PEOPLE & PLACES & DATES

Here is where we focus on separating the facts from the fiction, identifying what we KNOW from what what we DON'T KNOW about the life and work of Townsend Brown

Re: PEOPLE & PLACES & DATES

Postby Mikado14 » Mon Aug 11, 2008 11:42 pm

htmagic wrote:Paul,

The tunnel diode would be attached to an antenna. Could you share the source of your definitive information on this statement? Now was the antenna on top of the periscope or embedded in the glass? I got the impression that it was embedded in the lens itself. Can someone clarify this? You have an either/or statement there, how can you be sure that it is so?

If it was embedded in the lens, was it actually an antenna? Or did it use lasers or light for communication? I thought it was electromagnetic frequencies it was transmitting. But if it was on the periscope, it almost sounds optical in nature. If it were electromagnetic where does the gravitic portion come in?



Dr. Brown wrote:
htmagic wrote: Considering the electrogravitic communications Dr. Brown outlines in Notebook #1 is his photoisotope cells, it may be optical in nature. Dr. Brown says:
Hence, if an antenna (of an electro-gravitic radio transmitter) is electrically or photo-isotopically modulated, it will tend to vibrate mechanically in the alignment of its absolute motion


The problem with Laser communications is that they are essentially "line of sight" communications. Remember that the quote from the notebook that you used says "electrically OR Photo-isotopically modulated". The essential and key part you missed.

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Ionospheric Energy Research, NRL Review

Postby htmagic » Tue Aug 12, 2008 1:39 am

I just ran across this which I thought was interesting.
Thanks, Kevin, for the link you sent because this was in one of the pages.

http://home.netcom.com/~sbyers11/RFenergy_IonoB.htm

The following is a review of Ionospheric energy research published on the U.S. NRL url http://server5550.itd.nrl.navy.mil/proj ... index.html about their HAARP and SEE projects. Statements of technical interest have been extracted for use here . The complete pages as published with all the general, technical and image material, may be still available at the above URL. The indented paragraphs below are quoted from the NRL site. The interspersed non-indented paragraphs are comments and content by this author. We are indebted to the scientists at NRL for providing this valuable information and the above graph for the public's use.

Quote: Ionospheric Research in Stimulated Electromagnetic Emission (SEE) * NRL

One of the current interest areas in ionospheric research is the production of Stimulated Electromagnetic Emission (SEE) through ionospheric heating. The SEE phenomenon has been observed at various ionospheric modification facilities around the world and has provoked numerous theories concerning its underlying physical mechanism. Although seen at all geomagnetic latitudes, the SEE process appears to be more readily produced in non-aurora regions.
Unquote.

It may be that the SEE process is most readily produced when the Sun is overhead. Any experiments planned for producing a first RF stable resonance should take this possibility into consideration. The proper choice of latitude and season of year may greatly aid the establishment of a first resonance. The lack of the SEE phenomenon in the aurora (pole) regions, mentioned by US NRL above, gives some support to this view.

Quote: A relatively recent technique for studying the dynamics of the ionosphere involves the use of ground-based, high-power, high-frequency, electromagnetic radiation to perturb the ionospheric medium (e.g. HAARP).

<<<<PLEASE NOTE THIS STATEMENT by NRL >>>>>>

The interaction between the high power "pump" wave and the ionospheric plasma results in a complicated transfer of energy from the pump to natural oscillating modes of the medium, which in turn convert a "small fraction" of that energy to electromagnetic waves (stimulated electromagnetic emission or SEE) that is detectable at ground level.

SEE can be broadly subdivided into two groups, up-shifted and down-shifted relative to the pump frequency, that exhibit rather different spectral characteristics.
Unquote.

Only charts of the up-shifted have been found at the NRL site. If anyone is able to provide links to similar charts for the down-shifted side band data it will be interesting and appreciated.

<SNIP>

Many applications and configurations of the resonance system are conceivable. Various configurations of reflectors should allow operation in orbit or in the air and on the land or sea. A satellite with a gravity gradient stabilized tether antenna may be able to obtain useful electrical energy with this concept. Huh? What is this gravity stabilized tether antenna? With a large antenna farm a local aurora may be possible. Ionospheric heating has been reported above large antenna farms for radio stations. The 50 kilowatts as reported by Moray is sufficient to power a small aircraft with no requirements to land for fuel, and of course no fuel load to carry.

