Looking for an article detailing 'black projects' (B-2 etc)

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Gravity well
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Looking for an article detailing 'black projects' (B-2 etc)

Post by Gravity well »

Hi all,

Longtime lurker but I finally registered. I was wondering if anyone has this old article from Aviation week and is willing to share it with me. I'm interested in what it contains. I saw the article referenced in Nick Cook & Paul LaViolette's works.

Scott, William, 'Black World Engineers, Scientists Encourage Using Highly Classified Technology for Civil Application," Aviation Week & Space Technology, 9 March 1992, page 67.

It's an article that revealed that B-2 charges its leading edges. I'm wondering what else it revealed!

Any help is much appreciated!

Thanks in advance.
Radomir
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Re: Looking for an article detailing 'black projects' (B-2 etc)

Post by Radomir »

I assume you could contact the research/reference librarian at any major university library with that magazine in its collections, and for a small fee they would photocopy and fax to you the article. Unless things have changed radically from when I was in grad school, that ought to work. Or if you are near such a library or libraries, call around and ask what they have on microfilm for that magazine and year, and then you can go do the research yourself. Which is even more fun because you always wind up finding things you didn't know you were looking for when you use a real library...

R.
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Re: Looking for an article detailing 'black projects' (B-2 etc)

Post by Paul S. »

I'm pretty sure I found and copied the text of that article into my notes program. I'll have to reboot the Mac in the morning and start Windows to bring it up. I'll let you know what turns up.

--PS
Paul Schatzkin
aka "The Perfesser"
"At some point we have to deal with the facts, not what we want to believe is true." -- Jack Bauer
Gravity well
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Re: Looking for an article detailing 'black projects' (B-2 etc)

Post by Gravity well »

Thanks Paul :)
Paul S.
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Not The Droid...

Post by Paul S. »

...you are looking for, huh?

I knew I had stored an article from Aviation Week about the electrostatic leading edge/wing, but now that I've opened the file it seems this is not the article you're asking about. You are asking about an article from 1992 -- this one is from 1968. It may well be the confirmation of what was demonstrated for RAND just before the GTI project shut down a few months earlier.

I don't know if I've seen that 1992 article. I know it has been referenced in numerous places, but now I don't recall whether or not I've seen it. Let me know if you find it.

--PS

- - - -

http://www.setv.org/online_mss/lafl-osr.html

Northrop Studying Sonic Boom Remedy

Aviation Week & Space Technology
January 22, 1968

ppg 21

Hawthorne, Calif. --Use of electrical forces to condition the air flowing around an aircraft at supersonic speeds may lower drag, reduce heating and soften sonic boom, Northrop Corp., said here last week.

Although practical application of the technique, assuming research validates it, is quite far in the future, Northrop said its findings in company studies show enough promise to justify government funding of more intensive research, NASA is reportedly interested in the method.

Air molecules ahead of the aircraft would be ionized, probably negatively, through a corona. The nose of the aircraft would be charged to the same negative potential, forming an electrostatic force field which would tend to repel or alter the course of the molecules as the aircraft approached.

Preliminary work has been largely analogous, using liquids rather than air. However, limited wind tunnel work has established that the corona dishcarge readily propogates forward in a Mach 3 airstream with no measurable attenuation due to the air flow.

The work has been conducted by M.S. Cahn and G. M. Andrew of the Norair Div. Cahn and Andrew were to report their results Jan. 22 to the sixth Aerospace Sciences Meeting of the American Institute of Aeronautics and Astronautics in New York.

Company officials are guardedly optimistic about the usefulness of the technique because of the preliminary stage of the research.

Next stage in the research requires expenditure of roughly $100,000 to modify a wind tunnel with electrical insulation. This would create isolated conditions similar to those of an aircraft in flight. Work in Northroup's 5 inch tunnel failed to produce meaningful results when the electrical discharge applied to the test body grounded against the walls of the tunnel.

Northrop officials concede that communications problems would arise in a charged aircraft, but pointed out that a solution might be found in the method used to maintain communication through the plasma sheath of a spacecraft during re-entry.

In a possible application for the technique, the nose of the aircraft would have to be insulated from the rest of the vehicle to preclude charging the entire airframe, Cahn believes. The excess electricity could be discharged through a trailing boom into the slip-stream, which would act as a ground.

