Who Are Those Guys??

A place to engage extended discussions of things that come up on the ttbrown.com website. Anything goes here, as long as it's somehow pertinent to the subject(s) at hand.
Paul S.
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Who Are Those Guys??

Post by Paul S. »

(as Butch kept saying to Sundance...)

The next chapter in this "sprawling epic" will deal with the years when Townsend Brown lived in Hawaii, 1947-1950. This photo

Image

...was taken sometime during that period. At least, it appears to have been taken with the same camera as some other pictures that clearly show Dr. Brown in the Islands (the flower lei he is wearing in the other photos is pretty good clue).

We have no idea the identity of the two gentlemen to Dr. Brown's left, nor the location, though the fountain in the background may be a clue. Twigsnapper says we will be "very pleased" if we can come up with the location, and Linda Brown swears she's seen other pictures of the guy in the middle.

So I'm just putting this out there for all you cyber-sleuths... maybe somebody recognizes one of these gentleman, or the location?

Here's a closer look:

Image

Anybody wanna hazard a guess?

Thanks,

--PS
Paul Schatzkin
aka "The Perfesser"
"At some point we have to deal with the facts, not what we want to believe is true." -- Jack Bauer
Victoria Steele
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hazardous quesses

Post by Victoria Steele »

Oh, hazardous guesses are what I am good at.

My flash thought, even though I may be REALLY wrong?

Washington DC. rather than somewhere in California or Hawaii. Taking my clue from Twigsnapper here. There are no Palm trees in the background and I don't know, maybe I have seen this scene somewhere in the past but the only thought that comes up fast is .... Washington.

Dr. Brown is not in his happy mode, you can tell, though he is the better dressed of the three. His shoes are polished, a good suit of a medium weight ... the trees are in full bloom so it is into summer and I'll bet muggy and humid ... perhaps Dr. Brown has been travelling and has been elsewhere too. He is clearly not the most comfortable.

Why did someone take this picture? and who took it? Not a great friend of Dr. Browns . Not Beau Kitselman or you would have gotten a better facial expression. Dr. Brown just wants this to be over.

Strictly guessing here. I would say the fellow in the middle is about as tickled as he can be that Dr. Brown is there! I would guess from his unorthadox dress that he is a scientist. Not too accustomed to doing things anyway but his ( the type that would wear a dark suit and sneakers! (<g> Trickfox!, luv ya!)you can tell that by the shoes! Striped tie ... suspenders .... He is a person of his own.

The third man is a bit more conservative and its a poor picture of probably a pretty well put together outfit. Wingtips ....an individual...... but a conservative tie. And the mandetory hankerchief folded just right. I would guess, because he is wearing a suit, perhaps the fellow that picked Dr. Brown up from the airport? I want to say " agent" as in FBI but I think that they would have frowned on his choice of shoes. Young and fit, not especially tanned.

Where the heck is that scene? I can't stop thinking that its Washington but I could be so off!

We must be able to identify these men and this place or it wouldn't have come up like this so somebody else out there recognize these guys like Paul said. Who are these guys ?and ..... overlooking my wild guesses .... where do you all think this is?

Could it be Cal Tech? Just trying to be fair here. Or maybe Boston somewhere. I just keep coming up with Washington. Somebody prove me right or wrong! Victoria
kevin.b
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Post by kevin.b »

The type of fountains in the background are commonly called Rainbow fountains, due to the rainbows achieved when the sun shines through them.
You dont think they were looking for a pot of gold?
To make a golden argonaut?
Kevin
fibonacci is king
Victoria Steele
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rainbow fountains?

Post by Victoria Steele »

Is that what they call them in England then? Would they call them that in the United States, I wonder? Would there be any kind of a list of " rainbow" fountains" in various places? ...... thanks for that kevin.

Of course around this crew the use of the word " Rainbow" usually instigates alot of wayward thoughts! and the pot of gold at the end of it is just one!

Another little cosmic hint! Remember everybody, the year must be sometime after 1947 to .... when Paul? 1950? thanks
Victoria
Elizabeth Helen Drake
Sr. Research Asst.
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tailoring

Post by Elizabeth Helen Drake »

Another comment to match up with what Victoria has said. Of the three of course Dr. Brown is the most conservatively dressed and nicely, perhaps, but still his suit looks a tad snug on him. Had he gained some weight since he last wore it maybe? So that would mean maybe that the years in Hawaii were helpful in putting his injuries behind him. Those shoes are beautifully shined.

The refelecting pool for the Washington monument doesnt have an array of "rainbow fountains" does it?

Elizabeth
Radomir
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Reflecting pools

Post by Radomir »

Having spent many years of my youth in the DC area, I will hazard that I never saw any such fountains in the reflecting pools. I had assumed that was their whole point is that they were still-as-glass (unless the wind was blowing) in order to reflect the monuments.

R.
Elizabeth Helen Drake
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just the person

Post by Elizabeth Helen Drake »

Radomir,

You are just the person then to help us out! I agree with you about the rainbow fountain effect in the reflecting pool. But are there other fountains where this might be?

Near some of the Federal buildings downtown? I just keep getting this feeling that if I panned to the right or the left I would see some monument or statue or something that would identify this area and this is FRUSTRATING.

We could of course be wrong about the city. Anybody else have any ideas?

Boy, talk about a needle in a haystack ..... though Paul and I might be on a hot lead as to their identities, we are still puzzled as to the location! Sometimes things hide perfectly well when they are right in front of your faces.
Elizabeth
LongboardLOVELY
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Don't you wish...

