilogue: The Sound of Time

[Gewis]

I saw what you were saying just fine.

I just thought you were wrong.

[Mikado14]

Someone.....anyone....prove to me that Morgan went to the year 1936.

Not Subjectively, not with reliance on a persons veracity.

Objectively with proof.

That is all that I am asking otherwise, this is all Subjective assumptions based upon a personal dogma or belief system or maybe just a "gut" feeling but in any event, it is not OBJECTIVE and that is what has been requested in the past few posts. This is not a "do as I say and not as I do", it is a request made and if adhered to it is for all.

Give me the proof.

Mikado

[Gewis]

There is none. So don't believe it.

I'm just suggesting that you ought not to disbelieve it either, until you have proof that it wasn't Morgan. Unless there is data either way, we can allow the possibility without coming to a conclusion that that possibility is the truth.

Is it likely that it was Morgan? The credibility of a covert organization and its members is always suspect. Twigsnapper has talked plenty about the value of lies and disinformation. That casts doubt on everything he tells us. My inclination is that time travel of that sort isn't possible.

I'm still going to hold out judgment until I've proven that it either is or isn't possible (which is a far more important question than whether Morgan rescued Brown). It's the intelligence analyst in me: confirm or deny.

-Gewis

[Linda Brown]

Looking for “proof”.

Or any “ shred of evidence?

Here’s a question for you. Would you recognize that shred it if it were available to you? How much “proof” has actually been lying around in plain sight, unrecognized?

But maybe this is worth considering ....... maybe once that “proof” is handed to you, and you identify it to your own satisfaction...... What then? Would you launch yourself on a campaign to spread that “ proof” to others? Would you think that once you knew that it would be a simple matter then to “ spread the word” to others?

Have you considered how difficult that actually might be, given the resistance of the human mind to things that it has not been programed for yet? Do you have the patience to wait for the dawn of recognition, because without it .... you will never be believed, no matter how strong the evidence.

And there is the fear too which you would have to combat. If you could suddenly and without question “prove” that these fanciful stories are in fact true .... then you have to be prepared to help people deal with the fright that overwhelms them because suddenly their world is not the same that it was before and in a blink of an eye everything has changed and moved under their feet ..... and would you be in a position to tell them that everything would be alright?

Linda

[Mikado14]

There is none. So don't believe it.

And here we have another conclusion. I said I would be agnostic. If I were to believe, then proof would have to be presented to show I were wrong. OR, if I don't believe, proof would then have to show me that I was wrong again. I neither believe nor disbelieve. If posters are going to believe without proof then they are being SUBJECTIVE and we have been asked to be OBJECTIVE. I am being agnostic. I will believe either/or with proof therefore any speculation presented by anyone here is completely SUBJECTIVE whether that be in regard to Morgan in 1936, the communications device of Dr. Brown or reality of Ley lines with a dowsing rod. All are SUBJECTIVE conclusions without any evidence other than a persons word. Talk is cheap - action is gold. Show me the woman in Hawaii that can mold a stone [(Mr. Barrett) that would be proof], then I will have a coronary and turn into a vegan and I will lead a life of celebacy.

I'm just suggesting that you ought not to disbelieve it either, until you have proof that it wasn't Morgan. Unless there is data either way, we can allow the possibility without coming to a conclusion that that possibility is the truth.

To reiterate, a suggestion is not OBJECTIVE reality it is again SUBJECTIVE. However, data either way is what I am asking but the antithesis would also be to allow the possibility without coming to a conclusion that that possibility is false. Would you believe a person that saw a UFO/USO? Would not the belief, either one way or the other be a SUBJECTIVE conclusion?

Is it likely that it was Morgan? The credibility of a covert organization and its members is always suspect. Twigsnapper has talked plenty about the value of lies and disinformation. That casts doubt on everything he tells us.

Absolutely! How do we know if he is/isn't just having a lark? Or how do we know that he isn't a fey?

My inclination is that time travel of that sort isn't possible.

An inclination is a SUBJECTIVE conclusion.

I'm still going to hold out judgment until I've proven that it either is or isn't possible (which is a far more important question than whether Morgan rescued Brown). It's the intelligence analyst in me: confirm or deny.

Gewis, now that is much more OBJECTIVE!!!