There's more but this is the gist of it. There is another link that is of interest like this:

Image
And the site is at: http://www.physics.irfu.se/SEE/

And the text that I thought most interesting as:
http://www.physics.irfu.se/SEE/ wrote:
At the end of the seventies, huge high power HF transmitting facilities were built, transmitting electromagnetic waves with powers high enough to induce turbulence in the ionosphere strong enough to be separated from the natural background radio noise. Through radar probing, the existence of enhanced plasma waves was soon discovered, at frequencies offset from the radar frequencies. In the Langmuir waves the electron density is raised at intervals of a wavelength and those high density areas reflect the radar beam. Thus, analogously to a crystal lattice, the wavelength of the Langmuir wave can be inferred through positive interference of reflected beams. This is known as the Bragg phenomenon.

Through radar probing one could also see that in the region into which the radio wave was pumped, a turbulence, reflecting radar beams as turbulent air reflects light, was induced. That is, not only a general increase in temperature as one had expected. And this is where our story begins.


OK, this is HAARP (High Frequency Active Auroral Research Program) which was discussed elsewhere in this forum. I thought that HAARP was an Air Force, not a NRL project. And now I might stretch this timeline some, HAARP was RF signals in the ionosphere.

Radar beams to the ionosphere "sounds" like work that Dr. Brown did when he was working with radar. So the forerunner of HAARP was Dr. Brown's work? His original work with radar morphed into HAARP years later? It's a stretch but it fits. HAARP probably had a forerunner project. And that project may have had Dr. Brown's fingerprints on it. His early work with radar and communications, OTH, and the early transmitter sites he was at could all have ties as the forerunner to HAARP. And since this was 1981 was SEE was discovered, Dr. Brown was still alive and could even have been (remotely) involved.

Now the sketch showing land based antennas should include signals from a submarine as well. Now the signals from the spiral antenna in the periscope connected to the tunnel diode can beam to the satellites overhead. So was the tunnel diode a detector or part of the transmitter or was it both?

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Re: PEOPLE & PLACES & DATES

Postby Rose » Tue Aug 12, 2008 2:12 am

i'm staying away from the technical discussions, you genii have at it.

But, going back to the AVRO Shackleton. Atlhough it is the first plane (1949) publicly associated with ASW program, the predecessor of today's C3i (Command, Control, Communications, Intelligence) systems, do you think there is the slightest possiblity that the early sub radar bounce was to some AVRO platform, other than a plane?


Remember they had Miethe...

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Re: Ionospheric Energy Research, NRL Review

Postby Mikado14 » Tue Aug 12, 2008 11:19 am

htmagic wrote: I Many applications and configurations of the resonance system are conceivable. Various configurations of reflectors should allow operation in orbit or in the air and on the land or sea. A satellite with a gravity gradient stabilized tether antenna may be able to obtain useful electrical energy with this concept. Huh? What is this gravity stabilized tether antenna? With a large antenna farm a local aurora may be possible. Ionospheric heating has been reported above large antenna farms for radio stations. The 50 kilowatts as reported by Moray is sufficient to power a small aircraft with no requirements to land for fuel, and of course no fuel load to carry.


You really don't understand what the "gravity stabilized" means, do you? You see the word "gravity" and jump.

htmagic wrote:At the end of the seventies, huge high power HF transmitting facilities were built, transmitting electromagnetic waves with powers high enough to induce turbulence in the ionosphere strong enough to be separated from the natural background radio noise. Through radar probing, the existence of enhanced plasma waves was soon discovered, at frequencies offset from the radar frequencies. In the Langmuir waves the electron density is raised at intervals of a wavelength and those high density areas reflect the radar beam. Thus, analogously to a crystal lattice, the wavelength of the Langmuir wave can be inferred through positive interference of reflected beams. This is known as the Bragg phenomenon.

Through radar probing one could also see that in the region into which the radio wave was pumped, a turbulence, reflecting radar beams as turbulent air reflects light, was induced. That is, not only a general increase in temperature as one had expected. And this is where our story begins.


Do you really understand this or are you pretending?

htmagic wrote:OK, this is HAARP (High Frequency Active Auroral Research Program) which was discussed elsewhere in this forum. I thought that HAARP was an Air Force, not a NRL project. And now I might stretch this timeline some, HAARP was RF signals in the ionosphere.