- - - -
Paul Schatzkin
aka "The Perfesser"
"At some point we have to deal with the facts, not what we want to believe is true." -- Jack Bauer
Gravity well
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Re: Looking for an article detailing 'black projects' (B-2 etc)

Post by Gravity well »

Thanks Paul! I've made a call to a library that has AW and have asked for a copy. I'll have to wait for them to mail it to me. I'll try to post it here when I get it.
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from the horse's mouth perhaps

Post by Trickfox »

oops...
Am I in the wrong thread?
Darn it.... I thought someone was looking for me. :roll:

What exactly do you hope to find in that article Gravity well?

Trickfox
The psychopropulsier (as pointed out in the book The Good-bye man by Linda Brown and Jan Lofton) is a Quantum entanglement project under development using Quantum Junctions. Join us at http://www.Peeteelab.com
Gravity well
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Re: from the horse's mouth perhaps

Post by Gravity well »

Trickfox wrote:oops...
Am I in the wrong thread?
Darn it.... I thought someone was looking for me. :roll:

What exactly do you hope to find in that article Gravity well?

Trickfox
Well, I have no idea! That's why I'm looking for it :).

The article in question was the first and only time that people who worked on black projects talked openly to the press. After that article was published, the people who talked were reprimanded and who knows what has happened to them since then. The article in question names few technologies that these scientists/engineers say would help the human race. They mentioned electrogravitics, that much has been reported by everyone quoting this article, but no one mentions what else they revealed.
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Re: Looking for an article detailing 'black projects' (B-2 etc)

Post by Paul S. »

Yes, and the fact that this article is so widely quoted but does NOT seem to have found a place on the Internets is also rather fascinating?

I'll be watching this thread with considerable interest (particularly now that Trickfox has also taken an interest...)

--PS
Paul Schatzkin
aka "The Perfesser"
"At some point we have to deal with the facts, not what we want to believe is true." -- Jack Bauer
Elizabeth Helen Drake
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Re: Looking for an article detailing 'black projects' (B-2 etc)

Post by Elizabeth Helen Drake »

Paul,

While you are looking through your notes in this direction, isn't this the same semi disastrous problem reported both in France and at Bahnsons ...1956, 1958?

"Next stage in the research requires expenditure of roughly $100,000 to modify a wind tunnel with electrical insulation. This would create isolated conditions similar to those of an aircraft in flight. Work in Northroup's 5 inch tunnel failed to produce meaningful results when the electrical discharge applied to the test body grounded against the walls of the tunnel.

Of course the other " chamber" was not a "wind tunnel" ....oh, but wait .... this thing is not supposed to operate in a vaccuum, right? And I am being snide here, you should note, when I call attention to the phrase "meaningful results" which of course is another phrase we have seen before.

Oh, and while you are all looking for that "weeded" article ( which just might be the ticket for everything here my interest would also be in the Northrop structure at the time and the names that show up. Dig hard enough, and you will find Floyd Odlum. Anybody want to bet me? Elizabeth
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Re: Looking for an article detailing 'black projects' (B-2 etc)

Post by Elizabeth Helen Drake »

And while we are on this topic. As Morgan would say... chew on this.... drawn from http://www.netwrx1.com/skunk-works/v05.n232

"Yes, for the first time anywhere, here's a bib.:

"Northrop Studying Sonic Boom Remedy"; AW&ST, 1/22/68, pg 21.
"Experiments Indicate Electric Charge Could Quiet Sonic Boom";
Product Engineering magazine 3/11/68, pgs 35-36.
"Electroaerodynamics in Supersonic Flow"; Cahn, Andrew; AIAA 68-24
"Recent Experiments In Supersonic Regime With Electrostatic Charges";
Cahn, Andrew, Anderson; AIAA 70-759

The Product Engineering and AW&ST magazine stories prove that the
research was publicized at the time.

The 1968 AIAA paper above, introduced the ideas and talked about work
in fluid tunnels with fluids of different dielectric strengths. The
results were quite promising.

There is a nice picture of what the electric field does to the bow shock
off the model, in the Product Engineering piece.