Mikado

[Mikado14]

Looking for “proof”.

Or any “ shred of evidence?

Here’s a question for you. Would you recognize that shred it if it were available to you? How much “proof” has actually been lying around in plain sight, unrecognized?

But maybe this is worth considering ....... maybe once that “proof” is handed to you, and you identify it to your own satisfaction...... What then? Would you launch yourself on a campaign to spread that “ proof” to others? Would you think that once you knew that it would be a simple matter then to “ spread the word” to others?

Have you considered how difficult that actually might be, given the resistance of the human mind to things that it has not been programed for yet? Do you have the patience to wait for the dawn of recognition, because without it .... you will never be believed, no matter how strong the evidence.

And there is the fear too which you would have to combat. If you could suddenly and without question “prove” that these fanciful stories are in fact true .... then you have to be prepared to help people deal with the fright that overwhelms them because suddenly their world is not the same that it was before and in a blink of an eye everything has changed and moved under their feet ..... and would you be in a position to tell them that everything would be alright?

Linda

Greetings Ms. Brown,

I do hope that you are addressing my posts of proof and that my assumption is not wrong.

1. Would you recognize that shred it if it were available to you? Yes

2. How much “proof” has actually been lying around in plain sight, unrecognized? To answer this question I would have to change from being the agnostic/cynic however, you deserve an honest answer - quite a bit

3. Would you launch yourself on a campaign to spread that “ proof” to others? Would you think that once you knew that it would be a simple matter then to “ spread the word” to others? No and No

4. Have you considered how difficult that actually might be, given the resistance of the human mind to things that it has not been programed for yet? Yes, and in ways you may not know but I would bet you do, at least from what Paul has written.

5. And there is the fear too which you would have to combat. If you could suddenly and without question “prove” that these fanciful stories are in fact true .... then you have to be prepared to help people deal with the fright that overwhelms them because suddenly their world is not the same that it was before and in a blink of an eye everything has changed and moved under their feet ..... and would you be in a position to tell them that everything would be alright? Fear, it can be an ally or a foe, depends upon your point of view. Let's assume, as you say, that I could prove the "fanciful" stories. I would not "prove" the stories or tell the masses that everything would be alright until smarter individuals than I could determine a way to break that fillie in the most gentlest way possible. I am not that smart or wise.

I have given you honest answers as best is possible but I will admit that they are SUBJECTIVE answers which in an OBJECTIVE REALITY are from Mikado's reality.

Mikado

[Linda Brown]

Mikado,
Your words I am reminding you

"Talk is cheap - action is gold. Show me the woman in Hawaii that can mold a stone [(Mr. Barrett) that would be proof], then I will have a coronary and turn into a vegan and I will lead a life of celebacy."

Promises, promises Mr. Mikado. <g>

I suggest ordering the steak. The brain needs alot of protein ... as far as the other situations? I'd arrange for a pass.

Linda

[Gewis]

You still haven't seen what I am saying.

You say "now you're being objective" as if what I'm doing "now" is different from what I was doing "before." Perhaps you only finally saw what I was saying? What I was saying didn't change <edit: and an inclination is not a conclusion>.

[kevin.b]

Mikado 14,
I am confronted with skepits constantly, the world is full of prove it's.
Skeptic ,skeptic told a tale,
but was it just a tale, the skeptic told.

I will try to find the full length of that little ditty I wrote.
I have found that the true skeptics are amongst those I most admire.
A skeptic I know who runs a heritage site here in the UK was a surveyor by proffesion, he wants to TEST me in my statement that I can survey a dead straight line over hills through forrests across lakes, through cities, and not be a fraction of an inch out.
To me , that is a given, so easy as to be boring.
He wants to blindfold me, so that I have no point of reference etc.
I have tried to explain to him that I need to view my rods at least, he says this proves I can't do it.
I therefore accepted the challenge, saying , anywhere, anytime, nobody has taken me up on the challenge, I honestly feel they are afraid of facing the consequences.
The consequences are that there is something else outside of what we feel we are masters of, other realms and realities .
I have accepted that there are, and am learning to slowly overcome any fear I have as I encounter them, the fear disables the ability to confront that which is totally outside our understanding.
The main realisation I have accepted is that I am not alone in my body, occupied is the best word I can use.
The basic operating animal is me, the normally seen and accepted, but there is something else inside, and it appears to be able to exit myself, if the conditions are right.
As I can accept this and not be afraid at all, the next step is taking the operating self along as well.

