The Spiritual Implications of Time Travel, Etc.

A place to engage extended discussions of things that come up on the ttbrown.com website. Anything goes here, as long as it's somehow pertinent to the subject(s) at hand.
Chris Knight
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Post by Chris Knight »

Mikado,

You are right, and as I said, many injustices have ocurred under the flag of Christianity. However, Christianity is but one faith, and no one has faith in nothing. We all believe in something. I've noticed a few calls for opinions from other religions or beliefs here on the spirituality of time travel, etc., but I haven't seen one solid answer yet.

You are also correct that it's difficult to stick out your neck for your beliefs when it comes down to the wire. I'm just one person, and whether as a scientist, I, or others like me, might be a front man is a matter of conjecture. Just as important are the many other people in the world whose opinions and beliefs will affect how they react to such an encounter.

So I ask you, Grinder, Mark, Trickfox, Elizabeth, Victoria, and all of the others here, to answer similar questions Victoria asked me:

1) "Lets just say that another intelligence presented itself to you. How would you regard it, falling back on your beliefs? If it does not appear to you as being "human," how would that affect your viewpoint?

2) How quickly would others with similar beliefs regard these outsiders as "evil" or "good," or "beneficial" or "detrimental?"

3) And what would your responsibilities be in this new relationship to this new "creature" ?

4) Some branches of science teach that mankind has fought tooth and nail through the evolutionary process to reach the top of the evolutionary tree, and that everything else is below him. If this "creature" happened to appear to be "beneath us" on the evolutionary tree, would we then automatically be its master? Would it be "sub-human?"

5) If this is the same process that works throughout the universe, does this mean that we should automatically fight this new threat to our evolutionary station, since they would have gone through the same fight to get where they are ? Or should you assume they have transcended that process?

I do have to disagree with your statement "There is no place for religion in science but there is for science in religion." Religion is any faith-based set of beliefs - even atheism is faith-based. Where your faith lies determines your interpretation of the universe and reality. In that context, I would say that science and religion are inseperable.

Andrew
Dr. Jordan
Space Cadet
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Farewell to Twigsnapper

Post by Dr. Jordan »

twigsnapper wrote: And I have been casting over what all you gracious people have said since this group of messages was posted. I encourage all of you to stop for a moment and look again at what was written here. Again the points apply. So I am reopening this section.

Dr. Jordan, are you still out there with us? A current comment?

twigsnapper
Yes. Still here. I am pleased to see the amount of discussion generated from this topic. It is good to "hear" peoples' philosophy and opinions. Firstly, I have read every chapter and am impressed with the amount of work Paul has put into this book. Second, I think your contributions, Mr. T have been timeless. I don't think I will be in Las Vegas this year, but I know a colleague will be and I will be able to learn everything vicariously. My only regret is that I will not be able to meet you, Mr. Twigsnapper.


Dr. J
LongboardLOVELY
Junior Birdman
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Saying Goodbye

Post by LongboardLOVELY »

Mr. Twigsnapper,
Are you saying goodbye to everyone because you are leaving us or are you just trying to tie up loose ends before the big event 10 days?
Oh, please don't leave just yet!

LongboardLOVELY
Last edited by LongboardLOVELY on Tue Oct 31, 2006 2:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Any fool can make things bigger, more complex, and more violent. It takes a touch of genius - and a lot of courage - to move in the opposite direction. ~ Albert Einstein
LongboardLOVELY
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Horses, dogs, and agendas

Post by LongboardLOVELY »

First, Mikado, let me clarify what you said about Tibetans. I learned from study years ago (that may have become muddled since) that they actually believed in a gradient for those souls
Mikado14 wrote:
Tibetans believe that there are 5 mammals that possess an individual soul. Two of them are dogs and horses.

I would take a dog or a horse as a companion anyday to converse with,,have had both and have done it.

That was not my two cents, that was a whole buck!

Mikado
Actually, they had an order of belief: First snake, then elephant, then horse, then dog, then something that I can't remember.

Mikado14 wrote:Mr. Twigsnapper,

Look what you hath done. We are now ankle deep into christianity.