When they went to a supersonic wind tunnel, they found that arcing occurred
between the model and the walls of the tunnel, due to the high voltages they
were applying to the model. So they had to electrically isolate the walls of
the tunnel from the model. That is where the 1968 paper ends.

The 1970 AIAA paper, reports the results of the supersonic wind tunnel tests
once they were able to electrically isolate the model from the tunnel wall.

I will quote from the 1970 AIAA paper:

"Tests were conducted in Mach 1.5 and Mach 3.0 wind tunnels with 1.5 by 3 inch
test sections. Two-dimensional full span models were used. Up to 100,000 volts
at 10 milliamperes were applied to the model to produce the required gaseous
discharge in the airstream. A Schlieren system provided still and motion
picture data of the bow shock wave ahead of the models. Differential pressure
measurements were taken across the shock waves.

At Mach 1.4, the shock wave moved upstream when 40 kilovolts and 70 watts are
applied to the model. Other test configurations caused the shock wave to
move both upstream and downstream.

In one experiment, at Mach 1.4, the shock wave COMPLETELY DISAPPEARED FROM
VIEW (emphasis added by me)".

So there you have it, complete disappearance of a shock in a supersonic flow!

Quite interesting!"

And I agree. Sticking to the non mystical side of this, All that is left for us to do here is alot of hard work to draw the lines which connect Dr. Brown, Floyd Odlum, these "hand off tests" after the demonstration at Rand in November of 1967....and Northrops skunkworks projects.

My impression is that Internet missing article (which was probably initially very painfully leaked by somebody) is going to finally be useful now, if we all recognize the importance of it.

What else might be in that article? Why is it important? I agree, I don't know why it will be important, I just know that it is .............

Paul wants and needs solid things to point to and I agree, we need to follow this to some sort of conclusion. But other than all of that hard work just don't ask us how to prove how the information just "happens" to arrive in our direction to begin with.... because of course that might just be "mystical BS" <g> Elizabeth
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Re: Looking for an article detailing 'black projects' (B-2 etc)

Post by Elizabeth Helen Drake »

And I just happened to note this from the same source

"Mary Shafer DoD #0362 KotFR [email protected]
URL http://www.dfrc.nasa.gov/People/Shafer/mary.html
Some days it don't come easy/And some days it don't come hard
Some days it don't come at all/And these are the days that never end...."

And I wondered if you are reading this Mary and you could add to this discussion. Elizabeth
Elizabeth Helen Drake
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Re: Looking for an article detailing 'black projects' (B-2 etc)

Post by Elizabeth Helen Drake »

Like looking for the actual owner of a plane with a certain tail number. Funny how things fall away. But Mary .... we need some solid stuff here. Elizabeth
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Re: Looking for an article detailing 'black projects' (B-2 etc)

Post by Mikado14 »

Elizabeth Helen Drake wrote:And I just happened to note this from the same source

"Mary Shafer DoD #0362 KotFR [email protected]
URL http://www.dfrc.nasa.gov/People/Shafer/mary.html
Some days it don't come easy/And some days it don't come hard
Some days it don't come at all/And these are the days that never end...."

And I wondered if you are reading this Mary and you could add to this discussion. Elizabeth
Elizabeth...the link....she no workey!

Mikado
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy
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Re: Looking for an article detailing 'black projects' (B-2 etc)

Post by Paul S. »

Elizabeth Helen Drake wrote: While you are looking through your notes in this direction, isn't this the same semi disastrous problem reported both in France and at Bahnsons ...1956, 1958?

"Next stage in the research requires expenditure of roughly $100,000 to modify a wind tunnel with electrical insulation. This would create isolated conditions similar to those of an aircraft in flight. Work in Northroup's 5 inch tunnel failed to produce meaningful results when the electrical discharge applied to the test body grounded against the walls of the tunnel.
Yeah, that's exactly what was reported from the Bahnson lab experiments. Similar to the results from at least the first experiments in France a couple years earlier.

And you are right, the prhase "meaningful results" is a loaded expression. At this point I think a valid interpretation is "not the results we anticipated," which also (sadly) implies a failure to seriously consider the results they did get.

--PS
Paul Schatzkin
aka "The Perfesser"
"At some point we have to deal with the facts, not what we want to believe is true." -- Jack Bauer
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