The right condition for that to occur, I believe happens naturally, and will explain many dissappearances, but i also consider that the right CONDITION can be created, and because I further believe that we are operating in a matrix, that if the condition exists, and the operator is strong minded enough, he/she will be able to think their way about the matrix.
That matrix will be universal , to this and all parallel universes, in my hobbit opinion.
kevin

[AM]

I'm still fresh and new here, but I would like to again chime in with a word or two.

I do understand the position of people who are keen on seeing some hard proof and it is always good that there are some cynical agnostics and sceptics around. Do not ever forget what the great general George S. Patton said: "If everybody is thinking alike, then somebody isn't thinking." You know what is my favourite past-time on Fridays? To go to James Randi's website and read his weekly report. But on the other hand I like to put on my tin-foil hat several times a day and go for a ride into the twilight zone. And, yet I don't see any contradiction in it!

Both positions, that of an extreme believer as well as that of a complete agnostic have their respective weaknesses. Too much of the "either/or" thing. It's good to stay somewhere in the middle just closely observing, like a raccoon patiently anticipating a person fogetting to put the lid on the garbage can and then when the lights go out swiftly helping himself with the tasty contents.

Ms. Brown said something that hits the nail on the head i. e.:

"Here’s a question for you. Would you recognize that shred it if it were available to you? How much “proof” has actually been lying around in plain sight, unrecognized?"

Indeed! Would we recognize it? Before 1492 there were no horses in the New World. How must have the Incas and the Aztecs felt, when Francisco Pizzaro and Hernan Cortes came riding on those strange animals with long heads and tails? What words did they use for them? How did they perceive them?

Then there are the following two additional problems:

a.) In my opinion Dr. Brown's biography was primarily (and the emphasis is on primarily) not written with the intent to prove something. I may be wrong, but in my opinion it was written to set the record straight regarding Dr. Brown's life and backing it up with good, solid research work. The other aspects, like time travel, exotic technologies, etc., simply manifested along the way. I do not think that Mr. Schatzkin imagined the book will turn out as it did, when he started writting it.

b.) I doubt it is so simple as to expect evidences to be presented in one go and on an internet forum. Something tells me we are in the midst of process and that we will see more. Further let us not forget that Ms. Linda Brown and ESPECIALLY Mr. Twigsnapper and others involved in the story enjoy by the virtue of their personal history and connections a different perspective than we do. And what may seem from our viewpoint simple and harmless, may not be as such seen from their perspective.

I think we will see the evidence, but we have to be patient and open. And do not forget - the Truth has this nasty habit of sooner or later coming out. Especially with a little help from her friends.

AM aka Andrew

P. S. This project is unique. Ms. Linda Brown and Mr. Twigsnapper are not just somebody, but people who were closely involved in Dr. Brown's life. The project is unique, because these people are prepared to share with us and the public details of Dr. Brown's enigmatic life. Do not forget that until Mr. Schatzkin came along, the Brown-family was preferring quietude and to stay out of the limelights.

[Langley]

And an additional thought. My... all those bird names. You would need an Aviary to keep track of them all.

Man, you crack me up. What do you suppose the odds are of lay people digging around the edges finding the path between Dr. Brown and these "birds"? Langley?

Er, my big thought for the month came yesterday when dwelling on time travel. I found myself doing a time shift on our Teac PVR (hard drive video recorder vcr replacement thingy) because my wife (She who thinks she's being obeyed (for 5 nanoseconds and then its curtains for me) wanted to watch something on TV while Top Gear was on (Double Decker bus jumping a row of motorcycles (er I think English had it arse about. But there are few experts around now.)

And it hit me. As Top Gear was taping (digiting?) from one channel and we were also digiting what we were watching on another channel in time shift mode, we could also pause what we were watching in Time Shift mode. And so after taking it off pause, we could also fast forward up to the point where the live transmission was actually up to. If I was rich enough Id have a go at bribing the TV station techies into fast forwarding the feed just to make it more complicated.

and so I thought ( on the verge of complete confusion and an incipient migraine) "What if what we think is reality is merely a transmission? And what if there was more than one channel ? What if the universe is like a Teac (?)* PVR hard drive recorder thingy?