Radar beams to the ionosphere "sounds" like work that Dr. Brown did when he was working with radar. So the forerunner of HAARP was Dr. Brown's work? His original work with radar morphed into HAARP years later? It's a stretch but it fits. HAARP probably had a forerunner project. And that project may have had Dr. Brown's fingerprints on it. His early work with radar and communications, OTH, and the early transmitter sites he was at could all have ties as the forerunner to HAARP. And since this was 1981 was SEE was discovered, Dr. Brown was still alive and could even have been (remotely) involved.



The frequencies were different. HAARP is HF. I thought you said you were a "ham"?

htmagic wrote:Now the sketch showing land based antennas should include signals from a submarine as well[/b]. Now the signals from the spiral antenna in the periscope connected to the tunnel diode can beam to the satellites overhead.


You make me feel REAL stupid or thick at times. I just don't see how you come to your conclusions. I repeatedly ask and you obfuscate into multiple directions or you just have me outgunned with information that I don't have.

Just in case your not aware but RF heating occurs in your microwave and has nothing to do with gravity, at least up until today .

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Re: PEOPLE & PLACES & DATES

Postby Linda Brown » Tue Aug 12, 2008 1:08 pm

I agree Rose

"i'm staying away from the technical discussions, you genii have at it."

And they are GOOD at this too, which I would not be.

But I would love to sit down with you someday and talk about this platform deal.

My garden actually turned out to be nonexistant. Tried as hard as I could, really ( well.... not THAT hard) but never actually got started before I got drawn off in other situations. So my vacations from the stress of it all have been simply having thoughts of taking a little pup and going on an extended road trip.... turns out that it might be a quicker solution to stress management for me than watching my squash grow.

Interesting stuff girl. Shackleton? Nibble, nibble. Linda
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Huh?

Postby Paul S. » Tue Aug 12, 2008 4:26 pm

What exactly is "AVRO Shackleton" ?

Wasn't he the guy who got trapped in the Antarctic a hundred years ago ?

--PS
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Re: PEOPLE & PLACES & DATES

Postby kevin.b » Tue Aug 12, 2008 5:08 pm

fibonacci is king
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The Father of Plasma

Postby htmagic » Wed Aug 13, 2008 1:50 pm

Folks,

I have been thinking about the special "tunnel diode" that Thomas Townsend Brown invented. If I was a vacuum tube diode, then it was a plasma diode that can handle large amounts of power. If it is a crystal diode, then that is another story.

Dr. Brown dealt with electrostatics at high voltages and these can generate plasmas. Now the father of plasma and the first to coin that term was Irving Langmuir (1881-1957). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irving_Langmuir
Wikipedia wrote:As he continued to study filaments in vacuum and different gas environments, he began to study the emission of charged particles from hot filaments (thermionic emission). He was one of the first scientists to work with plasmas and was the first to call these ionized gases by that name, because they reminded him of blood plasma.


Now ball lightning and vacuum tubes seems to be a parallel path for Dr. Brown as well. I wonder if the two of them met at one time? Even though Langmuir is older and later dismissed ESP and flying saucers as examples of pathological science, Langmuir was a leader in his field and also worked on improving naval sonar for submarine detection. Langmuir also worked at General Electric. And so did Dr. Brown from Paul's book:
When Dr. Brown headed for Umatilla he actually was working for a section of General Electric, developing that special diode program for the Navy. You are not going to find much written about that. Suffice it to say that as far as the world was concerned…well, they just don't have any idea what he was really doing.


So since Langmuir was the father of plasma, I wonder if he worked on the tunnel diode with Dr. Brown?

Oh, and I have an edge of the "missing years", actually 1959 where Paul states:
The experiments in vacuum were conducted at Soc. Nat. Construc, Aeronaut, in Paris in 1955-56, in the Bahnson Laboratories, Winston Salem, North Carolina in 1957-58, and the General Electric Space Center at King of Prussia, Penna, in
1959. Laboratory notes were made, but these notes were never published and are not available to me now.


Now if we could get hold of those notebooks at General Electric...