Christianity helped to prolong the Dark Ages.
Christianity imprisoned people like Galilei Galileo for attempting to educate.
Christianity was the basis of many a Holy War, and not just the Crusades
Christianity was the foundation for the Inquisition
Christianity had a finger in the demise of the Aztecs
Christianity, along with manifest destiny, helped to suppress the Amerinds.
Christianity created many a holy war in Africa.
Christianity...........and the list goes on.

Does Christianity have a place in science?

There are so many Christians, but would any of them or could any of them truly answer that they would face the lions in the arena than to give up their faith? I would bet that there would be a stampede and it would be for the exits.

There is no place for religion in science but there is for science in religion.

Before this thread goes to far, I would recommend that a little soul searching be done.

If you had a new technology that could help man or hurt man and someone had a gun to your child's head, would you use it to hurt man?

Mikado
Correction: Mr. Twigsnapper hath done nothing of the sort! I think it was Dr. Jordan that has wrought this discussion.

That is interesting that you mention a whole host of bad things that has happened in the name of Christianity but not one thing bad that has happened in the name of Islam. Have we already forgotten 9/11?
Let me give you a quote from a great Christian lady who has since passed away from this earth. This is the core of what I believe. Not everything that I believe, but the core:

"There is only one God and He is God to all; therefore it is important that everyone is seen as equal before God. I’ve always said we should help a Hindu become a better Hindu, a Muslim become a better Muslim, a Catholic become a better Catholic. We believe our work should be our example to people. We have among us 475 souls - 30 families are Catholics and the rest are all Hindus, Muslims, Sikhs—all different religions. But they all come to our prayers."

AND

Make us worthy, Lord, to serve those people throughout the world who live and die in poverty and hunger. Give them through our hands, this day, their daily bread, and by our understanding love, give them peace and joy.
I heard the call to give up all and follow Christ into the slums to serve Him among the poorest of the poor. It was an order.
I was to leave the convent and help the poor while living among them.

...

I pray that you will understand the words of Jesus, “Love one another as I have loved you.â€
Any fool can make things bigger, more complex, and more violent. It takes a touch of genius - and a lot of courage - to move in the opposite direction. ~ Albert Einstein
Elizabeth Helen Drake
Sr. Research Asst.
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patience

Post by Elizabeth Helen Drake »

Andrew,

You said in a recent response " I've noticed a few calls for opinions from other religions or beliefs here on the spirituality of time travel, but I haven't seen one solid answer yet."

My comment Andrew is ..... Patience, Patience. Thats not exactly how this process works, have you noticed? For Dr. Brown I believe it was the same. You can ask all you want but the answers sometimes elude you altogether. You want people to come up with solid answers to your questions? Be patient. They will all come up with what they are inspired to "come up with"....... when they are ready. Remember, right now you are right...... right now we are just talking ........ and its worth going down those "what if" paths. Elizabeth
Paul S.
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Re: patience

Post by Paul S. »

Elizabeth Helen Drake wrote: You can ask all you want but the answers sometimes elude you altogether.
Now, THERE's a statement I can relate to! :wink:

Patience? What a concept!

--PS
Paul Schatzkin
aka "The Perfesser"
"At some point we have to deal with the facts, not what we want to believe is true." -- Jack Bauer
Chris Knight
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Post by Chris Knight »

Hmm, learn patience, eh? How long will that take :wink:

I wanted to ask that if there was anyone out there who was personally associated with Beau if they could comment on what they knew about him (aside from Paul). He seems to have been a very colorful, intelligent, and well-travelled fellow. Sort of a larger-than-life person. I would think that someone like that would have had a wide circle of acquaintances.

Andrew
Last edited by Chris Knight on Tue Oct 31, 2006 4:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Victoria Steele
Mysterious Redhead
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facing fears

Post by Victoria Steele »

Hello everybody. LOOK! IT LIVES! and its not even Thursday! Hello Paul!

I think what we are dealing with here folks is facing our own FEAR.

You can call it whatever you want, call the process whatever you want but at the bottom of it is our thinking fear of the unknown. Religions all over the world basically are attempts to calm those fears by trying to explain things to us.

And I will admit. I used to be a fearful person. My Grandmother used to say its because I "knew too much". (I expect it was because I also had a vivid imagination and an active mind.