I didnt know the answer so as soon as I could I watched the Bus jump 3 out of 14 bikes as it proved to the viewers that it definately didnt have a Nazi Bell under the hood, instead.

I dunno Gewis. Anything is possible but it helps if one has an experience whereby someone lifts the lid for a moment in ones view. A Peak Experience, preferably at a young age, would be a prime requirement. People spend their lives somethings trying to repeat the experience.

(Probably explains why some people get married).

* Oh OK, the Cosmos isnt cheap. A Harmon Kardon then.

Im beginning to talk like Jeremy Clarkson. (Top Gear host)

[Linda Brown]

Kevin, such important words... a shaft of insight

"The main realisation I have accepted is that I am not alone in my body, occupied is the best word I can use.
The basic operating animal is me, the normally seen and accepted, but there is something else inside, and it appears to be able to exit myself, if the conditions are right.
As I can accept this and not be afraid at all, the next step is taking the operating self along as well"

And thankyou Navigator. for seeing the " next step" as well.

And thankyou Langley for this. Good advice from the past.

"We are in a bad spot, morally, ethically and nationally. …..
Restrain yourself my boy. None of it is worth risking your health for. In the end, if we peg away, truth will out. Let’s not jump to the lions but gird up our loins! “ – Mark Oliphant*, writing to Hedley Marston, 12.9.56."

And Paul.

Only two places would draw my interest if I were there in Key West. ( Besides the conch trains and the sun and sand and palm trees and and the sailing ships pulling at their moorings ... and..and.... and ...) would be Captain Tonys ( haunted you know ... definitely haunted) and an old Cemetery where a yorkshire terrier is buried " Here lies the meanest yorkie in the world, and my best friend. Or something like that. I have heard about it ... haven't paid my respects yet! Linda

[Mikado14]

You still haven't seen what I am saying.

You say "now you're being objective" as if what I'm doing "now" is different from what I was doing "before." Perhaps you only finally saw what I was saying? What I was saying didn't change <edit: and an inclination is not a conclusion>.

I'm still going to hold out judgment until I've proven that it either is or isn't possible (which is a far more important question than whether Morgan rescued Brown). It's the intelligence analyst in me: confirm or deny.

I have carefully read everything, or straight forward, I have read your words. Read your last quote, that is an objective sentence that you said, no conclusions, no assumptions, no feelings etc, only the neutral stance of no conclusions until further facts are had. I believe (subjectively ) that that statement can be considered an objective statement.

Perhaps you only finally saw what I was saying?

I see you dancing to preserve your reality. I see your statements and arguements filled with what YOU believe. But then there are those that want only OBJECTIVE posts and analysis based on results and facts. Perhaps you don't see the oxymoron.

My inclination is that time travel of that sort isn't possible.

An inclination is a SUBJECTIVE conclusion.

<edit: and an inclination is not a conclusion>

If you insist upon quoting me to argue with me, at least be complete and not a revisionist. An inclination is a feeling, a thought, an idea which germinates in a person's mind, soul, whatever. Whether it is correct or incorrect but it is a SUBJECTIVE conclusion derived from what I have said in the previous sentence until the person's mind, soul, whatever, changes that conclusion based upon either/or a new thought based upon further SUBJECTIVE insight or acted upon by an outside influence i.e. counterproof.

[Mikado14]

Mikado 14,
To me , that is a given, so easy as to be boring.
He wants to blindfold me, so that I have no point of reference etc.
I have tried to explain to him that I need to view my rods at least, he says this proves I can't do it.

Two things kevin,

1. Go to the local airport and borrow a hood and wear it with a neck brace, that will keep your head relatively fixed and prevent a view forward.

2. Tell him to put some money down. Something about talk and gold.

Mikado

[Linda Brown]

Mikado,

All that will do ... once demonstrated, is turn our kevin here into the local dog and pony show. Toward what end? Proving something to someone who is not prepared in any way to accept that information? words, words, words and more words. Reminds me of the lines from a Broadway show!

kevin/ I would take the advice from another era and another gentleman. Leave the lions where they are ..... put your armor on ..... and then patiently wait for the proper time. Thats the hard part. Linda