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Re: PEOPLE & PLACES & DATES

Postby kevin.b » Wed Aug 13, 2008 2:09 pm

htmagic wrote,
"If I was a vacuum tube diode"
I reckon to catch a fish , you must think as a fish, but a vacuum tube diode?
Kevin, trying to think of a joke about what one vacuum tube diode said to another,
You look out of breath?
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Re: PEOPLE & PLACES & DATES

Postby htmagic » Wed Aug 13, 2008 8:29 pm

kevin.b wrote:htmagic wrote,
"If I was a vacuum tube diode"
I reckon to catch a fish , you must think as a fish, but a vacuum tube diode?
Kevin, trying to think of a joke about what one vacuum tube diode said to another,
You look out of breath?

Kevin,

How about, "Why not join me for an electrifying experience!" Ha ha!

Seriously, the tunnel diode is key in one of the systems Paul mentions in his text. Paul says:
And it appears that the “tunnel diode” — which, according to Morgan, is what Townsend Brown went to Florida to develop after he returned from Europe in 1956 — was the critical component that made that “electromagnetic ear” equally effective just a few feet above the surface of the ocean — or from hundreds of miles out in space.


So I gather the tunnel diode was used as a detector as a diode is used in a radio receiver. I am not sure if it was used as part of a transmitter portion as well. I think there were speculations earlier when AM (and AM2) was on here about the tunnel diode being a part of the FTM but I suspect the tunnel diode was used in radar or communications.

Paul, is there anything else about this "special diode" that you haven't told us?

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You're Asking ME?

Postby Paul S. » Wed Aug 13, 2008 8:38 pm

htmagic wrote:Paul, is there anything else about this "special diode" that you haven't told us?


I suspect there is a great deal about this "special diode" that I haven't told you.

Unfortunately, nobody's told me any more about it than I've already relayed in the book or here.

And the impression I get is that they've told me just about all they're at liberty to divulge.

Beyond that... BTF outta me.

--PS
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Re: PEOPLE & PLACES & DATES

Postby kevin.b » Wed Aug 13, 2008 9:07 pm

ht magic,
Perhaps each special diode could say anything it liked, because only it's exact self could hear what it said?
I am still hung up on GOLD.
I look backwards in time a lot, and GOLD is always evident, it has SPECIAL properties, along with platinum and silver( electrum)
Mr GOLDfinger.
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Re: You're Asking ME?

Postby Mikado14 » Wed Aug 13, 2008 9:19 pm

Paul S. wrote:
htmagic wrote:Paul, is there anything else about this "special diode" that you haven't told us?


I suspect there is a great deal about this "special diode" that I haven't told you.

Unfortunately, nobody's told me any more about it than I've already relayed in the book or here.

And the impression I get is that they've told me just about all they're at liberty to divulge.

Beyond that... BTF outta me.

--PS


Perhaps it is a matter of perception....again. Just maybe Morgan was implying the application and/or modification of a tunnel diode.

And it is about time, Mr. Magic, that somebody got the damn diode out of the FTM. Yes, communications.

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Re: You're Asking ME?

Postby htmagic » Wed Aug 13, 2008 11:21 pm

Mikado14 wrote:Perhaps it is a matter of perception....again. Just maybe Morgan was implying the application and/or modification of a tunnel diode.

And it is about time, Mr. Magic, that somebody got the damn diode out of the FTM. Yes, communications.

Mikado

Mikado,

You know I didn't link the tunnel diode with the FTM. But someone (who apparently is no longer on this forum) made the jump when the ball lightning subject came up. That was also when discussions were made about the tunnel diode and cesium.

Mikado, if you knew the tunnel diode was not part of the FTM, why didn't you say so earlier? :?
Is it a plasma diode (tube) or crystal (solid state)?

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Re: You're Asking ME?

Postby Mikado14 » Wed Aug 13, 2008 11:55 pm

htmagic wrote:Mikado,

You know I didn't link the tunnel diode with the FTM. But someone (who apparently is no longer on this forum) made the jump when the ball lightning subject came up. That was also when discussions were made about the tunnel diode and cesium.

Mikado, if you knew the tunnel diode was not part of the FTM, why didn't you say so earlier? :?
Is it a plasma diode (tube) or crystal (solid state)?

MagicBill


It wasn't for me to tell, I waited until someone else made the statement that it was for communication. It doesn't mean that it wouldn't or couldn't be used anywhere else, it just isn't instrumental to the FTM.

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