In her life things were straightforward and tied to the land. You lived or died according to the whim of nature or God. A good calf broke its ankle, it was gone. A child sickened and died? God must have wanted it in Heaven. We didn't spend a whole lot of time talking about what God was to her or what Heaven was. Things were just what they were.

This study of "conciousness" interests me because without levels of that you do not develop any concepts at all , of God, or science or anything. It must have something to do with our perceptions of things too, and thats why I guess now it is becoming important for people to actually look at the things that form their perceptions of the things around them.

Is that what we are talking about here Elizabeth and Mikado, Andrew and LindaB? Are we actually talking about religion or are we discussing our perceptions? Victoria
Mikado14
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Re: Horses, dogs, and agendas

Post by Mikado14 »

LongboardLOVELY wrote:Actually, they had an order of belief: First snake, then elephant, then horse, then dog, then something that I can't remember.
Yes and no, I don't recall a snake. My point that I had mentioned that aspect was merely in reference to the post quoted. It was not meant to be the prelude for a discussion into my beliefs for I will shy away within this forum. That aspect will have no bearing on the release of any new technology and I believe you are referring to Hinduism.
LongboardLOVELY wrote: Correction: Mr. Twigsnapper hath done nothing of the sort! I think it was Dr. Jordan that has wrought this discussion.
We are both correct. It was a dead thread and Mr. Twigsnapper brought it to life. I believe he even stated that, that was my meaning. Don't be so quick at the trigger.
LongboardLOVELY wrote: That is interesting that you mention a whole host of bad things that has happened in the name of Christianity but not one thing bad that has happened in the name of Islam. Have we already forgotten 9/11?
Let me give you a quote from a great Christian lady who has since passed away from this earth. This is the core of what I believe. Not everything that I believe, but the core:

"There is only one God and He is God to all; therefore it is important that everyone is seen as equal before God. I’ve always said we should help a Hindu become a better Hindu, a Muslim become a better Muslim, a Catholic become a better Catholic. We believe our work should be our example to people. We have among us 475 souls - 30 families are Catholics and the rest are all Hindus, Muslims, Sikhs—all different religions. But they all come to our prayers."

AND

Make us worthy, Lord, to serve those people throughout the world who live and die in poverty and hunger. Give them through our hands, this day, their daily bread, and by our understanding love, give them peace and joy.
I heard the call to give up all and follow Christ into the slums to serve Him among the poorest of the poor. It was an order.
I was to leave the convent and help the poor while living among them.

...

I pray that you will understand the words of Jesus, “Love one another as I have loved you.â€
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy
Mark Culpepper
The Dean
Posts: 655
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teaching and perceptions

Post by Mark Culpepper »

Are there any other teachers out there who can join in on this discussion? I ask that because I think teachers perhaps have a very different idea of "perceptions" than most. We have to deal with "perceptions" every day.

My two cents worth. I notice at least two situations. When you are trying to "introduce new material" the challenge is to present it clearly and then make sure the student has enough quality study time to "wrap his mind around the material" Thats hard work but its simply that. WORK.

The other situation is "resetting" previous concepts that might have been learned incorrectly, or revamping material that has been corrected with the advance of knowledge. That is tougher than setting new material in a fresh mind because there is so much resistance normally . Humans, once they learn something, are slow to replace it because the old knowledge is like an old comfortable friend.

And what students do many times is slam that door shut. Holding old dear concepts hostage. Once they give up on that and open the door there is no turning back to the old material. In a "blink of an eye" their whole world changes by whatever notch that new information represents.

I think that is what this entire exercise is REALLY about. We are all talking about this religion or that religion because thats the familiar ground we don't want to give up. Time, I think, to put those faded arguments aside and look at what we need to see ..... and that is "How we percieve things"

Mark C.
Elizabeth Helen Drake
Sr. Research Asst.
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old locker room discussions

Post by Elizabeth Helen Drake »

Was it Bama who recently said that we should go beyond the old "locker room" discussions from the sixties? I sort of feel like thats what we are dealing with here. We are fast approaching a whole new situation and we are looking at it through the eyes of people in the fifties and sixties .... and as far as religions go .... perhaps centuries. Time to look at things differently.

Heres a slightly twisted thought.