Post by LongboardLOVELY »

Elizabeth,

Don't you wish you could walk up to the guy sitting on that park bench and get his point of view on the whole thing? :)

I remember seeing a similar architectural fountain in Honolulu, but I can't remember where it was. And of course, I had only been there once.

The CalTech pond/lake is too enclosed and shadowy to be this photograph.

And like Radomir said, the one in front of the Washington Monument doesn't have sprays.

Besides, you'd probably be seeing a shadow in the water if it was in DC.

The lawns in this photograph also are not as well manicured as they are in DC.

No idea, but I'll ponder further.

LBL
Any fool can make things bigger, more complex, and more violent. It takes a touch of genius - and a lot of courage - to move in the opposite direction. ~ Albert Einstein
greggvizza
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Location

Post by greggvizza »

The trees don’t look sub tropical. They do look eastern USA, but I am not familiar with tree types in other parts of the world. I know that Germany’s terrain looks almost identical to Pennsylvania’s in some places.

Wherever it is, it’s a low traffic area; look at all the grass growing up through the pavement. Low traffic and poor landscaping maintenance, but with a rainbow fountain.

Fountains were very popular in the 50’s. You wouldn’t know it by looking around today. They have mostly all been removed. I wouldn’t count on recognizing that location live in 2007. It would more than likely have to be found in old photos.

GV
Elizabeth Helen Drake
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thinking too

Post by Elizabeth Helen Drake »

Thats what I was thinking too Gregg. We are not going to be able to recognize this scene by comparing it to modern day Washington (or wherever it happens to be) .... Thats why I am so frustrated not to have more photos on that same role or from that same camera ... we don't have more .... do we Paul? I know that the consensus was that it was the same general time as his time in Hawaii because of corresponding pictures of him leaving his family on the Island ..... He has done a bit of traveling on the same role of film, I think.

Which means that the date is indeed the late forties/ or 1950 itself.

How old would you figure the fellows standing with him might be? Dr. Brown was forty years old when his daughter was born in 1945 .... so here he is between forty two and forty five. Compare him to the others. Is it just me or do you think that they would be younger? The white shoes on the fellow in the middle just tickle me to death. I can see him doing a wild jitterbug somewhere ...... and the darker one is trying to be serious but I have a feeling he is young too .... just a guess. You know how adult some of those punk kids looked out of your senior class ? Put them in a suit and suddenly they matured years and years? Thats how the fellow on the right strikes me. Victoria is very astute in her observations and for some reason I think, she said he was "young and fit" and I tend to agree with that.

Regarding the unkempt grass through the concrete ... if it WAS Washington ... remember that there was alot going on in the world at the time. One war had ended, another begun so maybe at the time the manpower to take care of such things was limited? Or maybe it was meant? You know ... the "natural look?

I have to thank all of you though. I learned something really new. I never knew that they called them rainbow fountains until kevin brought it up .... amazing journey.

And Mr. Twigsnappers comments about the Mayflower Hotel again have reminded me, along with Greggs comments that when we look at all of this we really have to put our " 1950s" head on. Thanks everybody for your input ... past and in the future. Elizabeth
Paul S.
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Look Familiar?

Post by Paul S. »

kevin.b wrote:The type of fountains in the background are commonly called Rainbow fountains,
A "rainbow fountain," eh?
greggvizza wrote:Fountains were very popular in the 50’s. You wouldn’t know it by looking around today. They have mostly all been removed. I wouldn’t count on recognizing that location live in 2007. It would more than likely have to be found in old photos.
And old photo? Like this one?

Image

That's actually from an eBay listing:

http://cgi.ebay.com/Linen-View-Rainbow- ... dZViewItem

...in case anybody wants to bid on it.

The pictures both show fountains, grass, and pavement... could it be?

--PS
Paul Schatzkin
aka "The Perfesser"
"At some point we have to deal with the facts, not what we want to believe is true." -- Jack Bauer
Radomir
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nice job

Post by Radomir »

Great sleuthing there Paul. Wow. What a find.

I never saw anything like that when I lived in DC, but that doesn't mean it wasn't there in the 50s! I assume you googled "rainbow fountain?"

R.
Paul S.
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Re: nice job

Post by Paul S. »

Radomir wrote:Great sleuthing there Paul. Wow. What a find.

I assume you googled "rainbow fountain?"
Searched for "rainbow fountain washington dc" There was also an old Viewmaster 3D "reel" of photos that mentioned a rainbow fountain "embellishing mon. grounds" but I can't see the picture from the web page.

Does make you wonder sometimes if there was life before Google.

BTW, my wife also called me a "sleuth" today. Only she spelled it with an "o" in stead of "eu" Can't win for losing some days, ya know...??

--PS
Paul Schatzkin
aka "The Perfesser"
"At some point we have to deal with the facts, not what we want to believe is true." -- Jack Bauer
greggvizza
Senior Cadet
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Trees

Post by greggvizza »

Looks like the same tree types.

GV
flowperson
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Post by flowperson »

By Jove I think he's got it ! Looks like the pic was taken from an oblique angle, looking maybe southeasterly.

Even today not many big bldgs. there until you get to the old Smithsonian. Also I believe there's an old auto (20's-30's vintage) in the distance poking its hood between the two guys on the right. There is a drive along the south side of the mall. At least with a glass it looks like one.

Lots of benches around the pool also so the lounger in white fits...and the trees are compatible. Of course with photoshop you can do lots of creative stuff even with old prints, but not much chance of that here eh? Oh, and from the minimal shadows, it looks like the sun was in their face from their left front, which in the summer would put the sun moving towards the wnw. It all seems to fit.

flow.... :wink:
Dancing is better than marching
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