I know that I thought the post (about mankind beating on a door, wanting it to open and then asking, are we ready. why don't THEY let us in?) was appropriate for the discussion. But now I realize that there might be a twist in that scene. What if the "door" isn't set up by some outside force which has kept us separated from the truth? What if the "door" is ourselves and maybe WE are the ones that have put it there in the first place and we are knocking from the inside, trying to get OUT.

Is that other intelligence just watching the activity asking themselves. "You think they will ever figure it out?" Elizabeth
Trickfox
The Magician
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Man in the mirror (the true implications of time travel)

Post by Trickfox »

  • I'm Gonna Make A Change,
    For Once In My Life
    It's Gonna Feel Real Good,
    Gonna Make A Difference
    Gonna Make It Right . . .

    As I, Turn Up The Collar On My
    Favourite Winter Coat
    This Wind Is Blowin' My Mind
    I See The Kids In The Street,
    With Not Enough To Eat
    Who Am I, To Be Blind?
    Pretending Not To See
    Their Needs
    A Summer's Disregard,
    A Broken Bottle Top
    And A One Man's Soul
    They Follow Each Other On
    The Wind Ya' Know
    'Cause They Got Nowhere
    To Go
    That's Why I Want You To
    Know

    I'm Starting With The Man In
    The Mirror
    I'm Asking Him To Change
    His Ways
    And No Message Could Have
    Been Any Clearer
    If You Wanna Make The World
    A Better Place
    Take A Look At Yourself, And
    Then Make A Change
a song by Michael Jackson (or his song writer)

The trickfox says: The only spiritual implications of time travel are the changes YOU MAKE about yourself. Religion matters not. Good and evil matters not. Judgement matters not. That's because there is nothing you can do about your fellow man's faith. There is only what you can demonstrate by example about your own.

Now.......... can I please have my own copy of the "vega curve calculator" now.....?
Trickfox
Last edited by Trickfox on Tue Oct 31, 2006 5:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
The psychopropulsier (as pointed out in the book The Good-bye man by Linda Brown and Jan Lofton) is a Quantum entanglement project under development using Quantum Junctions. Join us at http://www.Peeteelab.com
Elizabeth Helen Drake
Sr. Research Asst.
Posts: 1742
Joined: Fri Sep 23, 2005 6:11 am

man in the mirror

Post by Elizabeth Helen Drake »

Paul,

Thanks to Trickfox, do you see now what Morgan meant? Elizabeth
Victoria Steele
Mysterious Redhead
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Where your faith lies

Post by Victoria Steele »

Just restating what you said Andrew because I think this is the center of our discussion right here. (even though the idea of shopping right now and leaving this sort of heavy discussion behind .... Boyoboyo am I tempted cause I am one of the best shoppers! ..... still, I am compelled to stay on this subject for awhile)

Andrew. Its a great statement! You said "Where your faith lies determines your interpretation of the universe and reality."

And thats what we are talking about here isn't it? What is REALITY actually? Is it something different than we have always believed? Like Mark said, once you have a thought in your head as to the way things are its REALLY difficult to accept something different ... or for that matter, to EVEN SEE something different.

I wish that we could be a fly on a wall in the days where Dr. Brown and his friend Beau Kitselman had long discussions about the nature of reality. What would THEY have said. I wonder? Victoria
Elizabeth Helen Drake
Sr. Research Asst.
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ancient religion

Post by Elizabeth Helen Drake »

I guess, since it is All Hallows Eve that maybe the Wiccan religion should be mentioned. I will not expect many to understand or even try to understand what a practicing witch might face in todays world.

Talk about disinformation campaigns! Ever since the dawn of Christianity witches have been painted as ugly, evil, in consort with the devil, the cause of plagues and illnesses, and thats just for starts. They were once powerful oracles in ancient greece, seers in other countries but in this they are relegated to Salem, or what may be worse, the costume section of the local WalMart.

Historically harboring and promoting a strong connection to the natural world in this dimension and others, a concept of the flexibility of time, the thought that the postive force can be asked to come to your assistance, the ability to work alone and without trappings, a witch could practice magic naked in a desert.

Just some unusual thoughts on Halloween Eve.

Elizabeth
Locked